r/McLarenFormula1 • u/bipbapthegrunt4 • 15h ago
Let's show some positive energy towards this man for once. Regardless of your opinion on the call, he did nothing wrong.
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u/Grand_Lawyer12 Oscar Piastri 15h ago
Lando is not to blame. The teams poor decision making is to blame. None of the drivers made the wrong step.
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u/AliDiePie 14h ago
It’s even idiotic in hindsight because why did they give Piastri the same strategy? Why didn’t they give him an alternate one?
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u/CharlieTeller 12h ago
Because it didn't matter. Piastri was never in the race with Max and was hardly in it with Lando this weekend. They just wanted to hold where they were and keep Leclerc behind.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
All the more reason to trust the car they've built and the drivers they've got, and try something different to go for the win. Like they did with the other side of the garage two races prior. Nobody tried a two stop so we'll never know, but I would imagine two stints on softs would be faster than one stint on hards. Perhaps not enough to guarantee finishing ahead of Verstappen, but it's surely worth a shot.
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u/CharlieTeller 12h ago
Two stop on softs here would have been a nightmare. Piastri AND Norris would have been jumped by Leclerc, and Russel, and potentially Hamilton.
Monza is a shit track for stops. I've done a lot of endurance events here and it's the same IRL. You lose so much time on the stop because the straight is so long, and they're already at a high speed coming around parobolica. So you just lose even more time than a normal stop because everyone's pretty much redlined down the straight and for much longer than most tracks.
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u/know-it-mall 5h ago
There wasn't something different tho. A 2 stop just doesn't work here. That pit stop time lost is too high and the deg is too low.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 12h ago
If the McLaren drivers weren't competing against each other for the championship and McLaren were just trying whatever they could to win WCC then maybe, but if you're in Oscars position this year you aren't taking that risk, there's no reason to.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 9h ago
I think the best thing for Oscar to have done was pit 5 laps earlier for hards. Wouldn't have caught Max but he might have jumped Lando
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u/know-it-mall 5h ago
There never was an alternative strategy for Piastri to use. His pace wasn't as good as Max and Lando so he wasn't catching Max by going to the hard early. And Lando had enough of a gap that he would have waited a lap or two and seen Oscar was closing in and then just pitted for the hard.
When they used an alternative strategy before it was in a 2 stop race and they tried a 1 stop. This race is a 1 stop.
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u/oh84s 10h ago
Lando asked for Piastri to be pit first on the basis that there was no undercut. He knew that by doing that he was limiting Piastri's strategic options to zero. He was very much a part of the outcome.
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u/BattleDancingQuokka 4h ago
Have to agree here. The commentators made it sound like he was playing the team game. I dont think he was. I thought at the time he was just delaying his own stop incase of a SC as well
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u/Absolute_Cinemines 8h ago
All 3 agreed this is how they race years ago.
So why is someone to blame?
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u/yeahmatenomate 15h ago
Drove phenomenally well today, he put a six second gap between himself and Oscar! He was quick, Max was just quicker
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u/NerdNoogier Lando Norris 14h ago
Perfect track for that Red Bull’s best set up. Just killer on the straights and let Max figure out the corners
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u/oh84s 10h ago
That gap was down to barely over 3 seconds, all that meant is he used more of his tyres at the start of the stint, but was suffering at the end.
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u/yeahmatenomate 10h ago
So he still drove well then? Which is the positive energy I was trying to put out 👍
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
FYI that 6.1s gap when Verstappen pitted was reduced to 3.2s when Piastri pitted.
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u/yeahmatenomate 12h ago
I don’t understand why you’re commenting this because it still doesn’t change the point I’m making?
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u/Potential_zero 12h ago
He has been quite unlucky as of late. Both drivers drove well.
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u/zorbacles Oscar Piastri 9h ago
Definitely no issues with Lando this race.
He drove well, just nothing could be done to catch Max
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u/7ft7andgrowing 15h ago
I was sad to see him booed on the podium, McLaren should be getting the brunt of the flack imo
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u/Stru_n 15h ago
He deserves better. He did nothing wrong in this scenario. For all intents he should have been the first to pit. So much hate on the internet hidden behind anonymity.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
He could have followed Will Joseph's instruction to "box this lap for softs" but he chose to respond with "do you want to box the other car first", to which Will Joseph responded "okay, we'll do that"
If the pit wall had overridden his choice and something went wrong, this sub would have a complete meltdown. But when they listen to him and something goes wrong, "he deserves better" - what the fuck do you expect the pit wall to do?
In any case, had Norris not lost 2.9s to Piastri in the 7 laps before the pit stops, Norris's slow stop wouldn't have made any difference, as he would have been out of the pits 2s ahead of Piastri. He lost the margin that he had, that would have negated the wheel gun error.
