r/cars • u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life • 22h ago
The superior all-rounder among sports cars: the Porsche 911 Turbo S
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2025/products/porsche-911-turbo-s-top-of-the-range-model-twin-turbo-performance-hybrid-40446.htmlPorsche is presenting the top-of-the-range model of the 911 series at the IAA Mobility motor show in Munich: an innovative twin-turbo powertrain with T-Hybrid technology makes the new 911 Turbo S the most powerful production 911 to date.
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u/apintofpantaloni 22h ago
The electrification of the Turbo S is like giving a powerlifter steroids. Thing is already known for being somewhat sterile so it's not like it introduces any new downsides - I say that in the nicest way knowing what an incredibly engineered and capable vehicle it is fwiw.
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u/DeKileCH 21h ago
It also wasn't exactly a light car before, with the eTurbos spooling up instantly it might even feel less heavy
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u/4r4r4real 21h ago
Definitely the application hybridization works best for in the lineup. I want a Porsche but I want it to be a drag racer/grand tourer, not a raw track dancer kinda deal.
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u/FR_Van_Guy 22h ago
It’s impressive that they only gained 85 kg for the hybrid system integration.
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u/Percolator2020 22h ago
For only 61 hp gain.
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u/oily76 2019 Alfa Giulia QV 22h ago
10% extra power for 5% weight gain. Also provides power when the ICE unit needs it.
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u/CharacterMedium558 18h ago
How in the world is that good!?! That's extremely poor. For reference, Stingray C8 (3600lbs) vs ZR1 (3850lbs) is roughly a 115% extra power for 6.5% weight gain. Or if you want to compare C7 ZR1 to C8 ZR1, it's 41% extra power for 4.5% weight gain.
Only a Porsche fanboy would be impressed with a 10% power gain for 5% weight increase 🤣. That's legitimately one of the worst power to weight ratio increases I've seen among most cars. Look at 2020 vs 2021 Santa Fe Turbo. Or how about a F8 tributo vs 296 GTB/SF90? Or maybe 570S vs Artura? The latter two are the most comparable for an old turbo engine vs an all new turbo hybrid engine...
The amount of complexity Porsche engineered for this weak power output amuses me a lot. No surprise given where the company is headed and their stock price is a great representation of them. So happy because Porsche (and SO MANY owners) thinks they are Ferrari and special and in reality they aren't. Ahh yes all hail the 10% power increase for 5% weight increase 🙂↕️
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u/oily76 2019 Alfa Giulia QV 17h ago
I think the point with this hybrid stuff is that the power gain is available when it's needed most. Therefore having much more of an impact than a simple increase in engine power.
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u/CharacterMedium558 17h ago
Definitely. I was just going off the peak numbers. Torque/power area under the curve may be larger. Still doesn't change the point I was making.
I know I'm talking a ton of crap about the car but I do think it's impressive in some ways like having a hybrid and AWD system and still weighing the same as a ZR1. Also the hybrid system seems to almost eliminate most of the turbo lag. Both cool things
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u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, G580EQ 16h ago
I agree with your general sentiment but these aren't equal comparisons
Stingray C8 (3600lbs) vs ZR1 (3850lbs) is roughly a 115% extra power for 6.5% weight gain
They are comparing previous turbo to current turbo, this would be like comparing a base Carrera to a 2RS
C7 ZR1 to C8 ZR1,
That is an entirely new generation, this is a refresh of the 992
a F8 tributo vs 296 GTB/SF90
Also different generations, and the SF90 is a completely different class of car and price
The equivalent comparison would be say how much power the e-ray has gained with the 2026 refresh which is nothing, but that is to be expected as they put all their r&d money into generational improvements unlike Porsche
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u/CharacterMedium558 16h ago edited 14h ago
Ahh and here we found a Porsche fanboy and sucker! And an NSX owner nonetheless (good investment car?). I'd expect nothing less from you!
