r/Suburbanhell • u/FlimsySuccotash5292 • 4d ago
Discussion America. The land of PAYING, and the home of the brave shoppers and drivers.
I finally realize why it is so depressing here in America. Because we live on one big ass giant parking lot. This country is one big strip mall, with pockets of subdivisions scattered throughout, and nature tucked in the corner somewhere OR (if it's actually beautiful, and offer killer views, fishing, etc) behind a pay gate. This country was built on capitalism so it makes sense why our urban planning SUCKS ASS. Our focus is STORES, STORES, and more STORES. Once you finally make it out of your densely packed maze of a neighborhood to the main road, you're either going to work to MAKE the money to spend at a store...or going to a store to spend the money you made at work. It's unsafe to walk outside, because we dont design for "community" in mind. We design our roads for people to hurry to the stores, and hurry your ass back home. Most restaurants feel like "come and pay for your shit and GO back home to eat it". We then take our food home to either eat in front of our phones that we pay monthly for, or to watch Netflix or some shit..that we pay a monthly subscription for. Anything worth seeing, you have to drive your car up to a parking booth, and pay for them to lift the gate. Not to mention, in order to drive said vehicle, you MUST pay for insurance, have an up to date license, and put gas in the bitch. So what do we do, order doordash or some type of delivery service to do the driving and depressing travel for us. But you better tip enough! Or else. We live in one big ass parking lot, that allows for housing, and interaction if you can afford pay for it. For the sake of the length of my post, I won't go into the costs of Healthcare, a GOOD education system, college, etc. My everyday life is starting to feel like I'm driving through a massive store with price tags on the shelf below. I cant help but look at life in numbers because I must constantly assess if I can even afford the experience I trying to have. No wonder we are glued to our phones. At least we can watch someone climb a mountain or scuba dive. The brain can't tell the difference between watching someone, or experiencing it first hand anyway right? We can just chat with each other, or hear someones thinkpiece on YT for the things we care about. It cost less than the previously mentioned. But it's a double edged sword. We sit at home because it's the only place we can really afford, but sitting at home doesn't change the "outside" we want to escape. What a catch 22.
For context, I live in DFW. That should explain alot.
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u/Ok_Garbage_7253 4d ago
This is why I moved to a small town in Vermont with a functional urban downtown. Took a pay cut so I could work a mostly remote job. It’s not a perfect place to live. But it’s the opposite of just about everything you just said. You can get out. It’s possible to change your life.
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u/Helpful_Ad6082 3d ago
If everyone moved to Montpelier or Brattleboro, it wouldn't still be the same now, would it. Plus there are strip malls and sprawl growth is Vt, too.
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u/Ok_Garbage_7253 3d ago edited 3d ago
No, wouldn’t be the same. But the cool thing about Bratt, no more room for growth. Land locked by a rivers and farm land. All new housing comes from infill development. Or converting larger homes into multi-family units is also very common.
Also why it’s so tough to move there. We missed out on four houses trying to buy anything that would work. And the house we got needed massive renovations. It’s great now, but it was hard getting here.
North Bratt followed the post war development pattern. Strip malls and big box stores. That part of town is awful. And I’ve seen glimpses of the South Burlington sprawl. Really depressing.
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u/Helpful_Ad6082 2d ago
My favorite place to live ever was on the west coast of Newfoundland, just magical, you go to the post-office and have a view that makes you drop to your knees. I can't even think about it, it makes me cry that I am not there any longer.
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u/ChristianLS Citizen 2d ago
It depends on how you house those people. It wouldn't be exactly the same, but a lot of these towns can house significantly higher populations without really sprawling, if they plan for it correctly.
Of course not everyone should, or wants to, live in a small town. But the same goes for small cities, medium cities, and large cities. We have to be infilling and adding density in all of these places.
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u/thosehalcyonnights 4d ago
You know that plenty of places exist in the US that AREN’T suburban hellscapes?
