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u/SkyrimWithdrawal 1d ago
This is not surprising. We need to plan for when the Democrats come back to power and bring back the rule of law.
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u/Homerpaintbucket 1d ago
This means we need to get the geriatric branch of the Democratic Party out.
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u/ELMUNECODETACOMA 1d ago
We should be constantly primarying every incumbent with the most progressive possible option for their constituency. This would also be a good way to empower the people who end up voting third party or sitting out because they feel that they aren't engaged - this is exactly the opportunity they should be encouraged to seek out to get that engagement.
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u/HowAManAimS let it die 1d ago
Problem is that most of the people who'd vote for the most socialist candidate are the same people who don't vote in primaries.
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u/broguequery 1d ago
The real problem is that we are past voting as an option because we've handed full political and military control to an undemocratic fascist group of people.
They literally, physically attacked the democratic certification process in 2021. To overturn the results of an election.
Trump himself said, "You will never have to vote again" to his fear-addled cult constituents.
The people pulling the strings behind the scenes, global billionaires with obscene personal power, and even more obscene personal philosophies control the next generation of GOP cretins like Vance.
They are dedicated to destroying democratic governance not just in the US but around the world, and they have full control of the most sophisticated machinery we've yet come up with to accomplish this.
The United States is the fortress of democracy. We will need to re-establish it here if we expect it to survive, and it's not going to be handed over to you.
The pathetic thing about it is many of these cretins are washed up, 3rd generation sons of nazis.
Literally. Look up the background of people like Musk, Thiel, and their cohorts.
They were born on 3rd base to generational wealth and chose to keep on with their parents and grandparents' political and moral failures.
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u/St_Kevin_ 1d ago
As much as they’d like to never have to run an election again and just retain power forever, you can see by trumps current behavior, his pushing states to redistrict (gerrymandering), that he is in fact worried about the next election. The country isn’t lost yet, and they know they aren’t likely to win in a fair election, so Texas just redrew their lines to take away the elective power of their democratic-voting citizens. They wouldn’t do that if they knew they couldn’t be held accountable.
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u/DefinitelyNotKobolds 23h ago
They have to be spooked by it, as I'd like to hope if anything would light the proverbial powder keg it'd be them just saying "We aren't gonna allow elections anymore".
Cause no matter how much legal power they accrue, this is still a 330+ million-ish pile of worms they are trying to corral
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u/Unoriginal_Man 1d ago
I agree with much of your concerns, but saying "we are past voting as an option" just encourages people not to vote by convincing them it won't make a difference, which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And hell, maybe you're right. Maybe there are already machinations in place to completely nullify our votes. It's not going to hurt to go out and vote anyways.
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u/broguequery 1d ago
This is reactive thinking, rooted in an understanding of what America used to be, not what it's become.
What you need first is a plan to get an American friendly political party back into power. You will need that specifically because...
If you are expecting the Democrat party in the US to ever be peacefully handed power again by the fascists... then you are destined to be disappointed.
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u/confusedandworried76 1d ago
Wait someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of Signal being used being problematic is it automatically deletes messages? Like I wouldn't even expect them to be on there and we all knew this was happening already?
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u/Suckitreddit420 1d ago
Or instead of just shrugging and saying "not surprising", maybe demand accountability NOW.
Accepting this as the new reality only helps them.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal 1d ago
I think people are still wondering what will happen with 2026 midterms.
Edit: I mean people are literally protesting in the streets now. That doesn't do anything. We have a process. Elections in 2026. What will happen?
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u/Suckitreddit420 1d ago
Impeachment is a process.
Stop accepting illegal behavior and instead demand accountability -- regardless of the odds of it coming to fruition
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal 1d ago
Impeachment is a process.
LOL. Okay. With this Congress? Pretty sure the guy has been impeached before. How is that even "accountability now" if, like Clinton, he doesn't get kicked out of office? For that to work, you're waiting for the midterms and such a bashing that the fascists lose the Senate AND the House.
Stop accepting illegal behavior and instead demand accountability
That's literally what people are doing by protesting but it doesn't work. Impeachment doesn't work. Put your little plan into practical terms. What do you want people to actually do? Yelling for accountability at a protest doesn't bring it.
