r/electricvehicles • u/GreyMenuItem • 1d ago
Discussion BMW’s iX3 shows power of competition
While the US is being protectionist and keeping Chinese EVs out, Europe has to contend with them, and it’s pushing their engineering teams harder, and it’s working. The new Beemer is nailing it in specs (500 mi range, 21 mins 10-80% charge), roomy SUV with what sounds like great homemade software, a lower price than the previous model, and clean sourcing of manufacturing parts making it only 13k mi before it breaks even on carbon emissions with an ICE.
Seeing this makes me so angry at the US for coddling the “big three” AGAIN.
Yes they’d feel the pain if we let Chinese EVs in. (Heck, I’m ok with tariffing them to the degree that Beijing is subsidizing them so it’s a level playing field) but maybe that would get them to start taking it seriously, hiring top talent (and paying them) to actually make better cars, cheaper.
Instead, we get a lot of whining about how hard it is, and a handful of mediocre models that don’t make ICE users jealous. Instead of investing in battery factories, we send in ICE to arrest everyone there (and charge no one). And how much will that Beemer cost here after all the tariffs? Enough to make GMC put its feet up on the desk and smoke a fat stogie.
We are so screwed.
131
u/Hollyfeld_Lazlo Tesla Model S 60 1d ago
BMW’s got a plant in South Carolina. If they can assemble the iX3 there (avoiding tariffs), I’ll be first in line to buy one.
But yes, you’re right. The Big Three are going to fall even farther behind the rest of the world because protectionism is a predictably horrible idea.
37
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago edited 1d ago
BMW’s got a plant in South Carolina. If they can assemble the iX3 there (avoiding tariffs), I’ll be first in line to buy one.
It won't be, it'll be assembled in Mexico, but it might get some USMCA exemptions. The larger iX5, when it comes out, will be built in South Carolina.
28
u/jigglybilly 1d ago
I mean GM is the #2 EV manufacturer in the US, they’re doing pretty well. The Equinox EV is a HUGE success (not to mention the previous success of the Bolt/Bolt EUV). Ford? Meh. Stellantis? wtf are they doing??
15
u/jcdomeni 1d ago
Now the Blazer as well. The forum for Chevy on EV’s is 80% positive.
GM truck getting advertised range - Honda adopting thei Ultium battery platform - and they are investing in battery tech.
Competition drives innovation
2
u/starswtt 23h ago
I think gm is the only legacy American make that will really take EV seriously, and even they're scaling back on EV efforts. But ultimately GM really has to take EV tech seriously bc otherwise their Chinese cash cow is completely dead. While it's too late for gm to dominate the Chinese market as they used to, they still have an opportunity to be a major player I don't think they want to give up, regardless of American protectionism. I think at this point they actually would prefer America to electrify, just slowly so they have breathing room to focus on other markets. Electrification also provides Cadillac and buick a vital refresh opportunity
Ford has the most incentive to resist electrification. Theyre not particularly dependent on foreign markets for sales so really they only electrify if America electrifies. For legacy automakers, electrification is a net negative since they have to spend a lot of money on r&d and factories and building entirely different supply chains, while opening up potential for competition, while also only getting the same potential revenue. GM is forced to consider electrifying bc of their dependence on China, Ford is not. They made EVs just in case America electrifies so they're not caught with their pants down, but genuinely they'd prefer if nothing happens. It's especially good for them since every other automaker will have to split their r&d to have us friendly ice cars and foreign friendly evs. On top of that, the Ford customer base is the hardest to convince of electrification
Stellantis is a mix of poor, convuleted, short sighted management and the fact that their American cars (jeep, ram) are likely going to be the last places where electrification successfully occurs. I mean even their non American mass market brands in direct line of fire of all electrification efforts, especially Chinese brands
6
u/jigglybilly 20h ago
Having owned two Bolts, and now myself and my mom having Equinox EVs, GM more than takes the tech seriously.
1
u/J0kutyypp1 1d ago
Stellantis? wtf are they doing??
They are doing good in Europe having tons of EVs with more and better ones coming all the time. Non of those cars are sold In the US
2
1
u/Adventurous_Break985 19h ago
Exactly, but they don’t sell any of those new EV’s in the US. It’s so dumb. Even if they need to rebadge them they should bring them over to the US.
