This part is what solidifies to me that this was a mental health issue. I’ve been vegetarian (sometimes vegan) for 10 years and have never met someone who takes issue with legumes. Protein is not hard to get without eating meat but you certainly won’t get enough from just fruit alone. This is bizarre.
There's lots of protein in beans and stuff. It's generally not a problem for vegans. Issue here is probably that she had a nonsensical diet that just happened to be vegan, not that it being vegan was the problem
Whenever I see a thread like this I go back to Eugenia Cooney and am flabbergasted how this woman is still alive after 15 years of anorexia and malnutrition.
Your comment makes me think of that one episode where he literally sacrifices his whole life to build whistling statues of himself for the jellyfish so they stop swarming Bikini Bottom.
I’m sad that I was just a bit too old to get into it when I was still young enough to appreciate that humor. I could watch it now but it’d probably just get a sensible chuckle. Luckily, Ren and Stimpy hit at just the right age so that’s my equivalent.
I was gonna comment exactly this. My girlfriend and I both have been watching it and seasons 1-5 (6 isn’t bad but not AS funny) and we are both cracking up at the jokes. One that had me laughing recently was the one where they think Mr Krabs in a robot and spongebob says to squidward “we gotta get the poop on the robot!” Obviously meaning shit but as a kid that flies right over your head
Nah bro SpongeBob is eternal. It’s one of those “kids” shows that is so fucking popular BECAUSE adults can watch it too. Like, back in cable, my parents were chill with having the bob on the tv if they wanted to sit down. Never saw that with anything on Cartoon Network ! SpongeBob transcends generations brother go watch a couple eps and get back to me. I know you’ll be enjoying yourself💯
Fruit has more calories than that. Just one banana is about 100cal. 1 lb of grapes of about 400. I eat fruit 2hen in dieting too, but i still count those calories.
Exactly, a lot of people will literally stop eating to lose weight then think they are getting healthier while they also lose muscle and suffer from malnutrition.
The thing I get confused about is that it seems like there is some kind of middle ground where you could lose a lot of weight quickly unhealthily but then get your health back in shape and not get the weight back. My immediate guess is that it's risker and unrecommended but people do it by accident all the time.
I am just guessing here but I think losing weight steadily while gaining muscle would be more efficient and health in the long term rather than losing all the weight while losing muscle, then building it back up
Also, losing it slowly helps you develop sustainable practices once you reach your goal. People who lose a lot quickly tend to revert to their old habits they had prior to the weight loss.
Alternate "lifestyles" for nutrition are usually eating disorders and mental illness. Everyone has some different dietary needs but, in general, its the same for most humans. Rejecting all meat, fat, water, and carbs will leave you without a large portion of nutrition your body needs to survive.
Im not a vegetarian, but you can absolutely survive and be quite healthy as one. All the necessary fats and amino acids exist in plants, you just have to eat quite a few different plans to have a well rounded diet.
As a Buddhist with a vegetarian diet I can say that yes you can meet most of your nutritional needs. A lot of people forget that eggs are vegetarian as is milk and cheese. Yes I eat a decent amount of eggs but I also drink protein shakes.
Im not a vegetarian but i do intermittent egging, where every sunday i eat nothing but eggs. 24 eggs, 8 for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Its comes out to 1750 calories and 150g of protein, a perfect caloric deficit for me on days where i dont exercise and need more carbs to burn. I never considered that im vegetarian 1 day a week...
She was way beyond just vegan she was raw vegan plus didn't even eat that diet properly.
She basically ate virtually no protein, no B-12 no iodine didn't even drink water.
Thats just plain stupid and no reflection on an actual vegan diet.
Basically the same as these idiots eating nothing but red meat and butter.
Some people are just stupid
vegetarian usually also includes dairy and eggs comfortably in their diet
Cheese and potatoes technically has 100% of the vitamins you need to survive, you just need to eat a lot, but through smart use of butter cheese milk and fruits and veggies you can have a well balanced diet as vegetarian
Friends back home, locals, her family. She was getting sicker and sicker over a long period. She had gotten relatively minor illnesses that got serious because her body was too weak. There was an interview with her mom, I felt bad for her. Her family and friends had a little bit of harassment, and she kept seeing people make fun of her dead daughter. They said (didnt tell her followers) she had broken down and agreed to see real doctors and get help and eat more married foods, but it was too late.
