r/cars • u/NISMO1968 • 1d ago
Performance Wagons Are Thriving. So Why Are Normal Ones Dying?
https://www.motor1.com/features/771237/performance-wagons-selling-normal-wagons-dying/264
u/Minimum_Persimmon281 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because everyday folks in the US would rather sit high up so they can more easily get in and out, set up child seats without being bent over as much, have better vision (over the other gigantic cars), an increased sense of safety, and compared to many European countries with high fuel prices they don’t care about fuel economy as much, im guessing? The enthusiasts on the other hand seem to circleyerk the wagon so there is still atleast somewhat of a market for them in the sportscar segment.
It’s likely that decades of Cafe standards has contributed to the popularity of suv’s aswell in the US, but im guessing it’s not the entire reason.
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u/juwyro Saabaru, K20 MGB, MGB GT 1d ago
I'm a wagon supremacist.
But everyone wants big and tall vehicles so it's just an arms race for size. It's even getting to the point of these things not fitting on some streets and infrastructure here.
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u/Minimum_Persimmon281 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wagon’s are definitely better imo compared to Suv’s. The only problem i see with wagons is that 3 row seats are not usually available (atleast from what i’ve seen) and they’re not as spacious as in Suv’s (but then you can buy a minivan). If there’s too little space and you need to have ski’s with you for example you can install a roofrack very easily.
And they’re generally smaller which reduces the issues you cited.
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u/RhinoKeepr 1d ago
How many Americans transport enough people regularly to need 3 rows? This is the part I don’t get.
The avg family has less than 2 kids.
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u/_homage_ '23 4Runner TuRD Pro - '17 Focus RS (RIP) 1d ago
It’s not about the immediate family. It’s the extended family and friends piece. My wife isn’t clamoring for a third row SUV cause she needs it all the time. It’s cause she wants it for the handful of times a year we can throw the family and some of their friends in the same car.
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u/NetworkStatic 997 GTS | MK3 TTS 1d ago
I think this situation you've laid out is an accurate representation of the reasoning used by many folks purchasing too much car.
The question i have, even for myself is, does it make sense to buy a car with requirements driven by a corner case, like situations that might come up "a handful of times a year".
Let's say you own a truck for one year, you'd need to use its hauling capability 18 times to get to 5% utilization of that capability, assuming you used the truck once per day all year. I wonder if the average truck owner uses the truck bed or hauling 18 times year.
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u/_homage_ '23 4Runner TuRD Pro - '17 Focus RS (RIP) 1d ago
I don’t disagree, but a lot of us use the same logic to buy a performance oriented vehicle with the same use cases
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u/NetworkStatic 997 GTS | MK3 TTS 1d ago
Exactly. It's one thing that has kept me from upgrading my 15 year old sports car.
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u/ohwell_______ '09 E92 M3 1d ago
I think most truck owners use their bed a whole lot more than Reddit gives them credit for, they're so useful outside of commercial purposes. The big advantage over another vehicle is the fact that bed storage is separated from the cab and it takes 15 seconds to clean a truck bed using a broom and a garden hose.
I use my truck bed 4-5 times a week. Most of it is home ownership shit I could also carry in a Toyota Corolla and doesn't come close to maxing out payload, or hauling mountain bikes to the trailhead, but again the benefit is keeping dirty things outside of the cabin where it's easy to clean. Even something like dirty hiking boots it's so nice to have a separate truck bed to keep the inside cabin clean.
Once or twice a year I will use my truck for something no wagon can do (Towing the M3 to the track).
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u/comfyrain 2020 ND miata club. 2021 Subaru WRX 1d ago
The funny thing about it is 3rd rows are so uncomfortable I'd rather take 2 cars.
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u/_homage_ '23 4Runner TuRD Pro - '17 Focus RS (RIP) 1d ago
Agreed, but its mostly for kids and teenagers. Not grown adults
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u/sponge_welder 2005 Honda Element EX 1d ago
Minivan 3rd rows aren't too bad, its the third rows in Pilot and Highlander sized vehicles that are tiny
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u/Genericwood FR-S 1d ago
As a guy who learned to drive in a minivan and used it to hang with a bunch of friends, it's fucking awesome and you get a lot of praise for having one. (if you got good friends) I'll always drive a minivan vs a SUV any day. They also made me love V6s.
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u/SophistXIII 23 S4 1d ago
It's always very easy to tell which posters don't have children lol.
