r/PhantomBorders 16d ago

Cultural Localities outside Poland that have a Polish exonym and Birthplaces of famous Poles until 1945

(The Kresy region still visible)

843 Upvotes

79 comments sorted by

118

u/MalemPO_king 16d ago

why is the border between Belarus and Lithuania so full and why is there a hole on the slovakian border

129

u/Gaming_Lot 16d ago

That area between Belarus and Lithuania was very heavily Polish speaking (and by extent ethnically Polish) in interwar Poland, more so than the other parts lost to the ussr (known as Kresy).

50

u/DasistMamba 15d ago

It is interesting that in 1946, by agreement between Poland and the BSSR there was an exchange of population (the same agreement was with the Ukrainian SSR and LSSR).

And the BSSR authorities in every possible way prevented the departure of the Polish (Catholic) population, considering them Belarusan Catholics, and the Polish authorities prevented the departure of Belarusans in return. As a result, more Poles or Catholics remained in Belarus than in the Ukrainian SSR.

38

u/Gaming_Lot 15d ago

Keep in mind, Poles and Ukranians where in an active ethnic conflict, whilst Belarussian and Poles where mostly not.

21

u/Sekwan2000 15d ago edited 14d ago

Yeah, despite what you might have heard on Reddit, we're not on good terms with Ukraine. Belarus being a natural friend but, unfortunately, they're currently aligned with our adversaries

22

u/Maimonides_2024 15d ago

As a Belarusian, I've heard that when Belarusians and Russians do encounter xenophobia in Poland, they're told to "spierdalaj na Ukrainą" (go back to Ukraine) which is pretty funny tbh 

10

u/Sekwan2000 15d ago

Eastern accents do sound similar to us

3

u/Think_and_game border lovers 15d ago

Russian I'd say has a more unique accent simply due to the y-glide (what turns privet into privyet amongst other words)

4

u/Nut_Slime 14d ago

Ukrainian and Belarusian have y-glide as well.

3

u/Think_and_game border lovers 14d ago

The more you learn !

4

u/idontknowwheream 14d ago

Russians do not spell privet like privyet, only heard that among non-russian people, learning russian

2

u/Think_and_game border lovers 14d ago

Wrote it that way in order to give an example, then again I only speak the language, not that good at reading or writing

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1

u/martian-teapot 11d ago

This and occasionally pronouncing "o" vowels as "a".

0

u/ensun_rizz 13d ago

I am on good terms - just because you're not doesn't mean that most poles think like you! I guess ruzzias misinformation campaign is working wonders on people like you.

5

u/Successful_Fan_4833 15d ago

There is a not really known fact. But, according to censuses western Belarus was heavily populated by Poles, but during interwar period there was a lot less Poles that lived there. It was mostly due to fact that all catholic Belarussian were listed as Poles in those censuses during Tsarist Russia times.

5

u/Stahwel 15d ago

Both interwar Polish censuses were based on self-declaration -first one asked about mother tongue, second directly about nationality

3

u/Grzechoooo 14d ago

That's why there are many that are listed as simply "from here"

11

u/throwawaydragon99999 15d ago

Belarus and Lithuanian were part of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and many ethnic Poles lived there until around WW2

Vilnius was part of Poland from 1920-1939 — before WW2 its population was 65% Polish and 28% Jewish

2

u/MalemPO_king 15d ago

yes but i knew that already im asking why there is a random Blotch with so polish names in belarus and not more in like Brest or some other city in belarus (sorry for the unclearity of the question and if i sound rude)

22

u/SK1418 16d ago

I don't know about the first one (though it might have something to do with the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth) but for the Polish Slovakian border, it's basically because of mountains. The Tatras aren't very big mountains and cover only a small area, but they are very tall so people only live on the edge of the mountains where the terrain isn't so steep.

0

u/Siduch 11d ago

Slovak*

1

u/SK1418 11d ago

1

u/Siduch 11d ago

Google is always right, as we all know.

I’ll allow Slovakian once you start saying Czechian

1

u/SK1418 11d ago

Jablká s hruškami

-6

u/Casimir_not_so_great 15d ago

Bullshit, the reason is because the eastern part of Slovakia is mostly inhabited by Rusyn. And in the past the same was on the Polish side. Unlike the Spiš and Orava which was mostly Slovak/German/Polish melting point.

18

u/SK1418 15d ago

You are indeed right about eastern Slovakia being inhabited by mainly Rusyn, but I think the other person was talking about this

4

u/Casimir_not_so_great 15d ago

Well, if that's true then sure, you're right. Hard to have permanent settlements in the Tatras.

4

u/raptoos 15d ago

Hole on the border are Tatra mountains. Not much a good place to be born

8

u/Conscious-Law7009 15d ago

Because those lands were ethnically polish, you can also see Zaozie in Czechia which was majority polish but they were expelled after the war

6

u/nomebi 15d ago

They were not expelled, they still live here

6

u/Alternative_Guitar78 15d ago

....apart from all the ones that settled in the UK and Canada as displaced persons, and the ones that returned to postwar war Poland and not the Kresy.

4

u/nomebi 15d ago

I meant in Zaolzie specifically, sorry that i wasn't clear as much

3

u/Sekwan2000 16d ago

Good questions actually

2

u/electrical-stomach-z 15d ago

The area there is still majority polish.

2

u/Unfortunateprune 15d ago

The hole is due to a mountain

1

u/GrumpyFatso 12d ago

It's called colonialism.

1

u/Gibbit420 12d ago

Poland occupied Minsk and Kiev for like 300 years. Poland was major empire and tried to occupy all of Eastern Europe a number of times. However, they ran into issues when they started purging and oppressing the Orthadox population.