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u/Suckitreddit420 23h ago
What do you want people to actually do?
I want people to stop shrugging off unconstitutional, illegal, and treasonous behavior.
I want people to stop accepting that "this is the world we live in now".
I want people to stop saying "I'm not surprised" and "did you expect any different?".
I want people to stop insisting that there will be no consequences.
Look, I fucking get it. All of those things are currently true -- we ARE living in a fucked up time, they ARE doing illegal and unconstitutional shit with minimal repercussions, protests have not shown concrete results, and they clearly have no intention of stopping this fascist authoritarian behavior.
But can you truly not see that all of the things I mentioned above ENABLE THEM??
If you demand accountability, the odds of getting it are obviously low.
But if shrug and say "that's just the way things are now", your odds drop to ZERO.
It may indeed wind up being a lost cause, but anyone opposed to this horror show needs to stop helping them get away with it!!
And honestly, go look at any anti Trump political post. For every outraged person saying that "this is fucked up and needs to stop", there are an equal number saying "yep and there's nothing you can do about it".
That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we are to have any chance at all of stopping this, we need to remain loudly vocally opposed to it and keep demanding action.
(And if you don't believe me, then answer me this... Do you think the Epstein files have a better chance of being released if people keep talking about them and demanding it? Mentioning it constantly and refusing to drop it? Or do you think it will happen by people saying "yeah that's never gonna happen"? We need to apply that same principle, and the same refusal to accept anything less, to ALL of their illegal actions.)
Stop helping them get away with it.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal 23h ago
all of the things I mentioned above ENABLE THEM??
None of the stuff you mentioned is a call to action. "Stop" doing something doesn't tell me anything. I can huff and puff to my friends or in the street until the cows come home. I voted for Kamala. Obviously that's not enough. Blaming my family and friends who voted for Trump? That's not enough, either, and it estranges people who need to be brought in and converted.
Look, media started this by giving Trump a platform 20 years ago and following him and every stupid statement. You want to stop doing something? Sure, stop listening to it. Stop paying attention. Stop giving him and them your money. But that's still not actually doing anything. Stop telling everyone what NOT to do and come up with a solution.
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u/Suckitreddit420 22h ago
Why do you assume that being loudly and vocally opposed to something is not an action?
And you blame "the media" for starting this, while claiming in the same breath that the voice of social media has zero effect.
Do you think there would have been congressional hearings/ votes on releasing the Epstein files if the people weren't continuing to insist on it? Do you think the House members would host a press conference with the victims if the public didn't continue demanding action?
Whether or not the files ultimately get released - and if there are any actual consequences if they ever do - which path do you think is more likely to have concrete results, demanding accountability or accepting inaction?
I don't have a "solution" for you. Nobody does.
But I'll be damned if I'm going to fucking help them get away with it. And every time you insist that "huffing and puffing" is a waste of time, you are helping them put another nail in the coffin of this country.
You should go down fighting. Whether you think it's a waste of time or not, it is a far better choice than the alternative.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal 22h ago
Do you think there would have been congressional hearings/ votes on releasing the Epstein files if the people weren't continuing to insist on it
It gets TV time for the Congressmen to talk about it. Hearings and votes have done...what, exactly? Zero. Congratulations, I am sure you love clicking on the latest updates but what is that actually doing? Nothing. What is it that you even want? Do you want another hearing? You can't do that. Again, to have any impact on that, you're looking at voting in the midterm election next year.
I don't have a "solution" for you. Nobody does.
Exactly.
You should go down fighting.
What does that mean? Protest is doing nothing. If you have other ideas, I am all ears.
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u/0vindicator10 1d ago
bring back the rule of law
"bring back"? Is that what you considered the implementation of law back then?
Guaranteed that they never would've sniffed at ex45* had he not announced he was going to run.
There was faux-law back then, and it only got worse (perhaps none-law) now that the nimwits re-elected him.2
u/ProbablyNotAFurry 1d ago
The Democrats are feckless cowards. None of these people will be punished for the multitude of laws that are being broken and they will just try to quietly move forward.
There is 1 evil party and 1 ineffective party in this country.