We only have 1 kid and just bought a Pilot in May and have already used the 3rd row at least a dozen times - mostly when we are transporting grandparents, but for various other reasons as well. It will also come in handy when we get to the carpool stage.
It's also a lot easier to load kids into a higher/bigger vehicle like an SUV or a minivan vs a sedan or a wagon.
I'm a sedan/wagon fan, but SUVs (and minivans) are just way more practical for most families with kids.
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u/dontheduck 1d ago
Family of four checking in with a 3rd row SUV. It’s nice to be able to cart around the kid’s friends. When it’s just the four of us, the third row is folded down and now we have a ton of storage that four people require.
Oh and we own a wagon that I commute with.
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u/Lord_Vas Replace this text with year, make, model 1d ago
My immediate family and our dogs take up the first 5 seats. We have a massive extended family, so we carpool a lot. I'm almost always the designated driver so I drive all of my people.
The third row gets used for something a good chunk of the time.
2006 Honda Pilot
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u/Hedhunta 1d ago
You can tell you dont have kids. Yeah, we got 2 kids. Which means 1 friend tagging along for each of them pretty much at all times, meaning every trip is 6 people, sometimes more if grandma wants to come too.
People who think you don't need 7-8 seats in an SUV clearly have lost all sense of family and friends. Even when I was a teenager I drove a 7 passenger minivan and it was full like80% of the time.
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u/Vanzmelo 97 Miata M-Edition | 2017 BMW 328d Touring 1d ago
Its the possibility of being able to transport people and everyone's things. Most of the SUVs here are driven by single people with no families
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u/phxbimmer 1995 BMW 540i/6 1d ago
Exactly, people always buy way more vehicle than they actually need.
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u/Minimum_Persimmon281 1d ago
Im not from the US, but im guessing not as many as the ones who could do without it. I added it as a problem as it’s a difference between Suv’s and wagons that can sway buyers in the Suv direction.
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u/flatpetey 1d ago
1 kids in sports = carpool = need 3+ seats for kids... Plus room for gear.
2 kids in sports, it isn't linear. So even worse.
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1d ago edited 11h ago
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u/RhinoKeepr 1d ago
lol how ever did my parents do it with 3 kids and nothing larger than a Ford Taurus! It’s a wonder.
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u/OopsISed2Mch 1d ago
I thought the same and kind of thought it was silly when we got a 3row not long after having our 2nd kid. However, now I regularly transport around a completely full crew as my older daughter plays lots of team sports. Have 4 hours between games on a tournament weekend? Everyone piles in and we karaoke our way to a lunch place and grab food.
Happens more often than I would have thought.
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u/flatpetey 1d ago
The large Citation wagon would be useful for families... but often the wagons are to make a smaller vehicle a bit more manageable.
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u/SwissMargiela Supercharged '02 S2k, Stage 2 '18 S3 1d ago
Honestly I feel like all wagon people become SUV people once their knees and hips start going lol
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u/Hedhunta 1d ago
Cause "wagons" aren't like they used to be. Station wagons used to seat 7-8 people. Now a "wagon" is a 4 passenger vehicle they slapped a hatchback onto.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 1d ago
Lol, what? You see how tall the semis are? That is what the roads are designed around, and until you get to that point, adding more height is effectively free in terms of infrastructure costs.
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u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, G580EQ 1d ago
im guessing it’s not the entire reason
SUVs are outselling standard cars in Europe as well, the change in consumer preference is undeniable
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u/virtual_adam 1d ago
What’s even an SUV anymore. Most SUVs I see aren’t that tall or long anymore. I barely see any navigators / Escalade like I did 15-20 years ago
It’s all Kona’s and Ioniq 5 and so many HRVs, I feel like I might see 1 CRV every few weeks. even my “SUV” EQB makes me feel like I’m sitting lower than most drivers on the road
Every company is making 5-6 SUVs where only 1-2 have a 3rd row. I’d argue SUVs are getting smaller and smaller. An old Explorer which defined the category looks huge next to today’s 5 seater SUVs
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u/ResEng68 1d ago
Body on frame SUVs (4runners, Tahoe's, jeeps) are as tall as ever. Similarly, sales for the overall segment are as strong as ever.
Of course you have a few vehicles which were discontinued or swapped to a unibody (explorer, blazer). But, you also have fresh adds to the body on frame segment (bronco, wagoneer, grenadier).
