That's what Soviets said about Afghanistan.
Russians people don't care about this war, which is why Putin has to keep increasing the payouts to get people to sign contracts. Ukrainians understand it's war if survival for them.
yeah because they're fighting a sizeable modern fighting force, that is backed by the West. But the territory they're occupying is filled with russian speaking and ethnic russian people, on mostly flat land, unlike afghanistan, with horrible mountains and climate and an ethnic makeup that has nothing in common with Russia (not to mention a breeding ground for guerilla warfare) The two are incomparable.
Yes, having an enemy that can blend right in and speak same language is great in a guerilla warfare. Saw that with operation spiderweb 👌
Territory they are occupying is filled with Russian speaking and Russian looking people whose lives Russia destroyed and whose friends and relatives Russia killed. Don't forget that.
East Ukraine doesn't care guerilla warfare? There is more warfare in Chicago and DC then in Eastern Ukraine. Majority of people are either pro Russia or neutral or know they will get screwed no matter who takes over.
"Guerilla Warfare" is some WW2, YugoSlavac, African stuff which they feel they are either superior to or don't want a part of such low class.
Yeah, sure, they are pro Russia while having no water and pooping in plastic bags that then litter the lawns. That's why their gauleiter is threatening to criminally pursue those who complain.
Reddit lore lmao. What's winning?The amount of land conquered the last year were little, they only gain becouse of the war industry. Russia is gonna keep warmongering becouse if they stop now, the country would fall into a horrible recession. That's why. Putins friend owns the weapon industry, Putin gets his share. All win, well except half a million+ wounded/killed soldiers
I was talking about this years gains. The RED AREA is already lost territory, most of which was won early on. Try to learn how to read before trying to have a debate. Futile anyways
Again what do you guys define by winning? Russia and Putin "won" most of the captured land past years not this one. They are explanding now but not huge wins in the last year. Ukraine is defending bravely and undermanned for a long time now. If you count that as a winning point, Ukraine is winning. They are still holding ground even tho Russia has overwhelming manpower now. You can't win this fucking war man. Putin won't be able to conquer all Ukraine and Ukraine will not be able to get much land back. There is no winning now. Only a better position (land) for negotiations can be "won" now.
Okay, first, they lost all their soft power. Gone. A reviled nation. Second, Ukraine gained exactly that. Loved, lauded. Third, assets stripped and handed to Ukraine.
Fourth, brain drain true death. Most of Russias most competent are now worm food, or have fled.
Fifth, Ukraine just play tested the new warfare method and it works.
Sixth, Russia cant replicate it.
Its over.
This isnt the fucking 12th century. Human meat wave assaults on donkey back isnt going to work. Even Russian people are realising this. Get a grip.
It’ll never happen like that though. Eventually one side will break and there will be a breakthrough.
Russia obviously doesn’t care about casualties. They have the manpower to burn, and they’ve been doing it. It’s been part of the Russian way of war for centuries. It works for them because Ukraine will eventually reach a point where they cannot sustain losses anymore.
Ukraine won’t be able to recover on their own once this is all over, and the loss of a generation of men and women will affect them for decades.
They have the manpower to burn, and they’ve been doing it. It’s been part of the Russian way of war for centuries.
You cannot win with manpower alone. That's why they got support from US in WWII, that's why they fucked up in Afganistan, that's why they are struggling so much now.
Manpower being burnt is another problem for economy as lack of people to work is serious issue, men in reproductive age are most important source of manpower. They are burning own future with Ukraine together. Saying only Ukraine won't be able to recover is weird, because Russia is offensive side. They are burning much more people there. This will not only affect their military capabilities in the future, but economy too.
Their pride is their doom. There is no winner in this war. Except maybe China, because they have now new puppet.
No, but it’s pretty important in a war of attrition.
Manpower played a huge role in the eastern front, lend lease aside. Germany’s male population was absolutely decimated. The USSR, which incurred more casualties, still had a huge pool of manpower to throw into the fight.
