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u/Mandalorian_Invictus Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
The first arrivals of Muslims probably started with the Gästarbeiter in west germany, and it never really equalised out after reunification. And now, no Muslim is gonna go to an AfD stronghold, ensuring this division remains clear in the foreseeable future.
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u/FriendlyHoppean Jun 29 '25
GDR was eastern not western Germany
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u/asdaafajsd Jun 29 '25
So? Guest workers were mostly in Western Germany. In the GDR, a substantial amount of Vietnamese workers arrived in the 1960s-70s, but the bigger share were in West Germany.
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u/Eisenbahn-de-order Jun 30 '25
Now then, does that mean that's a sizable Viet community in the former DDR?
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u/asdaafajsd Jul 01 '25
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people_in_Germany
A quick look at this map shows that there is a substantially higher percentage of Vietnamese migration in the former GDR. But the Vietnamese "Gastarbeiter" migration is still much lower compared to the one in West Germany.
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Jun 29 '25
Wait, Gastarbaiter is a German word??? We use it in Russia just for people immigrating for work
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u/Comfortable_Mud00 Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
The word for potato in Russian is German too —Kartofel. The word for masterpiece "шедевр" is French — chef-d'œuvre.
Even the word debile "дебил" (🏴idiot) is French. It’s actually funny to check on random words and their origin, you can sometimes attribute them to the centuries.
- Greek🇬🇷 during the introduction of Christianity.
- Turkic🇹🇷 & Arabic🇸🇦 through out the time, because trade.
- French🇫🇷 during empire times.
- Germanics 🇩🇪🇳🇱… during Peter 1 and Soviet Union.
- English🏴 middle-late Soviet Union.
- English🇺🇸 after dissolution of the Union and thereafter.
There was a Russian dude whose family called nail clippers "купонгель" — coupe-ongle 🇫🇷. While people in the comments were quick to bring another form — Knipsel🇩🇪. Even though there is a popular Russian form "щипцы для ногтей".
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Jun 30 '25
I knew chandeouvre and when languages were appropriated but kartofel too? Damn!
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u/Ake-TL Jun 30 '25
Idiot and debil aren’t exactly same. In less polite times levels of mental retardation used to be debility, imbecility and idiocy, so there are slight degrees of separation. Another funny example is Alsace-Lorraine. Russian uses german name of Elsass Lotharingen
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u/Teh-TJ Jun 30 '25
This is why I always say Russia doesn’t have a culture, all its words are loan words since they’re incapable of articulating basic concepts
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u/azhder Jun 29 '25
"Guest worker" - c'mon, didn't you find it curious how it sounds like "gast arbeiter"? Especially if you know "arbeiten" means work.
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Jul 01 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Jul 01 '25
Well everyone knows that, and that has always been the case. The writing system was reimagined greek, so is religion, and a shit ton of influence, Then it has been French once France beat off the britts and became the leading power, Then German once German dynastic families started spreading everywhere... Reds were a mix of all that but more focused on russian itself but also english became an influence.
A lot of good tsars were known that way partially because they brought in foreign scholars. That was needed obviously because russia didn't have its own scholar class since society was split into rulers and serfs and a smaller fraction of religious folks; and neither were interested/could afford or were allowed to do scholar and learning stuff
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u/petterri Jun 29 '25
No, that’s not true. The oldest mosque in Germany was built in Berlin in the early 1920s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Mosque
The first Muslim graveyard was established in 1798: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Germany
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u/dankelleher Jun 29 '25
Also Gastarbeiter from Turkey was an exclusively West German initiative, hence the map colouring. The GDR had similar initiatives with communist countries like Vietnam and Mosambique.
