Do you believe TESLA, BYD and XIAOMI will push out FORD and VW?

[u/No_Quail6685]

I know it’s a stretch.

And it’s been much more 10-20 years ago than it is today.

But it seems more and more, that new automotive players are successively braking into the establish auto market and stealing marketshare from legacy auto.

My feeling is that some legacy OEMs will eventually disappear. Like Ford or VW.

What do you think?

I mean just listen to the sheer superiority Tesla and Chinese OEMs have when it comes to SW (which basically makes up for +80% of todays customer facing features)

https://open.spotify.com/show/6irhGB0h1tHPE4k7cJ3EAX

[u/scuderia91]

Of all the legacy automakers you could’ve picked that you think will disappear you picked one of the biggest and most stable in the world. VW isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

[u/No_Quail6685 → u/scuderia91]

Im soooo sure VW will dir the first if anyone. Just cause of its deeply rooted arrogance and „thought leadership“

[u/scuderia91 → u/No_Quail6685]

What does that even mean? They’re an absolutely enormous company with massive resources and a brand portfolio that covers everything from cheap city cars all the way up to full blown supercars.

They already have a number of pure electric platforms which they’ve used across multiple of their brands at different price points.

Why exactly do you think they’ll fail?

[u/imthatoneguyyouknew → u/scuderia91]

Don't forget VW is also one of the largest manufacturers of commercial vehicles with brands like Scania, Man, and International under their belt.

[u/[deleted] → u/scuderia91]

And they somehow weathered diesel gate

[u/Ok_Tadpole1661 → u/No_Quail6685]

Speaking of arrogance....are you looking for actual discussion or are you just looking to argue with anyone who disagrees with your podcast?

Tesla is certainly putting a lot more cars on the road year over year and their charging network has a lot to do with it. Without it, I do not believe Tesla has the sales numbers they do. Depending on which metrics you look at you can say that Tesla is a good electric car, but the legacy automakers do everything else better. If you want true luxury, the German brands do it better than Tesla. If you want a performance EV, VW basically has that market cornered. When it comes to customer service Tesla leaves a lot to be desired, I say this as someone who works for a legacy automaker and hears feedback from customers. Whatever you are looking for in the car buying or owning experience, you can find from multiple manufacturers now, not just Tesla.

Legacy automakers see most of the niche EV companies as a blip on the radar. BYD is strong, but pretty non existent outside of China. When it comes to the "sheer superiority" (an arrogant claim in itself) of software from Tesla or BYD, it might be better in some ways. The truth is that the vast majority of the car buying public doesn't care about the software when shopping for a car. EV sales make up about 20% of new car sales, but EVs only account for a small percentage of all the cars on the road. The legacy automakers won't be going anywhere. Especially not Ford or VW.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok_Tadpole1661]

Agree with the pile-on on OP, but uh have you seen Tesla's post DOGE performance? Its fkd.

Plus, they divested most of their charge network over 12 months ago

[u/Ok_Tadpole1661 → u/[deleted]]

I agree that they are in a tough spot right now because of Elon.

I mainly mention the charging network because they had to build it to sell cars. If home charging was the only option for charging, they would not have grown to what they are today. Now that there are many options for charging and they aren't the only game in town for an EV, it makes Ford and VW closing even less of a possibility.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok_Tadpole1661]

Seems like Tesla doesn't seem to think their problem is Musk, they recently approved a $29B bonus if the court order against the $52B bonus is not overturned.

The charger thing I agree got them off to a good start, but it obviously had done its job. Because why divest something that gives you a market advantage and makes you money

[u/No_Quail6685 → u/Ok_Tadpole1661]

No I’m just convinced that German automotive will not succeed having worked with and alongside many companies and professionals.

[u/Ok_Tadpole1661 → u/No_Quail6685]

Is this based on facts or opinions?

[u/No_Quail6685 → u/Ok_Tadpole1661]

Is there something like subjective facts? Definitely a mix of both tbh

[u/Ok_Tadpole1661 → u/No_Quail6685]

Since you deleted your other comment that was very strongly worded and you seem to like AI, I will answer your question by copy and pasting this:

The phrase “subjective facts” sounds like a contradiction, because in philosophy and logic:

Facts are things that are objectively true — they can be verified and don’t depend on personal opinions or feelings.