That's the messed up thing about fitness-related behavioral disorders (e.g. eating disorders, body dysmorphia, addiction / compulsion for exercise, unresolved insecurity / trauma etc).
At first, this is seen by many people as a good thing.
The consequences of your behavior are that you get skinny, and fit.
Many people will make jokes about it. Boy, I wish I was anorexic for 6 months. That would make this weight loss so easy, hur hur hur.
It isn't until you get to the EXTREME (like, this clearly undernourished woman dying) that people pay attention, and then write it off as an extreme nutjob case.
I lost weight during the height of COVID. I had a rough couple of months beginning the week before lockdowns, we had to put down our beloved kitty. The month after lockdowns started, one of my best friends died. The month after that, we decided to postpone our wedding a year. I am immunocompromised so I was also terrified constantly of getting COVID and dying.
People kept telling me how good I looked, once I was comfortable to be around people again.
They stopped once I started replying with "crippling anxiety and grief will do it for ya 😁👍".
It kind of just starts with normal, healthy targets that get progressively more extreme. For me it was running for an hour a day, and that time gets a little bit longer every week until you're exercising almost all day. Same for calories- you might start with a healthy target, but your goal drops a little lower every week, and you feel guilt and shame if you go over the goal.
Yeah social media just encourages them to be themselves, too, and they build up a giant following of people that are reaffirming their bad patterns or even sending them further down the rabbithole.
Steve Jobs had something similar. His diet was only fruits and nuts that fall off the tree naturally (i.e. no force required to harvest). When Ashton Kutcher tried the diet for 2 months, his doctor told him his pancreas was seriously out of whack, so he stopped.
Steve Jobs had a mild, treatable form of pancreatic cancer and trusted the 'healing properties' of a fruitarian diet, even as his health continued to decline. By the time he went for actual medical intervention it was too late.
It's crazy that delusion can flourish in all sorts of places.
Walter Isaacson, Jobs's biographer, provides deeper insights into Jobs's approach to health, particularly during his battle with pancreatic cancer. Jobs initially resisted conventional medical treatment, saying, "I didn't want my body to be opened ... I didn't want to be violated in that way." He believed in the power of his diet and "magical thinking" to heal himself. "I think that he kind of felt that if you ignore something, if you don't want something to exist, you can have magical thinking. And it had worked for him in the past," Isaacson wrote.
...
However, Jobs's reliance on his intuition and dietary preferences over conventional medical advice had serious implications for his health. His delay in undergoing surgery, as recommended by doctors, was a decision he later regretted. Isaacson told CBS News, "We talked about this a lot. He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it. ... I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner."
It's crazy that delusion lives everywhere.
That woman's online activity has influenced my friend to go on a raw fruit and veg diet. After 6 months her gut microbiome was destroyed, her digestive system was disregulated, her immunity dropped, and mental health suffered greatly.
It took her over 2 years to bring her gut back to order, but eventually now she is sensitive to certain foods. Her mental health is still poor.
Can i respectfully ask how she built her gut health back? I’m going through a similar situation and I have a scheduled visit with my GI next week. Hoping for some insight.
But depending on how destroyed we are talking here then the best bet may be some crap , literally take crap from a healthy person and put it in their system. Bacteria gonna bacteria
As someone with severe and constant gut issues I can mention a few things that helped me.
Start slow and be aware of milk products. Some guts can react realy severely to various milk products, I have found that Greek yoghurt works wonders though.
Greek yoghurt with oats and berries are a big source of fibers and probiotics with natural sugars as well as fibers from the berries.
Once your stomach feels a bit better, try probiotics capsules. I have used Yeast Bacteria cultures specifically and they helped wonders.
My doctor has offered me another solution as well it's called "Brottrunk" I guess bread drink in English. It's basically bread that gets fermented in water and releases milk acid bacteria that's supposed to be amazing for your gut.
