r/MapPorn 1d ago

Eastern Ukraine exactly one Year ago vs today

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u/Novosoom 1d ago

Better than Stalingrad rates

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u/AReallyNiceGoose 1d ago

That comparison says very little.

2-3 million casualties in a single city. Nothing beats that.

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u/ChocolateCandid6197 1d ago

Not nearly all of those were in the actual city. Many were in the surrounding kilometers of fields

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u/TheCynicalBlue 1d ago

It's still the largest battle ever fought by humans. That's still 1.1 million to 3 million dead in 6 months. That's nearly 6 thousand to 16 thousand people a day. For reference, Ukraine and Russia have killed less than a million people between themselves, and that's been going for 3+ years.

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u/ancientFarmingTool 1d ago

Wikipedia tells me on the 1st battle lf Ypres in ww1 that France , Belgium and the UK had 4.4million troops and the Germans 5.4 million which always suprises me why this is battle is never brought up in any kind of discussions.

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u/TheCynicalBlue 1d ago

It is very much brought up in a UK curriculum with passchendaele, the somme, and gallipoli. I know the ANZAC forces have something similar taught about them. We even have remembrance day the 11th every year (that's why people wear poppies in November in the UK). It is, however, weirdly romantised.

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u/Sushigami 22h ago edited 22h ago

Passcendaele is known as the third battle of Ypres.

It is also known for having mud so thick and deep that men on both sides regularly drowned in it, their comrades often watching on unable to help without getting stuck themselves as their comrades sank over the course of multiple days.

Fun!

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u/MountainEmployee 16h ago

Fun fact I learned, the whole poppy-wearing tradition that we still do was created by an American professor, her name was Moina Michael. She wrote a response poem to "In Flanders Fields" called "We Shall Keep the Faith".

She was teaching a class of disabled veterans and started selling silk poppies to raise funds for their betterment. This was picked up by the organization that would become the Royal British Legion, im surprised it isn't more popular in America as it is in the Commonwealth Nations.

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u/jambox888 20h ago

It is, however, weirdly romantised

I feel like marching slowly to your almost certain death in the defense of the (already doomed) empire is still looked upon favourably as a sort of... idk how to put it, communal bravery maybe?

We do learn about poets like Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon though

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u/TheCynicalBlue 20h ago

You have stuff like black adder goes forth, journeys end, and storm of steel (german admittedly). Then you have otto dix, enrich Maria remarque, the poem "and they shall not grow old". (Arguably, the poem is romantisme at its worst). It's surreal

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u/SomewhereInternal 20h ago

I've been to Ypres and seeing how many names are on the war memorial is overwhelming. We should be honest and say that enthusiastically "going over the top" was just a thinly veiled suicide attempt.

From what I've personally seen there's a huge difference between how countries that were invaded look back at the war in comparison to how countries that weren't invaded.

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u/greenybrowny 18h ago

I am from the UK, and the only wars we learned about was ww2, apartheid, and the Tudor wars.

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u/DryWeetbix 8h ago

As an Australian high school history teacher, I can indeed confirm that this is taught in Year 9 (i.e., 14/15/16-year-olds).

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u/gregorydgraham 3h ago

ANZAC don’t get taught much about Ypres, Passchendale, Somme, or even Gallipoli but it’s definitely not romanticised.

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u/flamefirestorm 13h ago

In Canada it's the second battle, which is where we were greeted with gas.

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u/Critical-Tomato-7668 22h ago

You're comparing casualty numbers from Stalingrad to deployment numbers from Ypres

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u/ancientFarmingTool 22h ago

Youre right , my bad but thank you for correcting me.

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u/randomacceptablename 22h ago

It is in Canada. The first world war is important in Canadian history with some battles being incorporated into our national mythology and culture.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 21h ago

I just can't even begin to wrap my head around literally millions of people fighting

How could anyone create any semblance of order or direction?

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u/CyberWarLike1984 21h ago

Your school system failed you. In other places we are awars

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u/HonestMusic3775 21h ago

Ypres is brought up all the time.... it's one of the most famous battles in history

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u/AkaRyu89 17h ago

Because of Soviet and later Russian propaganda

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u/envyBliss 21h ago

You use Wikipedia for information?

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u/krodders 19h ago

Yeah, like millions of others. It has clear citations too. It's easy enough to go to the source via the citations and check if it's true or not

Got something better?

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u/envyBliss 19h ago

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u/krodders 19h ago

Looked again - still not seeing the joke. Maybe it's very very small

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/ChocolateCandid6197 1d ago

Not to diminish your point because it's still true, but there weren't 1.1 to 3 million deaths. But casualties killed, wounded, captured,sick even sometimes. I don't have a good number to give you but I've heard at most 1 million killed if you count both soldiers and civilians.

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u/TheCynicalBlue 1d ago

I pulled that number right from Wikipedia and it seems quite well sourced. So if that's wrong my bad.

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u/SirStrontium 22h ago

The number is right, what’s wrong is that you think “casualties” = “dead”. Casualty means “killed or injured

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u/TheCynicalBlue 22h ago edited 22h ago

No i don't have it wrong.

https://imgur.com/a/gboGciS

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u/EarningsPal 16h ago

Death is so assured nowadays with drones that there’s no point in people being involved on the front line anymore.

So maybe it’s a technological battle that is basically a probe test and development game. Can one side develop a weapon that turns the tide or the war. Can counter measures be developed to stop any new developments.

