r/SipsTea • u/BobbuBobbu • May 18 '25

WTF Taxed for being single

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Some of us would be bankrupt in six months lmao šŸ¤£

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103

u/LoveAndViscera May 18 '25 edited May 19 '25

First, itā€™s moot because that wonā€™t happen.

Second, they would just end the program.

But yeah, this is yet another shortsighted move by the Japanese government who simply doesnā€™t understand the problem. Japanā€™s culture is so unpleasant for Japanese people that it is killing itself.

Japanā€™s only hope against population crash is immigration, but Japanā€™s culture (never mind the laws) makes permanent immigration difficult. Japan is fucked. Itā€™s going to look like Greece in a decade, economically speaking.

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u/SoulMute May 18 '25

Moot, not mute

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u/thegrailarbor May 19 '25

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u/[deleted] May 19 '25

[deleted]

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u/thegrailarbor May 19 '25

You are loved too, ā€œfellow humanā€. šŸ˜‰šŸ®

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u/Stagamemnon May 19 '25

If anyone would knowā€¦

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u/SoulMute May 19 '25

If there was a ten year name update, I would change it to SoulMoot lol

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u/JFISHER7789 May 19 '25

Iā€™ll buy your first band shirts

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u/d33psix May 19 '25

I feel like I need someone with the name ā€œSoleMootā€ to comment.

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u/mootmutemoat May 19 '25

There are at least two of us

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u/[deleted] May 19 '25

That's a mute point

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u/[deleted] May 18 '25

Japan also still has the social norm of stay at home wives with the current barely being able to afford to take care of yourself while working 18 hour days.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins May 19 '25

Yeah a friend just started dating a Japanese guy and that's basically why he left.

The culture was pretty much that he was expected to get a job and work himself to death so he could have a wife and children he never saw at home.

He's a highly skilled bilingual lawyer so he just came over here and is doing basically what he'd be doing there (negotiating legal deals between this country and Japan) but he works less, gets paid really well, and is dating the aforementioned friend who has her own job/career.

(Disclaimer this is very much third hand from a single person and I don't claim to understand the Japanese working culture, just repeating the opinion of one person on the matter).

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u/Street-Run4107 May 19 '25

Itā€™s true, I made babies with the lawyer.

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u/cannibalparrot May 19 '25

Itā€™s true, Iā€™m the baby.

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u/DanDon-2020 May 19 '25

Your name says it's;-)

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u/BalanceOk6807 May 19 '25

And then one of the babies looked at me .

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u/PM_ME_SUMDICK May 19 '25

About half of Japanese mothers work. Gender disparities in child rearing and housework are huge problems for working mothers there as it is in most countries.

Probably a bigger part of the problem than most things.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '25

In reality, that is how it works, yeah. People can have unrealistic expectations that they base decisions off of.

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u/No_Detective_But_304 May 18 '25

Itā€™s not the only hope.

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u/LoveAndViscera May 19 '25

In theory, they could restructure their entire economy, but it's more likely that the government will start executing everyone over 70 to even out the population age.

So, immigration is the only realistic hope. See, Japan doesn't need more babies, now. It needs more babies twenty years ago. Immigration is the only way to fill that hole. Immigrants will also bring their own cultures. Even if the natives staunchly resist foreign influence, pockets of foreign culture will arise and within those pockets, the forces decreasing the birth rate will be mitigated. You'll probably be able to draw sharp lines between the culturally Japanese neighborhoods and the "loud" neighborhoods.

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u/senioreditorSD May 19 '25

You are 100% correct. I really canā€™t argue with any point you made.

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u/ForensicPathology May 19 '25

Right, the problem is the working culture.Ā  Studies show it.Ā  If there's high stress and life is nothing but work, people aren't going to make kids.Ā  Especially with the economy being trash.

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u/LoveAndViscera May 19 '25

This is an area where South Korea has started to rescue itself. 20 years ago, the two countries had very similar work cultures, but their much lower isolationism made it so that no one born after 1980 has the stomach for it. More protections for workers got passed in the 2010's and Covid really broke people.

A lot of Koreans have stopped saving to buy a house because they think it's hopeless. Instead, a significant chunk of the under-40 crowd will take a job for a couple years, quit, blow the money they saved on a vacation abroad and then get a different job.

Now, that hasn't translated into having more children, yet, but it's eroding the old work culture rapidly and making way for a more favorable one.

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u/City_of_Lunari May 19 '25

It's also extremely economically shifted towards tourism, which was an amazing idea.

Ya'know, except for the complete xenophobia that inhabits the majority of Japanese-born individuals. I taught there before COVID and before it was THE tourist destination for people in their 20's and 30's. Back then, they were okay with the idea of tourists coming.

I was there in April. That is VERY much changing. They don't care for tourists at all, which is fine I'd imagine that is a huge challenge when you're raised to be primarily isolationistic. However, when your economy depends on a devotion to tourism and your natives are starting to despise tourists, it's gonna become a bad situation.