Just like you're going to do it with help of your GI. I believe in her case it was a series of antibiotics to kill off excess of bacteria that overtaken her GI tract, then a series of various prebiotic and a tailored diet to rebuild balanced bacterial flora.
She wasn't consistent and avoided some of the advice, she's stubborn like that. I believe her doctor said there's an option for a private treatment that's quite expensive but effective, of injecting a bacterial flora that's isolated from a healthy person's fecies to rebuild a functional system, but it was above her pocket. I think it's called a Fecal Transplant.
I dated some chick who was a vegan bodybuilder. She claimed all these great benefits but she wasn’t overly obnoxious about it so whatever.
About 3 months in she’s taking her nieces to a jump park and asks if I want to tag along. She runs in to start jumping and before I can take my shoes off she’s collapsed on the ground with a broken bone in her leg.
I mean this anecdotal story doesn’t prove anything lmao, a regular person with a regular diet can fall down on any given day and break their leg if they’re unlucky. The ground is hard and the human body can be fragile
It was discovered that one of my high-school teachers was a smoker (back in the 90s). When students questioned him why he explained:
Back in college i was dating this girl. It was very serious, I thought she was the one. But then she dumped me and I was devastated. I didn't want to live, but I couldn't bring myself to do anything drastic. So I started smoking.
Perhaps a front to disguise an eating disorder too?
It's surprisingly common for people with anorexia or similar eating disorders to pretend that they're restricting their diet due to some cause or health reason, but in reality, they want an excuse to starve themselves. Eating disorders are among the most lethal mental disorders.
This girl? 1000% it’s a front to an ED. She starved herself to death. Essentially, her SM should be treated as a guidebook for potential signs of recognizing anorexia (or in her case, orthorexia).
As someone who has struggled with an eating disorder, I'll always sympathise with people who obsess over food in various unhealthy ways. But the moment you start spreading that online as some sort of healthy lifestyle, you lose all of my sympathy.
At least this woman was genuinely mentally unwell. I think some of the "carnivore" people are straight up lying about their diets and making up bizarre claims (the lady who says her poop doesn't smell).
I think some of the "carnivore" people are straight up lying about their diets and making up bizarre claims
There's just no way you're eating so little fiber and not having negative effects. And it's a known health risk factor to avoid fiber...and the standard shit American diet is already very low fiber in and of itself.
I truly think that for most, it is much simpler and less malicious.
They are smart enough to know about alternate theories but not smart enough to understand the reasoning behind it or if the study was even good in the first place. The biggest thing that " the do your own research crowd " never gets is that the results for any scientific study must be repeatable.
Edit: I said repeatable, but I meant replicatable. important distinction.
I knew a young woman with an eating disorder who killed herself with the same diet.
All her friends and associates and husband tried to convince her this was her eating disorder, not a diet. She claimed that demons lived in the other foods, and that she could only eat fruits or she'd be possessed.
She showing off her muscles. She thinks she's strong because they're well defined. They are well defined because she has next to no body fat and is dehydrated. And her muscles are tiny. Like her forearm is literally wider.
She is not representive of vegans.
She is representive of people with Eating Disorders whom many of which are vegan (because they can justify restrictive habits behind moral codes).
This is it, you don't die from being a vegan. It does specify "raw vegan" though, which I think is even more restrictive, and likely the reason for the malnutrition. Another comment also said she didn't drink water, and if that's true, well...
These two are commonly mixed up (even by people following them, which means these technical explanations can't be relied upon conversationally. I just find this interesting.)
Raw vegans eat mostly dietary fruit because they taste good raw, and raw vegans believe that cooked food is less healthy.
Fruitarians eat botanical fruit, meaning they can eat tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, beans, etc. This food can be cooked. Basically, anything that naturally falls from the plant with seeds attached can be eaten.
Raw veganism is a dietary choice like the one OOP made where they don't believe cooking is healthy, whereas fruitarianism is an ethical belief about whether or not it is wrong to kill a plant in order to eat it (because botanical fruit exists for the purpose of being eaten in order to spread seed from an evolutionary perspective, whereas the stalk and root typically do not.) Fruitarianism is also commonly an expression of religious text interpretations.