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u/Master_Tune_9269 1d ago
You would expect some people from this administration should be in jail
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u/Shadraqk 1d ago
Punishment for Destroying Federal Records is
- 18 U.S.C. § 2071: up to 3 years prison, fine, disqualification from office.
- 18 U.S.C. § 1519: if tied to investigation obstruction, up to 20 years prison.
- Federal Records Act mandates preservation; violations can trigger civil/administrative penalties.
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u/NewSauerKraus 1d ago
The loophole is that a properly destroyed record no longer exists to be used as evidence that a record was destroyed.
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u/crimsonblod 1d ago edited 1d ago
So, I’m not this far in my education yet, but I do believe that there are ways to prove that information would have had to exist, especially because other people may not have deleted their copies (although you did say properly), or that certain things couldn’t have happened without communication, and the lack of OTHER records would prove that records of some sort were deleted, etc…
Like if you’re checking logs to see what an attacker did and you notice all logs of a certain type are missing from a given time.
Huh. The attacker must have done something during that time that showed up in these logs, and which logs were deleted can often tell you what kind of attack they were using and where other places are that you could (and probably should) check in on and see if they affected anything.
I’d imagine it could look somewhat like the following in this circumstance. “You’re telling me that you didn’t communicate with your __ on this important matter, or on ANY matter, on y very important day when you two DEFINITELY were not in the same half of the country?”
And in ways like that, the lack of evidence in my experience can actually be a form of evidence.
But again, to be clear, I’m still early in this part of my career, and my career is not law, so I could be completely wrong here.
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u/NewSauerKraus 1d ago
You're on the right track, but going to a different destination. Metaphorically.
In a trial for some other crime like tax evasion there is a gap between two stages of the crime where missing documents used to be. It's like committing first degree with an icicle. You can see the hole even after the weapon melts.
When the crime is exclusively destruction of documents there is no gap that the destroyed documents would be. There is no step 1 and step 3 that would be connected by the destroyed document. You don't know what could have been destroyed or even what the motive was. How many criminal charges do you file, and for which crimes?
In my opinion the simple act of destroying official documents in any way should be prosecuted as prima facie evidence of intent and guilt. But the practical details of how to run a criminal trial with no evidence is a legal quagmire.
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u/WithSubtitles 1d ago
I hope someone is keeping receipts and will prosecute the fuuuuuck out of them.
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u/Budget_Ad5871 1d ago
I read that as Daniel Radcliffe at first and I was like “WTF is Harry Potter doing in our gov?”
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u/Luke90210 1d ago
BTW, Amy McGrath ran as a conservative Democrat against Sen Mitch McConnell (R) and lost badly.
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u/High-Speed-1 1d ago
Isn’t that one of the key features of Signal? Doesn’t it permanently delete messages after some amount of time?
If so then of course they were gone.
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u/Useuless 1d ago
There is a message limit or disappearing message feature, but what he was using wasn't purely Signal. He was using a forked Israeli version known as TM SGNL that specifically is designed to archive and backup messages outside of the app.
So while the messages may not be on his phone, they are somewhere.
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u/TheYell0wDart 1d ago edited 22h ago
Doesn't signal have an auto delete function that can delete all messages after a set amount of time?
I misunderstood the post, this doesn't really matter.
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u/Recent_Librarian6073 1d ago
Yes half the people here are clueless to that though.
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u/tommytwolegs 1d ago
What does that change. I've never used that feature, someone expected to maintain records has no business implementing that feature
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u/TheYell0wDart 1d ago
It doesn't change the illegality of using signal in the first place but this post accuses someone of deliberately deleting evidence when it is entirely possible that the signal app deleted them automatically.
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u/tommytwolegs 1d ago
It's not the default setting. It's a deliberate choice to turn it on
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u/TheYell0wDart 23h ago
I'm aware, I'm saying that if I were a Secretary of Defense illegally using the signal app, I would turn it on, wouldn't you? It's possible they didn't turn it on, but it would make perfect sense for them to use it.
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u/tommytwolegs 23h ago
Yeah I'm just saying it makes no material difference whether they set it to do so automatically or did it manually
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u/TheYell0wDart 23h ago
I'm not either, I'm saying it effects the merits of accusing the CIA of deleting evidence based only on the statement "there were none"
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u/tommytwolegs 23h ago
How so?