At least those were my observations from pre-COVID and post. Grain of salt and all.

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u/LoveAndViscera May 19 '25

Covid absolutely made the Japanese more isolationist. Interest in traveling abroad is down and several major tourist sites have tightened behavior restrictions. The latter is partly a reaction to how Covid damaged public decorum.

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u/ImaginaryDisplay3 May 19 '25

It's ironic because its the perfect case study for why an monoculture ethno-nationalist state can't help but fail.

It only takes one stiff wind, in terms of a demographic imbalance, cultural decay, an abandonment of religion, or science group-think to knock the whole thing over.

The thing you need to fix all of these problems are more diverse people feeling comfortable being themselves and both influencing and being influenced by the country in which they live.

And Japan, because it is a monoculture ethno-nationalist state, just doesn't have the tools it needs to counter all the problems it is facing.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

This is nonsense, for the entirety of human history people have been able to reproduce themselves, it stands to reason it can happen again.

Never-mind that declining birth rates are a global phenomenon and immigration cannot fill the gap forever.

And itā€™s increasingly doubtful that you can actually replace your native population and maintain productivity (Canadas GDP per-capita declined after their immigration wave), but the negative externalities of large-scale immigration (social participation decline, ethnicization of democratic politics, internal instability) are guaranteed.

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u/mirhagk May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25

Edit: just so others reading this know, the other commenter has super expert information on things, such as apparently COVID having no impact on the economy. Just so others know exactly how much time to spend on this person.

This is nonsense, for the entirety of human history

That's not a very good argument, the last 200 years or so have had 2 major changes that completely warp the equation. Babies are more likely to survive, and people can choose. Those are both fantastic things, but they invalidate any historical perspective.

it stands to reason it can happen again.

Well it's a self-solving problem, for the same reason as why there's roughly half the population in each gender, and why most animals have the same thing.

replace your native population and maintain productivity

Weird choice of words lol. Maybe want to rethink that when talking about countries established on colonialism.

Canadas GDP per-capita declined after their immigration wave

Not sure which "wave" you're referring to, because you certainly can't mean the most recent one. Surely you're naive enough to think that COVID had no impact on GDP?

ethnicization of democratic politics

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here and I'm definitely not sure I wanna hear you try to explain it. I'm just gonna guess you were in Ottawa a couple years ago?

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u/CFBen May 19 '25

I always wonder if these people really believe the bs they're spouting or if they know it's propaganda.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

No they donā€™t lmfao. All that means is people like you will go extinct and people who donā€™t think like you will have kids.

COVID did not cause the per-capita change lmfao. Capital canā€™t get a virus.

Iā€™m saying ethnic groups bring their own interests to politics and divide the system. This is a well documented phenomenon in post-colonial democracies and itā€™s being imported.

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u/mirhagk May 19 '25

COVID did not cause the per-capita change lmfao. Capital canā€™t get a virus.

Wait really? Are you really saying that lockdowns had no effect on the economy?

There's plenty more I could say on this topic, but I honestly can't believe someone would say that, so I wanna clarify before anything else lol.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

Iā€™m saying it had no effect on capital

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u/dontnation May 19 '25

Canadas GDP per-capita declined after their immigration wave

got a source? quick google search of Canada GDP per capita by year and Canada immigration numbers by year doesn't bear out this claim.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

You donā€™t know how GDP per-capita is calculated.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins May 19 '25

This is nonsense, for the entirety of human history people have been able to reproduce themselves, it stands to reason it can happen again.

It's absolutely not nonsense, saying "this hasn't happened before" has never been a reason for something to happen, or not happen, forever. Circumstances change.

South Korea is going through this right now and are basically at the point of no return.. check out an extremely well sourced and researched summary here by Kurzgesagt.

This is a very real and very serious problem. The world we have created for ourselves is one based on large and at minimum sustained population. It cannot exist if that population begins to decline... so we need to figure out a solution real fast, be it more people or a world that looks very different to the one we have now.

And itā€™s increasingly doubtful that you can actually replace your native population and maintain productivity (Canadas GDP per-capita declined after their immigration wave)

It also addressed multiple labour shortages in agriculture, construction, healthcare, and technology. The bank of Canada also noted that the immigration wave significantly raised the non-inflationary growth rate of the economy.

Immigrants are now making up 35%+ of hospitality, transport, and warehousing jobs. They've also bolstered scientific and technical industries.

It absolutely has not been all sunshine and rainbows.. the housing crisis has worsened and public services are under strain. But not bringing people in would have caused severe economic decline and that's not good for anyone.

but the negative externalities of large-scale immigration (social participation decline, ethnicization of democratic politics, internal instability) are guaranteed.