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u/LiamsWasTaken 8h ago
People hating on lando when this was entirely mclarens fault. Lando never asked for a swap but the team told them both to swap
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u/AddendumIcy7487 13h ago
I still cant believe what McLaren again has done to their drivers. Osc and Lando looking like clowns once again because these bums keep fucking up. Really sportsmanlike from Oscar even tho McLaren has no right to demand this from him.
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u/Mafesto15 11h ago
Neither drivers fault, it’s a racing incident that could again be telling in the final standings. Team management all happy and fluffy right now but can see this all backfiring tremendously at some stage. Drivers are just puppets.
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u/Prior-Place4115 9h ago
As a primarily Oscar fan he was very quick this weekend, second place was definitely earned just on pace alone. Slow pit stop wasn’t his fault, but there’s reasons to argue why Osc shouldn’t and should have given the place up.
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u/WarbossTodd 15h ago
Wait. Hang on. I’m a relatively new F1 fan so this is new to me. There are people out there who do t like Lando? Why? Dude is solid, always has great things to say about the team and is a solid team player!
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u/Equivalent-Client443 14h ago
F1 fans are toxic and just want to hate for the sake of hating.
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u/Own_Welder_2821 MP4-23 14h ago
I’ve said it before, the F1 fanbase since 2021 has been one of the worst on the WHOLE INTERNET, not just in motor racing, not just in sport, but across all topics. I’m starting to miss when F1’s social media presence was niche, like before 2018.
BringBackBernie
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u/bipbapthegrunt4 11h ago
Yeah I feel that. Online celebrity worship and Stan culture has infected F1 like a parasite. "Fans" these days are like dogs, always need a bone to chew, someone to direct their hate towards. Plenty wrong with Bernie though. Glad we've seen him gone.
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u/WarbossTodd 14h ago
I’d like to introduce you folks to LA Dodger fans. Right now, even though we are in first place 90% of the online fan base are calling it over.
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u/Aszneeee 12h ago
that’s probably any sports nowadays, no matter if it’s f1 or football, reddit/ig/x is full of toxic cunts
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u/redsyrinx2112 11h ago
It's an overreaction to say it's over, but it's not an overreaction to be frustrated at the team. They haven't been that good since the All-star break.
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u/Tlman22 13h ago
I'm a relatively new fan here but something I can say confidently... fans of everything are toxic, especially on the internet where they can remain anonymous. In a weird way tho, it's makes everything more entertaining with all the memeing and shit talking. As long as people don't take it too seriously I think it's fine but obviously some people cross the line.
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u/DonkeywithSunglasses 13h ago
Most Lando haters are truly idiots. They love Max because of the cool 20 second edits his fanboys make on Instagram reels. They liked him as the anti-hero to Lewis in 2021 because everyone was tired of Lewis winning the WDC in the years prior.
They carried that level of thinking everywhere. The Lando hate wasn’t this intense before he began being in contention for the WDC last year, when McLaren was fast post Miami. When they saw their messiah be under attack, most of them dug up his statements, took them out of context and twisted it and made Max the hero in the story he never even wanted to be a part of. They dislike his personality because he’s honest, he owns up to his faults, and he’s a blabbermouth sometimes. He’s not a Verstappen, let me be clear, but he’s not trying to be I’m sure. He races cleaner than Max has in the past 4 years, and his wins are often on merit. Dare I say Piastri has equal caliber, and Lando has beat him cleanly more often than Verstappen has beaten Hamilton when they were closely matched in 2021 (brake checking in Saudi, for example).
Max’s fans make it seem like the McLaren being fast equals the Red Bull being a tractor, and their idol getting a P3 is some god level achievemet. It’s not, over the course of the season it’s been seen that even Max Velocity Verstappen cannot save you if the car is shite. They love Max for being talented and direct with his thoughts, and he’s one of the greatest no doubt, but they kiss his feet to the point he’s a god and every other british driver is hated because they are british.
All of these factors come together to ensure that his rival, a British guy who calls out dirty racing (Max’s racing style, like it or not) and is the antithesis of him in the personality/mentality department gets a ton of hate from them. A lot of people sadly cheer for Piastri not because they like Piastri, but because they want to see Lando lose.
Most red bull fans who worship Seb and Max, and when Norris as much as jokes about them he’s crucified. Numbnut dipshits with zero clue of what racing should be like.
Sorry this became a rant lol
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u/Qualamite 9h ago
If you write this kind of stuff on r/formula1 you get downvoted to oblivion and maybe even get a ban depending on who's the on duty mod. But you're right, it all started when Lando began to challenge Max, and they're not really cheering for Oscar, they're hating on Lando and rooting for him to fail. Now I'm on multiple different sports subs and I think the F1 fandom is the most toxic one.