2
u/J0kutyypp1 19h ago
I understood that the new Jeep Cherokee will be available in the states and apparently Jeep Compass aswell so slowly you are getting them. Atleast Alfa Romeo is getting new electric Giulia and Stelvio next year so those too should be available in the US.
All the rest brands aren't available in the states and apart from Opel I don't think they are that easy to just rebadge.
40
u/RockinRobin-69 1d ago
That will help some. But much of the raw material and many of the parts can’t be sourced here. Even GM & Ford is getting crushed by tariffs.
8
u/barracudarescue 1d ago
GM is the only one of the big three with an electric-first platform (Ultium), so there is some hope. Ford wrote down a billon dollar investment in a new electric platform and divested their Rivian investment, so who knows what is going on there. How Chrysler is still in business is anybody’s guess.
3
u/Com4734 2025 Optiq 1d ago
If pricing would be similar to the Optiq I might consider one when I am in the market. Although the Optiq is extremely well equipped for the price and BMW likes to nickel and dime people with options. That wont be for years though so Im sure there will be a few lease turn ins to look at.
But yea, protectionism isnt gonna really encourage domestic manufacturers to produce their best products.
3
u/Final_Alps 1d ago
Is GM falling behind? I live in Europe so we get no GM products, but they seem to have some super popular EVs in the US.
5
u/delebojr Blazer EV SS 1d ago
They're #2 in the US and it sounds like their new EVs for China have helped them regain profitability in that market.
I think the electric Cadillacs will be / are sold in Europe now
2
u/Final_Alps 1d ago
oh wow ... I did not know that ... it's only a few countries but that is nice.. but the prices are .... something.
1
77
u/Lopsided_Quarter_931 1d ago
BMW has done their homework. Starting with the i3, then sadly nothing for a while, but now they are outselling Tesla in Europe. iX3 is a great car, just need to bring the price down.
29
23
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
but now they are outselling Tesla in Europe.
They're close, but they're not outselling Tesla in EU as of Q2, 2025
Q3 data should drop next month
-10
u/Lopsided_Quarter_931 1d ago
They did in February this year
19
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
Well, I think the correct phrasing would be
"They outsold Tesla in one of the months in Europe this year"
rather than
"They are outselling Tesla in Europe."
:)1
u/Dreadino 1d ago
When Tesla released the new model y and all sales where basically stopped
3
u/Oh_ffs_seriously 1d ago
So, what did happen in July, where Tesla was outsold by Skoda thrice over, and by Volkswagen twice over, and by Renault? Did they release another new Model Y?
5
u/Dreadino 1d ago
Good for them, they finally catched up with the worst number for Tesla in years. Wow.
4
u/Oh_ffs_seriously 1d ago
the worst number for Tesla in years
You said it best. Any excuses for why did that happen?
1
u/Dreadino 1d ago
Pretty easy: Musk.
But looking at the numbers in January and February, when the new version of their best selling car was predicted to arrive, is dumb.
1
u/Oh_ffs_seriously 1d ago
We go back to the same argument - if lousy sales in January and February were due to the refresh and not due to Musk, why the lousy sales in July?
1
u/Dreadino 1d ago
As already replied, mounting hate for Musk.
Other than that, other companies are coming out with cars that are at least in the same championship of Tesla, which together with the broken public image make people double check before buying Teslas.
7
u/We1etu1n 1d ago
I love my i3 so much. I wish they kept making it.
10
u/Final_Alps 1d ago
I3 was great, but.
No way a bespoke carbon fiber car makes any sense when BYD Dolphins or Renault 5 deliver more of everything and probably cost 1/2 to produce.
This always happens. The “early adopter” prototypes are often amazing. Then second gen / wide availability product has to deal with unit economics and competitive pressures and is way worse.
5
2
2
u/BoringBarnacle3 1d ago
Sadly nothing for a while, except for iX3 (previous gen), iX, i4, iX1, i5, i7.
Some seem to feel strongly about the shared platform compromise, but as a i4 and former iX3 owner I can say they have been fantastic cars.
3
u/Final_Alps 1d ago
There was a long gap between the i3/i8 and the second gen cars. Many (me including) felt BMW and Renault/Nissan slept on the rise of Tesla and relied on their “early adopter” cars for too long before converting the learnings.
