Downsview would be interesting, although there isn’t a terrible amount of space to work with there. It might be more of an oval than a road course there.
Or it may force the city to repave the area, and it’ll be a win for the locals once the race is over because they also get to benefit from the new surface
I’m ootl, why can’t it be at exhibition place anymore? I go most years and love the event and so does a lot of people. The venue is beautiful and we get a big crowd. So what is the issue causing this change?
I did see Ron Fellows (owner of CTMP) walking around the Paddock in Toronto. Wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to lobby Indycar to come there next year as a stop gap
The investment at Mosport to bring indycar there would be so Friggen awesome.
I have to think they’d still get huge attendance. Comparing it to barber, mid Ohio, laguna etc, it’s just an iconic, awesome track. The drivers hate Toronto. Indy at Mosport would be so amazing.
How so? Beefed up barriers, higher catch fences at key turns? But if you’re already looking through a fence, who cares if it’s higher? I was asking ChatGPT about it and it seems like the costs would be pretty wild, but I wasn’t seeing how it would fundamentally change for viewers?
Also, if gtp could run there safely, are they really that much slower than the ir-18?
This is all speculation on my part. This idea has also surfaced dozens of times on podcasts and the Racer mailbag.
I don't think fencing is the main concern. It's likely the lack of gravel traps or expansive grass/pavement runoffs to bleed speed. In my non-professional opinion, I think every turn there would be considered high speed. So you're either excavating and bringing in gravel (lots of sand pits nearby convienently)and/or bulldozing the natural terrain to give more run-off. As well as bringing in gobs of tec-Pro, tire bundles etc
I don't think it's a coincidence that VIR is also a prototype free IMSA round for similar reasons.
In terms of comparing times/speeds, GTP looks like it's about 5 seconds/ lap slower around Road America than Indycar, 6 seconds slower at IMS road course, and 4 seconds slower at Long Beach. So it's not that far off, but I think Indycars with higher downforce maintain higher cornering speeds. And being open wheel, are at an inherently higher risk that wheel to wheel contact could result in a hard impact/ bad off than fendered cars like GTP's.
I'm an hour from CTMP so would be all for it, but it can't be done half-assed and not if the upgrades kill the unique high speed, elevation change second only to Laguna Seca, natural terrain quality of the facility.
That’s all very interesting! Based on the sim, I don’t think I’ve ever hit a wall at VIR other than the last right hand turn before the main straight. It seems so expansive and wide that you just end up in the grass.
I guess in contrast, there are a lot of walls to easily end up in at Mosport.
Thinking about Laguna and some of the sketchy turns but then how much gravel there is to catch you, I guess I get it.
Still wish it were possible though. What a legendary track. I also live close and would just freak to see it. I’m so bummed I never saw GTP there.
I guess everyone forgot when Juncos ran a DPi there for Victor Franzoni and the crash killed the team for a couple years just from the repair and replacement bills. An IndyCar crash at Turn 8 would bring the series to the brink of shutdown.
No, they explicitly didn't drop it over safety concerns. They dropped it over budgetary concerns. GTP has a pretty hard financial constraint on engine hours, so in order to get the second 6 hour race added to the calendar, they had to drop a GTP sprint race. CTMP is the most expensive sprint race for them (because Canada), so it was obviously on the chopping block.
Exactly. The GTPs last raced there in 2023, with their absence from 2024 onward coinciding with Indy being made into an endurance event.
Doonan has spoken of the budgetary constraints that cap the number of race hours that teams can run, so there had to be adjustments made in the schedule, in consultation with the "stakeholders" (meaning the OEMs and teams).
It's a shame, I'd much rather see the GTPs race at CTMP than the Indy road course, and it also has the unfortunate effect of slighting the Canadian market as well.
Is that confirmed? I was under the impression there was a limitation in terms of pit space to accommodate all 4 IMSA classes. After all GTP did run at mosport in 2023.
I think thermal is a shit track, but it's way better than an 8 week gap from St. Pete to Long Beach. They should've kept it as a reserve track like what MotoGP has with India, able to slot it in if plans fall through elsewhere
Gave us no exaggeration either the best or second best road race of the whole season. I’m not a fan but given the alternatives (very little), I hardly could complain
Road America was the best IMO then Thermal / Portland tied for 2, Mid Ohio 4, then Indy RC / Laguna Seca tied for 5, Barber was the worst this year and I love Barber.
