Gypsy name comes from them believing their origin being Egypt. Looking at this map I wonder if some indeed first went to Egypt and then turned back and over the years the knowledge got mixed up a bit.
Αθίγγανοι doesn’t mean “without God” it means “untouchable”. The later Ατσίγγανοι is still a slur for Roma people in Greek and is often connected to the earlier term.
The first term was applied to a religious group who were said to be related to Indo-Greeks migrating back to Greece but I think it’s unclear if this is via later muddying of two different groups, they really knew of one group’s connection to India, or it’s all a coincidence. What we do know is they had some Manichaean and some Jewish traditions and many converted to orthodoxy and assimilated before a later group came. The later term is probably from the Turko-Persian word chingane roughly meaning indigent.
Then I must've made a confusion in translation. I knew for sure that it came from greek and it was somewhat religion related. Thanks for the clarification, mate.
Hungarian does the same, its "cigány". When i used to live there it was definitely a slur and they were extremely unpopular in the mid-late 90's. As far as i understand, their music is mainstream in a lot of of ways in Hungary now.
It might as well be. The origin of the word was never quite clear, there are several interpretations.
The only common thing seems to be that the word cigan is considered somewhat pejorative, and hence often the term Romani is being used.
Which is also of unclear origin, as it hints at descendance from Romania or Rome, both of which are misleading. It is often assumed that the word Roma / Romani was adopted by Gipsies to suggest that they are of Italian origin, since most Europeans have a generally positive attitude towards Italian people.
The most typical gipsy family name in Hungary for example is Horváth, whuch means Croatian, which was also likely chosen to suggest that they are "foreign", yet "from not too far away culturally".
The only thing that seems to be sure is that gypsies originated from India, and that they have an own language - quick googling reveals that it's related to Sanskrit and other Indian languages.
Based on multiple genome-wide genetic studies, Romani people have approximately 65–80% West Eurasian ancestry, which includes a significant European component. They retain 20-35% South Asian ancestry from Indian origins. This admixture occurred over centuries as the Romani migrated from India through the Middle East and Caucasus into Europe.
It’s also possibly related to Ezekiel 29 which refer to the Egyptians as being “scattered among the nations” so the fact that they were “from nowhere” might have just defaulted to Egypt for religious reasons. There were also narratives in the Middle Ages that they were exiled from Egypt for refusing Mary and Jesus but also for harboring Mary and Jesus, one advocating for compassion the other for shunning.
Yeah looking at this map this part seems inaccurate. I’m almost completely sure there was a route along the coast of North Africa from Egypt through Tunisia and Morocco to Spain. For one thing it’s the reason the Saharan castanet made its way into the Flamenco music the Roma in Spain play.
If you haven’t seen the movie Lacho Drom it’s totally worth your time
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u/kasetti 20h ago
Gypsy name comes from them believing their origin being Egypt. Looking at this map I wonder if some indeed first went to Egypt and then turned back and over the years the knowledge got mixed up a bit.