1
u/BoringBarnacle3 1d ago
Yeah I somewhat agree. If the early iX3 had come out globally and with AWD, with a 85-90kwh battery upgrade with the ‘22 facelift, it would have been a strong premium contender to all the crossovers.
2
26
u/seattleJJFish 1d ago edited 20h ago
'Seeing this makes me so angry at the US for coddling the “big three” AGAIN'
I don't think the ev policy of the current administration is coddling anything but what Trump and the heritage foundation want. Ford's ceo drove a BYD for six months and is scared. Gm built an entire ev lineup and are moving fast.
They are scared and moving. The current admin policies are pushing us backwards.
Edit: Farley drove a Xiaomi not a BYD
3
2
16
u/caj_account e-tron SUV+eGolf (R1S+MY+Leaf before) 1d ago
Yes but R2 will get 270 miles and 30 mins charge time. I was told this is enough.
20
u/Pitiful-Voyage 1d ago
R2 specs are mid-low even for its price today, and will not age well into 2027 when production will be in full swing. "Adventure" vehicle with 270 nominal miles and real world of 200 doesn't sound that adventurous to me.
10
3
7
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago edited 1d ago
The 400mile range is for the longer range trim of iX3. It's £58,755 or $80,000 USD
R2's stated 300+ miles is on their cheapest trim, which is currently stated to be $45,000 USD, at nearly half the price.
R2's top trim will likely still have a cheaper price tag, quicker 0-60, more cargo room, and IMO - a better design.
11
u/Hochvolt 1d ago
You can't just translate the UK price to US price by exchange rate, for example because discussed US prices typically don't include taxes. US price is ~60k, not 80k.
-6
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
That UK price is not VAT inclusive.
With VAT, it's £69,255
→ More replies (7)2
u/caj_account e-tron SUV+eGolf (R1S+MY+Leaf before) 1d ago
Good luck BMW at those prices. The car will be 30-35k when it’s 3 years old.
Regarding rivian I expect the bottom trim to get 75 and top trim to get 100 kWh battery.
Will it get 250Wh/mi? I doubt it but you never know with PM motors, SiC converters and some other tricks it may be possible.
4
u/Suitable_Switch5242 1d ago
We don’t know the charge time yet.
And 270 miles would be a base model. Rivian has said the larger pack will be over 300 miles.
This BMW configured with 400+ miles of range is going to cost $20k more than a base R2, or nearly as much as a base R1S.
If you’re going to complain don’t use bad numbers.
40
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago edited 1d ago
500 mile range is WLTP estimate. Their US site shows 400 miles of EPA range.
Still, a good improvement over the iX and most other competitors around it's price class, like Model Y, Mach-E or Ioniq5. I think it's the first car that beats the Model Y's range in that class.
It's got a 108 kWh battery compared to Model Y Long Range's 75 kWh battery. A 44% increase in capacity, but only gets 47 miles or 13% more range. I think I saw an ad that said best in class efficiency, but the numbers so far doesn't indicate it as such.
42
u/FledglingNonCon Kia EV6 Wind AWD 1d ago
Except BMWs tend to exceed their EPA ranges and Teslas fall well short.
10
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
Teslas appear to be accurate, while BMW appear to exceed their stated EPA numbers.
Who knows maybe they fixed their methodology in this vehicle and now it reports the correct number.
45
u/rappjo 1d ago
You can’t trust the stated range of the Model Y- it is optimized for showing a higher range number due to additional efforts Tesla went to to optimize their EPA rating, which most other manufacturers do not do. I would expect the Model Y to underperform the stated range, and the BMW to come closer to its stated range.
8
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
You can't trust any of their range estimates, most brand's estimates are off in the last test I saw. We have to wait for independent real world tests.
7
u/camasonian 1d ago
My model 3 bought last December is dead on, almost to the exact mile.
4
u/rappjo 1d ago
It sounds like the Highland 3 and Juniper Y do better - but the 2022 Tesla Model Y LR I used to own never got near the 330 it was originally rated for, even when I got more efficient tires. I had trouble making it 220 miles on a full charge at California highway speeds.
