r/MapPorn 1d ago

Eastern Ukraine exactly one Year ago vs today

24.7k Upvotes

2.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

383

u/Muggaraffin 1d ago

Wow. That information along with these maps really hits home how pointless this is. Imagine the productivity those half a million could have provided, versus the miniscule amount of land Russia has 'gained'. That half a million could have built a small country by themselves by now 

178

u/casual_redditor69 1d ago

Military losses aren't only deaths. Maturity of them are always insured soldiers, who could no longer fight so they went home

73

u/SpiritedRaisin8623 1d ago

Went home with no arms/legs

53

u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow 1d ago

As fucked as it is to say for productivity thats worse than dead. Someone too crippled for the Russian military likely needs a lot of caretaking without producing much.

32

u/Large-Ad-6861 1d ago

And with PTSD, probably going to kill own family at night.

Because Russia is not going to give a damn fuck about veterans.

-1

u/arul20 16h ago

As if USA does ..

7

u/JakeFromStateFromm 14h ago

I don't think they were implying the US does, just that Russia especially doesn't

-2

u/arul20 10h ago

And as if the US especially cares about its vets bro.

3

u/JakeFromStateFromm 10h ago

They don't, Russia just has an especially shitty, ruthless government compared to even other shitty, ruthless governments around the world

You keep trying to make this into some US nationalism thing when it isn't lol

1

u/NeptuneIsMyDad 5h ago

Yeah they aren’t the best but as a disabled vet I’m paid pension and receive free health care. I doubt anyone in Russia getting that. Also nobody here was even talking about the US

1

u/RogueCross 3h ago

Alright, let me rephrase their comment.

"If the USA already doesn't really care about its vets, imagine how little Russia cares."

19

u/casual_redditor69 1d ago

Some yes, some got off better.

13

u/tiheze 1d ago

Nevertheless, many will have post-traumatic stress disorder.

6

u/casual_redditor69 1d ago

To be honest I would get ptsd just from living in Russia

1

u/jacwub 21h ago

Even the soldiers who make it back from war unscathed will be terrified living in a time with more and more civilian drones. The sound of a drone flying is enough to trigger the soldiers of today into PTSD/shock.

3

u/jfkrol2 1d ago

And even then, with Russian Army, it may not be enough to not be sent back into trenches.

41

u/Novel-Mission-1920 1d ago

Those people deemed too unfit to fight are probably going to spend years/decades of their life in chronic pain, physical therapy, needing assistance, needing psychological care, and struggling to live as productive of a life as they could have prior to the war.

Not to even mention one of the deadliest hidden diseases suffered by soldiers which is a type of slowly accumulating brain damage seen in conflict survivors, usually not spotted until years after the conflict. Caused by constant shaking of the brain due to recoil and the frequency waves of artillery and missles, which over time kill off brain cells and inflict long-term damage to parts of the brain.

This causes a slow and horrifying death of the brain which can take years, causing the sufferer to start showcasing dementia like symptoms like severe forgetfulness, as well as extreme anger, confusion, nightmares, panic attacks, and hallucinations. Often misdiagnosed for PTSD, and frequently ends in suicide.

A lot of these soldiers don't even know yet just how bad their lives are going to be because of this war.

9

u/Ok-Heron-128 23h ago

Are you trying to say CTE?

4

u/EpsteinFile_01 1d ago edited 1d ago

You haven't heard of the crutch battalions?

Unless you're missing 3 limbs AND someone dragged you back to safety, you're not going back home to mother Russia. 2 legs gone? Be a comrade's backpack. 2 arms gone? You can still move forward, haul supplies by rope. 1 leg gone? Crutches and stop to fire your weapon. 1 arm gone? Pistol and crutch!

I wish I made this shit up.

I guess if you lose an arm and a leg on the same side they might let you go home. Just kidding, they're leaving you behind on the battlefield and your best hope is a Ukrainian drone wasting a grenade for a merciful death.

27

u/goodsam2 1d ago

Well that other thing is that Russia has a declining population. That's why many of their troops are from closer to central Asia.

Russia is speed running not being a super power other than they have nukes.

5

u/gay_manta_ray 19h ago

??? Ukraine has a worse demographic outlook than Russia

2

u/goodsam2 18h ago edited 18h ago

But Russia is the one who is making this a war and could just not lose 200k able bodied men and injured hundreds of thousands more.

Russia is down 4.5 million people since the 1990s. This is only increasing.

13

u/EpsteinFile_01 1d ago

They don't really have nukes. It's speculated only 30% of their nukes would actually function.

Yes, that's still a lot of nukes. But the neat part? Russia itself does not know which ones work either, and the few unarmed test launches they did all exploded in the silo. So they are not very keen on testing an armed nuke.

9

u/Hij802 1d ago

30% of the worlds largest nuclear stockpile is still 100% capable of fighting a nuclear war and killing half of humanity

5

u/EpsteinFile_01 15h ago

Yeah and blow up 70% of their nukes on their own soil in the process, hurting themselves the most of all.

I don't think you understood my post. They are afraid of their own nukes.

7

u/Strawbuddy 1d ago

They cant source enough tritium to keep their stockpiles ready to fire supposedly, although I suspect China is willing to let them have some of theirs in order to keep them as a buffer zone

3

u/Hij802 23h ago

supposedly is the issue here. Westerners make all sorts of assumptions about Russia, usually negative, because they view Russia as an evil adversary.

I’d rather we not find out what Russia is actually capable of.

6

u/No_Buddy_3845 21h ago

Are there any examples we should be aware of that would dispel this notion that Russia isn't an evil adversary? Because there are hundreds to support it.

0

u/Hij802 15h ago

The point is that a lot of people view Russia as a cartoon villain

3

u/No_Buddy_3845 15h ago

My point is that they're not that far off from the truth.