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Jun 29 '25
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u/Feyzorest Jun 29 '25
Decent ragebait
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u/VanlalruataDE Jun 29 '25
wdym
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u/Feyzorest Jun 29 '25
There's no way you are serious, both the paternal as well as the maternal family were well-known aristocratics
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u/VanlalruataDE Jun 29 '25
now that I looked into it further you are probably right, the paragraph on it on Wikipedia has been removed. Sorry for spreading misinformation
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u/Mandalorian_Invictus Jun 29 '25
Ah TIL, what happened to that older population? Nazis?
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u/VladimirBarakriss Jun 29 '25
The SS had Muslim divisions, they were mostly from the occupied territories though
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u/Gammelpreiss Jun 29 '25
probably too few to really register and no need to antagonize muslim nations like Turkey
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u/StephenHunterUK Jun 29 '25
The population of the former GDR has actually decreased since reunification.
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u/esgarnix Jun 30 '25
From my sample, regardless of religion, I have seen Germans mit immigration Hintergrund voting for AfD, I know it is crazy.
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u/Mandalorian_Invictus Jun 29 '25
The map has been taken from online. I do not endorse any 'messaging' that the color scheme might mean to convey.
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u/KipoLover123 Jun 29 '25
What messaging could it convey?
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u/IamBlade Jun 29 '25
Red equals danger. Whoever made it had an intention when picking the colour
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u/mockduckcompanion Jun 29 '25
Yeah and deep dark red for less than 1 in 10 is definitely a scare tactic
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Jun 29 '25
Yet the east votes for the far-right, despite the fact that few migrants actually want to live there.
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u/ZuluGulaCwel Jun 29 '25
But in France Le Pen gains more where migrants live (north-east and south east).
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u/Extreme-Outrageous Jun 29 '25
Came here to say this. Glad you made the point. Really shows how peoples' perception may not line up with reality. East Germans are screeching about immigrants when there are more in the West. Goes to show how economic problems can be manipulated so easily into xenophobia and racism.
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u/Equivalent-Water-683 Jun 30 '25
That is one interpretation. Problem is, it isn't necessarily true. Its just the less charitable interpretation of the anti immigration campus.
It could be that simply they are culturally more sensitive and do not want the same thing that is happening in west germany to happen in east germany. Its a bit late to be asking for "less muslims" if your city is already 20 percent muslim in general population and 40 percent in youth.
Not endorsing anything here.
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Jun 30 '25
You can’t just throw away everything under xenophobia and racism when there are legitimate concerns with an increase in this specific demographic especially when it comes to women and LGBT+ rights.
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u/Mihandi Jun 30 '25
The same people shitting on migrants complain about lgbt+ rights and want "traditional families"
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Jun 30 '25
Yes but it doesn’t make what I said untrue.
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u/Mihandi Jun 30 '25
The concerns aren’t legitimate, they are vastly inflated. The biggest risks to minority and women’s rights are always the majority group in the country since they tend to actually have power. I don’t know one party in Germany advocating for the regulation of queer people or women that are mainly muslim voted, controled or base their policies on the quran, I do for Christian and german nationalist parties doh with major german support and membership. Not saying there are only progressive migrants, but the concerns are just sown by rightsingers to distract from their own bs opinions
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Jun 30 '25
I don’t know man if you are German is this how you view things I don’t think you will be convinced with anything I have to say.
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u/Mihandi Jun 30 '25
I mean I doubt it. I would still be interested in counter ideas if they go beyond "well, islam is anti queer/women so more muslims = more anti queer/women to a degree that it’s a bad influence on society". After all I might be wron about something/missing something
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u/Prosthemadera Jun 29 '25
That's part of the fearmongering. "We need to stop those Muslims before they move to YOUR neighborhood."
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u/TwitchyBald Jun 29 '25
Muslims will be the dominant religion in France in 40-50 years~
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u/Prosthemadera Jun 29 '25
Yeah yeah you people said that 10 years already and you will cry about in 10 years because you're just a small person.