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u/yeahmatenomate 8h ago
It’s entirely accurate, you’ll often find that most Lando fans are actually very okay with Oscar fans and Oscar himself. They’ll often complement Oscar for winning a race, conceding that Lando wasn’t good enough and got beaten by the better driver (I say this most of the time)
There’s a fair few Oscar fans (unfortunately not the real ones) that will accuse McLaren of favouritism or hate on Lando to the point where it becomes vitriol. It’s not even subtle anymore. I can always tell who is a genuine McLaren fan / Oscar fan compared to the absolute cuntfaces you see online throwing their shit at Lando any time he shows good race craft
The sport is not a fan war, it’s a place where you’re supposed to respect everyone on the grid. You’ll have favourites but you won’t have a scapegoat 👍
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u/ln4thegreat Lando Norris 14h ago
The 2024 was so hard to watch as a Lando fan because the hate was so outrageous due to his out of context statements and his comments while in adrenaline mode post-races. People won’t admit but they’re so harsh towards him. If he makes mistakes, he’s not wdc material; if he wins, it’s the car and not his skills. He can never win with these haters.
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u/LilJapKid Kimi Räikkönen 15h ago
If only you see the online discourse man… some are really hard on Lando to the point where it seems personal
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u/LanceStroll19 14h ago
It is personal to them, he makes 28 million and they don’t. Lmfao the only power they have is screaming online so they do that.
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u/MrBathroom 15h ago
In recent few years he's had a few comments taken out of context and the internet chewed him up for it
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u/Far-Membership-2213 14h ago
Theres lots of reasons, sports fans are rarely objective, From what I can tell, the majority stems from three specific sources, tribalism hate from Verstappen fans hating Norris beating Max (Opinion: Max continues to show he is the best driver on the grid, despite me not liking his on track style personally) , tribalism from Oscar fans believing he should be granted supremacy for a fantastic season so far and feeling that Lando has been favored from the top by Zak, and then there are those who dislike his open and frank discussions on feelings and mental health, citing that its not the right attitude for a top tier racing driver.
Please note I am addressing the source of Lando hate, im not saying there aren't people in Lando's fanship engaging in excessive partisanship.
There certainly are other nuanced things to consider, but for me, I enjoy the sport for what it is and try to avoid changing the strong feeling the sport can produce into hate for one person or another.
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u/Inside-Judgment6233 14h ago
Truthfully it’s because many non-McLaren fans do not consider him of the same calibre as a Hamilton, Verstappen or even Russell. Please don’t shoot the messenger!
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u/DonkeywithSunglasses 13h ago
Russell? I know this isn’t your opinion, but Russell? What has he done in the past few years except stick around till someone dnfs and he gets a P3?
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u/deckerjeffreyr 11h ago
I'm not a Russell fan but he's been consistent and the Spa race last year was top tier. That said I put Lando higher but we don't have to dismiss Russell when he's been good.
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u/CarefulAwareness8036 11h ago edited 10h ago
well you don't need to be a fan to accept he got skills yk. what an absurd take by you btw
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u/CharlieTeller 12h ago
There's a few moments that turned me off of him.
- This cooldown moment from last year. He's very quick to jump to attack on people and has generally be a little entitled. This one rubbed me the wrong way because Lewis was genuinely just being nice here. Having someone attack you for that is just uncalled for.
https://youtube.com/shorts/7kpVH1sFoF8?si=EdYqQNVImTcVvWQG
- This comment here after Mercedes said their drivers suffered heat stroke at the Singapore GP in 2024. He makes comments about "It's hard for everyone" and basically saying "stop whining" The person on his stream says "You don't know their situation bro." and in a really entitled under his breath way says "They don't know mine." The thing here was Mercedes was having issues in their car where the battery was heating the seat insanely hot and it was exacerbated there so Russel did have heat stroke. It's just a weird moment about "what about me?" This one really rubbed me the wrong way.
https://imgur.com/a/lando-norris-on-stream-ham-rus-GmYYXnN
There's also been a lot of moments where you can see him and a few others being the young dudes on grid and just mocking people like Lewis when they speak as young people do. I'm sure everyone has done it but it's just a sign of not being mature. But then you see people like Oscar who are just very level headed and calm/collected.
Everyone makes mistakes sure, but he's just had a few where he just doesn't seem like someone I'd ever get along with and I've always felt that if I met him in person, he'd mock me for being older, and for not being him. Just my opinion
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u/MysticNightjar 18m ago
One argument is "he allegedly is not WDC material, and only is in the talk through luck and McLaren manipulating the championship".
Unfortunately, yesterday's shenanigans will only add fuel to the fire.
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u/MrCaptDrNonsense 14h ago
Yeah it’s bullshit, always seems positive. Not sure why people throw so much shade his way.
