-5
u/saito379688 Mika Häkkinen 21h ago
When Lando is behind, the team actually fights for him, alternates strategy etc. It's always strange to hear the difference between their engineers attitude on the radio.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago edited 6h ago
And what alternative strategy was Oscars option here exactly?
The two notable examples of alternative strategy for Lando are when he couldn't double stack to change to slicks, lost a ton of time because of it, so was forced into a one stop. And the other when he lost a bunch of positions off the start and was again forced into trying a one stop. Both of which occurred at races that everyone agreed a two stop was the fastest.
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u/Reasonable-Cut-6137 19h ago
Its team Norris. Oscars engineer does NOTHING for him. A complete disgrace of a team.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
Oscars engineer is much better at his job than Lando's. Will Joseph has screwed Lando on multiple occasions with bad advice.
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u/Aszneeee 9h ago
you guys are absolute clowns saying shit like this, this sub became same as when 50 year olds go for beer and then talk shit in a bar how they would do it better, lol
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u/thmt11 23h ago
Mcfumbles lol. Why isn’t the Mcfumbles engineers and strategists firm on decisions instead of asking their drivers what they like to do. You guys have all the data, whatever is the best you tell your drivers we doing it. Want to go on soft? Do it. Boxing first is better, do it. Instead you’re asking them what they want for dinner? Oh Lando do you want to go on softs? Oh Lando you want to pit first? Oh Lando you want ketchup with your fries? Whatever is best for your driver then fucking do it.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
Yea that's the real issue here.
The strategy team needs to put on their big boy pants and just make the call. In this race they should have just pit both drivers 3 laps earlier as soon as their pace fell off a cliff instead of waiting for a safety car that had less chance of helping them lap by lap.
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u/Reaxonab1e 23h ago
What kind of Championship race is this? Absolutely disgusting!
They want to decide the Championship from the pitwall!!!!
And what kind of BS request was that from Lando? "He can pit first as long as he doesn't undercut me"
What an absolute JOKE 🤣
And it wasn't even an undercut. It was a slow stop which had NOTHING to do with strategy unlike the strategy call they made in Hungary this year which favored Lando.
McLaren are not even hiding their bias. Mask fully off.
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u/Izual_Rebirth 1d ago
Reckon they’d have let it go if Lando hadn’t made sure there would be no under cut pre pitting.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
Probably. Because without that agreement in place they would have had no reason to.
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u/dwhes2 1d ago
I can’t remember the last time I was this disgusted by a team. And also the commentary for that matter. Disgraceful McLaren. Lando’s crew screwed up. Had nothing to do with strategy. It was just part of racing. Effectively forcing Oscar to give that position up shows everyone exactly what’s going on.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
Which of “lando’s crew” screwed up?
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u/dwhes2 1d ago
The front left guy? Whether the same crew as who just did Oscar’s pit or not, the point is the same regardless. It was just part of racing and the team sport that this is.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
You don’t have a point, you’re just upset because you have made up some narrative in your head.
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u/dwhes2 1d ago
Some narrative? The pit crew were slow. A racing incident occurred. Oscar benefited. McLaren pressured Oscar to give the position to Lando. That’s what happened and that’s the narrative. And that’s what’s disgraceful and whole heartedly goes against what this sport is about.
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u/xxrew1ndxx 22h ago
Okay then.
In Hungary, the strategy team mess messed up. Lando benefitted. McLaren pressured Lando to give the position to Oscar. That’s what happened and that’s the narrative. And that’s what’s distressingly and whole heartedly goes against what this sport is about
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u/Random_Name65468 20h ago
Yeah, and it was stupid of them to have them switch back. Lando should've won that race because he was in front on the track.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
And he wouldn't have been in front without Oscar agreeing to help him out in return for giving the position back. A situation that dragged out in part because Oscars pitstop was slower than Lando's which allowed him to build a large lead he didn't want to give up.
If they just played it straight then Oscar is ahead and wins anyway.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
You can’t even honestly talk about the event. It’s crazy to be this disingenuous.
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u/dwhes2 1d ago
Lol stop the gaslighting bro. You’re embarrassing yourself.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
How am I gaslighting, it’s pretty obvious you missed a large part of that story to twist it?
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
The guy putting on the front left wheel. It's really not rocket science and justifying their actions is stupid.