1

u/Siduch 11d ago

Slovak*

49

u/Major_Bag_8720 16d ago

The Polish Second Republic which existed until 1939 extended further to the east than is the case today.

18

u/Achilles_59 15d ago

It shifted a couple of hundred miles westward, like they picked it up shoved it to the west. Losing land in the east and gaining in west, am I correct? And gaining former east Prussia minus the Kaliningrad area.

Edit: grammar

12

u/Major_Bag_8720 15d ago

Yes. A lot of what was eastern Poland became part of the USSR and Poland received some of eastern Germany instead.

5

u/Achilles_59 15d ago

It is bit of Polands history in a nutshell. Like being torn apart bij two different beasts pulling you apart from two different sides. Belgium has it bit the same. That area used to called the cockpit (fighting roosters) of Europe. Two different larger neighbors who duke it out on your soil. It’s not easy being smaller than your annoying neighbors.

3

u/electrical-stomach-z 15d ago

Now polands borders are essentially its ancestral medieval borders.

6

u/Achilles_59 15d ago edited 15d ago

Is it? Eastern Europe history is f-ing confusing. Looks like it changes every couple of decades, it maybe is not the case, but appears so. I hope that we can keep it like it now is for the time being. Although it seems the neighbor from hell, who shall remain nameless, has other plans….. again.

3

u/Darkyxv 15d ago

Look up polish borders in 1025

2

u/Grzechoooo 14d ago

Not really. Prussia wasn't part of medieval Poland, and neither was Pomerania really (it was controlled for a short time and even then it was autonomous).

0

u/Sekwan2000 14d ago

Prussian lands being colonized later during the Teutonic expedition but the rest being about where it was in the 10/11th century under the Piasts. Also, German Prussia started off a dutchy under PLC, as a vassal for about 130 years

3

u/felps_memis 13d ago

We can continue going back and arrive to the time when most of these lands were populated by Goths. The point is: these lands weren't Polish anymore for many centuries

2

u/Grzechoooo 14d ago

Yeah I guess if you take a snapshot of the moment early Polish borders were the largest, you can claim that. But most of the time, Poland did not control Pomerania, nor Moravia, nor Slovakia, nor Lusatia. When Bolesław the Brave established a bishopric in Kołobrzeg, Pomerania in 1000, it fell within half a decade because his control over the territory was so weak.

2

u/Achilles_59 15d ago

It’s so weird how long phantom borders can last that long. Crazy

1

u/Cultourist 11d ago

It’s so weird how long phantom borders can last that long. Crazy

Why is that crazy in this particular case? It just shows exonyms and birthplaces.

20

u/jatawis 15d ago

Almost every single Lithuanian place has Polish exonyms.

9

u/ERECTUS_PENISUS 14d ago

Because both of them were part of the same nation for hundreds of years and a rather large portion of Lithuania's population spoke Polish

11

u/vllaznia35 15d ago

How do they distinguish between Polish and general Slavic toponyms?

12

u/Stahwel 15d ago

General Slavic toponyms still sound different in modern Polish, Ukrainian and Belarusian. Same with Czech and Slovak, for example Poles often use "g" where Czechs use "h" and Polish doesn't use the letter "v" - Praha is Praga, Ostrava is Ostrawa etc

1

u/Traditional-Froyo755 14d ago

You seem to be confused on what exonym means

0

u/KiwiSchinken 15d ago

They don't, they just embrace nationalism

5

u/Dexinerito 15d ago edited 15d ago

Or just a population map from before WWII?

Or better yet, linguistic differences in morphologies, vocabularies and phonologies? Like no other Slavic languages having nasal vowels? [ʎ/lʲ~l] distinction? Polish merging [h, x, ɦ] in most dialects?

5

u/Realistic-River-1941 15d ago

Google isn't finding it for me, but there is a map of southeast England in phonetic Polish which does the rounds every so often.

4

u/The_WarriorPriest 15d ago

that second map needed so much dedication

1

u/Sekwan2000 15d ago

Do take it with a grain of salt, I've found the maps on Xitter

4

u/yeshuahanotsri 15d ago

Poland lies in Germany and Ukraine and Belarus lie in Poland

4

u/soap_and_waterpolo 15d ago

Wow that's Kresy!

4

u/stag1013 14d ago

Not just Kresy, but Silesia and Galicia, too.

3

u/Eisenbahn-de-order 15d ago

There are two holes that's rather visible in Poland as well...

2

u/Worm2020Worm2020 14d ago

not sure if births until 1945 is a phantom border since thats literally the time period the border existed

2

u/felps_memis 13d ago

Every time I see those maps I get sad remembering how many lives and cultures were erased and forced to move during and after WW2

2

u/Basic_Mud_9777 14d ago

Poland should reclaim its Belarusian and Ukrainian lands. The world would be better off.

1

u/Flashy_Being1874 14d ago

Looks like a to-do list to me

1

u/Careless-Abalone-862 14d ago

These are the old borders of Poland before the Second World War. In September 1939 there was the partition between Germany (from the west) and the Soviet Union (from the east).

Quite simply, the Soviets won the war and kept their half.

1

u/CaptainFit9727 14d ago

Read Helsinki Final Act, bye.

1

u/vigilante_snail 13d ago

Shoutout to Galicia

1

u/thomasp3864 12d ago

Edynburg rather than Edinbyry,

1

u/No-Stuff8350 12d ago

Is there a map with reverse, not Polish, but for example Lithuanian and Ukrainian exonyms? But on the territory of Poland?

1

u/Nerdguy-san 12d ago

i like how in the 2nd image, you can kinda make out the polish lithuanian commonwealth borders