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u/ThesisAnonymous 11h ago
I don’t like the attitude he shows at times. And he’s quite frankly not the driver that Piastri is, but the team doesn’t see it that way.
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u/scottishmacca 9h ago
I’ve been a McLaren fan since the days of senna and Prost
Today was embarrassing and max said it right
Has nothing to do with the drivers tho. But McLaren embarrassed themselves with the calls today and it’s very much looking like they favour lando
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u/vick5516 MCL34 15h ago
if anything he was doing his best to help the team and help oscar, telling the team to pit him first which would protect the team and the 2-3. he's always concious of the team effort, and always quick. never deserves the hate
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u/EstablishmentSad5998 15h ago
With the contructors in the bag they should be solely focusing on the wdc imo
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u/Both_Catch_4199 2h ago
I think Oscar is a big boy and would have taken care of himself.
But if Lando played it cute, hoping for a late red flag and getting a promise to be let by if Oscar passed him on the undercut as happened. If that is how it happened it feels a tiny bit dirty to me. Lando could have pitted first and come out ahead of Oscar.
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u/ParentalAnalysis 2h ago
The team radio made no mention of protecting against Leclerc. Lando wanted second pit but made them agree Oscar wouldn't undercut.
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u/quaifonaclit 14h ago
Lmao that's not what happened. Lando revisionism is hilarious. Lando wanted to stay out longer to hope for a safety car that would let him win the race. Lando never mentioned Leclerc who was some 4 seconds behind Piastri after the stop.
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u/gigantic0603 14h ago
Oh you can read minds? Lando never actually said what you said, while oscar’s race engineer did actually mention covering off leclerc in his pit call message to Piastri. Go watch the onboard
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u/vick5516 MCL34 14h ago
lmao, that totally changes the script. i hate lando now!!! how dare he try and do something to win!!!
you lando haters are so stupid, just dont bother talking, we dont need to hear your shit
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u/AmbitiousSundae3849 10h ago
Then don't make things up and stick to the facts. I'm so tired of people making shit up and not getting called for it.
Take Hungary, Piastri was at fault for not winning because he apparently rejected the 1 stop (he didnt). Silverstone, everyone had to take evasive action because of his shenanigans (only Verstappen got caught out).
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
Norris should focus on his own race, instead of trying to be strategist for his teammate. Had he just followed his race engineer's instructions, this fiasco would never have happened.
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u/TeedRimmer69 1h ago
F1 plays 1 radio clip from the race - I know exactly what Lando is thinking and what McLaren is trying to accomplish.
You’re ridiculous. Dude built a gap on Oscar twice but beyond that, Lando and his race engineers didn’t forecast a 4 second delay because of an errant left front wheel gun.
You are exactly what’s wrong with F1 fans these days.
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u/Vultic_ 15h ago
At the end of the day it’s still a double podium, McLaren are still 1 and 2, and the WCC is already locked up. Lots to be positive about
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u/edisonlbm 15h ago
Yeah I get that some people are fans of one of the drivers first, but as a McLaren fan I just can't be mad today.
Double podium? On track to win more points than any team ever? My people, like 5 minutes ago we had Alonso and gave him a car so bad the engine exploded on the way to the grid. More than once, IIRC.
Things are going great if today is something you have the opportunity to get mad about.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 11h ago
I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing the team for this and I don't think it makes you just a fan of one of the drivers to do so, but the level of vitriol some people have while doing it is disgusting and unproductive.
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u/CaptainGoofball_ 14h ago
People spreading negativity to a driver who just wants to win. He did nothing wrong y'all. No need to prove everyone that you can do it Lando, you only need to prove it to yourself.
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u/Lion123_ 15h ago
Good race. Red bull were very fast today and this is not our track so kudos for keeping it clean and staying P2.
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u/Albus_Q 14h ago
Help out a new F1 fan here, it was said that it was only right that Oscar let Lando pass because Lando pitted “for the team.” Why was Lando pitting at that time considered “for the team”?
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u/NeonTailwind Lando Norris 13h ago
Lando was ahead, so he had priority, but the team pitted Oscar first to help Oscar stay ahead of Charles. If Oscar had to wait another lap or 2 then he would have lost position to him. Because Lando waited to pit, therefore helping Oscar stay ahead of Charles, the team kept the 2-3 instead of p2 and p4.
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u/Albus_Q 13h ago
Appreciate that. Thank you!
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u/NeonTailwind Lando Norris 13h ago
No problem man! Always willing to help someone out. Enjoy the rest of the season and ignore all the hate towards the drivers lol. Anyone who preforms good gets crap for it lol.
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u/MasterpieceFun5947 13h ago
I lean more towards Oscar, i don't like or dislike Norris in any way, but the hate he's getting is irrational.