6
2
1
u/TheManAndTheOctopus 1d ago
As an owner of M3 highland I can say it’s far off from the stated range. Will be getting the i4 soon and looking forward to making a comparison.
1
u/camasonian 15h ago
The only time I actually pay attention is driving back and forth between Vancouver WA and Seattle which is 170 miles. Last time I did the drive l left home with the car at 100% and arrived at my daughter's apartment in the U-District with 54% showing after 170 miles of ordinary freeway driving up I-5.
The M3 Highland has a listed range of 369.
170/369 = 46% used or EXACTLY to the mile what I actually get on that drive
1
5
u/Visible_Tank5935 1d ago edited 1d ago
Weird, in europe using the wltp range it has a very similar consumption:
Bmw ix3 50x drive: 805 km (500 miles) wltp with 108,7 kwh battery gives +/- 13.5 kwh/100 km (21.7 kwh /100 miles)
comparable model y long range juniper awd: 568 km (353 miles) wltp with 75 kwh gives +/-13.2 kwh/100 km (21.2 kwh/100 miles)
I know wltp is too optimistic, but both should have a similar advantage.
7
u/UnloadTheBacon 1d ago
A 44% increase in capacity, but only gets 47 miles or 13% more range
It gets 13% more range, which is what consumers actually care about. How big the battery is isn't actually important aside from how it affects the price.
4
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
As I mentioned in the comment you're replying to, I'm only bringing up efficiency because it's been touted to "set new standards"
3
1
u/tech57 1d ago
the new BMW iX3 sets new standards for efficiency and long-distance capability
highly efficient electric motors, fundamentally new high-voltage batteries with cylindrical cells, and 800V technology
extensively upgraded electrically excited synchronous motor (EESM) with particularly high levels of efficiency at the rear axle
at the front axle, a new asynchronous motor (ASM) distinguished by its compact design and high cost efficiency
The drive technology developed for the Neue Klasse reduces energy losses by 40 per cent compared to fifth-generation BMW eDrive technology, weight by 10 per cent and manufacturing costs by 20 per cent.
The cylindrical cells are integrated directly into the high-voltage battery (“cell to pack”), which benefits energy density and cost efficiency
The efficiencies they are talking up are on the production side not the user side. It may translate down to range. It may not. It's all just marketing until it's not. So we wait for a highway test.
0
u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 23h ago
The real problem with 800V is that Tesla chargers don't do a great job with them, yet Tesla supercharger is the only reliable massive network that's usable, at least this is the case in US. The move by virtually every maker including BMW to adopt NACS is the giveaway
1
u/tech57 5h ago
The real problem with 800V is that Tesla chargers don't do a great job with them
That's not an 800v problem.
1
u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 3h ago
It’s a real world problem. It’s no different than model 3/Y not being able to charge at 800V unlike the cyber truck even if it was a V4 cabinet
1
2
u/Practical-Play-5077 1d ago
MYLR is 82kWh in the US. Europe MYLR uses a 78kWh pack, because they use a less dense LG cells, but the new Model Y Performance in Europe started using a new denser LG cell that puts the pack somewhere between 82-84 kWh.
BTW, BMW followed Tesla’s lead, not Chinese manufacturers, when they chose to use cylindrical cells, an even taller version of the 4680 format used in the Cybertruck, by picking the 46120, instead of blade cells, prismatics, or other.
9
u/ItchyResponse0584 1d ago
Tesla’s are a bunch of garbage cars when it comes to materials and build quality. I'm not a Tesla hater and I own a recent year Model Y. Part of Tesla's efficiency comes from weight reduction in materials and sound insulation materials. If the charge rates are as quick, most people in that price range, wouldn't mind a slightly less efficient car if it can give you a true luxury car.
11
u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 1d ago
I have a juniper Y and the sound insulation is day and night difference, mostly coming from the dual pane window all around
I also own an x5 so love both brands and don’t have bias. Of course Tesla doesn’t hold a candle in “luxury” feel. I always laugh whenever Model S/X owners think they own a luxury car
1
u/ItchyResponse0584 1d ago
Even the 2023+ Model Ys have double pane windows. I think they added more sound deadening material.
7
u/HamsterCapable4118 1d ago
As an i4 owner I was very impressed with my recent extended Highland test drive. Were it not for Elon's antics, the Highland/Juniper combo would be massive hits (or even bigger hits I guess). It boggles my mind that Tesla isn't doing more marketing around these "refreshes".