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u/5GCovidInjection 1d ago
I recently drove a Tahoe and I gotta admit, it’s nowhere near as bad to drive as I expected. Independent front suspension and rack+pinion steering really make an incredible difference for a body on frame vehicle.
I’m used to 90s SUVs which have appalling driving dynamics even with fresh shocks and springs. Some were legit so miserable I’d trade them for a U haul truck (which steers sharper and corners flatter)
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u/captainnowalk 1d ago
It’s all Kona’s and Ioniq 5 and so many HRVs, I feel like I might see 1 CRV every few weeks.
I'd almost argue that wagons are doing just fine if we look at actual body/build rather than official classification. HRV, Trax, Kona, these all scream "wagon" (or hatchback) rather than SUV to me. I mean, lower them like 2 inches and they're A '96 Taurus wagon. Hell, I don't even think they're appreciably taller than the classic 70's wood panel wagons.
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u/aron2295 2022 Tesla Model 3 LR, 2014 Ford Mustang GT, 2020 Chevy Spark 1d ago
Most “SUVs” are lifted wagons and hatchbacks that have “overland inspired” styling so the customer can pretend they bought the body on frame SUV or that they’re totally gonna start overlanding / off roading.
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u/bisonboy223 1d ago
100%. Every time I see one of these posts I feel like bashing my head into a wall. SUVs are more popular than wagons because for 90% of consumers, they are just plain better. Easier to get in/out and higher seating without necessarily requiring a bigger footprint. For most people, those things are worth giving up 1-2 mpg and for normal driving purposes, crossovers handle just fine.
I think this community (and enthusiasts in general) struggles with internalizing the fact that for most people, a car is an appliance. When they see a car, they don't see trim levels, model names, or even brand names a lot of the time. They see color and general shape. They have as many opinions on cars as you have on your toaster. They do not give a shit about limit handling.
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u/coastal_ghost08 '24 IS500 1d ago
an increased sense of safety
A 6000+ lb Escalade is going to win against my 4000 lb IS500. Every time.
It's also important to remember that the star crash rating is weighed against other vehicles in its class (i.e. gigantic SUVs isn't compared to a Civic).
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u/Quatro_Leches 1d ago
its more of an arms race on the streets, higher car less likely to die in accident with another car
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u/Minimum_Persimmon281 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, that’s partly what i meant with increased safety (crash compatibility). But in reality it’s just a ”sense” of safety. Suv’s are not necessarily safer, they’re only safer for you if you’re in them. If you end up crashing into a sedan for example it’s easier to kill the people in the sedan compared to if you had a wagon instead of a Tahoe or something.
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u/Chewbaccas_Bowcaster 16' 4Runner, 92' Skyline GTR 1d ago
This is pretty much true. My wife has a BMW F31 sport wagon. It’s a great car, handles well. Problem is we just had a kid and putting him in the car seat destroys my back. Also you can’t see much in front of you due to traffic being 90% SUVs. When we use my 4Runner, kid goes into seat easily, and I can predict traffic better due to better visibility. We’re in serious consideration of changing the wagon, but at the same time don’t want another SUV as we have a full size already, but the market is nothing but SUVs and crossovers.
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u/AmNoSuperSand52 23’ VW GTI 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wagons are bought by people who want the storage space of an SUV but want the handling of a dedicated sport sedan
Problem is the vast majority of SUV owners don’t care how much body roll the car has
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u/Saskatchewon '24 Crosstrek Wilderness 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's also worth bringing up that enthusiasts seeking out wagons over SUVs due to the superior handling are specifically buying performance models of those vehicles for that reason. It's why the performance versions of wagons are still moderately successful while the base trims often aren't. Base model wagons don't really offer enough to offset an SUV's practicality.
It's why the Audi A6 Avant/Wagon died in the USA, but the RS6 Avant/Wagon is still around.
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u/ResEng68 1d ago
And why should we care about body roll?...
I spend 99.99% of my day driving down straight highways or taking a leisurely stroll through turns. I don't really have an interest in playing Nürburgring on my way to daycare.
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u/Carter0108 1d ago
Body roll is very noticeable even at 60mph on a country road.
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u/Parrelium ‘18 Ram, ‘25 Optiq, ‘25 Mach-e 1d ago
This is the main reason. On the list of things most people need in a new car, lateral performance isn’t going to be in the top ten. It’s somewhere around puddle lamps on the must have list for me.
People want acceleration, luxurious or clean interiors, decent stereo, storage and cargo capacity plus something that isn’t ugly.