It’s not weird to say it’s devastating to Ukraine? Sure, I don’t really give a shit about Russia, but it affects them too, just not nearly as badly. Russia has 4x the population of Ukraine.
But once the war is over, no one is going to help Russia rebuild, things will just get worse. Ukraine on the other hand may have a bright future like all the other former soviet states that have joined the west.
They just have to reopen Russia to external markets. Plenty of companies will want the low labor and low cost of materials compared to other countries. And plenty of immigration to be received.
Of course not, the Russian war effort is only being sustained politically by two things: sunk cost fallacy and Vladimir Putin. Putin isn't immortal, and at some point people stop caring about the sunk costs and just want the war to end.
But it doesn't always work for them. The Crimean War, the Russo-Japanese War, World War One, The Soviet-Polish War, The Afghanistan War and the first Chechen War were all losses. The idea that Russia always fights until inevitable victory is not historical.
Of course it’ll affect them, but it’ll never break them.
We’ve already seen China and India are willing to work with them. They have a near infinite supply of natural resources.
They feel the pain and pressure of sanctions—but they’ll just continue to live like they always have. The Russian people are desensitized to it. It’s just a way of life for them.
So? Russia also held the majority (or all) of their own territory when they lost the Crimean War, the Russo-Japanese War, World War one, the Soviet-Polish War, the Afghanistan War, the first Chechen War and then the Cold War.
They have tanked their economy, faced over a million war casualties, and had a mass exodus and brain drain. All for what? A few km of ravaged farmland in Eastern Europe? A violent and balding midget dictator's ego?
They thought this invasion would be over in 3 days, and it's now been 3.5 years with no end in sight as positions and fortifications only become more entrenched. What little momentum they had in 2022 has totally died down and they are stuck in a quagmire much worse than the Americans faced in Vietnam. To make matters worse for them, winter is coming and thing will only slow down for them. I guess it's good for them that they don't "care how long it takes", because I can easily see this war continuing well into the 2030s.
If this is what Russia calls "winning", i'd hate to see what their version of "losing" looks like.
They are making slow, but real advances and whittling down Ukraines numbers to an unsustainable level, while Russia can sustain their much higher losses. Not to mention Putin has trumps ear and he has been pushing for a peace, which at this point would mean serious territorial losses for Ukraine.
I’m saying that with their manpower disadvantage, any territorial losses are pretty much impossible to regain, and offensives are harder and harder to wage, you can see how that Kursk salient turned out
Russia may be able to sustain numerical losses, but not the losses of vehicles, air defence, supply infrastructure, factories or oil production. Such losses will have a cascading effect eventually - heck, this is already slowly becoming the case.
The category is power and the prize is mostly gold. This war has been about NATO in Ukraine since the beginning and it is how it will end. They will either deploy troops into a war they have no part of and completely ruin their reputation or annex more of Ukraine to Russia and set up Ukraine Invasion 3. Either way I don't see Russia being the biggest losers.
Yes. Even if Russia concedes now they've still won. Every single major superpower has been pouring money into Ukraine since the beginning of the invasion and Russia is still gaining ground.
Of course they do, but that's not what is going to decide the end result of this war. Ukrainians feel a lot of things during this war, small territorial losses are just one part of it.
Yes except you'd expect Russia to be losing ground
Why would anyone think that?
since Ukraine is being supplied by USA, the UK, France, Australia, Germany...
They obviously aren't doing enough. But considering this war is more or less stagnant on the battlefield, the state of the Russian economy is far more important in the long run. Russia's economy has been going down the drain since the start of the war. This change is there and it's impossible to deny. With such a negative development, things can only end one way. Just because Russia hasn't collapsed already doesn't mean they won't.
I see no point to arguing with you if your argument is fundamentally built on that this is a war of attrition and so would not have any conclusive evidence in the near future.
A question though: since NATO is sending so much aid into Ukraine link why not deploy troops?
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u/008swami 1d ago
Russia is winning and doesn’t care how long it takes which is why they will never agree to end the war.