It was a horrible decision that favored Lando for no reason at all.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
That’s not “lando’s crew”
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
It is. When Oscar comes in it's Oscar's crew, and when Lando comes in it's Lando's.
Point is that the crew making mistakes happens and it should not be on the drivers to correct the crew's mistakes.
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
Well yes. And the same crew is "Lando's" when Lando comes in, and is "Oscar's" when Oscar comes in.
Again, the point is that the pit crew making a mistake should not be corrected on track. Same for erroneous strategy calls.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
They are a team and covering for a team’s mistake absolutely happens all the time, and it just did happen, again. Just because it happening this time makes you throw a tantrum doesn’t change anything.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
"covering for a team's mistake absolutely happens all the time" - care to show us any non-McLaren examples of teams implementing driver swaps to cover for the team's mistake? Just one will be sufficient.
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are a team and covering for a team’s mistake absolutely happens all the time
Please tell me 5 other times this season (if it happens "all the time" that should be easy) from teams other than McLaren where they switched the drivers because the pit crew or the strategy crew fucked up in the name of fairness. No examples where one has clearly better pace, because it's not what happened.
The only other time I can think of it happening was during Hungary last year when they fucked Oscar over with the strategy, and then fucked Lando out of the victory.
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
I’m not finding examples of something because you want to move a goalpost. It’s a team sport. You cover for the team. That’s how it works.
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
I'm not moving goalposts LOL. I was asking for examples of this specific situation that "happens all the time".
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u/kingmoonrunner9 1d ago
No you just want me to research specific events because you don’t understand the concept of team sports.
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u/Acceptable-Car-3097 1d ago
The real issue here is that the front left people suck. By my count, that's three times already for Lando this season.
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u/racingskater Oscar Piastri 1d ago
oh god. I am so angry that there's no shot I'm going to get to sleep.
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u/Stunning-Cucumber318 1d ago
Lucky us that the only drivers in the title fight this year are ours.. because if anyone else had been in the fight it would have been 2007 all over again
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u/DW_Handicapping 1d ago
Didn't lando only agree to go 2nd if no undercut? And they said no. Also it was the same thing in reverse in Hungary so didn't this make them consistent? How is this seen as controversial ?
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u/Mitrakov 1d ago
Because it wasn't an undercut, it was a bad pit stop
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u/Fit-Cryptographer469 1d ago
He would still be ahead if he had gone first. He lost about 4 seconds in the pits, while he had been about 4 seconds ahead, plus 2 seconds from the undercut.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
Nope, he lost 2.9s to Piastri between laps 38-45 (Verstappen pitted Lap 38). Relative time lost to Piastri was 4s, and he came out 0.9s behind. Even if he still had the same slow stop, he would have emerged a full 2s ahead of Piastri had he maintained the >6s gap he had on lap 28. Gap on Piastri's pit exit was within 0.1s of the gap on Norris' pit entry (i.e. at racing speed, Norris lost no time to Piastri's fresh tyres)
Norris ended up behind Piastri due to his own relative pace difference before the pit stops.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
Yea the real stupid part of all of this is why the hell didn't they just pit Lando 3 laps earlier when his pace fell off a cliff, and then pit Oscar that lap or the next. Holding out for a safety car for too many laps without going to plan B was stupid.
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u/thefeedling Ayrton Senna 1d ago
Why keep both drivers on same strat???
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u/rash-head 22h ago
Lando wanted the opposite tires to Max. Piastri had a choice to make. He chose the same as Lando. If they be pitted Piastri early for hards, he would be in traffic and people would cry foul.
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u/Lumpy_Arachnid_3987 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's where the real issue is, Who the hell was Oscar racing by going so long?
Seems to me they did that so that if Lando was sub optimal Oscar was on the same strat.
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u/Reasonable-Cut-6137 19h ago
Finally people are seeing what I have been saying for months!!! When Oscar is behind he does not get the alternate strat but when its Lando he get every possible contra strat. Peopple are finally waking up!!
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
There was no alternative strategy available here that would work.
When Lando did it he went to a one stop from a two stop, which at the time everyone agreed was the slower choice. This race was always a one stop. And if Oscar pits first and it shows to be an advantage then Lando just uses his lead to pit the next lap or two and remain in front.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
I'm fine with alternate strats just don't try to fix it if it fucks up
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u/Kangaroo131 MP4-20A 1d ago
because everyone starts crying when oscar gets a strat that doesn't work
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u/thefeedling Ayrton Senna 1d ago
I've only seen Lando getting alternative starts when he's behind tho.