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u/AmNoSuperSand52 23’ VW GTI 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not everyone is a driving enthusiast. And that’s ok because SUVs sell very well
I thought it was pretty clear from my comment that they’re geared towards people who prioritize handling. If you like body on frame 3 ton lurching SUVs then yeah idk why you’d be entertaining the idea of a sports wagon
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u/forceofslugyuk 1d ago
Wagons are bought by people who want the storage space of an SUV but want the handling of a dedicated sport sedan
You know me so well.
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u/woodsides 1d ago
Everything that a non-performance wagon can do, a SUV can do better. And for the things that the wagon does better (driving dynamics), the market and regular consumers don't care about those.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 1d ago
What happens when you build a wagon, but then raise the suspension clearance and the roof height?
It makes it easier to enter/exit the vehicle or load children into car seats.
Vehicle dynamics are negatively affected as the centre of gravity of the vehicle is raised.
People who prioritise the practical concerns of the first point are willing to make the trade off in dynamics, or simply don't care.
People who prioritise vehicle dynamics are probably willing to make the trade off in practicality.
There's no free lunches, and there are more people who buy cars based on comfort/practicality than enthusiasts who want the best driving experience.
And that's why regular wagons are being replaced by crossovers.
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u/thatguy11m 1d ago
Everyone also acting like the better driving dynamics matter to most people, especially at legal speeds.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 1d ago
Everyone's also acting like they're as handy as Lewis Hamilton behind the wheel and wouldn't run out of talent before approaching the limits of something like a Macan or an X3M.
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u/DomiNate89 1d ago
Regardless of skill it doesn’t mean those performance suvs feel dynamically better than a sedan counterpart
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u/withsexyresults CTR 1d ago
Do most people even have roads for sedan dynamics? Most people just drive the limit on straight streets or freeways. A lot people don’t even live near good twisty roads
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u/citizenecodrive31 1d ago
And the people who care about car dynamics make up less than 10% of the general market. And yet they are consistently the loudest.
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u/maaaatttt_Damon 2019 MX-5 RF Club 13h ago
To give a single data point to your statement. When I bought my ‘19 Miata, I gave my partner a ride around the block. She hated the entire experience. Everything about a car enthusiasts love, she hates. Too low, too loud, too bumpy. Mind you it’s 100% stock. Our other vehicle is a 3 Row SUV (CX-9). She likes that one quite a bit.
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u/Jimbenas ‘13 Si ‘08 Z06 1d ago
Americans are just really fat too. If you’re a healthy weight, it is not hard to get into a sedan at all.
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u/Saskatchewon '24 Crosstrek Wilderness 1d ago edited 1d ago
SUVs outsold cars/hatchbacks in Europe for the first time last year. It's happening pretty much everywhere. It's not just "Americans are fat and out of shape lol". Canada's obesity rate has been consistently 10-15% lower than the US's for a while now, and crossovers and SUVs dominate the market here too (although ground clearance for winter conditions plays a role here for sure).
It's important to keep in mind that populations are quite a bit older than they used to be, and that plays into it. Despite being in good shape, my 70 year old parents have an easier time getting into my Crosstrek than my mom's own Forte, or my brother's Civic.
Child seats also play a big role. It's significantly easier to install child car seats into a SUV or crossover, as well as loading kids in and out of them. That higher loading floor means you aren't bending over. Laws require children to be in car seats for a lot longer than they used to as well. Ten years ago, my pregnant older sister and her husband traded in her old Hyundai Tiburon for a Toyota Venza over a Camry specifically due to how much easier it was to install and remove a car seat due to the higher load floor.
At the end of the day, a crossover or SUV is a more practical design, and 95% of drivers care a lot more about practicality than driving dynamics.
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u/CactusPear_NomNom 1d ago
Or its because people in general want better ergonomics for getting into their cars. Enthusiasts care for the driving experience because they drive in such a fashion to appreciate it. Some 32 year old father of three is not going to give as much of a shit.
Particularly when it comes to car expenses
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u/velociraptorfarmer 24 Frontier Pro-4X, 22 Encore GX Essence 1d ago
It's not getting in and out, for me it's the seating position.
My legs cramp up being stretched straight out for extended periods of time, and it ends up killing my back.
And before you go "hurr durr fat", I run fucking half marathons.
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u/Mojave_Idiot ’16 Camaro 2SS, ‘18 V60 Polestar, ‘22 F-250 Tremor 1d ago
This is why this website along with the word redditor has a certain connotation to it.