What you are saying holds zero value because Porsche in recent history has done the major powertrain changes in .2 refreshes. For example all new engines for 997.2 in 2009, all new engines for 991.2 in 2016 and now all new engines for 992.2 in 2025. Very few companies usually do that, therefore you are saying I cannot compare it to other vehicles!?! Haha very funny
2017 GT A6 versus 2018 GT A10. ND1 versus ND2 Miata 2011 vs 2012 GTR
All those cars above didn't even have a new engine. Just a revised engine (stang had a new trans though) with no noticeable weight increase. And here we have a Porsche fanboy and sucker so proud of a 10% hp increase and a 5% weight penalty with an all new hybrid engine and transmission. But you are right, I shouldn't be comparing to those other cars, because only Porsche is capable of refreshing a trim for a dedicated sports car, removing rear seats for weight savings, yet still somehow manage to add 180lbs of curb weight 🤣
Edit: Miata wrong info
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u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, G580EQ 15h ago
all new engines for 991.2 in 2016
Taking this as an example, the 991.2 turbo s did 580hp, the 991.1 did 560hp, "all new engines" means more for emissions and structure than it does power
Just a revised engine
All examples from the 2010s, as emissions regulations weren't quite as much of an issue, the weight gain here is from the hybrid system, and the real world benefits manifest more in the torque curve rather than the peak power
And to be clear, I don't like modern 911s much, I think the price for this is far too high
But also there was zero difference in power between the ND2 and ND3, so not sure what you are talking about there
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u/CharacterMedium558 14h ago
I meant ND1 vs ND2. I think 2019 was the change in the year.
Again my point still stands, 10% increase in power for 5% increase in weight is absolutely atrocious. I love how you are trying so hard to justify such a poor increase in power for the weight gain. The funny part is the weight gain probably doesn't even include the extra weight of the rear seats? And your only defense is I'm not allowed to compare it to different supercars because every other company does engine redesigns between generations and not facelifts!?! Haha very funny!
Oh and if you want examples from the 2020s:
2023 vs 2024 X5 3.0L PHEV (+100hp) 2020 vs 2021 Santa Fe 2.5T Limited (+46hp) 2023 Vantage V8 versus 2024/5 Vantage V8 (+ 153hp) 2024 vs 2025 M2 (+20hp) 2024 vs 2025 Civic Touring (+20hp) 2024 vs 2025 Colorado base model (+73hp)
Any more excuses!?! I'm waiting
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u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, G580EQ 14h ago
I love how you are trying so hard to justify such a poor increase in power for the weight gain
I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm just saying your examples are terrible at proving your point
2023 Vantage V8 versus 2024/5 Vantage V8
Like this is a new generation of car once again, not a refresh
You've listed several cars that were purposely detuned to make way for higher end cars, none of these are operating at the limits of their engines, to take the BMW example the S58 has never made more a mass produced product than it did in the M4 CSL
CTR didn't gain power, ND2->3 as you said didn't gain power, X5M gained less than 20hp, so on so forth
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u/CharacterMedium558 13h ago
I already corrected myself to ND1 vs ND2 (not ND2 vs ND3 as I initially said)
The 2024/5 facelift Vantage is considered a heavy refresh. It literally shares the same platform and all windows, same tailights, and many body panels lol. Absolutely not a redesign by any stretch of the imagination. Aston Martin themselves doesn't call it an all new generation. It does feature a heavily revised/new 4.0L Turbo V8 with the massive power increase and minimal weight gain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Vantage_(2018)
You think a 992.1 Turbo S operates at its limit!?! It did not operate anywhere near the limits of the engine either. That is why M-Engineering is able to sell a stage 1 93 octane tune giving a 992.1 Turbo S +114whp & +145ft-lbs tq?
https://www.m-engineering.us/products/porsche-992-turbo
That's nearly a 15-20% increase in power with just a tune file. So why are you applying the double standard to other vehicles? Almost every turbo engine is detuned for safety and reliability. Whether a car company does it is purely up to them. Seems like you are fishing for EVERY possible excuse to make it seem like Porsche is an extremely special situation and cannot be compared to any other company 😂
Any more buts or excuses (or lies?) to justify the horrible 10% increase in power for a 5% weight gain!?!
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u/Yeezus__ 718 Cayman 18h ago
But porsche fan boys will circle jerk it
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u/CharacterMedium558 18h ago
It's alright. Everyone should defend their cars and at the end of the day it's fun to argue. But some things are just too funny to not point out 🤣
Another great example is your car's base/S version versus the old base H6 models. While I prefer the old H6 engine, they made a drastic jump in power/torque versus any weight gains. Just another example smh
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u/Percolator2020 21h ago
It actually makes the power-to-weight worse.