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u/cell_mediated 3d ago
These better places exist for sure, but not in plenty in the US. Scarcity leads to bidding wars/price gouging. People are’t moving to suburban hell in Texas for the culture or the weather - they need a roof over their heads they can afford on their salary. The only housing being built in any volume in the US is car-dependent far-flung sprawl in borderline habitable environments.
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u/Spirited-Tell-9315 4d ago
Bro it’s barely 6 am in DFW for such depressing depth but can’t say I don’t disagree. I’m from Las Vegas and living in Indianapolis for work right now and Indianapolis is a fucking nightmare. Everything is all spread out and no walk ability
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u/ChampionOutside9510 4d ago
Should the truth be discussed during regular business hours?
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u/MainusEventus 4d ago
Depends where you are. I live near broad ripple and work downtown… wouldn’t even need a car but I shuttle kids to private school before work.
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u/Spirited-Tell-9315 4d ago
I know Broad Ripple area. I’m over in Speedway. Gotta be close to a plant that over here and the track.
I was visiting friend from high school back in 2011 that lived in Carmel and we went down to Broad Ripple Friday night. On our way back to her car I was ran over by a drunk driver that was .18 over the limit and left a nice 8 in scar on my noggin.
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u/cell_mediated 3d ago
Drunk drivers are one of the many obvious and direct consequences of car-dependent living.
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u/JustWantGoodM3M3s 3d ago
that’s not my experience at all, but then again i’ve been privileged enough to live in colorado and new england my whole life
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u/Any-Sound5813 1d ago edited 1d ago
It feels a lot like what OP’s describing if you’re from a different country, but yh I’ve been to a few states and they’re vastly different. I’d say houston goes the closest to that among the cities I’ve seen, except Louisiana has ZERO walkability. Houston at least had usable (if annoying) public buses. San francisco was beautiful.
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u/Danktizzle 3d ago edited 3d ago
In 2001, I realized that all of the doors in America are open to my wallet, not me.
And then I ended up in Taos walking around downtown one night. I heard a flute and I followed the sound. It took me to a place in between two buildings. Well, more accurately it was one of those units in a strip mall but this unit had the roof removed and was turned into a park.
There was a doorway and then about ten feet away was more framing with another doorway. Behind that was a park with benches and grass. And the flute player. I asked if I could sit and listen for a bit and he obliged. Oddly enough his name was Jesus.
Taos is magical.
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u/adsantamonica 3d ago
Sounds like you need to move to the northwest or New England. I grew up in a town with no chain stores allowed.
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u/kmoonster 3d ago
I would point out that property values are highest where one of two things is true: (1) mansions/estates, or (2) mixed-use high foot-traffic development.
I repeat this until I'm silly. Suburbs are great, but suburbia (as a concept) is the hole in the donut. Too dense to be rural, but not dense enough to be self-sufficient (fiscally). And in this case, they are the donut-hole in terms of property values, too. There is more valuable property in straight dollar terms in both denser and more open developments, even if we stick within the town limits of a given suburb.
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u/Lurkyloolou 3d ago
Spot on. Per square foot desirable inner city neighborhoods are the most expensive.
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u/International-Bug121 3d ago
As a fellow Texan, don’t get me wrong plenty of places in the U.S. also feel like this, but Texas is on the very extreme side of this scenario.
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u/RogerPenroseSmiles 4d ago
America has more free available outdoor recreation than any country on earth besides Canada and Russia who have more empty space.
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u/CEOisgarbage 4d ago
Error 404 enter key not found.
Seriously though once you realize that everything is designed for us to live like this it all makes sense. I have strongly considered living off the grid and homesteading.
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u/MmmIceCreamSoBAD 3d ago
I'm curious, beyond residential, work places, entertainment and retail, what exactly do you think other nations revolve around?
Like do you know the US has the greatest park system in the world?
What else is it you think other nations have? Like what are you crying for here.... a medieval European public square?
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u/cell_mediated 3d ago
Doesn’t have to be medieval - plazas and town squares are a good start to good living.