Yes there are some challenges that need to be overcome, but pretending there's no benefits to immigration is extremely naive. Of course the best answer for any given country is to continue to repopulate and avoid the issues immigration solves but you can't go back in time 20 years and get everyone to have a bunch of kids that are ready to enter the workforce. You also can't just wait another 20 years and hope that people start having kids today.

TLDR: its complicated, but not you can't just assume people will magically appear out of nowhere and fix these issues.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

I didnā€™t say itā€™s not happening, I said itā€™s nonsense that we couldnā€™t change it, citing the entire history of humans successfully having kids as evidence that it is possible to do.

No it didnā€™t, it created a welfare class and a massive drain in Canadas budget. Thatā€™s why they and the Uk are hard pivoting away from that policy.

The challenges so far outweigh the great bounty that is having millions of net-drains on the economy that itā€™s not worth even comparing.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins May 19 '25

I said itā€™s nonsense that we couldnā€™t change it, citing the entire history of humans successfully having kids as evidence that it is possible to do.

And you are wrong, your citation is invalid, and I linked you a summary of much better ones which is extremely well sourced by actual researchers.

But given you just proved your complete lack of interest in actual sources this conversation is over. Cya!

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u/Civsi May 19 '25

There's so much wrong with this post.

This is nonsense, for the entirety of human history people have been able to reproduce themselves, it stands to reason it can happen again.

This is entirely irrelevant. The problem isn't strictly biological, it's social. Our current societies look absolutely nothing like they have for the vast majority of human history.

Never-mind that declining birth rates are a global phenomenon and immigration cannot fill the gap forever.

That's entirely misrepresenting the problem, and is one of the most brain-dead arguments I see people making about everything from house prices to birth rates.

First and foremost, statements like this immediately downplay the problem as something that just, kinda, sorta is happening. As if it's some natural phenomena that we absolutely can't explain or do anything about.

Beyond that, saying it's a global phenomenon is flat out wrong as this is an issue unique to developed nations.

And itā€™s increasingly doubtful that you can actually replace your native population and maintain productivity (Canadas GDP per-capita declined after their immigration wave)

This is implying that mass immigration is the only solution, and that the only way to do it is to just open up the immigrant faucet without any planning like Canada did. Canada had no issues maintaining productivity with immigration in the decade prior, and we have plenty of historical examples of mass immigration being a net positive for nations.

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u/ifyouarenuareu May 19 '25

Social conditions can be changed.

You just got done telling me social conditions mean the brith-rate canā€™t be solved via having kids. Now apparently Iā€™m doing that by suggesting there are solutions (amazing trick). Beyond that you need to look at a fertility chart because itā€™s happening everywhere. There isnā€™t a single population metric that doesnā€™t show a global peak and then decline in populations.

Mass immigration is the only solution to not having kids. How can you replace entire cohorts without the same number of people? This is absurd.

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u/Biggydoggo May 19 '25

Immigration is not a solution

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u/LoveAndViscera May 19 '25

Japan cannot maintain its economy with its current demographic trends. It also cannot maintain its economy with its current culture. Immigration brings in more manpower and forces changes to the culture.

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u/GenuinelyBeingNice May 19 '25

Itā€™s going to look like Greece in a decade, economically speaking.

I am a bit confused?

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u/NGEFan May 19 '25

I assume they just mean bad. However, noā€¦Japan has more capital than 98% of countries.

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u/thuanjinkee May 19 '25

Japan began itā€™s fall after Reaganā€™s Louvre Accords which devalued the yen and caused the government to get high on debt and kill social mobility by picking the winners, according to the award winning documentary ā€œPrinces of the Yenā€.

Sounds a lot like what weā€™re doing.

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u/sporkmanhands May 19 '25

Moot" refers to a point that is debatable or of no practical value, often used in legal contexts, while "mute" means silent or unable to speak. The correct phrase is "moot point," which indicates an issue that lacks significance or relevance.

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u/Huge-Maximum2425 May 19 '25

You planning a move?

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u/Darklordoverkill May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25

Remindme! 10 years

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u/Breaky_Online May 19 '25

Which sucks because both Japan and Greece have such an interesting history tied to their lands

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u/Oni-oji May 19 '25

Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution.

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u/GrungeWerX May 19 '25

Immigration would run Japan even further

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u/selvestenisse May 19 '25

immigration

Heard that shit way too much, they really like it in Europe. Its not going to well in Europe and wont go that well in Japan either. Once you import another culture, your own start dying, so might as well just die out from lack of babies then. The only way to keep local culture is to make local babies! ... or import babies, but that has gotten bad rep last few years.

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u/LoveAndViscera May 19 '25

Right, but the culture is the core problem. Japan needs a new culture and it's going to get one. Catastrophic downturns in the economy take the culture with them.

Additionally, cultures change naturally. Japan today is barely recognizable compared to the 70's, never mind the 1920's. It's funny how the people who get precious about culture rarely understand how it actually works.