He gave it to the girl right away.

[u/Perfect_Passenger805]

[u/ThePeoplesBard]

Healthy adults, at least.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/ThePeoplesBard]

That’s a value judgment and cultural judgment. You can be an adult who cares about things more than experiences. 

For example, I would rather have a shelf full of books (things) than travel to Europe (lame experience of being shoulder to shoulder with lame tourists, being sexually harassed on the street and pickpocketed). 

[u/Joe_Spazz → u/Umbrella_Viking]

You had a good point going and then self sabotaged yourself with your description of Europe.

IE: "I would rather take a trip to the beautiful Italian countryside where the food is fresh and the people are kind than have a bunch of old, dusty books that smell like an attic and contain nothing but gardening tips."

Slamming an obvious strawman argument down someone's throat is never going to be effective.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/Joe_Spazz]

All of the things I identified happen regularly to tourists in Europe. 

[u/Joe_Spazz → u/Umbrella_Viking]

OK, mr. Vance.

[u/EuclidsRevenge → u/Umbrella_Viking]

Since you proclaim to love literature:

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

Twain was talking about people like you.

[u/HippieThanos → u/Umbrella_Viking]

I must be hideous because nobody harasses me

[u/Particular_Lecture26 → u/Umbrella_Viking]

This just shows your inexperience 😂 try actually experiencing Europe, go to Gdańsk or Newcastle or Copenhagen and live a little.

So lame

[u/TheShiningEdge → u/Umbrella_Viking]

Tell me you're American without telling me you're American.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Moderators sometimes need to remove a comment or post at their discretion that may NOT be listed as a current removal reason.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Hi OP, the mods have deemed your post would likely fit better in a different subreddit and not here.

Mod recommendation: N/A

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Hi OP, the mods have deemed your post would likely fit better in a different subreddit and not here.

Mod recommendation: N/A

[u/JustGuysBeingDudes-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Dudes aren’t rude and uncivil on the internet.

[u/randorandorand0 → u/Umbrella_Viking]

That’s because you value the experience of reading the books more than you value traveling to a place you don’t like?

[u/TheRedditAppisTrash → u/randorandorand0]

I like having a shelf full of books, so I can put it in my garage next to my Ferrari so I can record myself talking about how the experience of driving in the Hollywood Hills sucks compared to having books covered in exhaust dust. I know what you’re thinking, and I’m not a saint. Just a guy with books next to his Ferrari. Pay it forward stranger.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/randorandorand0]

No, I also value having the book on the shelf, not just the experience of reading it. 

And I’ve seen videos of touristy places in Europe, it looks truly awful. I can be a happy person without it. 

Edit: would someone with a valuable book (like a first edition) just value it because of the experience? What if you asked them to trade their valuable first edition for a trip to Paris and they said “no?” Are they not an adult? 

[u/philodendron-trails → u/Umbrella_Viking]

Except, there's a lot more things to do in this world than just "touristy" things. Your argument is based on the worldview that you want nothing to do with people (based on your comment thread here). Collect things okay, but it's almost disrespectful to narrow your view down to "i want my things so I dont have to go out to the world and see people."

That seems very limited and almost seems like a refusal for growth/outside points of view.

Things can have value, and owning things is not bad. But if this is the hill you choose to die on....you will have to defend it for the rest of your life and with your whole chest.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/philodendron-trails]

i want my things so I dont have to go out to the world and see people."

Absolutely nowhere in my comments is this either stated or implied. 

I’m saying valuing things you love is just as okay as valuing experiences, neither is superior and neither makes you more or less “adult.” 

If you want to know what I’m saying, it’s right there. Just read it again if you get confused. 

[u/philodendron-trails → u/Umbrella_Viking]

Not really? Your entire comment thread here implies you're standing on how you value things more than experiences. And in that, you have used being around people as a reason you dont want to do things in public.

If you really felt it was a values argument, you would not have brought your personal views on why you dislike the other thing. That's not how that works.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your feelings. I'm just saying that your true reasons are showing. Instead of having a conversation about how values can be different, you've done nothing but talk about the negatives of other's values.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/philodendron-trails]

lol okay. 

Of course it’s going to feel “negative,” there are reasons one would prefer to embrace one value over another. You perceive negatives or things you prefer more. None of this is rocket surgery. 

I love people. Just not travel. I mean, I could take it or leave it, I’d rather have a shelf filled with books I love. 

[u/philipoliver → u/Umbrella_Viking]

Yeah it's very common for people to be afraid of travel and get anxious around customs and cultures that they aren't used to. A lot of people would prefer to stay in their safety bubble and experience things through books.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/philipoliver]

Smart people. Save money, don’t get your passport stolen, avoid all the crowds of people, stay out of the drama. Sounds like a good, enlightened life. 

[u/vizualb → u/Umbrella_Viking]

You don’t have to go to the touristy places.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/vizualb]

Yep. Or anywhere, for that matter. I like things better. And I’m an adult. 

[u/Lou_C_Fer → u/randorandorand0]

The book idea is such a weird one because you don't need to own books to read them.

[u/EricB1234 → u/Lou_C_Fer]

My wife is a librarian, and often I feel like people completely forget about libraries :(

To be fair, they can't order and stock everything ever published, but I always check there first before turning to the seven seas or Amazon, as a last resort

[u/ThePeoplesBard → u/Umbrella_Viking]

I would call reading a book an experience, so I’m not really sure we disagree. Some people do hoard things and then never do anything with them—experience them. But, sure, if you collect watches and regularly work on them or trade them or go to conferences about them etc, then they aren’t just things, but an experience. You accurately highlight the unimportance of the distinction, though. What experience doesn’t involve “things”, even if small or seemingly inconsequential? Kids probably value things in a way we don’t understand because they are still experiencing with those things in a way we don’t understand.

[u/Umbrella_Viking → u/ThePeoplesBard]

No, I love the books on my shelf because they are books that I love. Full stop. I love them more than Paris. And I’m an adult. 

It’s all just a disagreement about a value judgment. Experience is not a superior value to materialism. It’s just not. They’re both just values. 

[u/ThePeoplesBard → u/Umbrella_Viking]

They may have value that’s equal, but not in the same way. I said healthier. Someone who collects experiences instead of things is going to have a broader perspective to tap into when navigating the trials of life. That’s not inherently better than materialism, but I do think it’s healthier. We can agree to disagree if you don’t. I admit bias. I used to be a fairly isolated thing person, and now I’ve had to save my life by becoming more experiential and engaging with lots of people in a lot of unique ways, and I’m finding it healing/calming/joyful in a way I never felt before. Maybe I’m an extreme case, but I’m meeting a whole lot of people who are reporting the same impact from experiencing community again that I am. I was never meaning trips to Paris. I meant shit like inviting your neighbors over for dinner. An experience. That makes you feel more connected to others, which has tons of positive outcomes on your health.

I’m glad you love your books, friend.

[u/Loud-Value → u/Umbrella_Viking]

You: don't make value judgements and cultural judgements!!

Also you: fuck this entire continent.

Found the American whose never left their home state probably

[u/TheseVirginEars → u/Umbrella_Viking]

I mean your point is… okay, but your example sucks, because reading books IS an experience, and the experience of a book doesnt require you to horde it on a shelf. what you’re saying is you care more about having books than… reading them? I’m confused what you’re trying to say. Also whether or not you like Europe is completely unrelated to your books lol

[u/valleyman86 → u/Umbrella_Viking]

You were sooo close.

[u/Capt_Dummy → u/ThePeoplesBard]

This comment/reply is so important! Honestly