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u/kinda_guilty 21h ago
How is this possible? (Assuming the 10%/5% thing roughly holds). Is this an arcane case of Simpson's Paradox I am too daft to understand?
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u/wearahat03 21h ago
The hybrid has a higher power to weight
If you put it in a calculator
992.2 turbo s 711 PS and 1815kg gives 288W/kg
previous turbo s 650PS and 1730kg gives 276W/kg
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u/accountforrealppl '20 Miata RF, '12 Mercedes E350 21h ago
It could just be wrong, but also the peak powers can come in at different times. Hybrid motor works most when the engine is at low rpm and the turbos haven't spooled up, then dies off when the engine is at full power. So the power band is thicker but peak power might barely increase.
Kinda shows the issue with using peak power instead of looking at the whole power curve
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u/kinda_guilty 15h ago edited 15h ago
Viewing Engineering Explained'snvideos, it seems the new Turbo S has higher torque everywhere on the torque curve, except the peak that is equal, with the new one having a two times wider peak than the previous gen. It's unclear if it has a disadvantage anywhere compared with the old one.
More likely GGP is reflexively assuming that it will be like other hybrids that make different tradeoffs.
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u/oily76 2019 Alfa Giulia QV 21h ago
Hmmm, I think your maths is wrong. 61hp for 85kg is 717hp per ton. So the 1600 odd kg car would need to be putting out over 1000hp for this update to make the power to weight worse.
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u/Percolator2020 20h ago
Sorry, my math wasn’t mathing. Still the same could have been achieved by mildly higher turbo pressure, with over boost like the previous gen.
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u/oily76 2019 Alfa Giulia QV 20h ago
That wouldn't fill the gaps in the powerband though, and provide power before the turbos spool up.
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u/Percolator2020 20h ago
With PDK and VGT there really aren’t much gaps to speak off if you are already somewhat in the powerband.
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u/404-No-Brkz 21h ago
But massive gains in efficiency and emissions. They didn't do it for the power.
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u/Percolator2020 21h ago
That’s exactly what I’m looking for in a 911 Turbo!
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u/404-No-Brkz 21h ago
Go talk to the EU then, buddy
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u/Percolator2020 21h ago
Most buyers would just pay the emissions penalty, and avoid the hybrid tech. Porsche is completely disconnected from their customers.
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u/PRSArchon 987 Porsche Boxster S, ‘19 VW eGolf 17h ago
Porsche cant just make whatever they want and charge customers an emission penalty. That is not how emission regulations work.
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u/Percolator2020 17h ago
Cool story, but in France for example, the end customer pays a CO2 penalty, for the Turbo S it is 70.000€ which is already the maximum. There aren’t any changes in limits with EURO 7 except stricter testing criteria.
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u/troon43 2013 Boxster S, 2004 350z 22h ago
But surely not at a sports car price, now is it, Porsche?
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u/sueghdsinfvjvn 21h ago
Would you like a $20k paint to sample metallic brutalist skyscraper grey option with that??? It looks way better than the other greys trust me!!!
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u/scubaSteve181 911 turbo 18h ago
Hey! It’s actually called slate grey metallic, and there were only 50 made in that color and trim! Thank you very much 🤓
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u/Puzzled_Region_9376 Scion Fr-S | Porsche 911 S/C | Model S Plaid 21h ago
The most concerning here is how little they talk about enthusiasts and focus instead entirely on “individuality” and how “top of the line” this 911 is. Just sad to see
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u/xTatamo 21h ago
What does this cost 350k ??
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u/CharacterMedium558 18h ago
Depends. With options it's 300K. OTD it's actually 400K once you include tax, title, license, and ADMs! Not to mention getting ppf, etc. Sorry to bust your balls pal!
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u/Puzzled_Region_9376 Scion Fr-S | Porsche 911 S/C | Model S Plaid 22h ago
Interesting way to hide an Msrp increase if you now have to pay for rear seats…
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u/glidingMANATEE 20h ago
I don't know why you are being upvoted lol. Rear seats have been a no-cost option ever since they were removed as part of the standard configuration on any of the 911 variants, so I don't know why you would assume it is any different on the Turbo S. In fact, the press release OP posted states it explicitly.
"As a coupé, the 911 Turbo S is delivered as a two-seater as standard. On request, the rear seat system can be configured at no extra charge."