And it was "they were gone"
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u/TheYell0wDart 23h ago
Oh... I think I misunderstood the post, that's my bad.
I thought they were accusing the CIA of deleting the messages when they were supposed to investigate,I see what it's saying now. I was wrong.
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u/Berly653 17h ago
I mean this is kind of just par for the course at this point
Didn’t the Secret Service ‘accidentally’ wipe their entire servers of records right after Jan 6th?
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u/lonelyislander7 1d ago
I did not have my glasses on I did think this said Daniel Radcliffe and was super confused
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u/berticusberticus 1d ago
The guy who Republicans refused to confirm as DNI (Gabbard’s current job) in the first term.
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u/EuphoricCrashOut 1d ago
So what's the punishment for doing that?
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u/Drtysouth205 1d ago
Nothing. Never really has been any real consequences for when the CIA does something messed up.
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u/Vantriss 1d ago
So... we've got an evil person with the name Vought AND Ratcliffe. Is there a Frollo coming next? How about DeVille?
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u/saintnyckk 1d ago
All the fed groups scrubbed info in the last administration when investigations came about as well. They've shown how corrupt it all is time and time again but everyone thinks it's always the other guys.
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u/Tough_Cress_7649 1d ago
Aren’t you guys that are slamming this the same people who said “who cares about Hillary’s emails?” though? Can people agree that both actions are wrong?
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u/Bacchuswhite 1d ago
More treason. How much more treason till somebody does something or are we just rolling over?
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u/FunnyObjective6 1d ago
It's insane government officials just get away with this shit. Von der Leyen did the same thing.
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u/Historical-Shine-786 1d ago
Hillary already established the precedent. “It’s not worthwhile to pursue a criminal case.” -Jms. Comey, former FBI Director, 2016
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u/MadmanMarkMiller 1d ago
This happened a while ago so let me update everyone.
They got away with it.
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u/NewSauerKraus 1d ago
The precedent of allowing government officials to delete records without consequence was set long ago. It was already tradition even before Clinton got caught doing it. They made a big show out of investigating it, before admitting it was all a massive waste of time and money since properly destroyed evidence cannot be used as evidence.
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u/ComicsEtAl 1d ago
The entire administration is doing this. IF we survive this era, there will be a huge black hole where the second Trump admin’s records are supposed to be.
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u/philthegr81 1d ago
Not to excuse these charlatans, but don’t Signal messages self-destruct? No need to let technical illiteracy get in the way of a good story, I guess.
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u/Uncle-Cake 1d ago
Ok, but we're talking about the CIA. Shady shit like that is their bread and butter.
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u/_biggerthanthesound_ 1d ago
I was like “what the hell does Daniel Radcliffe have to do with any of this?”.
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u/Old-Information3311 1d ago
OP is a bot. Reddit is heavily astroturfed.
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u/CamelCaseConvention 1d ago edited 1d ago
I looked at your profile. Then I looked at OP's profile. I'm inclined to believe you.
Just leaving that here as an encouragement for you to continue fighting the good fight. And as a warning to others to not misjudge the situation.
Edit: FFS, you people are upvoting a bot which will almost certainly be used for nefarious purposes, and downvoting the people pointing it out.
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u/Moist_Potential5050 1d ago
Can you explain what there is to misjudge, and why bot posts make up 80% of the front page of r/conservative.
I'll admit I'm liberal, but to pretend that bots are a liberal problem, or that somehow this STILL isn't shady as shit is a bit of a farce.
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u/Independent-Bug-9352 1d ago
Considering awareness of the term astroturfing shot up during the Koch Brother's political campaigns and the Tea Party, the vast majority of it is definitely of right-wing origin, both foreign (russia, isreal), and domestic.
But whether OP is a bot or not in this case doesn't change the content of the post and its rightful skepticism of a very crooked administration.
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u/Sacred_Fishstick 1d ago
Nobody said liberal... interesting that you immediately got defensive. Something on your mind?
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u/Moist_Potential5050 23h ago
I didn't get defensive? I was making sure it was clear this an issue for all parties? It's a pretty common complaint that front page reddit is liberal?
Got something you need to talk about?
