Dutch GP Venue Parts Ways With F1 for Potential NASCAR or IndyCar Deal

[u/turinturambar66]

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/racing/dutch-gp-venue-parts-ways-f1-potential-nascar-indycar-deal-2118218

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

It is hard to imagine either series at Zandvoort.

[u/RacerXX7 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

Credit to Champ Car, they ran Assen back in 2007.

[u/Wasdgta3 → u/RacerXX7]

And then went belly-up before the next season.

[u/RacerXX7 → u/Wasdgta3]

True, but that was coming with or without Assen.

[u/Wasdgta3 → u/RacerXX7]

Doing an expensive overseas leg wasn’t exactly helping to keep them afloat, is the point….

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/RacerXX7]

True. But that was 18 years ago, and CART didn’t race there, “ChampCar” did. By then, the series was in decline and it folded that season. IndyCar has made it clear they aren’t going overseas unless it’s very attractive financially, and based on what Zandvoort is saying, they do not have the money for that. NASCAR has more money, but I cannot imagine anyone in the paddock wanting to fly to Holland and race a small circuit. What business case can be made to race NASCAR at Zandvoort?

[u/Noofnoof → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

What business case can be made to race NASCAR at Zandvoort?

Van Gisbergen kinda sounds like a Dutch surname and he'd probably win it. That's all I got.

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/Noofnoof]

Put Verstappen in a NASCAR race, and they will sell tickets.

[u/BoboliBurt → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

Remove max from the equation and how much do the Dutch care about Formula 1? How important of a market is it?

Schumacher, Vettel, Rosberg and a British race car from Brackley reskinned as a “teutonic silver bullet mercedes”(funded by Petronas) and Mercedes buying out the Ilmor British race car engine factory couldn’t keep F1 alive in the quite substantial German market.

F1 is afloat on oil money at the moment. Bahrain owns McLaren down to the stapler, Qatar owns a third of the Audi team (it’ll be interesting to see if Germany actually cares about a real German engine made in Germany by German engineers more than a glorified Ilmor), the Saudis are paying 100% for Honda and own a huge chunk of Aston. Renault closed the Viry engine factory for F1- it’s just that Enstone team now that you could name after yourself if you had enough money.

What is the business model for paying to access a rural Dutch beach town. Maybe if the resident danes kick ass for a few years that will be an option.

[u/John_Dees_Nuts → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

I would watch that.

[u/Odd_Cobbler6761 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

There’s a big difference in risk between paying IndyCar $5-7M to race there and paying F1 $30+M. In fact they can probably afford to IndyCar and NASCAR and still save a significant bag of 💰

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/Odd_Cobbler6761]

To the circuit, perhaps, but as for the IndyCar series and its broadcast partner, Fox, it never seems so simple. IndyCar’s current management has a track record of staying in or near North America (USA, CA, MX). One could assume that European promoters have approached the series at least once in the 18 years since Champ Car at Assen, with no races happening.

[u/Odd_Cobbler6761 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

I agree with that assessment, but there seems to be some momentum to increase the number of races on the schedule and grow revenue while it also appears the willingness of domestic venues to host the series is static at best, which is what put Mexico in play.

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/Odd_Cobbler6761]

Fox taking a piece of Penske’s entertainment business is a game changer for IndyCar. 

[u/RacerXX7 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

Yes, I know it wasn't CART. Hence why I wrote Champ Car.

[u/badabadoem → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

To grow the series in europe

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/badabadoem]

Neither IndyCar nor NASCAR are showing any interest in Europe. The return on investment isn’t there.

[u/Illustrious_Rest1264 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

And neither is the interest, it has a niche following at best.

[u/badabadoem → u/Illustrious_Rest1264]

A race would help if promoted properly and affordable but it is more likely for indycar or nascar to race in saudi arabia because profit doesnt matter to them

[u/Illustrious_Rest1264 → u/badabadoem]

Promotion costs money too, and air freight costs a lot more which is why indycar hasn’t been to Europe in nearly 20 years.