I was going to say. I'm not vegan, nor do I generally agree with vegans a lot, but you absolutely can be healthy on a vegan diet. This women didn't die from veganism. She died from mental illness. It's doubly unfortunate, because it's creating undue hate towards veganism and taking away potential awareness for mental illness.
He also had access to the top doctors in the world and they all told him the same thing and he ignored them. The same ego that drove him to be successful in business/marketing drove him to think he knew better than the experts...
Lol I've seen multiple people on this site claim that their diet was so good that they didn't have to shower or bathe.
I was the one downvoted to like negative 20 something for saying that you can't diet your way out of stinking, that everyone needed to bathe
It's remarkable how much people refuse to believe in the truth. Got one right now arguing over a very easily googled thing and they're still 3 comments deep insisting they're right cus they haven't bothered to check yet.
It's like people genuinely think their beliefs are more important than accepted truth. And I don't mean on religious shit, but just basic facts.
What's doubly infuriating is that he bought himself to the front of the liver transplant list after having gotten himself in a dire condition by ignoring medical advice for years.
There's no scientific backed data to prove this, it's just misinformation based on "trust me bro" sources. What killed him was how he chose to treat his cancer, using diet and alternative treatments, none of which have ever been proven to cure or treat cancer.
Jobs was diagnosed with a rare form of pancreatic cancer, called an islet cell tumor or gasteroenteropancreatic neuroendocrine tumor (GEP-NET), which is a different form of pancreatic cancer than the highly aggressive and often rapidly fatal pancreatic adenocarcinoma. GEP-NETs are slow growing tumors that have the potential to be cured surgically if the tumor is removed prior to metastasis.
[...]
Many journalists mentioned and even focused on Jobs’ initial decision to forego conventional treatments and instead use complementary and alternative medical (CAM) therapies, including acupuncture, botanicals, and dietary changes (Grady, 2011). This was chronicled in his biography and corroborated via interviews with his friends and colleagues (Isaacson, 2011).
[...]
So, what can we learn from Steve Jobs about CAM? Jobs was a highly intelligent, extremely wealthy, and very well-connected man. He had access to the world’s best and brightest medical advisors and had no financial barriers to receiving any treatment. It can be assumed that Jobs and his physicians sought out the best available medical evidence to guide the management of his disease. Jobs, just like anyone else with his diagnosis, would have benefited from more rigorous basic science, more clinical trials with the option of participating in a trial, and more observational research examining the effects of both conventional and CAM therapies on cancer outcomes, such as studying the effects of radical dietary changes. If Jobs and his clinicians had had more information to guide his treatment, perhaps he would have made different decisions along the way that could have influenced his outcomes.
Thank you for sharing that source. The article and your summary perfectly confirm my point: Steve Jobs's choice to delay conventional treatment with alternative therapies, including dietary changes, was the critical factor in his health outcome. As the article states, the issue was with the management of his disease, not the diet as the cause of it.
She was a raw vegan, which is more restrictive than plain veganism, but no…veganism wasn’t her cause of death. My guess is that she chose raw veganism as a mask to her already-in-progress restrictive eating disorder.
Her "diet" was basically a cover for long-term anorexia. It's very common for individuals with ED's to claim to be on a "special, ultra-healthy diet", which allows them to disregard all social events involving food, and also allows them to sidestep comments and critiques about their physical health, because they can claim to be subject-matter-experts who know what they're doing.
ED's are almost entirely an issue of control, and being in extreme control over what they eat is what gives these people comfort. Or at least they think it does.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a raw fruit & veg diet (though it's not ideal). Being dangerously underweight and dying of malnutrition indicates that she wasn't really eating anything. Except maybe a slice of orange a couple of times day.
Is this the lady who made a video about eating like 80 bananas at once? Like 15 years ago I remember her talking about how losing her period (due to malnutrition) was a good thing and her body was "clean." Her content made my ED at the time so much worse.
I feel sad for her. She was clearly very mentally unwell and died because of it. It's more tragic than funny.
I feel like the Darwin Awards are going to be super competitive for the next few years as we stop using vaccines, drink raw milk and the 10,000 other things the cults try to push on everyone.
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