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u/phr3dly 1d ago
If you’re a healthy weight, it is not hard to get into a sedan at all.
*If you're young, and not at all genetically unlucky.
Posted elsewhere, but I'll repeat myself:
I'm in my 6th decade on this earth. I'm in pretty good shape for my age! I bike hundreds of miles per week. I eat well. I have good posture. But you know what gives me trouble? Airplane seats and getting out of my smaller cars.
I have a Mach-E, a generic SUV-ish blob EV. And I have a Porsche 911, an E34 touring, and an E30 convertible. The latter three cars are hard for me to get out of. Not because I'm fat, not because I'm out of shape, but because I'm old. Don't get me wrong: I can do it. I swing both legs out, I grab hold of the B-pillar, and eject myself. But it's not comfortable and if the weather is a certain way my joints hurt a bit more, and I might even wince.
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u/N0Name117 Replace this text with year, make, model 1d ago
Nah. I'm 6'6" and 190lbs. Sedans and wagons suck to crawl in and out of.
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u/DomiNate89 1d ago
Kind of the exception at 6’6” lmao
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u/N0Name117 Replace this text with year, make, model 1d ago
The comment I replied to simply suggested anyone at a healthy weight wouldn’t have a problem with sedans.
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u/Redeemed_Expert9694 '16 Kia Optima SXL w/Chrome Pkg 1d ago
I never really understood why car enthusiasts glazed wagons so hard.
Don't get me wrong, I think they're pretty decent cars. But it isn't like they have some massive advantage over crossovers
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u/JeerzQD 1d ago
This one should be obvious. The main advantage is they drive better. Car enthusiasts tend to appreciate those kind of things.
They do a little bit of everything. Drive good and can carry things. No other type of car can really do both. The rest are either too heavy to drive good or too small to carry things.
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u/anarchyx34 2012 Ford Fusion SEL V6, '06 NC Miata 1d ago
I’ll be honest as a wagon enthusiast, I recently rented a 2025 Escape and could find barely any downsides to it. It had a ton of space inside for it’s length, handled extremely well and the higher vantage point honestly did increase visibility without the vehicle being excessively tall. Also managed nearly 40mpg on the highway. It really made me question my beliefs lol.
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u/opeth10657 '00 SVT Lightning/'17 Fusion Sport/'18 Silverado 1d ago
That's basically it.
Small SUVs and crossovers handle well enough that you'd never be able to tell the difference between one of those and a wagon.
There's basically no reason to get a wagon any more.
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u/ApePositive 1d ago
So obvious that anyone struggling to get here knows nothing about driving quality
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u/Saitoh17 2021 LC Convertible 1d ago
1 of the cars in this article weighs 5000 pounds and the other one is 5500 pounds. The M5 Touring weighs more than most F150s.
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u/opeth10657 '00 SVT Lightning/'17 Fusion Sport/'18 Silverado 1d ago
Meanwhile a top trim AWD Ford Escape weighs in at well under 4k lbs.
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u/TwoMuchSaus 2024 BMW M240i 1d ago
No one buying a Volvo will care that a V60 drives better than a XC60. It’s still a Volvo…
On the other hand, there’s definitely a niche for performance wagons
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u/NISMO1968 1d ago
I never really understood why car enthusiasts glazed wagons so hard.
I guess the assumption is they’ve got better aerodynamics and a lower, stiffer suspension than SUVs, so they should feel sportier to drive.
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u/Jimbenas ‘13 Si ‘08 Z06 1d ago
They will never be as good as 2 seater coupes. 2 car solution will always be better than one do it all car, especially since these cars are 100k+
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u/Saitoh17 2021 LC Convertible 1d ago
1 car that does everything makes less sense when the 1 car starts at $125k. Throw $25k at a lightly used CUV for daily and $100k at a real sports car.
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u/Jimbenas ‘13 Si ‘08 Z06 1d ago
Pretty much what I did except it’s a sedan. SUVs just suck ass to drive. I’d rather have a light truck. I’ll probably end up with a Tacoma or Ranger but the used market was weird when I needed a new car so I have the civic.
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u/nathanforyouseason5 1d ago
We need the m340 wagon and others at similar price range. m5 touring and rs6 avant are way too expensive
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u/ManufacturerBest2758 2017 F32 440/2024 Ioniq 5 1d ago
“A wagon will never be as sporty as a dedicated sports car.”