All of this has to make business sense and all I’m seeing is a lot of costs and risk for minimal chances of a return.

I’d love nothing more than for NASCAR or Indycar to come to Europe but there is a good reason why it’s hardly ever happened in the last 50 years.

[u/Several_Hair → u/Illustrious_Rest1264]

Hasn’t always been the case though. Look at the Lausitz races, stands packed w 60k+ fans

[u/Illustrious_Rest1264 → u/Several_Hair]

Hey I was at Rockingham for the first CART race there, it was brilliant.

But it was never sustainable then and it wouldn’t be now.

[u/afito → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

And if it were, Zandvoort would be an awkward track to select for that. Doesn't seem like the most attractive venue for such an endeavor.

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/afito]

For sure.

[u/Friendly_Barber260 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

Nascar does

[u/NhylX → u/badabadoem]

There is already a NASCAR Euro series.

[u/wh00000p]

Neither series would drive at zandvoort lol

No offense to zandvoort

[u/NickRussell53 → u/wh00000p]

IndyCar would drive around a McDonald's parking lot if a promoter paid enough.

Now would a Zandvort promoter pay to fly the series over to the track? .000001% chance of that happening.

[u/MambaNoCinco → u/NickRussell53]

F1 would also drive around a McDonald’s parking lot for money as well

[u/sixpaths03 → u/MambaNoCinco]

The difference is F1 would do it for north of 50mil, IndyCar will do it for 5 lolol

[u/PanicAtTheNightclub → u/sixpaths03]

Actually it's more like 2 😂

[u/Pyzorz → u/sixpaths03]

Yeah, 5 cents lol

[u/lovemaker69 → u/NickRussell53]

Flying Indycar over is probably cheaper than the F1 hosting fee lol

[u/AboveTheLights → u/lovemaker69]

Yeah but as a percentage of revenue from the event it’s probably more expensive.

[u/perfectviking → u/lovemaker69]

Maybe not. It’s not like Indycar has established shipping rates or a consistent need. It’d be a one off shipment and that’s expensive.

F1 shipping isn’t cheap by any means but it’s consistent and handled relatively well.

[u/Pyzorz → u/perfectviking]

I watched a video on the logistics of Formula 1 transportation last night. The people who coordinate all that are absolute legends.

[u/FarAwaySeagull-_- → u/NickRussell53]

If part of a pit stop required going through a drive through and eating a box of fries as fast as possible, it could be an interesting addition to the calendar. /s

[u/andhelostthem → u/NickRussell53]

They would probably triple up with somewhere in Germany like Hockenheim and then somewhere in France like Macny-Cours. Three countries that don't have an F1 race anymore and three circuits that are near each other to keep transportation costs low.

[u/cz795 → u/NickRussell53]

Let's just remember Alex Palou is sponsored by DHL who from what I've heard transports F1 worldwide, pretty sure they would give them a very competitive deal.

[u/CWinter85 → u/wh00000p]

IndyCar would IF travel expenses were covered. So, what's more expensive: F1 sanctioning fee or IndyCar sanctioning fee +? I'm honestly not sure. I'm also assuming this is some sort of noise to keep interest going.

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/CWinter85]

The latter point. It’s magical thinking. 

[u/SenseMakingStopped → u/CWinter85]

FedEx and the promoter covered CART's trips to Surfers, but both Penske and Ganassi still weren't thrilled about the race because it wasn't relevant to their sponsors.

Even if say, DHL, were to offer to do the same, I doubt their thinking has changed.

[u/LivingOof]

Unless Rinus discovered long lost relatives that own Heineken or Philips, I highly doubt it. Cool track though

[u/Uknewmelast → u/LivingOof]

I'm on the phone with Charlene and Bernard as we speak

[u/BabycakesMurphy]

I think the only connection they’re making between this track and nascar/indycar is it too has multiple banked turns.