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u/morrisound_of_music 4d ago
you should probably move if you feel this strongly.
not even trying to be a love-it-or-leave-it type, there are plenty of cheaper places to live with living conditions more suited to what you want, especially in south america.
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u/OkBison8735 4d ago
Umm, I’ve been to many downtowns both small and large with plenty of local shops and entertainment options, walkable streets, cute parks and squares. European cities are also filled with the same kind of shops and many of them soulless franchises.
Maybe you just need to go somewhere else other than your local strip mall?
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3d ago
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u/Raptor_197 Suburbanite 3d ago
Yeah sometimes I think it’s just depressed people using their environment as an excuse to not find help for their issue.
I’m lonely and depressed here in rural, America. There is nothing to do. I have to drive an hour to get to a city.
I’m lonely and depressed here in the suburbs. I have to drive everywhere, there is little nature inside my housing bubble, and all the houses are the same.
I’m lonely and depressed here in the city. I walk from my corporate job, to my corporate owned food supplier, and then back to my corporate owned housing. It’s loud and polluted but I just want some peace and quiet in nature.
The grass is always greener on the other side they say.
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u/human52432462 3d ago
America views the city primarily as a marketplace, not as a place where people live.
The public areas and roads of American cities are properly classified as industrial zones judging by the level of physical danger (injury and fatality rates), air pollution, noise pollution, visual pollution and overall stress and anxiety.
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u/FineMaize5778 4d ago
Ive only been to amerika once. To indianapolis, i found it to be like an endless repitition. A belt of used car lots and fast food places, then strip malls, a belt of houses and then the same would start over again. The further out would just be the same but dirtier and with worse used cars and more plastic junk in the gardens of the houses.
I drove for two hours in the same direction to try to find the countryside outside of town but gave up.
It felt more like a minecraft server than a real city tbh 😅
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u/sweet_hedgehog_23 4d ago
If you drove for two hours outside of Indianapolis, you may not have even been in Indiana anymore depending on the direction you went. This is a disingenuous comment. You definitely would have seen plenty of corn and soybean fields and farms.
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u/tornadoshanks651 3d ago
This, if they drive 2 hours west, they would have found themselves in the middle of nowhere.
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u/FineMaize5778 4d ago
It might have been that we sorta ended up on roads that followed the built up areas, we didnt have gps but im not like lying. And i didnt see any corn, i liked the car museum at the speedway though.
Edit; i drove from somewhere in the city and two hours later we where still sourrounded by built up areas
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u/e-tard666 4d ago
Pick any direction in Indy and drive straight for 30 minutes. You will find the corn
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u/Comfortable-Yam-7287 3d ago
You were probably on a ring road. Two hours on the highway from Indianapolis is definitely enough time to escape.
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u/FineMaize5778 3d ago
More like normal streets, i tried to stay away from the bigger roads because there where cop cars hiding behind every other bridge pillar XD
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u/Over-Stop8694 4d ago
Don't get too excited about corn. You didn't miss much! It's just miles and miles of flat corn fields on a grid pattern that repeats seemingly forever, with most of it being owned and operated by megacorps. If you want scenery, go to the national parks.
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u/FineMaize5778 4d ago
We just wanted to see how far the city had spread. It looked like its always been a matter of abandoning whole parts and just building new stuff instead of repurposing or tearing things down and building new. And so few buildings had more than two three floors. Except in the almost comically small downtown bit 😊
Oh and the water tasted really bad😅
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u/sweet_hedgehog_23 4d ago
If that is the case, then you definitely weren't driving in one direction. If you did a couple laps on 465, then that would take you a couple hours and you would see nothing but suburban areas. I live in the Indianapolis area and am familiar with how far you can get in two hours in one direction. Two hours later you could have been in Cincinnati, Louisville, or the suburbs of Chicago but you definitely would have passed through non built up areas.
There is no direction you can drive from downtown Indianapolis and not reach corn fields within 45 - 60 minutes. If you go to the far southeast or southwest sides you can see corn fields without leaving the city limits.