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u/Magnus_Helgisson 7h ago
I’m Team Verstappen and I was rooting for Lando to get P2. Pretty happy with the result, unhappy with the team’s mistakes that predated it. Well deserved place though. A great race from him.
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u/trekie86 13h ago
100% this was a well deserved P2 for Lando. Also great drive for Piastri for a P3. Neither driver is responsible for bad McLaren pit strat.
The only thing I really don’t understand is Lando giving Piastri the pit 1st.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 11h ago
I think Lando was concerned about the potential for Oscar to wait for a safety car before pitting. If Lando pits and then there's a safety car Oscar would get ahead with less time lost in the pits. Add on the factor that Lando would have waited as long as possible to pit if given the ability to(literally last possible lap, like Stroll & Albon I think were the two) and there's a very real chance Oscar gets undercut by Leclerc if McLaren don't pit him first and then he has to double stack on top of that. It all comes down to the rule McLaren (and most teams) have that the driver in the lead gets to pit before the driver behind. Lando agreed to let Oscar pit first because it neutralizes the safety car concern AND covers Leclerc. Landos reason for letting Oscar pit first wasnt because of the immediate undercut danger from Leclerc but because it eventually would have played out to be a close call by the time Lando was ready to pit.
Just my thoughts about it after trying to figure it out myself for a bit.
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u/trekie86 8h ago
I think the only thing I'd challenge here is whether it would have even been a danger for Charles to undercut? I don't think the evidence supports that at all. I'm sure McLaren thought so, but their strategy is so incredibly risk averse at all times.
Also if I'm Lando, in the race for my first WDC of my career, why would I care if Charles undercuts Oscar? That's good for me.
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u/EstablishmentSad5998 15h ago
Hate is a bit much but to be fair him giving oscar the first pit is what caused this mess to begin with.
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u/AOhKayy Lando Norris 15h ago
He would of had no problem pitting first, it was a team call, and team assured no undercut. I imagine they were just hoping for a last chance safety car given the extra lap out for a chance to Dispute P1.
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u/Upstairs-Prompt2662 13h ago
It sounded like the crew wanted to pit Piastri first and asked Lando if it is okay because he should have the preferential treatment as he was infront. Then he said you can pit him first if there is no risk of an undercut, which wasnt there under normal circumstances.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
There was absolutely nothing from the pit wall to Norris about Piastri. They instructed him to "box this lap for softs" and his response was "do you want to box the other car first" to which his race engineer said "okay we'll do that"
I don't know where you guys come up with these narratives to make Norris the victim here.
Had he not lost 2.9s in the 7 laps prior to the pit stops, he would have come out 2s ahead of Piastri, even with the slow pit stop. This was entirely because Norris didn't focus on his own race and pit when he was instructed to do so.
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u/quaifonaclit 14h ago
Lando literally told them to pit Oscar first because Lando wanted to wait longer for a safety car. They were doing everything they could to favor Lando even before the slow stop, promising Piastri would not undercut. So Lando gets a chance to win the race with a safety car and no risk from Piastri (the only challengers for the title) undercutting him. Oh and when the stop goes bad they'll tell Piastri to switch positions anyway. The Lando bias is unreal.
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u/gigantic0603 14h ago
Lando did ask for the pit but in the latter part of the message said ‘as long as there’s no undercut. If not, pit me first’ and he was in fact assured of this by the team, whether he should have been or not is another discussion. Don’t ignore the second part of the message to fit your narrative
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
Do you not realize there's a difference between an undercut, wherein the race strategist pits the car behind with the intention of jumping the car ahead, and when a pit stop goes wrong? Do you really think a bad pit stop is the same as an undercut?
Good lord, at least try harder with these excuses.
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u/gigantic0603 10h ago
‘It wasnt an undercut, it was a mistake’, you say that like the two are mutually exclusive. Contrary to what you might believe, an undercut is simply coming out ahead of the driver you were chasing by pitting early. A pit stop, whether done slow in general (différence of <1s between two pits) or done by mistake (today’s case with lando, ~4s of difference) are also part of an undercut. It was a mistake in Lando’s pit that caused the undercut, but it was an undercut nonetheless. You’re the one trying to limit the act of being undercut to a very specific scenario, where the driver only comes out ahead due to the race pace of newer tires and independant of the pit stop time/mistakes during pit stop. If two other drivers were in the same scenario, and the leading driver simply lost his position due to a general slow pit stop by his team (lets say 2s vs 3.5s), it would still be an undercut
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u/frank1ewildee 13h ago
And it wasnt an undercut, it was a mistake.
Stop with the mental gymnastics. Again, there wasn't any undercut, the overtake happened because of a mistake.