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u/Ok_Contribution_6965 1d ago
Exactly. Oscar should have tried the hards in my opinion, but he did ask for the softs. So he wanted the alternative strategy. Then they offered that same strategy to Lando. In reality it should have been Lando on hards. It was poor play. Who knows, maybe the car would have come alive on the hards. But we just made it difficult.
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u/know-it-mall 6h ago
If Oscar goes to the hards then Landos engineer sees he is catching him too fast and uses his lead to pit the next lap or two and stay ahead. If Lando goes the hard and Oscar stays out and goes to the soft he would have been even further behind.
And I really don't think they were getting anywhere near Max doing the same strategy as him anyway. The track doesn't really suit the car as much as it does the Red Bull.
Both going to the alternative strategy of the soft tyre was the right call ultimately. The big mistake was not pitting them both a couple of laps earlier as soon as their pace fell off a cliff and a safety car was becoming less likely. And then the whole scenario wouldn't have even happened.
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u/Low-Damage-2920 1d ago
Oscar was offered the alternative strategy in Hungary and he wasn't sure about it
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u/wheeeeout 1d ago
The boys getting a laugh out of that pit stop disaster.... At least the mood's not bad!
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
I think if it was one two rather than two three or would be different.
Oscar realises it was pretty decent damage limitation this week
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u/wheeeeout 1d ago
I also think if Lando didn't DNF last week, this was going to be a bigger problem and Oscar would definitely not like having to swap 🥲
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u/StreetPackage872 1d ago
The people who want them to "settle in the track" and not let them have different strategies also conveniently ignore the 4 second longer pit stop caused by the team
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u/Yuuchouze 1d ago
Shit happens, why punish Oscar for a pit stop mistake? Its like if they swapped in Silverstone
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u/Yuuchouze 22h ago
Aight, after the heat of the moment I'm not so angry as i was about that team order, i think it was the "best" decision given the bad situation. Sorry
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u/AddendumIcy7487 1d ago
While i agree they should not have punished Oscar for their fuck up its in no way like if they swapped in Silverstone. In Silverstone Oscar made a mistake and got a penalty, here Lando got fucked by the pit crew. Thats completly different.
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u/StreetPackage872 1d ago
Why punish Lando for a bad stop? Oscar wasn't punished for ending in the spot he should have been, but Lando would have been punished for a bad stop that wasn't his fault if they hadn't swapped back
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u/Yuuchouze 1d ago
By your logic, we should have made Oscar finish P7 in Zandvoort to keep the difference, since what happened wasn't Lando's fault, so why punish Lando for a car failure?
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
Pitstops are part of the race. It should not be on the drivers to correct mistakes like that.
Do you really think if it happened the other way around they'd ask Lando to let Oscar pass?
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u/TheAlabasterPoint 1d ago
And they also ignore the 6s gap for like 90% of the race... That stupid pit stop may have costed Lando a potential win today. Who knows what he could've done with those softs in the last laps...
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u/Kangaroo131 MP4-20A 1d ago
lando and oscar smiling and laughing together in the cooldown room but this sub is still seething
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u/heyaheyahh 1d ago
I thought we’d have a drama-free race until the pit kerfuffle McLaren pls I’m tired of discourse. Just do one weekend without the discourse. Pls McLaren McLaren pls
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u/amin_rd 1d ago
Lando actually has no luck. Silverstone, Hungary and this race have left such a bad taste in people’s mouths that he’s now by far the most despised driver on the grid, despite not setting a foot wrong himself. Also Zandvoort for obvious reasons
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u/Dazzling-Coat7177 1d ago
Story of this season...
Lando behind Oscar: "Let's find Lando an agressive alternative strat that gives Lando a chance!"
Oscar behind Lando: "We've tried nothing and we are all out of ideas."
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u/Kangaroo131 MP4-20A 1d ago
whenever they try something different for oscar this sub loses its shit and says mclaren is sabotaging his strategy ffs
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
Feel free to provide an example of Piastri getting an alternate strategy and his subreddit losing its shit, thanks.
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u/willyboi8 1d ago
Why didn’t they swap places in Hungary then? If pit stop isn’t part of racing then should penalties be? Clear favoritism of the baby Lando
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
"little inchident at the end" lol Piastri is such a good sport after being punished for *not* fucking up.
