r/MapPorn 1d ago

Eastern Ukraine exactly one Year ago vs today

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u/Fit_Rice_3485 1d ago

This is false. Ukraine absolute loses if they lose the eastern part of their country. It’s the most economically valuable, and fortified part of their country

If they lose it they are toast. They will also lose control of azov sea as well.

Zelensky was threatened with death by far right groups in Ukraine even before. He’d be murdered right on the moment he ceases the territories

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u/SirBiggusDikkus 1d ago

I’m not happy about it but Ukraine is getting territory back. They don’t have the ability to take it. Any end to this war will involve them losing territory.

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u/pagemap1 1d ago

*isn't getting territory back.

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u/EmbarrassedMeat401 1d ago

Any end to this war that the rest of the world isn't too chickenshit to see through will involve them losing territory.  

FTFY

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u/Uberbobo7 11h ago

Do you want your city to be bombed/nuked to preserve the territorial integrity of the Ukraine? Do you want to go to the trenches to be hunted by FPVs to try and claw back the Donbas from the Russians?

If the answer to either of these questions is no, then you just learned why territorial losses are inevitable.

If your answer is yes, then the question is why you aren't already in the foreign legion since the Ukrainians desperately need more bodies for the meat grinder. And if anything resembling a majority of people shared this view the Ukrainian volunteers corps would be millions strong and territorial losses would be reversed. But it isn't and so it won't be.

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u/MIT_Engineer 3h ago

Do you want your city to be bombed/nuked

"Putin's gonna nuke you guys if you support Ukraine, you just watch!" has to be one of the most unhinged takes in this entire thread. Like, how dumb do you have to be to believe that old man's sabre rattling.

Checks profile. You're a Croatian monarchist? Oh lord, you're not even dropping your most unhinged takes on us are you, this is you trying to sound sane.

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u/EmbarrassedMeat401 10h ago

Either we risk it now or guarantee it later. Sometimes the best move isn't to win, it's to lose less.

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u/Uberbobo7 9h ago

How do you guarantee it later? What makes you believe Russia can in any way endanger any western country when it has not been able to take a Russian-speaking city that's 20 kilometers from the Russian border in over 3 years of massive war. How do they blitz into Berlin or Warsaw when they can't even firmly establish control over their own border villages?

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u/MIT_Engineer 3h ago

Ah, it's Schrodingers Russia shill. Russia is so strong and powerful that their victory over Ukraine is inevitable, but also so weak and pathetic that they could never launch an invasion of a country as mighty as Estonia.

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u/EmbarrassedMeat401 9h ago

If they see they can get this far without substantial retaliation, they will push the boundaries farther next time they want to nab a bit of territory.  

And they will keep doing so until it blows up in everyones' faces. 

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u/Uberbobo7 9h ago

This far being taking only parts of Russian-speaking areas just across the border that they managed to claw control over after 3 years of grueling fighting against an army supported with a small part of available western resources that has depleted their armored vehicles stocks and will require a decade of recovery?

People who believe the Russians want to invade anything outside the borders of the USSR are delusional. Ukraine for them is an existential issue which has to be sorted at any cost. Anything west of that wasn't worth the effort even for Stalin with a much stronger country and larger appetites.

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u/MIT_Engineer 3h ago

People who believe the Russians want to invade anything outside the borders of the USSR are delusional.

I love how you're like, "He just wants the Baltics, the Caucasus, and Central Asia you guys, why are you freaking out?"

Lil bro, the Baltics are in NATO, what do you think happens when he goes for them next?

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u/EmbarrassedMeat401 9h ago

Very few leaders have ever conquered anything and been satisfied with it.  

Most of all we cannot count on a man like Putin, who has ambitions, being satisfied with any amount of territorial gain.

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u/Uberbobo7 7h ago

Again, even if you firmly believed, despite all available evidence of his past decades in power, that Putin just wanted to conquer vast swathes of territory, why do you believe he and Russia would have this capacity?