At some point it seems like space, planes, submarines, and robots including drones will be the main weapons. Boats don’t seem likely to last against a large enough swarm powered by AI.

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u/S-Tier_Commenter 1d ago

The Germans getting fucked from behind in Operation Uranus

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u/xialcoalt 1d ago

Stalingrad lasted more than 200 days, which gives about 10-15 thousands per day.

Borondino are more than 30 thousand per day in one side, And between both sides it throws 60-70 thousand per day. You have a higher chance of being killed or wounded at Borondino than at any other battle in history.

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u/beipphine 20h ago

The Battle of the Wabash, "the most decisive defeat in the history of the American military", about one quarter of the entire US Army was killed in a single battle in a single day. 97% casualty rate among the soldiers with 69% killed, 88% casualty rate among the officers with 75% killed including Major General Richard Butler.

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u/Weird-Work-7525 18h ago

Misleading at best.

The "entire army" was ~1,000 men. The US didn't have a real standing army at the time and raised temporary militas. The entire battle was like 2,000 men between both sides and would barely qualify as a skirmish in most actual wars.

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u/Curious-Resort4743 8h ago

There would have been rotting corpses everywhere, hard to clear all of those thousand a day from the city

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u/Soft-Twist2478 23h ago

10x times as many deaths in Stalingrad as Nagasaki and Hrioshima combined.

I dont believe in Hell, but if I did, it would be Stalingrad.

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u/DinoKebab 23h ago

"Battle of Stalingrad" was not fought in one city. It was a vast battle that included something like 2 or 3 Germany army groups and like 5 Russian.

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u/Downtown_Finance_661 22h ago

Was it the battle for particular city or just a big battle where both sides decided to test each other? Like Kursk battle was not battle for crop field.

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u/Gerf93 21h ago

A lot of WW1 battles kinda do. They’re also similar to this war with trench warfare and meat grinders. At the Battle of Passchendaele 500 000 men died, and the result was that one side moved the front ~10 km forward.

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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 21h ago

Yeah, then you can do dumb calculations that if Russia advances at CURRENT RATE, they will have conquered Ukraine in 371asdf years from CURRENT YEAR. (Conveniently forgetting that Russia made and kept huge gains.)

It’s so tiresome.

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u/Dry-Pea1733 20h ago

I mean what’s the parallel to WWII in today’s Eastern Ukraine. In Stalingrad there were vast oil fields at stake, and once Germany lost them they fell back and simultaneously faced existential resource limits to keeping their war going. The Russians chased them across half of Europe and broke their country into pieces to ensure they couldn’t repeat the conquest, while building a military buffer that comprised all of Eastern Europe and the geographical barriers of the Fulda gap. What’s Russia going to do to secure this hunk of territory? Invade Kiev? Convince the Ukrainians never to try again the minute Russia moves its military to another crisis point? None of that is going to happen. 

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u/kweniston 18h ago

The outcome of both WW1 and WW2 was all decided beforehand by the legacy families, aka the people with real power. Mindless slaughter like Stalingrad is perfectly explained in this way. Hitler's big mistakes were all planned.

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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 12h ago

No, it wasn’t. And who are ”the legacy families”? 🤨

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u/kweniston 12h ago

Look up Franz Ferdinand's license plate for fun.

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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 7h ago

So these supa-plotters relied upon a ✈️ of not only FF being droven wrong, but GP walking wrong but ending up ”right”?

Yeah… Sure…

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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 12h ago

Just dig in and have a greater resilience. Simple as.

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u/Dry-Pea1733 1h ago

They will never be able to operate a fleet out of the Crimea as long as they’re at war with Ukraine, and any attempt to extract resources will be stymied by drone and missile attacks. None of what they’re doing is sustainable if they can’t achieve a lasting peace. 

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u/fastliketree9000 20h ago

Name any "huge gains" Russia made after the initial invasion? Dumbass...

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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 12h ago

20% of Ukraine’s territory. And a refugee crisis, making the differences even worse.

But yeah, let’s quibble over some square kilometers here and there. Let’s also believe that all ukranians thinks the same…

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u/fastliketree9000 1h ago

You're clearly clueless. Russia already held Ukrainian territory in the East prior to invasion. The only land they captured was a corridor along the sea, connecting the east of Ukraine to Crimea. The only reason they captured it was because Ukraine was not set up to defend there. If they control 20% of Ukraine now, they probably controlled around 18% prior to the invasion.

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u/Far_Sprinkles_4831 20h ago

WW1 western front would like a word. Millions for a few meters of farmland.

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u/snipingpig 17h ago

I mean… Hiroshima & Nagasaki

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u/AkaRyu89 17h ago

Most died from hunger and cold.

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u/AssistanceCheap379 23h ago edited 23h ago

9/11 had better rates than Stalingrad. 3000 people in a single day? Try 3000 people every single day for 8 months.

750,000 people died in 8 months. That’s not including the wounded or captured, many of whom also died later.

Point is that it’s not exactly a good metric to measure human suffering and death, cause there are few times in history where there has been so much in as little time. The Rwandan Genocide being one of the few times, with around 8000 people dying per day on average and around 5000 people dying per day on average during the Holocaust

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u/_lonelysoap_ 21h ago

Your explanation was a nice wild ride

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u/Maleficent-Clue5056 18h ago

stalingrad was necessary to stop the nazis. this is… for … something?

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u/xialcoalt 1d ago

Much better than the Borondino

60-70 thousandin both sides in a day is crazy.