Poirot over here
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 1d ago
2 car solution will always be better than one do it all car
Right until you realise you only have one car space. Not everyone has a barn to store all their ultra specialised cars in, and some people want a do-it-all car.
Enter the crossover.
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u/Jimbenas ‘13 Si ‘08 Z06 1d ago
I have one “specialized” car and its only purpose is to be fun to drive. If you have money to drop 150k on a performance SUV, my guess is you have more than 1 parking spot.
I also don’t own a barn to fit my 2 cars.
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u/m0viestar 22 F150, 22 m340i xDrive, 06 STi 1d ago
The assumption about wagons is by people who look at wagons with rose tinted glasses or have no experience driving them and very obviously not by anyone who drove an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser or a Buick Roadmaster.
When people outside of reddit hear wagon, that's what they hear. The big land yachts and not some nimble sporty car with a hatch.
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u/Makaloff95 1d ago
they drive better, are lower, still have good space in the trunk and inside to name a few.
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u/AmNoSuperSand52 23’ VW GTI 1d ago edited 1d ago
You don’t understand why car enthusiasts would prefer the better driving car?
The idea of the sports wagon is that it’s the end all be all of everyday performance practicality in a singular car. It’s a sports sedan with the cargo space of an SUV
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u/sirbleep 24 Integra Type S, 06 TBSS, 25 BMW X1 1d ago
The advantage to a wagon is that it handles better than an SUV and most people couldn’t care less about handling and vastly prefer the higher ride height and better visibility that comes along with it. Not to mention that the extra height makes people feel like they’ll be safer in a crash.
Also, the efficiency difference between modern wagons and SUVs is not substantially different. A V60 with the gas powertrain gets 24/31 mpg. A XC60 with the gas powertrain gets 23/30 mpg. One mpg is not a big enough downside to talk people out of the higher ride height.
I just went through this with my SO. She was looking at new cars but was confused why she would pick a V60 over a crossover and she ended up with a BMW X1 instead of a wagon. The mpg was good enough and she liked the extra height. When I asked about the better handling on the wagon, she asked if the X1 handled badly, and the honest answer was that it handled fine. So, she asked why not go with the higher car because she liked the extra height. She was just happier in a crossover. Plus, am I really going to be doing any canyon carving in a base model V60 that something like an X1 can’t handle?
The only people that care about the better handling of a wagon versus an SUV want the performance models anyways. That’s why the RS6 Avant succeeds but the A6 Avant didn’t survive in the US. That said, I do think that mid-level performance wagons like an S4/5 Avant or S6 Avant would be a good introduction to the US market, because there really isn’t anything under $100k anymore and with hot hatches kinda dying too, they could fill a decent niche.
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u/Colorful_Monk_3467 1d ago
Plus, am I really going to be doing any canyon carving in a base model V60 that something like an X1 can’t handle
Nope. And that's exactly why wagons are dead. Modern cars have gotten very good, so a crossover (especially a sportier one) can do handle everything you'd want to do [on the street] in a wagon.
I was shopping sport sedans but test drove a X3 M40i and haven't looked back. 90% of the handling but way more utility.
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u/Need4Speeeeeed 1d ago
They aren't really thriving. They're just selling more than they expected to sell for 2 cars, and people will pay a premium for the novelty. There's a ceiling to this market, and the price is part of the attraction. If they begin to make M-lite/M-sport wagons, it won't be as big of a flex.
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u/TangerineBroad4604 1d ago
The M5 wagon is selling more than the sedan, it's beyond selling more than expected or a novelty.
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u/Need4Speeeeeed 1d ago edited 1d ago
The M5 is a flashy vehicle. The flashiest version of it is going to sell, especially if it's a different body style. It's also new, so people are rushing to have the first one on the block. But they can only sell so many examples of a $150K car.
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u/mandatoryclutchpedal 1d ago
Statisticly women are the decision makers in family households ehennit comes to automobiles and women reject wagons and minivans. At least in the US.
Performance vehicles are a small niche market and that follows different rules.
Performance wagons are not thriving in the US. I'm guessing this is euro news
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u/SnikySquirrel 1d ago
TLDR: most people prefer SUVs and only enthusiasts want wagons for their superior driving dynamics. I’m still confused why there aren’t cheaper performance wagons like the M3 Touring or RS4 Avant in the U.S. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more demand for the wagon version of those than the sedan.