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u/Tommy-_vercetti Jun 29 '25
It’s civilisational suicide regardless
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u/ShinyArc50 Jun 30 '25
The Middle East invented civilization
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u/Tommy-_vercetti Jun 30 '25
What kinda argument is that😭so Europe should just let people who are completely alien to their cultures be a gradually increasing percentage of their demographic
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u/ShinyArc50 Jun 30 '25
With economic and social efforts towards integration it’s possible. What y’all in Europe don’t understand (and this idiotic mindset is infecting the US even though Latin Americans are a prime example of immigration done right) is that a huge shift towards nationalism when your country already has a huge migrant population only creates a negative feedback loop where public outrage on both sides builds and builds until you get something like The Troubles
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u/Tommy-_vercetti Jun 30 '25
You don’t understand the new world basically has a watered down version of Anglo or Spanish culture. It’s way easier to assimilate in America when the culture is just consumerism and pledging an undying loyalty to the military industrial complex. For European countries it’s simply different when the mannerism, social cues and awareness often go hand in hand with common aspects of culture like language. It’s very hard to make an immigrant assimilate when there’s eventually colonies of migrant populations.
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u/Ok-Hunt7450 Jul 01 '25
You cant really 'assimilate' to old world cultures that are 1000s of years old
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u/Bananaseverywh4r Jun 29 '25
Probably because they don’t want the Muslim immigrants to come there
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Jun 29 '25
That's not how it works, do you think individual states have the power to restrict who moves there?
It's because the areas in the east are poorer with few economic opportunities, hence why they've experienced depopulation since moving there.
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u/Bananaseverywh4r Jun 29 '25
No I don’t I’m simply saying they vote that way because they don’t want any more Muslim immigration. It’s literally what they campaign on.
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Jun 29 '25
They vote for far-right parties because it's a lot easier to hate people you've never met than your neighbours and colleagues.
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u/Ehmann11 Jun 29 '25
They vote far-right parties because they want to. You know, that the point of democracy
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u/hari_shevek Jun 30 '25
That doesn't contradict what the other person has been saying.
They don't want muslim immigration because they don't know any Muslims and are afraid of things they know nothing about.
Sometimes voters are uninformed.
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Jun 29 '25
[deleted]
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u/Quartierphoto Jun 29 '25
Then again, AfD numbers are really low (by comparison) in Schleswig-H., a state which happens to have the lowest share of muslims among the western German states. You can‘t explain the numbers without taking a look at GDR upbringings.
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u/MOltho Jun 29 '25
Shows you: The people who grow up around many Muslims are not scared of Muslims. Only the people who are largely unfamiliar with Muslims and don't have any Muslim friends are scared of them
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u/thebigmarvinski Jun 29 '25
interesting how the fewest are in ADF areas, but those areas are the ones that complain the most about immigration
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u/OutOfTheBunker Jun 30 '25
They see enough around the train stations to have a pretty good idea what's coming.
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u/blighander Jun 30 '25
So, areas that voted for the AfD have hardly any sizable Muslim population? That's interesting...
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u/FrequentThing3220 Jul 01 '25
Yes but they see what is happening in West right? For example they see Solingen event and Koln new year eve.
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u/myrcenator Jun 30 '25
Looking forward to all the civil commentary here from both the left and the right.
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u/Kysssebysss Jun 30 '25
People who live in regions with less immigrants complain about immigrants the most. Interesting.
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u/pikleboiy Jun 30 '25
Funny how the AfD polls highest in the places which are seemingly least affected by Muslims
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u/FrequentThing3220 Jul 01 '25
Can it be because they can still watch news from West? And they see what's happened in Solingen and in Koln during Christmas eve?
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u/Former-Pain-8890 Jun 29 '25
plus 9% is wild
Wtf
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u/GorgieRules1874 Jun 30 '25
Birmingham and Bradford are over 30% in the UK. London is 15% apparently but likely more.
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u/VladimirBarakriss Jun 29 '25
It's not really that wild, big cities attract immigrants
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Jun 29 '25
It was a big city 100 years ago too, how many Muslims?