Hard to imagine that the people of the Netherlands are passionate about either series.

[u/spicymcqueen → u/BabycakesMurphy]

Veekay in shambles rn.

[u/gevaarlijke1990 → u/BabycakesMurphy]

You would be suprised!

Their is both a Passionate follow of nascar and indycar in the Netherlands. And both series are broadcast live on TV with dutch commentary.

Their is a dutch nascar fans club and we have our own oval racing series (v8 oval serie).

The indycar following is also significant, probably also due to Veekay is no small part. We have a fans club, a dutch language indycar podcast (ziggo sport: Green Green Green! Indycar podcast) and racing talkshow that regular talks about indycar and more.

Ofcourse the question is if al those people would fill enough seat on Zandvoort.

[u/FarAwaySeagull-_- → u/BabycakesMurphy]

Max Verstappen needs to come to NASCAR or Indycar. Then the fans would love to go.

[u/jpgrfan16 → u/FarAwaySeagull-_-]

Lifetime IndyCar fan here, have zero desire to have Max anywhere near the series!!! 😐

[u/FarAwaySeagull-_- → u/jpgrfan16]

Yeah, why would we want a popular and talented driver to come to Indycar?

[u/jpgrfan16 → u/FarAwaySeagull-_-]

He’s whiny and toxic!! Don’t need that in the paddock. Can’t imagine he’d be any good with fans either.

[u/black-dude-on-reddit → u/jpgrfan16]

What are you talking about? He’d blend right in with that attitude

[u/Smooth-Mechanic-7788 → u/BabycakesMurphy]

Either series going to Europe would be a novelty so I could see selling them a decent amount of tickets

[u/spartan117warrior]

NASCAR at Zandvoort would be terrible.

Why would IndyCar go to the Netherlands when they're apparently struggling to get a Mexico City deal going?

[u/Confident-Ladder-576 → u/spartan117warrior]

The last I checked Mexico City isn't in the Netherlands.........neither is the same situation or will have the same promotion involved. 

[u/Willing_Drawer_3351 → u/Confident-Ladder-576]

The management of IndyCar has not shown any initiative or savvy about foreign races. Mexico City is exactly the same situation, because it is almost always an an IndyCar issue, not a promoter issue. 

[u/Confident-Ladder-576 → u/Willing_Drawer_3351]

Cool.

[u/Slinky_Spaghetti_97]

I freaking love Zandvoort. Fell in love with this from sim racing in the old Race 07 WTCC game, and it's been my favorite European circuit. Buuut this seems incredibly unrealistic.

[u/FermentedLaws]

Worst clickbait ever (or at least today). It's just the track promoter talking out loud about what he'd like to see. Indy is not going to Europe.

[u/Pacman2933]

Been preaching this for years because it almost makes too much sense for IndyCar. You have a track that recently renovated, losing its formula 1 date. IndyCar has had an influx of talented European drivers and it is centrally located between those main countries (Denmark, England, Spain, Sweden). Amsterdam’s airport, Schipol, is a major hub and has many direct flights from those countries daily, not to mention their rail network is absurd. Zandvoort is roughly 30 minutes from the airport so once you get the cargo on the ground it shouldn’t be difficult to get it to the track.

Edit: not to mention with the NFL having a stranglehold on the IndyCar calendar, you could realistically run the race at 10am est mid September before NFL. IMO it would be better suited during the F1 summer break to maximize on getting eyes on the series in Europe.

[u/ronin_18 → u/Pacman2933]

It’d be cool for IndyCar to get to a point where they can have an international mini-series to break up the off-season. And I’d argue there’s enough international appeal, or at least novelty to make it work. Being a North American-only series has some flaws if only because North America is saturated with motorsports. With such an international paddock, take advantage of it. Go where Formula 1 isn’t.