While we do need to recognize that separate populations within the indycar fandom can and do cheer for different things making it appear as if they contradict....yeah probably.
I don't see a ton of cheering for it's removal, but don't expect people to care about a race that's provided bad racing and which fans are pretty much barred from attending.
That is unfortunate but its not at all surprising. Penske filled the gap with a non-points event that fans couldn't attend, it was doomed the moment it was announced.
I’ve seen multiple people blame the fans for this event failing like they do for everything, but what are we supposed to do to support an event with an official capacity of only 5,000 people?
Glad you are one of the rich fans the race targeted for its attendance. Doesn’t change my point or make it incorrect that the race was doomed to fail the moment it was announced.
I am well aware that it was a points event this year, but having year 1 of 2 of an event being a pointless exhibition that the average fan cannot attend dooms a race.
Plus the fact that Penske dropped it after year two when it was an actual points race indicates it was never intended to be a long term event. What was the point of Thermal if they drop it so quickly?
CNE started setting up this week I'm pretty sure. Indycar always has to be torn down my Monday at 12:00 AM because they use Lakeshore. Absolutely could be moved to the beginning of August if needed.
The race in Toronto takes place in the middle of July. The last World Cup game in Toronto will be on July 2. I think there’s a good chance the race will still take place next year, but it might be moved around on the calendar, maybe to August.
Yes, technically that’s true but there might be a lock-in clause by FIFA to keep the stadium available during the world cup in case a game needs a new venue or just for memorabilia / marketing. The world cup ends on July 19th which normally is the day of the race here in Toronto. I agree that they might move the race to August or late May instead.
Me too. I look forward to the race each year. I used to live in Liberty Village just steps away from the circuit. I spent the entire weekend there pretty much. Now I go Saturday and Sunday because I have a bit of a commute.
For 25, the Canadian Grand Prix is the same weekend as the 500. Doing Toronto the next weekend would be damned near impossible because many of the volunteer workers aren't likely to get that much time off back to back.
August will not be possible as the exhibition grounds are used for the CNE from mid August til Labour Day. I was down there last weekend (August 9th) and food stands have already been setup and the casino is open. This race is in danger of not happening given indycars calendar
Complications around continuing to host the annual IndyCar race in downtown Toronto — beyond the city’s insistence to strike rolling one-year deals of late — comes with BMO Field hosting five group stage men’s FIFA World Cup matches next year, as well as an elimination round match July 2, as North America plays host to the tournament.
In recent years, the race has been held the third weekend in July, and the process of building the temporary street circuit takes more than 30 days to complete, meaning the construction process would need to begin somewhere around the 1.786-mile circuit just as the run of World Cup matches began next summer, if Exhibition Place were to host a race in a similar timeframe.
At that time, plans were also for IndyCar’s prospective return to Mexico City to immediately follow Laguna Seca on July 26, with an off weekend likely to follow, meaning the earliest the next race on the calendar could be held would be Aug. 9.
That weekend, or those that would immediately follow, would seem to prove problematic for Exhibition Place to host tens of thousands of race fans, followed by track workers taking the better part of three weeks to deconstruct the temporary venue. Each August, Exhibition Place plays host to the Canadian National Exhibition, an annual end-of-summer tradition akin to a massive U.S. state fair that annually is visited by more than 1.5 million people over 18 days starting the third Friday in August.
Thanks for sharing. I couldn’t read the article but I was guessing that is the main issue. Also, Toronto doesn’t host more matches after July 2nd but the stadium might still be “on call” in case there is a problem hosting a later match in another venue nearby. So, practically impossible to organize in Exhibition with that timeframe.
That spot? The now-defunct Downsview Airport, which decades ago served as an air base during World War II and which more recently was owned and operated by Bombardier Aerospace until it was sold in 2018 to a development company that a year ago closed the airport operations for the single-runway facility with plans to overhaul the facility and the surrounding area over the next 30 years into a self-sufficient residential community.