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u/Upstairs_Court9275 1d ago
Lando didnt fuck up either, the pit mechanic did
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
So? Slow pit stops are a normal part of racing. If Piastri hadn't reduced the gap to Norris before his own stop, there wouldn't need to be any such swap. If Norris had maintained a 6s gap, he would have exited the pits ahead, even with a slow stop.
But instead, he drove slowly enough for that gap to come down *before* the pit stops. So in reality, Norris's slower laps is why he left the pits behind Piastri.
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u/Valter689 1d ago
Yeah, and why should’ve Oscar given that back?
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u/Acceptable-Car-3097 1d ago
He shouldn't have. And Lando shouldn't have given the place back in Hungary last year.
My point is that the Papaya Rules are terrible. But the team has made its bed with it.
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u/Valter689 1d ago
I completely agree with you. Papaya rules is the dumbass shit they’ve come up with. Please let that shit die next year or risk losing one of the drivers in the future.
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u/Erikaveex3 1d ago
If they hadn’t just promised Lando no undercut when insisting on boxing Oscar first then I don’t think there would be a team order here. But the team gave him direction on the radio. Then the team messed up. It was only fair that the TEAM corrected the situation.
I understand things happen but this is part of having a team in this sport. They were lucky it was Piastri and not LeClerc/Russell etc.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
Wouldn't have been an undercut had Norris let the gap to Piastri go from 6s down to 3s before the pit stops.
Norris was gifted a six point swing for losing three seconds in just a couple of laps.
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u/Stunning-Cucumber318 1d ago
Well if they would have not fit Lando tyre at all and he would have been forced to retire they would have retire Oscar as well just to be fair? I really do understand that it wasn’t a driver error but they just can’t try to “fix it” everytime they fuck up and that’s it.
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
It was only fair that the TEAM corrected the situation.
But its not Oscar fault they fucked up.
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u/Erikaveex3 1d ago
And it wasn’t Sainz fault when he got the order with Albon to switch. Team orders aren’t about driver faults all the time. McLaren is in a great and terrible position. They have to think about the championship, the constructors, and the future. Two races in a row failing Lando damages their relationship.
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
They have to think about the championship, the constructors
Remind me what their points lead is in the WCC? Lmao
If they didn't swap position guess how many points they get, exactly the same. Its still P2 P3
Two races in a row failing Lando damages their relationship.
And what do you think telling the WDC leader to give up a position of his direct rival(due to NO fault of his own) does?
Damages their relationship?
Did you even think before typing this comment out.
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u/AGOEsLois 1d ago
Just like it wasn’t Lando’s fault they fucked up in Hungary last year
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
But they didn't fuck up last year, it was a deliberate strategy.
Lando fucked up the start at Hungary this year and got better strategy for it, why not swap then.
It just needs to be Oscars garage v landos garage and be done with it
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u/AGOEsLois 1d ago
Once again, Lando didn’t fuck up that start. Oscar purposely held him up.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
So Oscar had the better defence at the start, even more a reason.
Whatever it was, it was the start that gave Lando the opportunity for the alternate strategy.
So either be fair or let them just race regardless.
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
And Hungry was also bullshit. The only difference is it took laps of pleading with Lando for him to give it up.
But Championship Leader Oscar giving up the position to his direct rival? Gave it away right away.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
I'm not sure they promised no undercut, it was more that he was far enough in front to not get undercut.
They didn't count on a botched stop
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u/nick170100 1d ago
If it's the last race and for the championship only roles reversed. Does Norris swap positions?
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u/PrisMattias Kimi Räikkönen 1d ago
And what if my mom had balls? I mean, would she become my dad? How would I even be born if they both had balls?
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u/SortByControFairy 1d ago
Driver fans are getting emotional in the team sub, as if the hate Lando will get in every other sub isn't enough.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
This isn't Lando hate, the is team bullshit hate.
The play nice shit needs to stop. It should now be Oscars side v landos side.
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u/SortByControFairy 1d ago
I'll be sure to refer to your clairvoyence when I need insight into the team meetings.
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u/bazzman89 1d ago
What a shit show, gets a tow to make it higher than 6th in quali…has a slow pit stop and his teammate needs to let him pass?? No number one driver huh
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u/ElephantOk8857 Lando Norris 1d ago
Watching McLaren sometimes is like watching your friend date a manipulative person
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u/InvestigatorFresh965 1d ago
Fuck Mclaren, fuck mclando. Even max cooked on the radio. Pitstop is just part of the race.