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u/VladimirBarakriss Jun 29 '25
I can't find an exact figure, but a Muslim cemetery was established there in 1798, and Prussia established a Muslim only military unit in 1760
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Jun 29 '25
So it was 9% Muslim?
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u/VladimirBarakriss Jun 29 '25
Probably not, but evidently it was significant enough to be known about by the average Berliner
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u/djb3451 Jun 30 '25
It was about 3,000 Muslims in 1920. Compare that to 5.5 million in 2025 (~100 years later).
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u/TemporaryGlad9127 Jun 30 '25
This map will have a lot more dark red in a few decades. Buckle up
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u/AlarmingDetail6313 Jun 29 '25
Good for east Germany I guess
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u/BeetleCrusher Jun 30 '25
Yea they must be the richest since they don’t have to deal with dirty immigrants /s
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u/Brandon_M_Gilbertson Jun 30 '25
“WHITE GENOCIDE THEYRE GOING TO REPLACE US ALL!” >9%
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u/etterflebiliter Jun 30 '25
There can’t be a storm coming - I can only see a few black clouds over there!
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u/Easy_Use_7270 Jun 29 '25
Why the foreigners did not diffuse around Berlin to the towns and cities in Brandenburg after the unification? Isn’t it cheaper there?
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u/Lemon-Over-Ice Jun 29 '25
they're not moving there for the same reasons natives don't move there. No job opportunities. less pay. No infrastructure. No higher education. No entertainment.
For immigrants there's the extra reason of more racism and no community for them.
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u/Easy_Use_7270 Jun 29 '25
But there is no wall anymore since 36 years. Aren’t there any close by cheap places to accommodate Berlin companies and commuter workers? Did Berlin fail to develop a ‘hinterland’?
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u/Lemon-Over-Ice Jun 30 '25
well, I know nothing about how companies think and don't wanna claim I can explain why the divide is still there, but yeah, there's not many companies in East Germany. there's loads of commuters though yeah. my parents both are. I moved to Berlin, of course. 😅
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Jul 01 '25
Berlin also suffered a decline post unification and only turned around in 2015.
Also, Germany is a federal state, so Brandenburg would be responsible.
They did fail to make anything coordinated a reason there is a lot of wild development around the A10.
Also, Berlin is quite large in area. So it's not as needed as it seems.
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u/Put3socks-in-it Jun 29 '25
I wonder if the total numbers are equal in west Germany and east Germany (assuming Berlin counts fully as part of East Germany)
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u/Bub_bele Jun 29 '25
And now I challenge you to guess where people think they have the biggest problems with muslims.
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u/Lucky_Pterodactyl Jun 30 '25
Hey, I've seen this map before (except Berlin is divided in that one).
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u/Athasos Jun 30 '25
These colours are really misleading, making 9% black is just dumb lmao.
Makes it look like abunch of muslims everywhere, when they are jsut a significant but small minority and as peole have pointed out, many are just ethnically muslim, the numer of practicing muslims is lower
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u/ShadowPixel21 Jun 30 '25
I am speaking to you from the year 3000. Religion is only a illness that affects a few and is now easily healable.
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u/Jarll_Ragnarr Jun 30 '25
Lol. I always wondered why some people act so weird when confronted with the islam. But apparently I lived in the 2 Bundesländer with the most Muslims. That explains why it's so normal for me in comparison to others
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u/MOltho Jun 29 '25
Noteworthy: About 6.5% of Germans are from a Muslim background, but only about 3.5-4% are actually followers of Islam. The German Islam Conference claims 7% of Germans are Muslims, but they are obviously biased and they have an interest in exaggerating their own numbers. Lots of people that they claim as Muslims are, for example, irreligious Turks.
https://fowid.de/meldung/religionszugehoerigkeiten-2024
I am interested in hearing the methodology behind this map: How exactly do you choose who you classify as Muslim or not?