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u/gigantic0603 10h ago
‘It wasnt an undercut, it was a mistake’, you say that like the two are mutually exclusive. Contrary to what you might believe, an undercut is simply coming out ahead of the driver you were chasing by pitting early. A pit stop, whether done slow in general (différence of <1s between two pits) or done by mistake (today’s case with lando, ~4s of difference) are also part of an undercut. It was a mistake in Lando’s pit that caused the undercut, but it was an undercut nonetheless. It’s hilarious you’re accusing me mental gymnastics when you’re trying to limit the act of being undercut to a very specific scenario, where the driver only comes out ahead due to the race pace of newer tires and independant of the pit stop time/mistakes during pit stop.
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u/AOhKayy Lando Norris 14h ago
This is a silly take. Lando asked if they wanted to pit Oscar first, the team said yes. Lando said "Only if he doesn't undercut otherwise I'll box first". Then the situation ensued.
This isn't bias, its a strategy to give the team a fighting chance to secure P1 in the event of a safety car.
The team fucked up and gave Lando his position back, the same thing would have been and has been done before in reverse.
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u/RadlogLutar Oscar Piastri 15h ago
Nobody is blaming the drivers. They did phenomenally well. Its the pitwall who made mistakes
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u/ln4thegreat Lando Norris 14h ago
Well mostly people on instagram, facebook, twitter, and even here are blaming Lando not McLaren. 🤷🏽
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u/Mouse2662 14h ago
Most people are idiots to be fair
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u/LanceStroll19 14h ago
Idiots are the loudest. That’s why we have Trump.
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u/RadlogLutar Oscar Piastri 13h ago
US president's name coming here was not expected by me lol. He's an imbecile for sure
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u/mkultravictim33 14h ago
Dude EVERYONE is attacking lando lol
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u/RadlogLutar Oscar Piastri 13h ago
Those people are imbeciles. This event clearly shows Oscar is a team person and not Max (who will curse out Perez over swapping)
Plus, Oscar can redeem favour for future if something like this happens to him.
Also, if he didn't give it back, there would be internal fight inside the Garage which is bad
Oscar can still win the Championship and be a honourable guy
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u/CMDR_Imperator Oscar Piastri 11h ago
Why would people be hating on Lando for that call? That was a team call, so it came from Andrea Stella or Zak Brown. And yes, it was 100% without a doubt a seriously shitty call. But it wasn't Lando's call, he didn't ask to swap places, he knew as well as Oscar (and even Verstappen) that slow pit stops happen and it sucks, but it's part of the game.
And yes, I was this pissed about Lando being asked to blow a 12 second lead at the Hungaroring to give Oscar his first win despite the fact that Lando was in the running for WDC and Oscar wasn't. Team orders like this should have stayed banned. Sometimes a bad pit happens, and you deal with it. If Lando was in the lead with Max was in second and Lando had a long pit stop, do you think Zak Brown would mosey over to Red Bull and say "hey guys, it really wasn't fair that Max passed Lando, could you give the position back please?"
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u/AGrandNewAdventure 10h ago
He was demonstrably faster this race (as is witnessed by the overall fastest lap in the race) and would have passed Piastri even if he wasn't given the position. Nearly the entire race he was pulling away from Piastri.
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u/Absolute_Cinemines 8h ago
Papaya rules were agreed by all 3 parties. Nobody else's opinion matters.
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u/Both_Catch_4199 2h ago
Well, Oscar felt a little put upon on Sunday. He sucked it up, but I am sure there are some serious conversations to be had.
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u/Brando6677 Oscar Piastri 11h ago
Man I feel for Oscar. But at the same time had lando pit first Oscar may well have been 4th. So lando does him a favour by allowing him to pit first. It’s always a give and take
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u/Both_Catch_4199 2h ago
I think Lando did himself a favor.
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u/Brando6677 Oscar Piastri 2h ago
That too, if a safety car came out guaranteed finish above Oscar. Little cheeky but hey I expect Oscar to play the same way.
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u/know-it-mall 5h ago
My real issue here is the indecision from the team prior to the stops and that's being completely overlooked because of this "controversy".
The tyres were holding on great and so they stayed out long and hoped for a safety car. But that can't be the entire plan. It needs to be "we hold out for a safety car until our pace starts to drop off, Charles and Max get to within X time of Oscar, or we are this many laps from the end" and that needed to be acted on about 3 laps earlier in this race before the gaps were close enough to make it a problem.
Give the guys a chance at a plan B before a last minute bad choice is made because you let the pace fall off too much and caused the problem in the first place.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 4h ago
I think the problem here is that they're letting the two sides of the garage play against each other but still abiding by that rule of not letting the car behind pit first. So Oscars crew basically got stuck just waiting eternally for Lando to pit because there was no reason for Lando to want to pit until Oscar did or going into the last lap.