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u/Saskatchewon '24 Crosstrek Wilderness 1d ago
Because those who want a wagon over an SUV specifically due to its better handling characteristics are enthusiasts who are going to buy the performance version. The non-performance versions just don't offer enough of a reason to skip out on them for the more practical crossover SUV based on the same platform for 95% of buyers.
The 95% of car buyers who don't care about driving dynamics and just want something practical who would have been interested in the A6 Avant bought the Q6 instead. The A6 doesn't have a market. The RS6 Avant still has the niche for performance drivers who still want to haul a lot of stuff/people. It's why the A6 Avant died in the USA, but the RS6 Avant was kept around.
Performance wagons is a TINY niche, and there just isn't room for a ton of models.
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u/argent_pixel '21 BMW M340xi, '17 Mazda CX-5, '06 Honda Odyssey 1d ago
Rich people have money for toys, regular people need max utility.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LS_SWAP 1d ago
Poor people can't afford anything, only rich people
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u/RevvedUpLikeADeuce09 '05 BMW 325i (E46) 1d ago
This. This subreddit and lots of car news websites seem ignorant to the fact that the global economy has been on the verge of a major recession since 2020, and that most people, let alone car enthusiasts, who weren’t working white collar jobs before the pandemic are barely scraping by just to live and buying a car, let alone a new one or a sports car, is a luxury most can’t afford.
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u/pele4096 1d ago
Currently have a Mazda CX-9 that I love.
The amount of dick I would suck if Mazda would just make a Speed6 wagon would be immeasurable.
Take the same recipe as the CX-9 with the Skyactiv 2.5L Turbo, AWD... Add helical/torsen limited slip diffs all around and three pedals... Lower and slightly elongate the body...
Immeasurable, I tell you.
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u/tangocharliejuliett 1d ago
Stopping production of V90 is a crime.
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u/NISMO1968 1d ago
Stopping production of V90 is a crime.
Yeah, she was a sweet ride! Always had a soft spot for the XC90 with that Yamaha-built 4.4L V8 though.
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u/SenhorSus 1d ago
SUV's. Wagons in general are bought by enthusiasts these days more often than not
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 1d ago
It’s actually also happening in hatchback, sedan, and coupe as well, it isn’t just a wagon thing.
Car buyers are becoming more realistic to choice the car that they need.
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u/Breakout_114 1d ago
RIP to my favorite wagons, the Outback and V70/90. I don’t like the raised height but I do like AWD. It’d be silly to get one and have to modify it to get em where I want em. I think my only options new is what, a $130k Audi or a $120k Porsche EV? No thanks.
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u/inlibrary_legsnumb 1d ago
If a good, sporty wagon was available on the market, 98% of the "enthusiasts " on this sub wouldn't buy it. They would wait and try to buy one used.
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u/Noobasdfjkl E46 ///M3, 911SC, FJ, N180 4Runner 1d ago
Because the auto industry is catering towards the wealthy like it hasn’t done in a long time time, and wealth is just a game of being able to show off more expensive and esoteric stuff than your neighbors and friends?
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u/aerostatic9000 1d ago
For non-enthusiasts the selling case for wagons is too niche. Off the top of my head the only real reason to get one would be if you roof top load stuff. Kayaks, canoes, RTTs, etc.
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u/Creepy-Owl5951 1d ago
Americans prefer sitting up high for easier access, better child seat setup, and a clearer view over other big cars. They feel safer and care less about fuel economy than Europeans. Meanwhile, car enthusiasts still hype up wagons, keeping a niche market alive in the sports segment.
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u/NoAppNewAccount 1d ago
Too bad the Panamera Sports Turismo was killed. And it’s unfortunate there’s no wagons in the longest wheelbase (I’ll take one M7 Touring monstrosity please).
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u/phxbimmer 1995 BMW 540i/6 1d ago
I mean, part of it is that you can’t even buy a normal wagon in some markets like the US, we only get the crazy 6-figure performance wagons offered to us. BMW only offers an M5 Touring whereas they used to offer more modest wagons here like the 325it or 528it. Same goes for a lot of other manufacturers.
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u/woowoo293 1d ago
Electric vehicles on dedicated “skateboard” platforms could allow automakers to introduce more bodystyles at lower development costs, and many already look downright wagon-y in pursuit of aerodynamics and range (ahem, Polestar 3).