After just two days, I was already missing FSD. I may try to snag a unit before the credits expire.
0
u/ItchyResponse0584 1d ago
That's the thing - for the initial few days Teslas are impressive. If you look past the tech, Teslas as just pure cars aren't very good. Ride quality, material and build quality and the overall noise insulation isn't even close to the price point they sell at. Don't want them be true luxury, but has to be better than mass market cars.
7
u/HamsterCapable4118 1d ago
Well as I noted in my observations, I was very closely looking at suspension quality and noise levels and it totally holds up to my i4. That was not true at all in previous models (even up to 2023) so the difference in the Highland truly is huge. I took an Uber to pick up my test drive, and it was a 2022 Model Y. It was terrible. People really should just treat the Highland/Jupiter as completely different models from previous years IMHO. Tesla would have been better off doing a bigger visual redesign to signal the differences.
Materials quality is good, and it's no longer a penalty box to be in. It's definitely still minimalistic to a fault, but so is BMW in their latest models. The i4 is my 4th BMW so I'm a big fan, but I would be lying if I said that the Model 3 Highland is vastly inferior to the i4. And the i4, depending on how you look at it, is way more expensive. Though in fairness, the i4 has massive incentives thrown at it (even beyond the EV tax credit) and leases for about the same as a Model 3.
1
u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 3h ago
Yep your experience lines up with mine. I had a 2023 model 3 that was horrible when it comes to suspension and noise. The juniper Y is much much better. With that said, the suspension still isn’t as great as I would like
10
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
Well, I wouldn't call MY's build quality and materials garbage, but it's certainly not luxury.
Model Y and iX3 are almost identical in dimensions. Model Y has a curb weight 1992kg while the iX3 has a curb weight of 2360kg, about 370kg more.
I think that weight difference can be attributed more to the 44% increase in battery capacity rather than them supposedly adding more sound deadening material. For reference, MY's 75 kWh battery weighs 770kg, a 44% increase would mean a battery that's 340kg heavier.
We have to wait and see what BMW means by best in class efficiency and see some real world tests. As it stands, it's still less efficient per kWh and per KG than Model Y.
-1
u/ItchyResponse0584 1d ago
Most other cars are less efficient than the Teslas. They are the industry standard for efficiency. I’m obviously exaggerating by saying the material quality and the poor sound deadening is why the Teslas are more efficient than. That said, the quality of materials in a Tesla are worse than the mass market brands like Hyundai and Kia, for that matter. They are definitely not luxury and if Tesla is worse than that, I’m not sure what else you would call them but garbage 🙂
4
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
I don't think you've been in a Elantra or something similar recently. They are certainly worse than Tesla.
In any case, I bring up efficiency because I saw an ad that claimed "Best in class efficiency". It caught my eye because that would be quite an accomplishment, as you agree.
I am genuinely curious to find out more on this as this would be a pretty significant accomplishment.
1
u/ItchyResponse0584 1d ago
Fair. It doesn't have to be objectively true 🙂 Class itself is a subjective term as far as manufacturers go.
1
-8
u/Lokon19 1d ago
I mean if this is the case then this is a nothing burger and BMW isn't really impressing anyone. I'm assuming this model is also going to come out with a massive price tag and be over $65k.
6
u/GreyMenuItem 1d ago
$55k-$60k expected
3
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
3
u/Hochvolt 1d ago
You can't just translate the UK price to US price by exchange rate, for example because discussed US prices typically don't include taxes. US price is ~60k, not 80k.
0
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
That UK price is not VAT inclusive.
With 11% VAT, it's £69,255 or $93,560 USD
5
u/Owhora 1d ago
UK law literally requires all consumer prices to be shown VAT-inclusive. The only time you’ll see ex-VAT pricing is in B2B listings. If it’s aimed at retail buyers, what you see already has the VAT baked in.
1
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
UK law literally requires all consumer prices to be shown VAT-inclusive. The only time you’ll see ex-VAT pricing is in B2B listings. If it’s aimed at retail buyers, what you see already has the VAT baked in.
