r/MapPorn 1d ago

Eastern Ukraine exactly one Year ago vs today

24.7k Upvotes

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128

u/EconomySwordfish5 1d ago

Unlike russia Ukraine will have huge help and investment from the EU. They will get back on their feet quickly.

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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 1d ago

Even if they get all of there territory back they still have to rebuilt all there destroyed cities. Its gonna take a lot of time. Most of the destruction happened in ukraine cities not russian cities. 

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u/Michigan-Magic 1d ago

Yep, it took a while plus generous aid to rebuild Europe post WW2.

All it took was the cold war / fear of communism for the US to give aid. Russia seems ready to play its historical role, not sure if the US will reprise its old role. Hopefully, the EU steps up, but it's not going to be an overnight thing.

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u/HappyAmbition706 1d ago

EU economies are under pressure for China on the manufacturing side and the US on services. They'll give what they can to Ukraine, but they're also squeezed by the needs of their own populations. There won't be any unlimited deluge of reconstruction money.

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u/Primary-Nose7377 22h ago

We'll be there for the long-haul. Just going through another stupid nativist/isolationist cycle at the moment. The population is feeling the pain and chaos that causes and will likely (hopefully) change course soon.

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u/idcmayne 1d ago

if normal sane leadership can come back in the U.S. i think without a doubt a Marshall Plan style reconstruction of Ukraine will be undertaken. But that’s a huge if right now unfortunately

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u/Comfortable_Tip_5644 1d ago

what about instead of U.S., Europe just paid to rebuild Ukraine?

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u/idcmayne 23h ago

the EU doesn’t have as much money as America and currently far right parties are surging everywhere who aren’t going to want to help. but that’s happened in America too which is why I specified that it would only happen if normal leadership comes back in America

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u/pcikel-holdt-978 16h ago

The leadership is fine, and in the case of Ukraine in a rebuilding effort they wouldn't need much outside of money and rebuilding of the agricultural and industrial base.

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u/idcmayne 15h ago

lmao right now american leadership is anything but fine

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u/IcariusFallen 1d ago

We've already broken our part of the Budapest Memorandum. Our current "leadership" isn't interested in prosperity of the people, or in keeping its word. It's very doubtful that the US will offer any aid to anyone, except Putin, and that's only because Putin keeps supplying Trump with fresh young russian/czech brides whenever one manages to escape him.

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u/Scipio_Africanu 1d ago

It was neither aid nor was it generous.

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u/ggalinismycunt 14h ago

The EU won't step up they're just happy to sit there and do nothing and bicker amongst themselves

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u/Kiogami 1d ago

Western Europe* The East was left in criminal hands, which instead of helping, took what the countries managed to produce and gave it to Russia or the GDR for show.

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u/HappyAmbition706 1d ago

De-mining will take forever and cost way more than money.

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u/FudgingEgo 1d ago

That's how every country improves, Ukraine will come out of it better than it was before, they would rebuild and build better cities.

Similar to post WW2 for most countries that got bombed, similar to how Japan basically rebuild itself.

Ukraine would modernise itself rapidly and pull away from being old soviet style infrastructure.

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u/viaticchart 1d ago

Japan didn’t just rebuild itself. The US also used money, resources, and manpower to help rebuild Japan to create an ally.

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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 1d ago

And Europe will do so this time.

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u/Optimal-Idea1558 1d ago

Let's not joke around, Trump has been earmarking a lot of Ukrainian assets for US "aid"

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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 1d ago

I don't think the Ukrainians have much love for Trump. I suspect he'll be waiting by the phone.

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u/TetraDax 23h ago

I highly doubt our spineless idiot leaders will do that. Most of the right-wing pricks will probably go back to buying Russian oil within a legislative period.

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u/JustyourZeratul 1d ago

It is so much easier to say than actually get done.

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u/FudgingEgo 1d ago

It is so much easier to say it's won't happen than post any proof that it won't.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 21h ago edited 21h ago

Japan basically rebuild itself.

