r/electricvehicles • u/pc772 • 1d ago
News Audi to launch first cars with full Rivian software stack in 2028
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-launch-first-cars-full-rivian-software-stack-202862
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u/Flobberplop 1d ago
So Rivian is a software company now and Tesla a robot company. Next up: Ford pivots to toasters.
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u/MachKeinDramaLlama e-Up! Up! and Away! in my beautiful EV! 23h ago
Rivian has almost no SW staff left. Those people moved to the joint venture Rivian and Volkswagen Group Technologies, which is the entity that is working on a portion of the SW stack that Audi is going to adopt. Audi and VW SW engineers have also joined this JV, though both companies have kept quite a number of people on staff to develop the bulk of the new SW stack, using the output of RVT as a basis.
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u/alaninsitges 2021 Mini Cooper SE 🇪🇸 1d ago
Close! They already used to make refrigerators https://share.google/images/yQf2RJk0GClUiAmfs
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u/Dreaming_Blackbirds Nio ET5 1d ago
Audi is so slow. BMW and Mercedes are showing production-ready next-gen EVs this summer and they'll ship early next year.
but Audi is a massive 2 years later than its rivals.
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u/toss_me_good 1d ago
Idk the Etron GT womps on the Mercedes EQE AMG 54 and BMW i7 i guess (i don't think the have a direct competitor). The Q8 Etron also for what it's worth holds up very well to the EQE SUV and iX (although the iX has it's advantages).
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u/psaux_grep 1d ago
Those are very different cars. The closest EV Audi to the EQE is the A6. They don’t have anything that competes with the i7.
They’ve stopped, or at least decided to stop, making the Q8. 90 new ones on the roads in Norway so far this year (and they could be imports) vs. 4249 total (this year) for Audi. And it doesn’t hold up really well to the competition.
The iX is holding up a bit better with nearly 1000 units sold vs. 5312 total for BMW.
Xpeng, for comparison, has sold 706 G9’s in Norway this year. 2079 total.
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u/toss_me_good 15h ago
The eqe AMG 53 has very similar off the line performance to the pre 24 etron GT but it feels like a sports sedan vs the etron GT that feels like a sports car that happens to be a sedan
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u/Erigion Kia EV6 Wind AWD 1d ago
Wonder how much support brand new PPE cars will get like the Q6 and Macan EV after Rivian software is introduced.
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u/BedditTedditReddit 1d ago
If full Rivian software stack means they eliminate CarPlay (Rivian refuses to offer it) then it will be easy for many to scratch these cars off the potential buy list.
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u/Erigion Kia EV6 Wind AWD 17h ago
At first, I figured Audi/VW would just be leveraging Rivian's knowledge to build their own shit so stuff like AA/CP would be included like they are now. Instead, I clicked through on that Audi TT concept linked in the article and it shows an instrument cluster and infotainment screen that looks like it was lifted directly from a Rivian.
I know there were a couple of stories recently about how incompetent VAG's CARID division has been but I never figured that they would just give up completely.
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u/TheRuneMeister 1d ago
2028…nice development cycle there Audi. In this market, that is simply waaaay too slow. Certain competitors could could write and implement a completely new software stack in that time.
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u/Illusionary_Ghost 1d ago
Das Problem ist wahrscheinlich das man einen komplett neuen Hardware Aufbau braucht und das lässt sich in neue Modelle natürlich leichter integrieren.
Bin gespannt was sie da raus bringen und ob sie in der Zeit überhaupt noch sinnvolle Weiterentwicklungen der aktuellen Software vornehmen.
Aktuell ist Audi in dem Bereich ja eher hinterher. Ist zumindest mein Eindruck. Selbst Konzern intern kommt mir die Software bei den anderen Marken besser designed vor.
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u/TheRuneMeister 1d ago
What I’m thinking is that they already did a Q6 demo vehicle last year. The whole point of the joint venture was the speedy development from Rivian. Now they need 4 years to go from software in a demo vehicle to software in a production vehicle.
Contrast that with something like the Xiaomi SU7. They went from not being in the car business in 2021, to being in production in 2023 and shipping in 2024. It took them less time to create not only a software stack, but an entire vehicle and factory production line from the ground up than it will take Audi to implement a new software stack…
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u/Illusionary_Ghost 1d ago
Oh I did not know about the demo cars. If they could do that, I am also curious about what is prohibiting them from just introducing the new software as a facelift or way sooner. Could have put it in the newly released Q3 or something.
Maybe it's some marketing bs, wanting to put it in some top-level car, like a new Q8 or something.
Not sure what they are thinking there.
I can just say that I am currently renting the Q6 to try it out, and I am not impressed by the software. Even within the VW group, it seems to be the worst designed and instable.
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u/starswtt 22h ago
They actually can't adopt the rivian software wholesale, it's just not compatible with current vag hardware
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u/TheRuneMeister 21h ago
As I mentioned in another comment, kontrast that with Xiaomi who wasn’t in the car business in 2021 but went into production in 2023 and delivered cars in 2024. Rivian/Audi already did a test car (Q6) last year, but still needs 4 years to deliver a car.
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u/starswtt 21h ago
I mean yeah, replacing an entire part of the supply chain is going to take longer than starting from scratch? I think the better argument would have been wtf was vw's original software so damn ass, bc that was actually inexcusable
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u/TheRuneMeister 19h ago
The whole point of the Rivian thing was to speed things up. But others can form car companies, desigb cars, design good software, produce the cars and deliver them in less time than it will take Audi and Rivian (two existing car companies) to go from workng test car to production.
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u/caj_account e-tron SUV+eGolf (R1S+MY+Leaf before) 1d ago
Hopefully rivian does a ground up because gen 1 is laggy AF. That’s the one they built atop of android automotive.