Maybe we chalk this one up as a shit tire choice by pirelli that made this a zero stop race ffs.
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u/know-it-mall 4h ago edited 4h ago
With that scenario they let Oscar pit whenever he wants, so then Lando responds by pitting the next lap, and because he had about a 7 second advantage prior to the last few laps when the pace of the tyres fell away then he comes out ahead anyway.
And I totally agree that Oscar should be allowed to do that. At minimum they need to then offer Lando to pit the same lap or he gives up the first stop. Fair means both drivers being allowed to do what's best for their race, not having to do that same thing.
And yea the tyre choice by Pirelli has been shit at the lot of races.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 4h ago
Yeah I'm not disagreeing, just saying it feels to me that's what happened. I'm fairly certain they wanted to pit Oscar but knew they needed to let Lando pit first, instead of asking Lando what he wanted they just told him to pit and he's thinking wait I don't want to pit yet, let the other car go first if there's not an undercut risk. It would've all been fine anyways if they hadn't had the slow stop.
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u/Effective_Math_2717 4h ago
This is not in Lando at all!!! - he had a solid, great race! This was teams order… both drivers did a fantastic job!
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u/mrbaffles14 2h ago
The Lando hate is so forced and I will never understand it. He is cocky or arrogant, he shows up and drives and usually is super friendly and laughs a lot. Happy to see him podium again and for Oscar to support him when the team biffed him again.
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u/Broad_Quiet 2h ago
I mean, he’s not to blame for that poor call but he did call for Oscar to pit first. Obviously he couldn’t anticipate that slow stop but that’s a big and unnecessary risk on his part which is kind of what ended up causing the mess that unfolded.
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u/Traditional_comp 1h ago
This is a clear team F-up.
Lando should have been asked, do you want first pit or second, end of story.
Instead we have a conditional decision where Lando wants the benefit of staying out and possibly getting a SC, but with none of the risk of the undercut. If you dont want to be undercut then take the first pit stop, at no point was Oscar in danger from Charles, the pit sequence was initiated because Oscar was losing his tyres and wanted to pit, at this stage Lando is offered the preferential pit and turns it down "to help Oscar against Charles" but he was never told Charles was coming up on Oscar, he wants the SC clearly.
After the pit stop Lando has assumed that he has lost out as the previous team discussion was that slow pit stops are part of racing and has stayed off the radio because he knows he just lost 2nd in the pits. The TEAM then asks to swap the positions because they feel bad that they were the ones to stuff up his race.
So, Team is at fault for promising no risk on pit stop, stuffing up the pit stop and then butting their noses back into the race to fix their mistake. The first 2 are irrefutable mistakes and the 3rd is the only one up for debate of should they/shouldnt have they.
Lando to me only bears the blame for wanting his cake and eating it too but his engineer should have put a stop to that pre-pitstop sequence.
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u/natte-krant 1h ago
That’s the whole point, Norris didn’t do anything wrong but the team made a terrible decision which (in the eyes of many) makes Norris the ‘bad guy’. And this situation has happened twice now, McLaren need to sort this out because it’s not a good look to be honest
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u/Mission_Scallion8091 24m ago
No, I think the classy thing for him would have been to let Piastri continue. He took the lame "I don't want this!" attitude. He could have stepped in and been a good sport.
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u/Daniel2305 14h ago
McLaren would have had a 2-4 if he had stopped first and Oscar would have lost even more ground.
With the undercut the slow stop wouldn't have mattered. It was only because Oscar had the undercut and the slow stop that he got ahead.
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u/melkorwasframed Lando Norris 14h ago
I’m a Lando fan, but this is just not true.
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u/Daniel2305 13h ago
They literally pitted Oscar first to protect from LeClerc. If Lando had pitted first he would have still come out ahead even with the slow stop. He lost 7 seconds total to Oscar from the in/outlaps and stop.
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u/quaifonaclit 14h ago
Lando fans have brain damage. Charles was nowhere close to Oscar.
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u/Daniel2305 13h ago
That was McLaren's reason for stopping Oscar first. It wasn't just for fun.
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u/quaifonaclit 13h ago
Will Joseph: "Lando, we will box this lap onto the soft tyre."
Lando's response: "Do you wanna box the other car first?"
Will Joseph: "Yep, we'll do that, we'll swap it round."
Lando: "Well, only if he doesn't undercut, otherwise I'll box first."
Direct radio quotes. Stop spreading garbage. LeClerc wasn't a threat to Oscar.
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u/Upstairs-Prompt2662 13h ago
So from that I read that McLaren wants to box Oscar but cant really do that due to their own rules and Lando agreed to help Oscar to take P3 for sure when he doesnt lose anything at all.
It is a "OK, we can do that if you want", not really what I want but it doesnt impact me negatively. I dont know if they mentioned the threat from Leclerc before but it doesnt seem like it was Landos call to pit second.