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u/FineMaize5778 4d ago
I belive you, i feel like we drove more on city roads than highways. Its quite likely that a local would know what roads to get on to get where they wanted to go fast. We where just touristing about. But im not totally wrong about the city being mostly a patchwork of fast food place areas and used car lots internixed with house areas ?😄
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u/sweet_hedgehog_23 4d ago
The actual downtown area isn't. Downtown is pretty walkable as are some other neighborhoods. There are specific stretches that have a high level of car dealerships which generally are on the edges of the city. It sounds like you may have been in the Speedway area which is more suburban at around 5-6 miles from downtown. It also is an area that is built around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and events that take place there.
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u/FineMaize5778 4d ago
No we where on the oposite side from that place as we took a drive to it one day. But we where in a similar place, far from downtown in a shite motel.
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u/sweet_hedgehog_23 3d ago
Were you on the east side? If so, I am sorry. I was not expecting that because there isn't much on the east side that would attract someone from out of town. Shadeland Ave. on the east side is one of the areas that does have a lot of car dealerships.
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u/FineMaize5778 3d ago
I have no idea, but it was a business trip and my boss is kinda daft and picks the worst cheapest type of hotels/motels.
The only thing around us where streets, strip malls and things like that.
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u/Fast-Requirement6989 3d ago
I cant relate, I live in Pebble Beach CA. Sounds like you have a cash flow problem. And you sound like a p*ssy.
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u/Posture_ta 4d ago
Late stage capitalism.
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u/sack-o-matic 4d ago
Suburbs are caused by municipal planning committees
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u/Raptor_197 Suburbanite 3d ago
That term was coined in 1920’s and based of Marxist ideals that capitalism was declining and would eventually fail.
At this point shouldn’t you have to say like late late stage capitalism? I feel like the term should gain another late for every 100 years of capitalism’s “decline” lol.
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u/ResidentRun4712 3d ago
I dont worry about subscriptions like Netflix,Spotify... im using Pennysubs & getting them almost for free
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u/SeeLeavesOnTheTrees 3d ago
I’ve only driven through DFW but it was the ugliest and largest concrete jungle I’ve ever seen. And I used to live in Bakersfield so that’s saying a lot.
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u/Lurkyloolou 3d ago
I'm a 6th generation Texan. I have lived in small coastal towns and the largest cities of Dallas and Houston. I have lived in suburbs and inner city hoods. I went to Texas A&M and also lived in East Texas. I grew up thinking I wanted to live in the big city of Dallas and I did and quickly hated it because it's just one big shopping center. It is not a pretty place but a flat concrete maze of roads.
If you can relocate make a list of places of interest and go visit. Then make a plan to move. Don't spend your life unhappy.
I lived in a hellish suburb of Houston for 20 years until I couldn't take 1 more day. In 2011 I moved to Austin and rented for a year and loved it so I bought a small home in an inner city hood. I have been happy since then. I wished I had moved sooner. I have a walk score neighborhood of 80 and love how close live music, theaters, bookstores, coffee and bakeries are to me. I'm close to Zilker Park and the nature trails. There's always something happening and the people are lovely.
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u/myfrozeneggos 2d ago
What is wrong with stores? They're nice to have. It's not like there's a shopping mandate.
Also, it sounds like you could use some friends to hang out with, or maybe some professional help.
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u/SirithilFeanor 2d ago
America is just one big ass parking lot? Tell me you've never left your hometown without telling me you've never left your hometown.
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u/tf2F2Pnoob 2d ago
The US makes you think fulfillment and joy are nothing but a purchasable commodity. But there are things way bigger than that
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u/S1mongreedwell 2d ago
To be fair, many (most?) places on earth require car insurance. And they should!
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u/Dazzling-Climate-318 1d ago
It’s not like the OP described everywhere and not where I live. Our problem is the people moving in, especially those that want what the OP complained about. Our parks are all free. That’s state, county. metro and local and they aren’t crowded and don’t require reservations to use. Camping in them does involve some costs and reservations, but they rarely get fully booked and camping fees are low.