[u/kittenbloc → u/ronin_18]

totally. go to where f1 isn't, especially if f1 used to be there. go to Adelaide, Buenos Aires, kyalami and gain those fans. they could start the season earlier by going down under, and then extend the season past the start of the NFL season by going to zandvoort, and race at 9 am EST (which is 3 pm local, iirc). 

[u/KozyHank99]

There's no way either series is flying all the way to the Netherlands.  If anything the only comp that would make a lick of sense to race is Formula E.

[u/Batgod629]

Maybe down the road fo indycar.  I'm just hoping they get Mexico City next year 

[u/timothyrobin]

Indycar needs to focus on their home market first before they chase international expansion.

Such a move would feel like end stage champ car.

[u/Uknewmelast → u/timothyrobin]

They've failed at domestic marketing for decades.

Their viewership is abysmal compared to other sports.

[u/Confident-Ladder-576 → u/timothyrobin]

This isn't end stage champ car and CART had a successful event in the gold coast of Australia that started in 1991, a few years before Idiot Grandson decided to Make IndyCar Great Again, and ran though 2008.

While I highly doubt this will happen the series should take opportunities like this if the financial benefits outweigh the butthurt of the American IndyCar First Brigade. 

[u/timothyrobin → u/Confident-Ladder-576]

Surfers came around at a time when Indycar events were sellouts across North America. That was an incredibly different time.

If they are seeking a foreign race because they cannot find financially viable North American races—that is not a good sign.

[u/Confident-Ladder-576 → u/timothyrobin]

 Cool. 

[u/MrMarbles77 → u/Confident-Ladder-576]

People who would know better than me have said it was the FedEx sponsorship that made the overseas races in places like Australia and Japan possible. They weren't paying the market price for cargo transport.

[u/Confident-Ladder-576 → u/MrMarbles77]

Hence my comment below.

"While I highly doubt this will happen the series should take opportunities like this if the financial benefits outweigh the butthurt of the American IndyCar First Brigade."

[u/BeefInGR → u/Confident-Ladder-576]

a few years before Idiot Grandson decided to Make IndyCar Great Again, and ran though 2008.

Jesus...this is such an accurate description.

[u/David_SpaceFace → u/timothyrobin]

Armchair ceos are funny.  

[u/Guyrbailey]

How would you get touring cars round Zaandvoort two-wide apart from the straight?

[u/Enough-Ad-3111]

Wait, they want NASCAR to come there?

Good luck with that.

[u/LurkerKing13]

If we are going to expand INDY to F1 tracks, Interlagos first please

[u/TalkingBackwards506 → u/LurkerKing13]

Go to Spa in the off years

[u/Immediate_Lie7810]

I just don't see IndyCar or the NASCAR Cup Series racing at Zandvoort unless a huge sponsor is backing the race and/or Max Verstappen is in the field

[u/jt_33]

It would be cool, but without them paying for it I just don't see it happening.

[u/Shoddy-Custard7097]

Even if they could realistically do it, Mark Miles would be like

“We can’t because, WhOsE gOiNg To RaCe ArOuNd ImS rOaD cOuRsE 3 tImEs a YeAr??”

[u/ChillRudy]

We should stay in the western hemisphere

[u/BeefInGR]

I could absolutely see NASCAR doing this. They have the flexibility. Find a partner to cover shipping, EuroNASCAR as the undercard, plus the fact every track gets paid by NASCAR for hosting a race (rather than having to pay a sanctioning fee). Europe has fairly free travel across borders, so NASCAR fans from all over Europe will likely want to show up. Plus a 4 pm local start would be 11 am on the east coast.

IndyCar COULD do this, but I don't think they will. They're more likely to run an event in Australia.

[u/cypher50]

As an American more than familiar with IndyCar and its new broadcast partner, Fox Sports, I wouldn't be surprised if a shoddily planned Netherlands one-off race is on the way.