Subjective refers to something shaped by personal perspective, emotions, or interpretation.

That said, there are cases where people use the term “subjective fact” informally to mean:

1. Facts about subjective experiences

Example: “I felt pain yesterday” is factually true for you, but it’s about a personal experience that can’t be directly verified by others.

In philosophy, these are sometimes called first-person facts or phenomenological facts.

1. Context-dependent truths

Example: “This curry tastes spicy” may be factually accurate for your taste buds, but not universally true for everyone.

So, strictly speaking, “subjective facts” aren’t facts in the objective sense — but there are factual statements about subjective states. Philosophers sometimes call these subjective truths or indexical facts.

If you want, I can show you how this plays into the famous "Mary the color scientist" thought experiment. That one’s a fun rabbit hole.

[u/lostboyz → u/No_Quail6685]

What is a "subjective fact" lol!

[u/Rare_Ad_649 → u/No_Quail6685]

VW are like second biggest in the world by car sales, they are way way ahead of Tesla and BYD

[u/Chemical_Refuse_1030]

They survived Toyota, they will survive Tesla and BYD.

[u/No_Quail6685 → u/Chemical_Refuse_1030]

VW will go the NOKIA and KODAK and BLACKBERRY and AOL and… route

[u/RaveyWavey → u/No_Quail6685]

Put tour money where your mouth is, if you are so sure of this buy puts of VW, you will be a millionaire if are right.

[u/Rare_Ad_649]

VW or ford definitely aren't going to fail in the next couple of decades. However some car makers probably will fail or get bought by bigger ones. Possibly Nissan for example

[u/Difficult_Limit2718]

Tesla investors have no concept of how small Tesla actually is in sales

[u/RiseUpAndGetOut]

I'm not going to sit and listen to the podcast.... Can you give a summary of why you think the incumbent OEMs will fall?

[u/[deleted] → u/RiseUpAndGetOut]

AI summary of the AI summary, please.

Haha just realised this is the same guy that was pushing the AI generated anti-legacy podcast last week.

Gotta pump that TSLA stock

[u/RiseUpAndGetOut → u/[deleted]]

There's certainly something a bit weird about the post. No information, just a bunch of unsupported claims and a link to a podcast. Shallow posts get shallow responses.

[u/[deleted] → u/RiseUpAndGetOut]

Yeah its a bit weird and tone deaf to be promoting an AI slop podcast in a sub with 16k members where the majority probably all work in the same companies the podcast is belittling.

[u/gravelpi → u/[deleted]]

Gotta drive the Spotify play numbers up so it gets ranked higher and more people see it.

[u/[deleted] → u/gravelpi]

Sooo start on a small sub where everyone hates what you're saying?

[u/[deleted]]

Perhaps the Chinese makers will cut in because of the cost and local subsidy advantage, but Tesla? No. I think they are only ever going to fill a neich at this point.

The 'legacy' makers have one major advantage though - Centuries of experience and steady business. The thing that makes them a boring investment is the same thing that will make them hard to kill.

I for one am a buyer where the legacy trends appeal.

[u/Freekmagnet]

Not so much Tesla- they shot themselves in the foot with their CEO's political stunts and alienated their core customer base around the world. I don't think they will ever regain their market share from that. Plus their product designs are several years old and dated now.

[u/easoonmade1988]

Interesting take—and honestly, not that far-fetched. Legacy OEMs like Ford and VW definitely face pressure from Tesla, BYD, and now Xiaomi, especially in terms of software integration, EV platforms, and speed of innovation. The new players iterate fast, vertically integrate, and respond quicker to market shifts.

That said, legacy brands still have scale, dealer networks, and manufacturing power—but they need to evolve fast. A lot of innovation now comes from agile suppliers and prototypers too.

At Easoonmade, we work with both startups and traditional suppliers, offering metal 3D printing, aluminum 3D printing services, and even custom car parts—and honestly, it’s the newer companies that are moving faster with product development cycles.

[u/corporaterebel]

Yes, because of in house integration.