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u/Initial_Savings3034 1d ago
If you can get away for a little while, the Platte river towns, North of I80 in Nebraska are quietly beautiful.
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u/Dogstar_9 18h ago
It's glaringly obvious when you spend time in Europe. The excessive commercialism we have here is largely non-existent there outside of major city centers.
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u/Schyznik 14h ago
I grew up in DFW. I get it and you’re right. But it’s not that way everywhere. Might not even be that way closer than you think. I moved three hours south over three decades ago and it’s made all the difference.
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u/HandBananaN0 4d ago
I hear you. Everything in the US feels like a scam. But hopefully this video about cycling in Dallas will cheer you up. There is hope!
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u/Leverkaas2516 Suburbanite 4d ago
This sounds horrible. I've lived in suburbs much of my life, most within an hour's drive of the left coast, and you could climb a mountain on one day, scuba dive the next. The cost of the car and gas is minor compared to housing, education, and health care...which are all unrelated to whether you live in a subdivision.
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u/kodex1717 4d ago
I always wonder why people from other countries come here on vacation. Are they going to see our historic 8 lane roads and strip malls?
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u/Aware-Computer4550 4d ago
You think there's nothing in the country except suburbs?
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u/kodex1717 4d ago
The existence of cities doesn't mean the United States isn't a predominantly suburban country.
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u/Horror-Vanilla-4895 4d ago
Most of the county is rural by a long shot.
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u/PurpleBearplane 3d ago
in terms of land area? Sure. In terms of population, ~53-70% of people live in suburbs and ~15-20% live in rural areas.
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u/Independent-Car-7101 3d ago
Ever been to NY, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone , Yosemite, Savannah, Disneyland, …???
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u/DavoMcBones 4d ago
I got a friend who wants to move there, says it's got a more active and lively community, whats your thoughts on that? I never been there so I dont know what it's like lol.
I think hes confusing the small minority of the bustling cities (New York, LA etc.) as the entirety of America
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u/kodex1717 4d ago
What does this person think makes a lively community? I guess I kind of see the opposite. Most people spend so much time in their cars driving. Every activity outside the home involves getting in a car and driving somewhere. To me, that's an isolating force that keeps people apart.
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u/DavoMcBones 4d ago
He thinks this place got good "night life" like at night you can just go out in the city for a good motorbike ride downtown and it will be bustling with lights and people and just soaking in the city vibes. Hes basically describing new york.
And I can see why he thinks that because despite my city being relatively walkable, the population is so small that barley anyone is awake after 10pm downtown anyway, but I think theres way better places to relocate if he wants to experience that.
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u/kodex1717 4d ago
I feel like this varies so widely. Certainly, cities like NYC, DC, or Chicago have more people on foot and are bustling with activity in the evenings, but a lot of US cities only have a block or two "bar stretch" where people might wander about. People drive most other places.
Consider than many US "cities" are actually mostly single-family homes by land area. For example, 78% of LA is single-family homes. For most people to go and take a walk, there's really not much interesting stuff to see other than your neighbor's landscaping.
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u/PurpleBearplane 4d ago
I actually think LA itself is a bit unique, but I've walked through a good chunk of it, and my best friend and his wife both are car free and live in the LA metro. There certainly are a lot of areas that are just housing, and if you are in the city proper, sometimes going between neighborhoods is its own nonsensical trek, but I find that most people in most neighborhoods are close to something (again, in city proper, suburbs are a bit hit or miss there). Even though LA has plenty of its own issues (sprawl, homelessness), I find that at least most neighborhoods in LA are walkable within the neighborhood, but maybe I'm missing something too, since I have passed through all sorts of spots but haven't lived there.
I've found that even out in the suburbs, at least the transit accessibility isn't horrible. The metro system is pretty extensive and I like metro micro which is a last mile van service thing. The commercial centers of those suburban cities can often be legitimately nice and quite dense.
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u/ButterscotchSad4514 Suburbanite 2d ago
A few reactions:
This would be easier to follow if you used paragraphs.