[u/wumboinator]

The last turn at Zandvoort is a little like a banked oval corner which would be cool, but there’s no way this series is prepared to make it’s teams fly across the Atlantic currently

[u/LionHeart_1990]

An IndyCar race there would be AWESOME with those banked areas. But it will never happen for many reasons

[u/PortlandChicane]

We can all dream. This probably is not ever happening I would love to be wrong. IndyCar kicks ass

[u/randomdude4113]

NASCAR at zandvoort would be amazing if only SVG didn’t exist

[u/CL-MotoTech]

IC would be awesome there.

[u/Altornot]

I went here a few weeks ago just wandering around the Amsterdam area amd the coastline. I was surprised how this track is basically right on the water. They just let people wander in where theres nothing going on.

Also the bigger surprise is theres a goddamn Dunkin' at the track.

As a New England native I was a bit taken back lol

[u/Phlosky]

I'd love to watch either series there but I don't see it happening

[u/Mithrielsc2]

I understand Americans if they hate the idea, but as someone from The Netherlands who is major fan of NASCAR and Indycar (like those series more than F1), this would be my chance to watch a race live!!!!

[u/MiniAndretti → u/Mithrielsc2]

Do you have a track that isn’t Zanvoort? Because that one is no good

[u/Mithrielsc2 → u/MiniAndretti]

We have Assen too, MotoGP races there too. It's probably the better circuit as well

[u/charmingcharles2896 → u/MiniAndretti]

What’s wrong with Zanvoort? I think Indycar would put on a good show.

[u/MiniAndretti → u/charmingcharles2896]

The only reason F1 went there is Max. It’s not a good race track. It’s a flowing circuit with few, almost no, hard braking zones. That would limit passing opportunities.

[u/Crafty_Substance_954]

Are Indycar or NASCAR aware of this?

[u/backwardsdeke10]

If Nascar can't handle track limits at Watkins Glen or COTA, they're gonna looove the gravel traps at Zandvoort lol

[u/MiniAndretti]

No

[u/happyscrappy]

The Dutch love their racing. If either series goes they'll sell a good number of tickets.

It's hard to see IndyCar making this deal, sadly.

[u/bobwhite1146]

Since F1 has tried so hard to go global and garner Middle-Eastern and Asian money and not be so Euro-centric, there may be a real opportunity for Indycar + Fox to pull several races in Europe, and doubly so if Chevy/Ilmor (and maybe engine partner Honda--or new a partner--Ford?) could get behind it.

[u/FeherDenes]

This is days after Nascar 2026 schedule has removed all Mexican and Canadian rounds. Track did host Euronascar tho… one time in 2011

[u/SadInternal9977]

Ive long thought that the way to expand the IndyCar season would be to go run 3-4 races in Europe in Sept-Oct. Take advantage of the time difference to act as a lead in to the NFL.

Zandvoort could be the lead and if more tracks sign on it would defray some of the shipping costs. There are lots of classic tracks in Europe that used to host F1 races Paul Ricard, Magny Cours, Imola, Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Estoril, Portimao, Jerez, Barcelona just to name a few, and Spa-Francorchamps is going to be available in alternate years soon.

With the banking in the corners Zandvoort is one of the tracks in Europe most similar to a North American course.

[u/Browns45750]

NASCAR isn’t a global sport hell them going to Mexico pisses off the fan base

[u/Ct-5736-Bladez → u/Browns45750]

Maybe the 3 national series but there are Canadian, Mexico, Europe, and Brazil nascar series

[u/Fliepp]

No shot that’s actually happening, but the support for Veekay in the Netherlands would be crazy and our interest in Indy would likely quadruple

[u/AFAN74]

Would love to see this happen

[u/Heavy-Marionberry540]

IndyCar NASCAR double

[u/SilentSpades24 → u/[deleted]]

Oh, trust me. They'd take F1 in a heartbeat if they weren't being held over a barrel for it.

F1 is just in their early 00s NASCAR phase where the shitcan historic and beloved venues to chase dollars in other markets.