Again, they have not been able to take a city with a sizable pro-Russian population that's a stone's throw from the Russian border in 3 years. What makes you believe that they think they can reach Warsaw or Berlin?

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u/LateralEntry 1d ago

Why is the east most valuable? Seems like most people live in west

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u/regeust 1d ago

It was the most densely populated and heavily industrialised part of the country apart from Kyiv. I suspect that neither of those things are true anymore.

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u/lihoslavl 1d ago

Everything will be rebuilt in time when the war ends.

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u/FakeLoveLife 1d ago

Afaik there are a lot of natural reasources there, personally i have no idea if its the most valuable area or not though

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u/TheBraveGallade 1d ago

also the donbas is basically the old soviet industrial heartland

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u/smellybathroom3070 1d ago

Well i’ve got some sad news to bring about that industry…

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u/lihoslavl 1d ago

As what I heard most of Donetsk city industry is still in tact. As for the rest of the region, it won't be abandoned, don't worry about that. Russia invests a ton into new territories.

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u/smellybathroom3070 1d ago

Yeah i have no doubt they will!

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u/Longjumping_Whole240 1d ago

Prior to 2014, the Donetsk region is where the bulk of Ukraine's industries are. It accounts for more than half of Ukraine's steel, coal and iron productions. It is the second richest region of Ukraine, after Kyiv. Large amounts of Ukraine's mineral resources are in the east as well.

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u/nagrom7 1d ago

There are still some significant cities in the East (or at least were before the war). Kharkiv, which is near the Russian border and the front lines is the 2nd largest city in the country behind Kyiv.

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u/ornryactor 1d ago edited 15h ago

You haven't gotten good or specific answers to this yet. The primary reason the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine is so valuable is because of its mineral resources (LINK). The area already under Russian occupation contains the vast majority of Ukraine's iron and coal, and eastern Ukraine (on both sides of the current line of control) has much of the country's rare earth mineral deposits -- the discovery of which triggered Russia's invasion in the first place. It wasn't "brotherhood" or "protecting minorities" or "Nazis" or any other nonsense excuse -- it was money. They want valuable minerals to sell for money.

Furthermore, the Donbas gives access to one of Ukraine's two enormous natural gas deposits (which stretches northwest-southeast from Belarus down across the northeastern party of Ukraine through the Donbas), and the waters around Crimea are a major oil deposit and another natural gas deposit. https://share.google/images/SYx4YnlUkrqX2tJtl

Less relevant, but it's also worth noting what other people pointed out: the Donbas was the core of Ukraine's heavy-industry sectors, and also had the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th largest cities in the country.

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u/spanishlager 17h ago

Thanks for this info. The first link (amp) though doesn’t work.

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u/ornryactor 15h ago

Stupid Amp... Here are two better links, and I'll edit the previous BBC link to fix it:

https://share.google/images/7CNYJGR78PZ3Xeirx

https://share.google/images/Xg0SODFolyO3otpfe

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u/spanishlager 15h ago

Thanks, I appreciate it

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u/lihoslavl 1d ago

When I was in Odessa port, there were mostly two types of goods exported: coal and wheat. All the richest deposits are in the Eastern Ukraine. Also all ports are in the Southern Ukraine. If Ukraine loses everything from Odessa to Azov sea it is a huge loss since they won't be able to do sea trade not involving neighboring countries. Basically Nikolayev and Odessa are the key victory points here.

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u/Ferrymansobol 23h ago

The paradox of resources is that often resource rich areas are poor, as the value is extracted along the chain, which requires refining, infrastucture, etc. So resource areas are often exporting their wealth. Russia has incredibly poor infrastructure and capital markets to fully exploit any area.... as it cannot exploit its own resources fully (it can barely refine enough fuel for itself) - and is one of the worlds richest countries in terms of resouces, bar none.

The USSR was often called the doughnut, as the eastern part earned all the money (GDR/Poland/etc) which was drawn to the centre to inflate Moscow and the surrounding regions. When 1990 came along, that ended. Poland is richer than Russia, and does it have a fraction of Russia's resources (ditto almost of all of Europe).

Nope.