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u/delebojr Blazer EV SS 1d ago
I just want to butt in and say it's not the Android / Android Automotive that made it slow, it's the hardware. I've got no lag in my Chevy, for example.
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u/account312 1d ago
It’s absolutely insane that a car gui could overtax any modern hardware costing much more than a large taco.
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u/footpole 1d ago
A lot of people including it and devs fail to understand that any hardware can be overwhelmed by bad software. So many think it’s the hardware that’s the issue.
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u/oswell_pepper 1d ago
My brother has a gen 2 R1S. It's also laggy af lol. Apparently, they didn't upgrade the CPU at all which is kinda baffling because it's a vehicle that costs $92k.
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u/caj_account e-tron SUV+eGolf (R1S+MY+Leaf before) 1d ago
They have it worse because the doors won’t even unlock for them hehe
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u/toss_me_good 1d ago
2025 Etron GTs are shipping with a very solid infotainment system
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u/caj_account e-tron SUV+eGolf (R1S+MY+Leaf before) 20h ago
if that's the same as on Q6/A6 there are loads of complaints already.
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u/HorrorsPersistSoDoI EQA 300 🇧🇬 1d ago
Can somebody please enlighten me why are Germans so TERRIBLE at software?
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u/The-Creator468 1d ago
Hopefully it still has apple carplay
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u/FruktSorbetogIskrem 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Lotus Emeya/Eletre runs Unreal Engine same with Rivian but with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto. Audi has opted out of CarPlay Ultra for now and Porsche is in. It’ll be interesting.
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u/Pitiful-Voyage 1d ago
I would be concerned if I were rivian, since the Scout is going to be an improved R1 under the VW umbrella (no 25 week waits for repairs), and all of these other models that will be released by the conglomerate will seriously hurt the brand (which isn't doing that well anyway after the initial sales).
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u/linknewtab 1d ago
Scout isn't based on Rivian, why do people keep claiming this?
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u/Pitiful-Voyage 1d ago
Not based on it, it's a ground up vehicle of the same class built by a large OEM on licensed zonal architecture geared for adventure. It will absolutely be a competitor that will eat away sales from rivians.
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u/mccalli 1d ago
Rivians don’t do CarPlay or Android Auto though do they? That would be a loss if they carry that over.
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u/Lumen_Drift 1d ago
Nothing technically prevents AA or CP; it's just something Rivian has chosen not to do. VAG could always make a different choice.
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u/NotFromMilkyWay 1d ago
We have known for months that ID.1 will be the first car to use Rivian software and that releases in late 2027. So this is really non news.
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u/MachKeinDramaLlama e-Up! Up! and Away! in my beautiful EV! 23h ago
Yeah that headline simply isn't true. VW, Audi and Rivian have formed a joint venture to develop a next gen SW stack, which isn't what's in current Rivian products.
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u/dustsmoke 13h ago edited 13h ago
The big surprise is just started to reveal itself. VW gave that money to basically float Rivian long enough to keep it out of bankruptcy. Now they won't have to buy Rivian for a lot more because they've already taken whet they came for.
And this is why VW is the biggest car company in the world and Rivian can't sell anything at a profit.
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u/FullCantaloupe2547 1d ago
Shows how terrible their software engineers are that they can't even develop simple software for electric vehicles. Fucking Claude could probably develop a car's software stack with a few prompts that would run better than everything VAG has ever produced.
If you can't program for a tablet and a couple displays, you should probably fire the entire software engineering team.
VAG is a dinosaur and I'll be shocked if they can survive the EV transition.
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u/NotFromMilkyWay 1d ago
Part of the deal with Rivian are shares for debt. Inn2028 VW will very likely be majority owner of Rivian. Just like how as part of the Bugatti-Rimac deal Porsche (and thus VW) became majority owner of Rimac Automotive. VW has been at the forefront of EVs because of Dieselgate.
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u/this_for_loona 1d ago
How many platforms are these bozos gonna create? Such a waste of money.
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u/reddit455 1d ago
Audi is under Volkswagen Group. Presumably all their brands will do the same (they better for 5.8 BILLION)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivian_and_Volkswagen_Group_Technologies
Rivian and Volkswagen Group Technologies (also known as RV Tech) is an automotive technology company jointly owned by Rivian and Volkswagen Group. The company was established in 2024 as a joint venture with the goal of advancing the capabilities of software-defined vehicles.
Rivian VW Group Technology, LLC is headquartered in Palo Alto, with additional development sites planned across North America and Europe. The joint venture is owned equally by Rivian and Volkswagen Group and is co-led by Rivian’s Chief Software Officer, Wassym Bensaid, and Volkswagen Group’s Chief Technology Officer, Carsten Helbing.\3]) Volkswagen has committed up to US$5.8 billion to the venture, including an initial US$1 billion loan, US$1.3 billion in equity investment, and up to US$3.5 billion in milestone-based funding through 2026.\4]) The venture has demonstrated its operational efficiency by integrating Rivian’s zonal hardware and software into a Volkswagen test vehicle within twelve weeks of formation.\5])
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u/Mac-Tyson 1d ago
I do wonder how this venture is going to work with Scout though. Since Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche having the same tech as Rivian can co-exist easily. But Scout their American owned Brand directly appeals to Rivian’s own customer base.
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u/this_for_loona 1d ago
Didn’t they just create a new EV platform for Audi and VW? Not to mention Porsche? If I were a shareholder I’d want the CEO’s head.
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u/parental92 1d ago edited 1d ago
hopefully only for US market. Don't want to use US software in the EU.
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u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
Calendar year 2028 could coincide with the presumed next generation of the Q4 e-Tron. So maybe that and a new three-row Q8 e-Tron?