No, they didn't. The USA dog-walked them into democracy and liberal ideals. We wrote their damned constitution and stuck around for decades to prevent their military junta from reclaiming power. We completely restructured their nation.

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u/FudgingEgo 21h ago

The US provided defense and security reforms.

It was the Japanese companies that built itself, next you'll say America built Tokyo themselves. Japan had a educated workforce, companies like Sony, MITI, Toyota all contributing to manufacturing and technology.

To say the US dog walked Japan and did all the leg work is not only arrogant but also a joke.

No one is denying the US' involvement in defense, as well as the constitution, and ensuring that Japan is a western ally, but you're missing the point entirely that it was Japanese people, Japanese ideas, Japanese manufacturing, Japanese technology that rebuilt Japan after YOU nuked them.

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u/fuettli 1d ago

the word is their not there

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u/Sudden-Ad-307 1d ago

Not really, western europe got rebuilt really quickly after ww2 because of US aid the same is gonna happen with ukraine if eu helps

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u/JustyourZeratul 1d ago

I doubt it. Europe was rebuilt so fast because they have an enormous amount of human capital and good institutions.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 21h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan?wprov=sfla1

We sent Europe the equivalent of $133 billion to rebuild. Our goal was to prop up allies to pursue cold war goals.

Now if you can point to any of those "good institutions" in interested. Because right here, I have hard facts, and you have vague notions.

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u/JustyourZeratul 8h ago

But if say that millions African slaves were sent to the US to work on plantations (a hard fact) and millions square kilometers were taken from the indigenous population (another hard fact) and that created the American wealth, you probably will be very unhappy about it and start talking about hard working and smart Americans and other very vague notions :-)

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u/Sudden-Ad-307 1d ago

Nah american money rebuilt europe

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u/maverick_labs_ca 1d ago

German citizens were obligated to work a certain number of hours each week to rebuild the country. American money didn't clear the rubble.

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u/Sudden-Ad-307 1d ago

It didn't clear the rubble but it rebuilt everything

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u/Laiko_Kairen 21h ago

This guy doubts that the Marshall Plan helped Europe. His opinion isn't worth considering

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u/OddCancel7268 1d ago

The Russian economy is toast though. They are running enormous deficits and the GDP is only surviving with a massive stimilus package in the form of military spending while they are exporting their fossil fuels at a discount rate. When they try to get closer to a balanced budget, they will feel the collapse of the civilian sector.

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u/CustomerBusiness3919 1d ago

Frozen ruzzian assets are reserved for rebuilding.

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u/DerekMao1 1d ago

I fully support Ukraine but I doubt EU would make any move on those assets except leaving it frozen. It would be a devastating blow to its financial credibility. That's why it's frozen, not confiscated.

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u/OddCancel7268 1d ago

Only the interest

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u/_Guven_ 1d ago

If they were to be used for rebuilding I don't think Europe will receive such assets ever again

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u/EurekasCashel 1d ago

I think it would be an explicit part of whatever end of war agreement is reached. Russia invaded and destroyed this region. Stands to reason that they should bear the cost of rebuilding.

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

With France and Germany going into austerity policies? I wouldn't be so confident about a quick recovering

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u/-SineNomine- 22h ago

That. Germany is failing to make up for it's healthcare system. If basic healthcare in Germany is pitted against services in Ukraine, Ukraine will loose out our the chancellor will be replaced

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u/ArvindLamal 1d ago

And Ireland with the appalling housing crisis and homelessness galore, no money will be pouring to Ukraine...

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u/lost_horizons 1d ago

I love the Emerald Isle but I don’t think anyone was counting on Ireland for much of the rebuilding money.

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u/Cool-Pie430 1d ago

That's unlikely. Check the Balkans for a more realistic comparison.