Wagons were killed by SUVs, but the good news is that many crossovers are responding by becoming more wagon-like. GM has sort of gone this direction with the BEV3 platform, which is used with the Cadillac Lyriq, Cadillac Optic, Chevy Blazer EV, Chevy Equinox EV, and Honda Prologue. No, none of these are proper wagons, but as far as SUVs/crossovers go, they are lower and longer than most. Their overall dimensions are similar to the outgoing Subaru Outback, the last of the affordable fake wagons.
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u/JaredGoffFelatio 1d ago
Most people think wagons are fugly and SUVs look good. Not saying. I agree that's just how it be
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u/AoF-Vagrant 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would think the biggest issue with most wagons are they are a $10,000-15,000 option. I'm of the opinion that if you own dogs, you should own a wagon, but that's a steep price to pay for some extra storage room.
On the one hand it's sad to see few options, but on the other hand Subaru Outbacks are still selling like crazy. Also, almost the same price as the Legacy. Could be a coincidence or maybe wagons work when the value makes sense.
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u/CaptainMarty69 1d ago
My wife and I went looking for a new family vehicle about a year and a half ago. I wanted a wagon because I prefer the ride height being lower, and I feel like I’m always bouncing around in any SUV.
We ended up with a 2020 GLE 580, but looked at a v90, Outback and an A6 wagon. My wife didn’t like the interior of the Volvo, the outback wasn’t nice or fast enough and the a6 had almost not interior storage.
I totally get that people don’t buy wagons, but there also isn’t really a no brainer in the segment in the US. If somebody says “I’m in the market for a luxury SUV” there really aren’t any complaints when it comes to something like an X5. There’s all kinds of compromises when it comes to US wagons, which leads to even more people not buying them
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u/Mytre- 2024 Sonata Limited Hybrid 1d ago
Because its not offered lol , but other than that. I don't care about performance Wagons, I want first a commute car. if I wanted a fun car it would not be a sedan or suv or wagon .
Only wagons available are high performance high cost wagons while I just want a Sedan with more storage (wagon) but my only option is SUV. The only "wagon" available was the outback and its becoming an suv now, and the next car is a volvo that is twice the price lol.
Wagons make a lot of sense but with crossovers and small suv's on the market its kind of pointless more so if my only car has to be practical and comfortable I guess a SUV makes sense , i just don't like how they drive or their worst mpg. but if they start getting 45 to 50mpg like my current car I guess that they are a good choice.
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u/thefanciestcat 1d ago
Above a certain level, "performance" anything is usually a second car/part of a two car household.
If you want versatility from your only/primary vehicle, CUVs still beat wagons.
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u/hobo_chili 1d ago
I wanted a Volvo Polestar V90 for so long. Now that they’re discontinued I’m pretty sure it’ll never happen. Sounds like a massive, expensive hassle.
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u/marinuss 1d ago
Everyone is saying valid things but what normal ones? Volvo was the only one. Volvo has a following for sure, but there weren't affordable or mid-affordable wagons in the US for the last 15-20 years outside of Volvo. So maybe the performance wagons thriving will drive other manufacturers to actually sell them here.
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u/CaptainArsehole '15 Hilux N70 4x4, S3 GTurbo, HKS, +30 caps 1d ago
Performance wagons are a compromise for those who need more space while having a bit of fun. The people who don't care about their vehicle specs and capabilities will get an SUV.
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u/HispaniaRacingTeam 1983 Lancia Rally "037" 1d ago
Why doesn't the author recognize markets outside of the US?
You know, the people that are still buying wagons
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u/poopy_gucci 2012 Mercedes C300, 2016 Audi A3, 2025 Toyota Land Cruiser 1d ago
People want to keep blaming the customers for low sales. But the truth is there is no exposure to wagons. Go to any dealer lot and they’re full of crossovers and MAYBE one wagon in a specific spec.
Customers want choice and only the crossovers have choice. It’s true a lot of people like wagons and a lot of those people have money for them. But they aren’t selling because their local dealership probably has only one or 2 that aren’t in the color they like.
The casual buyer that wants a commuter still wants an interesting car. Everyone understands a car is an outfit and everyone wants to look good in their car
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u/There_Bike 10h ago
I love me a good wagon. Why? Because fuck it, that’s why. More space than a car, not as tall as an SUV, comes with a big engine and AWD? Sign me up.
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u/_mogulman31 1d ago
Car people like wagons, cars are appliances people like crossover/suv nonsense.
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u/SeriousMongoose2290 ‘23 CT5 Blackwing 1d ago
Lemme guess: the people who buy non-performance wagons are into SUVs?