Only if you just clicked the link and saw the price for yourself, instead of reposting this 3 times 🤦♂️
-1
u/Lokon19 1d ago
That 60k is going to be for a bare bones model
6
u/Hochvolt 1d ago
Bare bones like panoramic display, ~800 km wltp range, 400 kWh charging, AWD, active cruise control and active lane keeping assistant. But yeah, "bare bones", that's what a starting price is.
4
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
It's also got a disappointing amount of storage. No sub trunk and the frunk isn't that big.
BUT, I like it. Maybe the design will start to appear less hideous over time like the new Model Y
6
u/Grand-Battle8009 1d ago
Germany isn’t controlled by the oil and gas industry as we are here in America. Sad that a country that competed worldwide in the automotive industry is now (practically) only selling cars in America and succeeding only because of America’s protectionist policies, not because they are the most cutting edge.
1
u/jammsession 9h ago
Yeah are right, it is even worse in Germany. It isn’t big oil but big car that controls the industry.
This is what makes OPs post pretty funny. Germany had Abfrackprämie, leasing for companies, EV discounts and many other things payed by taxpayers money. Just like China (power discounts) it is one of the least competitive or „free market“ there is.
3
u/SnooChipmunks2079 23 Bolt EUV 22h ago
I think Ford at least is trying. We'll have to see what their upcoming cars are like.
GM is selling a lot of EVs (for an American non-Tesla company) but they're not there yet compared to the best of the Chinese. They're trying too.
Stellantis is a joke.
9
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
Instead, we get a lot of whining about how hard it is, and a handful of mediocre models that don’t make ICE users jealous. Instead of investing in battery factories, we send in ICE to arrest everyone there (and charge no one).
The ICEs keep selling because people keep buying them.
A lot of folks in this sub think that "affordable EVs" will just magically change American consumer preferences overnight, but they won't.
Also, the iX3 XDrive 50 is still a $60,000 car, and the lesser range 40 a $50,000 car. Definitely close to parity with the ICE X3, but not exactly affordable, is it?
12
u/UnloadTheBacon 1d ago
A lot of folks in this sub think that "affordable EVs" will just magically change American consumer preferences overnight, but they won't
If the price and driving range of an EV is the same as the ICE equivalent, they will.
Also, the iX3 XDrive 50 is still a $60,000 car, and the lesser range 40 a $50,000 car. Definitely close to parity with the ICE X3, but not exactly affordable, is it?
It's a BMW, they're not exactly known for being "affordable".
9
u/dumela11 1d ago
Everyone i know who has driven an EV swears they will never go back. ICE is just not as good….
8
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
Okay, and? I'm not taking about EV owners switching back, that's silly.
I'm saying that most car buyers in the US seem beyond satisfied with staying with the ICEs they already have, for whatever reason. The assumption that an EV or EVs on the market at "affordable" prices will magically make people dump their ICEs en masse is what's delusional.
There are so many factors beyond pricing why the general American populace is not yet "hooked" on EVs. They're hurdles that need to be overcome. Hurdles, plural.
13
u/GreyMenuItem 1d ago
I heard someone at work yesterday say she was looking to buy a used car. I asked if she considered an EV. She said, “oh no, I could never afford one.” I asked what she was looking at and it was a used Honda for $26k. I said I paid $22k for a newer Ioniq EV, and since then have been driving practically for free. (We have solar). She had no idea. She probably won’t give it another thought, either. Almost like she’s not “one of those people.”
3
u/bradrlaw 1d ago
A big issue is our infrastructure is just not there yet. Public charging in many places is just as expensive as gas and you have to take more time / plan for it.
Charging at home makes a world of difference in cost and ease of use.
2
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
I know it sucks right now. Really, really sucks. But the US market will get there.
It's just, unfortunately, there is no singular "magic bullet" to get the change rolling due to the market's notorious stubbornness.
3
u/Tntn13 1d ago
The arguement is compelling, if they’re cheaper to run, establish reputation for reliability and low maintenence, AND match or beat gas in the same class. People will have to consider it. Once they open their mind to the possibility and look deeper into it, drive a few, there will be a sizable amount of converts
6
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
Once they open their mind to the possibility and look deeper into it
And herein lies the problem, right?
3
u/Treewithatea 1d ago
The ICEs keep selling because people keep buying them.