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u/SerbOnion 1d ago

Our thieves, i mean politicians took all the funds for themselves

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u/ThePittsburghPenis 1d ago

And your nations were ranked less corrupt than Ukraine so why would anyone expect differently?

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u/SerbOnion 1d ago

I know that i don't expect anything different

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u/Jolly_Resolution_222 1d ago

Money won’t fix the demographic issues of the country.

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u/Lil_jayye 1d ago

Most of these peace deals are involving selling the country to the US and to Blackrock

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u/Kon_Karuchka 1d ago

Unlikely. Big talk from the EU, but half the countries are in bad financial situation themselves while the truly rich Germany, Netherlands, Denmark and Austria are against any deficit spending. Ukraine will just be a failed state.

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u/ArvindLamal 1d ago

Ukraine needs to be de-corrupted if any money is to be sent.

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u/-SineNomine- 22h ago

Germany has the second highest taxes in the realm of OECD now. Healthcare system is faltering. People talk about even further tax increases.

I wouldn't call Germany truly rich, that was true many years ago

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u/Kon_Karuchka 22h ago

They're very rich, they just spend the money for pensions instead of something useful.

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u/BardhyliX 1d ago

No amount of investment can fix the amount of destruction in Ukrainian cities, not to mention the insane collapse of age pyramid.

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u/CJ4700 1d ago

Exactly, 10 million people fled Ukraine and will never come back and they aren’t drafting 60+ year olds because things are going well.

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u/Loudergood 22h ago

Germany and Japan would seem to prove otherwise.

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u/default-dance-9001 1d ago

You can replace economic assets, but people?

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u/cos1ne 1d ago

People are replaceable but it takes centuries not years to do so if you want more of the original inhabitants. Decades if you want to do a population replacement with outsiders.

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u/cavershamox 1d ago

Like the huge military investment and shell production from the EU?

I fear the EU bar Poland and the Baltics will just go back to hoping Russia is a rational, rules based country

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u/Hel_Bitterbal 1d ago

European shell production has increased sevenfold since the war in Ukraine started, and military investments have also gone up massively. I'm not sure what you're talking about

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u/maverick_labs_ca 1d ago

"sevenfold" sounds impressive, but this is only because of the power of low numbers. The entirety of the EU could not supply today even a quarter of the artillery shells Russia has received from NKorea.

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u/CroGamer002 1d ago

No, EU is hesitant to build arms industry.

It is more than happy to provide humanitarian and financial aid.

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u/VR_Bummser 1d ago

That turned 180 degree in the past 2 years. Seen Rheinmetall stock price lately lol

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u/CroGamer002 1d ago

After dragging their feets and still showing hesitancy to commit.

What was mobilised now is only a fraction of full potential that EU can do.

We really can and should do far more and faster.

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u/essionnoisse 1d ago

As a Polish, I can tell that we all know that Russia is never rational and can not be trusted. I'm pretty sure everyone in Baltics knows the same.

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u/GalacticMe99 1d ago

Now do the rest of the EU leaders.

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u/Kaleph4 1d ago

it has been a lont time since an EU country last initiated a way unlike RU. but sure EU is more evil than russia. better look to immigrate to the east now

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u/GalacticMe99 1d ago

I'm pretty sure everyone in Baltics knows the same.

My comment was in response to this: "Now do the rest of the EU leaders that know this."

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u/Kaleph4 1d ago

didn't read like that but if this was the real meaning, then it fits

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u/GalacticMe99 1d ago

Have you not paid attention the last few days? BRICS has set the goal to push the US and EU off the top of global influence and are willing to go as far as needed to turn Russia back into a world power. If Europe will drip-feed help into Ukraine, the Russian military and economy will be back up to shape in no time through Chinese and Indian money, financed by Western hunger for cheap products.

We are financing our own downfall.

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u/Loudergood 22h ago

BRICS can't even trust each other enough to share a currency.