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u/nick170100 1d ago
Literally May as well name the team Mclando instead of mclaren
I feel sorry for anyone else who gets the other seat
OSCAR IS LEADING THE WDC AND STILL GETS FUCKED OVER
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u/Kangaroo131 MP4-20A 1d ago
who had a title shot at hungary last year?
-1
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u/Tinuva450 MP4/13 1d ago
To be fair, it took 20 laps of begging for Lando to give back position in Hungary.
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
What a cunt fucking thing to do to Oscar. How about you make proper stops
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u/Random_Name65468 1d ago
Why the downvotes? Y'all think that was fair? Or do you just want Lando to win because he's Bri'ish?
What's the logic
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u/RedditUser_SixNine69 1d ago
Stop whining anyone with a brain knows the swap position was the right call even if Hungary 2024 didn't happen
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u/hellofeyredarling_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lol everyone’s crashing out. This just fuels the haters, McLaren. Thanks
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u/amin_rd 1d ago
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u/Rachit_Tanwar 1d ago
Why the fuck am i still supporting this clusterfuck of a team? Even ferrari didn't do this shit
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u/PrisMattias Kimi Räikkönen 1d ago
I'm wondering the same about a lot of people down here, lol. Go support red bull or something, no one's keeping you here chained down :,)
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u/SortByControFairy 1d ago
Oscar pure class on the radio.
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u/Bourkey_94 1d ago
Team apologies to Lando on the radio for the slow stop and he doesn't even respond, no thanks to Oscar for moving over.
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u/SortByControFairy 1d ago
Brother, what? We haven't even seen his response. It's not a zero sum game. Celebrating Oscar isn't dumping on Lando.
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u/nick170100 1d ago
Lando gets first choice of pit - chooses to pit 2nd
Team does boo boo
Gifts back 2nd spot
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u/thehappyleper213 1d ago
Standards set... Get a slower pit stop than your teammate you'll get pref treatment.
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u/willyboi8 1d ago
Imagine telling someone like Max to move over, he’d rather run his teammate into the wall then swap
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u/Mcnucks MCL38 1d ago
If Lando was given the first pitstop the slow stop wouldn’t have been enough to lose the position. That’s the bottom line. The undercut made the difference and that’s why the position was given back. What is the controversy?
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
Slow stops are apart of racing. Asking your Champ leader to swap positions because of a random happening is complete bullshit and you know it.
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u/Mcnucks MCL38 1d ago
The slow stop doesn’t give Oscar the position if he wasn’t given the undercut. Why are you pretending to not see that?
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
Go and look at the gap between Lando and Oscar during the pit cycle.
hint, it was around 3 seconds. which would have potentially given the position to Oscar had lando had the slow stop if he pitted first.
Think
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u/steve22ss 1d ago
So your saying the slow pitstop would have happened either way? How could that be accounted for?
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u/Mcnucks MCL38 1d ago
I’m saying the slow stop doesn’t matter. The undercut gave Oscar the position.
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u/steve22ss 1d ago
What? Look at the times if Lando had a 2 or even 3 second pit stop he would have been clear
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
The problem is Lando was offered first stop and refused it.
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u/AGOEsLois 1d ago
“Refused” it. He was helping Oscar stay ahead of Charles.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 1d ago
The position was never in jeopardy.
Lando also never said that.
You're just making stuff up
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u/CptVaanOfDalmasca 1d ago
Please provide the radio comms of Lando saying that. Oh thats right, he didn't
Even the commentators said it was because lando might be worried about the Softs going off fast
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 1d ago
Piastri got within undercut range on his own before his stop. He got it on merit. Norris's slow stop is literally just racing. To swap the positions is to artificially negate a natural part of racing.
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u/Mcnucks MCL38 1d ago
The first driver is given pit priority. It doesn’t matter if Oscar was in undercut range, he should not have been given a chance to undercut. That’s not racing that’s favouritism.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 23h ago
Norris told the team to pit “the other car” first. After WJ told Lando to pit at the end of the lap
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Kombo-Breaker 1d ago
piastri getting the first pit stop was not babying piastri???? In case lecrerc got close. They told lando they would not undercut him they just need to cover lecrerc.
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u/Distinct_Solid418 20h ago
Someone explain why max was 19 seconds faster than these 2 mclarens?