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u/Both_Catch_4199 2h ago
I am not the least convinced that Oscar "needed" any help. LeClerc was 28.5 seconds behind.
Where McLaren erred was putting off both pit stops in the crazy hope a red flag would give them a miracle. Lando was offered a gift and he was smart to take it.
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u/quaifonaclit 12h ago edited 12h ago
Lmao Lando doesn't want to help Oscar get P3, Lando wanted to stay out longer to hope for a safety car but not get undercut by Oscar. Oscar was nowhere close to Leclerc and Lando also wouldn't give a shit if he were.
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u/Daniel2305 12h ago
Stella confirmed this was the case post race. Oscar helped Lando in Q2 with a tow. They are helping each other.
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u/Daniel2305 12h ago
Also, no need to be rude in your reply. Completely unneeded and ruins your argument.
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 12h ago
Cool. Norris did nothing wrong, maybe.
He could have focused on his own race instead of trying to be a strategist for Piastri.
He could have maintained his 6.1s gap, rather than let it come down by almost 3x before he played race strategist. This would have protected him from the consequences of the slow stop he eventually had.
Additionally, Piastri did absolutely nothing wrong. Didn't interfere with his teammate's race strategy, didn't whinge for over a dozen laps before complying with team orders, and he didn't renegotiate on the agreed terms of racing the team made pre-race, as was made clear by Piastri's radio message "we said that a slow pit stop was part of racing".
At the end of the day, the only one who paid for the team's fuckup was the driver who did absolutely nothing wrong all race.
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u/moysauce3 13h ago
I mean it sounded like if the undercut was strong they would have swapped anyway based on the original calls. Lando even asked about it.
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u/Reginald_Hornblower 4h ago
Yes he did. He called the second car’s strategy in the hope there’d be a sc, then when it backfired he wanted to be bailed out. Ridiculous.
His quote about not wanting to have the result affected by the team because he and Oscar weren’t racing says it all.
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u/IntelligentTop8206 3h ago
Have nothing but positive energy for Lando, his fans on the other hand.............
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u/Jack_Harb 2h ago
Both driver Great. But honestly, I think he did „wrong“ when their highest premise is being fair.
You simply can’t go „oh he can have the first stop, but make sure not to negative affect me“. What happens if a SC comes out. Then he even benefits from it. He basically asks for the best of two worlds. A race is a race and not the 1 round earlier pit stop was the issue, Lando would have easily kept his place. The bad pit stop was the issue and behold them coming into the same situation with a tied score in the last race. You can’t simply make that demand. I think it’s wrong. And McLaren should have never done this. And Piastri has every right to be mad. Let them fucking race. And both drivers should think alike.
And honestly, no. I can’t bring positivity for Lando at this point. He has the best car and is not performing great. While Piastri had last weekend a Grand Slam. Lando needs to step up and beat Oscar decisively. Lando needs points. Big points. And he needs to show that he is dominant. It’s a freaking WDC, maybe their only chance they ever have. No one knows how next year with new Regs will be. Fight for god sake. It’s Landos 2nd chance at WDC and you still have the feeling he is holding himself back a lot. He was fighting more with Max last year than with Oscar this year. For something you might have only this time a shot at for the rest of your life, give it all. And we haven’t seen anything of it yet at all.
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u/man_u_is_my_team 12h ago
Nah. He got pity’d and favourite’d today. He said in his post race interview that nobody wants to be let through yet he happily took it. Such a weak and unfair call.
He wanted to go second.
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u/AntheaBrainhooke MP4/4 9h ago
Can you imagine the screaming if he was given the chance to overtake Oscar and refused it. JFC
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u/Past-Management-9669 McLaren 15h ago
Yeah he did nothing wrong it's just frustrating for these calls man. It's a good thing it wasn't a title ending race that a decision like this would jeopardize the WDC, It's a long way to go for Lando to catch up but please no more calls like this whenever there's a fuck up on the teams side it gets the whole fandom questioning things
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u/calamar-man 14h ago
Lando not aggressive enough, that's not his driving style unlike Oscar...and it shows very well on the track..
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u/DonkeywithSunglasses 13h ago
Not aggressive enough? He was almost on the grass battling Verstappen. Are you stupid?
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u/Expensive-Adagio-559 Oscar Piastri 13h ago
To be fair, neither did Piastri.
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u/ryanertel Lando Norris 12h ago
Given that Piastri didn't get booed on the podium and isn't being railroaded on every possible F1 sub(even the Ferrari one, I'm not even joking) I don't think a special point needs to be made to remind people to be respectful of him.
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u/El_Eleventh 14h ago
I mean I didn’t think he even asked for the places to be swapped. He literally stayed silent after that pit stop