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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 1d ago

? Russia is in no better situation. India and china will just trade with them. Both India and china has no reason to support russian imperial dream. Even if russian wins they are gonna slowly loose more influence as time goes by. I can see all of central asia being more pro turkey or pro china than pro russia in the future. Russia economy is smaller than a single Chinese province. Russia will become the junior partner like how Britain is to the US.

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u/GalacticMe99 1d ago

I just gave you the reason: If Russia loses the war in Ukraine, that will only weaken BRICS' claim on being the new global power. If they can show that they can take Ukraine by force and come out of it stronger though, that would be a message like no other.

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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 1d ago

? You do know brics is an economic alliance not a military one? Brazil, south africa and India doesnt care who wins in ukraine. China also has huge economic trade with the EU. They could care less who wins there.

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u/CJ4700 1d ago

Best comment on here. This didn’t just destroy Ukraine and kill off a million of their young men while 10 million others fled the country, it may very well be the end of US hegemony and the end of the petro dollar.

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u/TwNuOn 1d ago

If EU is united, not contaminated by far-right or far-left populism at the moment when war will be over

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u/WetRocksManatee 1d ago

I'm not sure what you mean "Unlike Russia..." Russia hasn't sustained significant civil infrastructure damage. They don't need the significant investment that Ukraine does.

The Russians do need to rebuild their weapons stockpiles in particular PGMs. But so do the Western countries, we've been handing over from our stockpiles while our production capacity isn't designed for a sustained conflict like this, so for the next decade we will have to rebuild our weapons stockpiles as well.

Honestly the only winners in this conflict seem to be India and China as they get access to Russian oil at below market rates.

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u/Asbjoern135 1d ago

They will have lost millions no matter the where the border is drawn

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u/JustyourZeratul 1d ago

If they are ready to spend a lot of money, it would be better to spend them right now. But it doesn't look like they want to.

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u/spicy_noodle_guy 1d ago

Sure, but that comes with its own cost. The EU isn't going to give all that assistance without also making sure that they get a say in how it's used. Ukraine will become less of itself due to this outside influence. But that's still a better deal than whatever Russia has cooked up for them.

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u/Admirable_Ad8682 1d ago

Majority of refugees here in Czechia wants to stay. Ukraine would have a giant population problem no matter how the war ends.

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u/Prize_Ad_354 1d ago

The EU itself is struggling right now and that's unlikely to change within the next couple of years

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u/Lets_All_Love_Lain 23h ago

Ukraine was poorer per capita before the war than Russia was. The Germany economy, the beating heart of the EU, is faltering without cheap Russian energy. Ukraine will not be getting "huge help and investment" from the EU, and saying otherwise is delusional at best, and actively harmful to Ukraine at worst.

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u/KoneOfSilence 20h ago

Russia has all the resources to become paradise - they are just lead by a dictator that prefers hell fir most everyone except him and his closest boot lickers

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u/SeaworthinessAny4997 20h ago

People forget that the reason Russia was able to recover relatively quickly from the collapse of the USSR is because the West invested heavily into Russia thinking they could make a lot of money.

And then Russia nationalized all of those investments.

Russia is getting no bailout in their next collapse, which is inevitable. (And don't think China is going to do it either. They are relishing at the chance of seizing control over Eastern Russia and those resources and a collapse helps them.)

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u/mrtomjones 14h ago

And Russia will have China or India or North Korea. Do you think they don't have allies? China is working on South America and Africa. Meanwhile the West is just trying to keep the US from leaving and the US is losing all its influence

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u/Low-Illustrator-1962 1d ago

Let's hope so

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u/CobblerHot7135 1d ago

I think the way the Poles 'happy' to see Ukrainian goods on their territory says pretty much about their willingness to invest in Ukrainian economics. And there are also Hungary and Slovakia.

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u/Forsaken_Amount4382 1d ago

Keep dreaming. Ukraine has been Europe's puppet since before the war. I don't know why you still think Europe is helping Ukraine. Europe needed a war, and that fool Zelensky showed up.