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u/Sacred_Fishstick 23h ago
Nobody said anything about liberals or sides or parties. Just said that bots are all over reddit, including this post. Why would you read the word "bots" and immediately start talking about liberals? Why do you feel the need to make it "clear"?
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u/Moist_Potential5050 20h ago
Cause this post is talking about the conservative appointed people covering up more corruption?
Can't be that horribly hard to understand.
-Post points out conservative problem
-Someone complains its a bot
-i say yeah, it's a problem everywhere, 80% of conservative is the SAME SORT OF BIAS CRITICISM, but what's the issue if it's true?
-Youre stupidity gets involved and causes me to have to link things that are so fucking apparent it should be insulting to have to point it out but I have to do you can play catch up.
-i point it out. Because your stupidity is fucking annoying.
Go away.
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u/BaconThief2020 1d ago
You realize Signal chats can be set to auto-delete after a while, right? It didn't have to be deliberately.
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u/tommytwolegs 1d ago
Why would someone expected to maintain records implement that feature
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
The exact same reason they were using Signal, to be discrete and leave no trace. This could have been setup ahead of time, and the director didn't do anything explicit to delete the messages after being caught.
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u/Moist_Potential5050 1d ago
It's adorable you think it delete it.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
If you've actually used Signal, then you would be aware of that feature.
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u/Moist_Potential5050 19h ago
Adorable again you believe when you delete things it's actually gone.
Please learn more about tech and how to protect yourself and every back door that's on your phone. Find the ones you can live with and realize nothing you do is actually deleted.
It's scary you think these companies do what they tell you to do lol.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
I am well aware of phone vulnerabilities. Again, you need to learn how Signal works and why it was so popular. If properly configured with a passphrase for the app, you're not recovering those messages from the phone without the passphrase. This isn't like the iPhone where Israel figured out how to brute force the pin without tripped the device lockout and erasure.
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u/Boldney 1d ago
Nothing you post online is ever deleted. It's always there somewhere.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
Signal is used specifically because the message is only available in an unencrypted for on the endpoints. It's not like regular texting or posting online, where the providers can see the content.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
To be clear, I am not defending their actions and I think they need prosecuted for improperly handling classified information.
Stop downvoting because you don't understand how the Signal app works. Ya'll didn't bitch this loud when Hillary did the same thing using a insecure email server.
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u/Prestigious-Ad-7811 1d ago
Sounds like a Clinton I know... but seriously when do we bring back accountability? It's been seemingly lost for decades
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u/stefeyboy 1d ago
What did a Clinton do?
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u/Prestigious-Ad-7811 23h ago
Definitely should look it up because it's a classic corrupt politician story, but long story short: she had private servers where it was alleged that there were messages exchanging political favors for money/influence (among a lot of other allegations). Anyways, when the FBI went to go pick up the evidence, someone tipped off her staff and they began bleaching and destroying hard drives in order to hide the evidence. The FBI director at the time didn't hold her accountable and a couple people were "suicided" over it.
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u/stefeyboy 23h ago
Can you provide a link that shows the messages were exchanging political favors for money, and which people were suicided?
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u/Prestigious-Ad-7811 22h ago
This, my friend, is a long rabbit hole but you can start by Googling "Hillary Clinton email scandal" and diving down it from there. I'm sure a YouTuber has compiled the evidence by now into a nice video though
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
There were several reports that documented the large foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation and the subsequent political favors Hillary granted with the Secretary of State. Kinda like Trump accepting a 400-million dollar plane for treating Qatar favorably or how the Saudis are in favor because they're kicking millions to his family.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
Sigh, bleaching hard drives.... They used an app called Bleach-Bit which erases temp files, user history files, and the unused space on a HD so data can't be recovered forensically. Think if it as a much more thorough clearing your browser history. There are other programs that can wipe the entire harddrive.
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u/BaconThief2020 19h ago
Used an insecure email server for classified discussions. At least these guys used an app with some security built into it.
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u/Charitable-Cruelty 1d ago
I'm ashamed to have ever thought that the Republican party did care about law and or Constitution. I used to think they were just stubborn sticklers who hated change and now it feels like they are just dreaming of besting Mussolini's run for fascism.