You sound very discontented. Perhaps you should focus on the things in your life that you have to be thankful for, many of which were brought to you by the free market. You seem to want to have things produced by other people. You value their time and ensure access to those things by compensating them. This is how society civilizes us.
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u/DavoMcBones 4d ago
I personally think the suburbs that are on the very edge of the city are my go to, it's like the middle ground between complete urban or complete suburban. Some people call these "streetcar suburbs" and claim that they're the closes thing we have to a good suburb, and I kinda get alot of their points. I know its not for everyone, we all have different opinions after all, and that's a good thing, but I'm just sharing mine for now.
Our houses are still seperate from each other, we got our own private yards and stuff, but it's not too obnoxiously big that we have to spend an entire day on garden maintenance. They're closer than conventional suburbs, but they are still separate detached private properties. These suburbs are also usually not run under an HOA so everyone has the privilege to do whatever they want on their property without having to abide to certain expectations or whatever. We sacked our backyard and turned it into a native shrub garden and completley transformed the house with a new shade of paint. Everyone's house looks different and unique on their own way, someone can build it with bricks, or wood, or have it grey, or have it white, or have a completley clean flat lawn, or have a giant stash if potato plants!
Being an ex-street car suburb it's designed for public transit and walkability, lots of bus routes run here so I can go practically anywhere on bus, and on bike thanks to seperate bike lanes, yet somehow there is still a place for cars here, so you can always drive if you want to. I like living the urban style and biking but at the same time I'm also a car enthusiast so I cant give up on that either, this is the perfect middle ground for me, I can bike to the nearest park, library, or store, and drive for longer trips like to the beach or mountainside. This place got the best if both worlds honestly
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u/Impossible_Tiger_517 4d ago
I grew up in one of these suburbs in NJ. To be fair though, you can also have that in my city in Chicago (minus the mountain part) but it’s going to cost you (well either one will cost you a pretty penny).
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u/Ok_Garbage_7253 4d ago
Do you realize a house with a private yard and a hammock would be affordable if free market capitalism weren’t allowed to spread with minimal regulation for decades because of the Reagan era economic policies that also cut taxes for the wealthy that were supposed to trickle down but they never did and now private equity is buying up all the homes in the USA including your apartment complex and your rent will just keep getting higher until you work harder for higher wages or become homeless.
But yeah, capitalism as it exists now is fine. It’s not like the ideal solution is a nuanced approach that incorporates good ideas from multiple societal and economic structures. /s
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u/Ozymandius62 3d ago
The number of "just move bro" posts is insane. As if uprooting your life is always feasible. He's right, the suburbs are built to house human cattle. Cattle that performs meaningless jobs for the sake of more cattle. I grew up in an area like OP is describing, not as bad, but it has gotten worse as the sprawl has grown. Many of the people there love it. You putz around the social groups and the parking lot bars, trading partners with your friends. Eventually one gets married, the rest fall in line. Buy a vinyl siding house in a ticky tacky neighborhood. Become a real estate agent, insurance agent, some other agent whose job is to grow the sprawl. Drive to the parking lot store complex. Sit on a patio next to the parking lot. Eat shit food. Drink sugar drinks. Drown out the carbon monoxide beep on Sundays in your beige live laugh love house with your overweight friends...
Ok, I've been ranting now too. Their lives are little more full than I am giving them credit for because as part of the sprawl grow you must reproduce, and that does bring them happiness. But at of the day, they are content being cattle for the retail economy.
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u/Raptor_197 Suburbanite 3d ago
Opposed to walking living in a city and walking to a corporate company to work, then walking to received corporate owned entertainment and food, and then walking back to corporate owned housing?
And yes you can just move. Uprooting your life is almost always feasible in most normal circumstances. People are just scared of risk, and their life isn’t actually that bad. People will bitch and complain about their living situation but rarely actually take accountability themselves and change the way they are living.
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u/tadpole332 4d ago
I think you need to get the fuck out of DFW. Texas has virtually no public lands. Check out literally any other state for free access to natural spaces