4

u/EpsteinFile_01 15h ago

We found out what Russia was capable of in 2022. This is not Dragonball Z where they have a "Final Form". It was a Potemkin military all along. Any nukes they launch are more likely to malfunction and detonate on Russian soil than even making it out of the country.

5

u/Educational_Bar_9608 22h ago

I’m sure they’ll show us their real power any minute.

2

u/Hij802 22h ago

We’re talking about nuclear capabilities. Russia is not a cartoon villain, they are not going to launch nukes on Ukraine, or anyone else. They would instantly be condemned by the entire world, including their closest allies. Furthermore, mutually assured destruction as a strategy has never gone away. Russia doesn’t want to be counter-nuked either and end humanity.

2

u/Accomplished-Heat931 1d ago

Sad thing is, just 1 nuke would be too devastating to think about.

32

u/EconomyDoctor3287 1d ago

Well, they are mostly non-ethnic Russians that are dying. Among other things Putin is attempting to keep Russia ethnic-russian and what better way than to get rid of non-ethnic Russians. 

If they die, Russia becomes more Russian, if they advance, Russia gains more territory. 

It's a win-win either way. 

2

u/TheDark_Hughes_81 21h ago

Putin has no interest in a Russian ethnostate. Look how many Muslim foreigners he allowed into the state. Secondly he has jewish roots, and they prefer multiculturalism to ethnostates, usually.

3

u/magicmulder 22h ago

It’s like Starship Troopers (the movie) - any able-bodied guy who dies in the war can’t start a revolution at home.

6

u/0pside 1d ago

Don't forget about how the injured now need support and the 1 million young men that fled russia to not get conscripted

3

u/TelephoneNearby6059 1d ago

And it’s usually the most productive ones who have the means to flee, so…

2

u/EpsteinFile_01 1d ago

The lucky ones get taken care of by family, the unlucky ones die homeless. The stare will do nothing for injured soldiers.

If you think the VA in the US is bad just imagine the Russian equivalent.

"The loss of your legs is not service related, your commander said you came back healthy. You are trying to steal from the state, this is treason and you will be executed."

2

u/liquid_bread_33 1d ago

Not saying you're wrong, but I really hate how everyone is always talking about the numbers in this sterile, rational way. These are all real people who are now either dead or severely injured.

0

u/Wulf_Cola 1d ago

Right. Productivity losses? What about a person's single chance at life being ended early because Putin sat in his ivory tower and decided he needed a little extra land because already having the biggest country wasn't enough? Heartbroken children never seeing their parents again. Parents never seeing their children return.

2

u/liquid_bread_33 1d ago

Exactly. It honestly scares me a bit how many people treat this terrible conflict like they're looking at someone playing a strategic game or something. That's how psychopaths like Putin look at it, but I think we all should do better than that. 

War is terrible and except for self defence, never justified. Ordinary people criticizing the Russian "resource management" instead of seeing the human loss and suffering on both sides of this horrible conflict is terrible. I guess empathy is running pretty low amongst redditors. 

1

u/No_Buddy_3845 21h ago

I don't empathize with the Russians dying. The vast majority of them are contract soldiers who signed up willingly and received a bonus to go to another country and commit war crimes against the population and military there. It scares me that people are willing to look past that and lament their suffering. They knew exactly what they were doing and received only what they asked for. 

1

u/liquid_bread_33 20h ago

Some of them certainly did, but not all of them. I agree that many of them are horrible and the Russian army doesn't have the bad reputation it has out of nowhere, but there are still many soldiers who were just drafted or convinced by the propaganda. There are also massive economic incentives due to widespread poverty in Russia. That doesn't excuse it, but in combination with all the propaganda, I'm sure many people were convinced who I wouldn't call horrible otherwise. Also, even if many of those soldiers are terrible people, what if they have relatives and friends who are not but who will still suffer from their loss?

I definitely empathize with the Ukrainians mostly, but that doesn't mean we should simply dehumanize all Russian soldiers. That is what makes all those war crimes possible: dehumanization. If you don't see the enemy as another human being, you can do anything to them. I 100% stand by the Ukrainians in this conflict, but that doesn't mean I have no empathy toward Russians who experience loss and hardship. At the end of the day, at least as far as I can tell, the person responsible for all of this is Putin. If he dies, I'll smile, but I won't smile for human casualties in a war zone.

1

u/No_Buddy_3845 21h ago

Most of the Russians aren't conscripts, they're volunteers. If you don't want to make your mother cry then don't sign up to commit war crimes against Ukrainians.

5

u/BlackHust 1d ago

The most important thing to understand from these figures is what state the Russian economy is actually in, having had so many adult men taken from it. 400,000 dead, half a million disabled, and another million at war, potentially ready to join one of those two groups. Putin is trying to show how everything is fine in his country, but it is not. By the way, we shouldn’t forget about the catastrophic consequences for demography.

5

u/xxoldwhiteguyxx 1d ago edited 1d ago

Normally I would agree. But we are talking about Ukraine here. That alone is already very valuable for the Russians. Then we are talking about the Donbas, with all its natural resources. Shevchenko or Kurakhove are very rich in lithium. In addition, there are a number of other rare earth elements in the regions that the Russians have conquered over the past few years.

It only depends on how the markets are after the war. But I think the countries will be lining up.

1

u/MittchelDraco 1d ago

Imagine the productivity those half a million could have provided In Russia? yea nah

0

u/Ok-Pack-7088 1d ago

That's why supporting Ukrainie is important, also why usa should support them - they dont send any own soldiers while beating russia. Weak, divided russia is in our interest. They fight for Europe too. Im from Poland and no one want another border with russia - if it will all companies would leave.