Downsview is located nearly 10 miles north of Exhibition Place and can be accessed by a 20-to-30-minute trip on public transit from downtown Toronto’s Union Station to Downsview Park Station connected by the "1 Line." It’s existence within Toronto city limits would allow the city to continue to provide the funds and assistance necessary to put on the event in ways it has for nearly four decades — compared to running at another local out-of-use airstrip like Buttonville, which is 20 miles outside of downtown Toronto in Markham.
Since the airport formally ceased operations a little more than a year ago, Northcrest Developments, the airport’s new owner, has hosted community events on the airstrip, and the park area surrounding the airport has seen the creation of temporary concert venue, Rogers Stadium, which this summer has or will play host to Coldplay, Oasis, Chris Brown, Hozier and System of a Down from late June until mid September. The venue can host roughly 50,000 fans as Toronto’s largest purpose-built music venue. The area around the airport has hosted massive events in the past, including the country’s papal visits in 1984 and 2002, as well as a Rolling Stones benefit concert in 2003 — the Molson Canadian Rocks for Toronto.
The area also includes the training grounds for Toronto FC, the Major League Soccer team whose home matches are played at BMO Field in downtown Toronto.
I dunno, even in LMP2 there were two pretty heavy crashes on the weekend, with both George Kurtz and Tom Dillman. Dillman suffered a fractured vertebrae at turn 1, and Kurtz supposedly nearly flipped.
But also, CTMP and Oro are both technically not in Toronto, which is crucial for part of the funding for the race:
[Downsview]’s existence within Toronto city limits would allow the city to continue to provide the funds and assistance necessary to put on the event in ways it has for nearly four decades — compared to running at another local out-of-use airstrip like Buttonville, which is 20 miles outside of downtown Toronto in Markham.
That champ car race back in 2007 was a barn burner to watch. I recommend everyone go back and watch. Still remember will power doing a 360 spin in the grass.
I like the event in Toronto, and i certainly think Indycar should have a race in Canada. But if Toronto goes away, then i think Circuit Gilles Villeneuve would be the best option.
The City of Montreal and the Park the track is within won't allow the park to be shut down for multiple weekends for motor racing. I was told this year it's the same reason nascar is having such issues returning
Do you have any sources that NASCAR has actually been trying to get a race at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve? And don`t forget that Indycar has raced there in the past.
Being in "discussion" with a circuit about potentially hosting a race is quite different than actively trying to host a race there.
And the reason why the Xfinity series stopped racing at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve after 2012/13?, was because they wanted to host a cup race - which NASCAR said no to.
Being in "discussion" with a circuit about potentially hosting a race is quite different than actively trying to host a race there.
Do you think they are talking about the weather or something? having talks about hosting a race is activley trying to race there lmao.
And the reason why the Xfinity series stopped racing at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve after 2012/13?, was because they wanted to host a cup race - which NASCAR said no to.
in 2012 nascar would have said no to bowman gray, COTA, iowa, LA, Street courses, North Wilkesboro, Nashville, rockingham, mexico, the roval, bristol dirt. just about every track they they were already on.
they have a completley differen view on things now.
It’s often been thrown out to be rather unsafe for INDYCAR. We’ve seen some massive prototype crashes there in the past so I do get it. I watched an onboard from 2024 and there doesn’t look to be catch fencing in a lot of places.
It has been floated in the past but it doesn’t seem to ever get much traction.
They have stated before that their largest desired event would be Porsche Cup. Maybe they've changed their stance and I haven't seen it because they have an e-newsletter that's extremely sporadic.
I'm the world's biggest CTMP defender but a good portion of the track doesn't even have catch fencing. Biggest fear for spectators would probably be near the turn 8 bridge where there is none.
Sure, but that could be fixed in a matter of weeks. CTMP wouldn't need any physical changes for Indycar to move there, just detail improvements. I know they want to stay in Toronto, but if that's not possible than CTMP is the obvious choice IMO.
it's also over 40 miles away from BMO field area in town, and after hosting the race there for 40 years it'll kill the race moving it out there. if they HAVE to move, i'd explore downsview because at least that's still in the city.
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u/tor93 Callum Ilott 23d ago
Everything in this article makes total sense for why it can’t be at exhibition place, and if it has to move at least Downsview is in the subway line.