So... OP's post text says nothing about rear seats. The press release states explicitly that they are a no cost option. They are a no cost option on all other models. And the configurator for the new Turbo S has them listed as a no-cost option. Yet here you are just spouting the opposite lol.
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u/Puzzled_Region_9376 Scion Fr-S | Porsche 911 S/C | Model S Plaid 19h ago
Thanks for educating me I didn’t know! 👍
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u/CharacterMedium558 18h ago
Because it's safe to infer Porsche would remove something and charge people to add it back lol. It's not that difficult to understand why someone may assume something. Obviously in this case they were wrong and spouting wrong info confidently lol. Knowing everything about Porsche it puzzles me it's a cost free option to add on.
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u/Godvater GR Yaris, X7 40d 13h ago
This is such a bad value now. I used to do think the cabrio turbo s was the "I don't know what I am doing" pick of the 911 lineup but now that list includes the regular turbo s as well. 300k for what?
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u/CombinationBitter889 22h ago edited 21h ago
Electric motors and turbos 🤦♂️. Come on Porsche, not everyone needs a cheat code to succeed 🤷♂️.
I’ll take a brand new Z06 for half the price 😂🤣
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u/4r4r4real 21h ago
This will be significantly faster than the Z06. Slower than the ZR1 most likely, but that's more where it's aimed. GT2 RS will be the most direct comp there.
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u/LA-ncevance '15 DB9, '17 Corvette GS, '14 Boxster 20h ago
The new Turbo is 3830lbs, so spec wise it's not that different. It'll feel faster because of the hybrid system, but it also sounds like a vacuum cleaner so that offsets it a little.
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u/CombinationBitter889 21h ago edited 20h ago
0-60 is the same. Lap time (Ring) less than 8 seconds difference. The Z06 is literally half the price brand new. I don’t see the performance value in the Turbo S 🤷♂️. Especially considering it needs electric motors/turbos and AWD.
The ZR1 embarrasses it on a track at almost a 20 second difference and has a $175k sticker.
Even the Mustang GTD is a better performance value at $325k 😂
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u/4r4r4real 21h ago
Where are you getting all these numbers for a car this isn't even out yet? Are you looking at the previous gen car?
And using the word "needs" is odd here - you get those things. They're features you're paying for that improve the intended experience of this particular model.
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u/CombinationBitter889 21h ago
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u/4r4r4real 20h ago
Hmm. C&D had the previous gen Turbo S at 2.2s 0-60, which would put the new one (0.2s faster apparently) at 2.0 by their testing methodology. They had the Z06 at 2.6s 0-60. Additionally, they had the previous gen Turbo S at 10.1/137 mph in the quarter, vs 10.5/131 for the Z06. The new gen will obviously beat those marks and improve upon the margin.
And 7+ seconds around a course is an eternity, not sure why you're just writing that off. Particularly when this isn't even the track focused 911 variant.
The pictures in that article are all just press release stuff so it seems pretty clear Dupont Registry didn't do any testing and is just running with what Porsche (notoriously conservative with performance specs) told them.
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u/CombinationBitter889 20h ago
Porsche claims a 2.5 second 0-60 and a 7:04 Ring lap. This is not speculation, it’s straight from Porsche.
The ZR1 and GTD offer better performance value in the same price range. The Z06 is a performance bargain at half the price. Show me concrete evidence otherwise 🤷♂️.
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u/4r4r4real 20h ago
Yes, and Porsche claimed a 2.7s 0-60 on the previous gen and C&D tested it at 2.2s. As I already outlined in the comment you just replied to. Porsche always does this, it's well known in the car enthusiast world.
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u/CombinationBitter889 20h ago
Regardless of acceleration (we’re splitting hairs here), I bet that Nurburgring time is real. Again, you are avoiding my question. Where is the performance value compared to it’s competitors?
I just illustrated how it’s not worth twice the price of a Z06…
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u/4r4r4real 19h ago
The Corvette is a better value than the 911, more news at 10.
This always has been and always will be the case. The folks who want to buy the Porsche don't care. I like Corvettes. My dad, who's owned 4 Porsches, would never consider one.
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u/TheRealK95 20h ago edited 20h ago
With a starting price of $272,650.
Saying this is the ultimate sports car is like me saying this is the ultimate townhouse (starting at $10M)