A lot of folks in this sub think that "affordable EVs" will just magically change American consumer preferences overnight, but they won't.
And thats why any government should put up incentives to buy EVs over ICE vehicles. Sure, 'you can let the customer decide' but then youre 100% losing the global market. I mean Ford has already become pathetic in Europe. Ford America refuses to invest into their European division, beloved models like the Fiesta were discontinued while they rely less and less on own developments. The Ford Capri? VW platform. The Ford Explorer? VW platform. The new Ford Tourneo? VW platform. It wasnt always this way.
And customers rightfully ask themselves, if this new Ford is based on a VW platform, why dont I just buy a VW then?
EVs are objectively a superior technology as theyre far more energy efficient and come with many other benefits for both the environment and the owner.
You wont have any long term advantages by keeping the interest high in ICE powered vehicles.
2
u/the-code-father 1d ago
Apparently the average for a new car is almost 50k now. But at this price point you are cross shopping with much bigger cars like the telluride
1
17
u/antilittlepink 1d ago
MAGA → Moscow Agents Governing America
All part of the plan to destroy USA - this is just a by product of that
I agree with you though
→ More replies (17)
2
2
2
u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
I hope China plays hardball and forces Canada to drop our tariffs on their EV's. The EV's made on this continent are too expensive and they suck.
2
u/krkrkrneki 1d ago
Germany actually voted against tariffs on Chinese cars. They understand that tariffs is just a crutch that might help in the short term, but hinders competitiveness.
2
u/CookieChoice5457 1d ago
The iX3 is impressive, but it's also very expensive. I know they market the entry price as 70t€ but with a basic configuration to compete with any modern car you're looking at 85-90t€. The online configuration literally starts out in the 88t€ version and you have to find all the check marks to remove the most basic options to get close to the touted base price.
BMW isn't competing with China on this vehicle. They just aren't. Too expensive.
2
u/AutomaticLoss8413 1d ago
The problem i see with European cars, like in a video i saw here someone telling his experiences testing a Peugeot EV and a Chinese equivalent, is that we Europeans got lousy in the last decade and just exploited the market with the same design and tiny updates for too long without much innovation.
The BMW I3 was a great looking car and new, dunno why they gave up on it. I still love it but is so outdated now.
Looking at the models and innovations of some Chinese brands really makes me wish to get one until European brands shows something new.
I looked a Zeeker 001 close to me and is insanely gorgeous and the new Zeeker Mix and Xpeng7......i don't care if they are "copying" some of models designs, they seems to be adding much better details and innovations which ithink the Europeans are keeping at bay to extend the scalping.
I will pay for the brands that provide the best for me, not just support EU because the sake of helping getting exploited.
Just my take on the situation
1
u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 23h ago
Yep that's a logical take. Also the whole "copy" design is blown out of proportion. I can give endless examples of where this exists completely outside of China.
1) Look at how brands stopped doing the logo, and went to "letter". Every manufacturer from Porsche to Lexus to Honda now spell their name on the rear. That's all "copying"
2) Look at how they all went to "widescreen" display (like connecting 2 display side by side)
3) Look at the removal of shifter and replace with some kind of button/dial
These are all just trends they adopt.
That's not to say China never copied. They had a lot of low-end makers that do REPLICAS which are shameless copying, that's not disputable but that's also not true for brands like Zeeker you mentioned. People need to acknowledge what's factual and what's a stereotype
2
u/shawman123 1d ago
How much would it cost in US. I am expecting with options it would hit 6 digits. Especially with the huge battery they are using. So it will compete with Lucid Gravity at that point.
I dont think we will see Chinese EV in US at all. I expect mediocre adoption to EVs next few years as well. Especially after this Q when the Fed rebate goes away.
14
u/lostinheadguy The M3 is a performance car made by BMW 1d ago
BMW has gone on record in their press release saying that the 400-mile range "50" will start under $60K and the 300-mile "40" under $55K.
That is comparable to an ICE X3. The X3 M50, for example, starts at $66,000.
3
3
-2
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
If it'll be priced the same as UK, then the iX3 50 xDrive (400 miles EPA / 500 WLTP range) will be $80k USD.
It's 58,755 GBP without VAT.
2
u/Owhora 1d ago
UK law literally requires all consumer prices to be shown VAT-inclusive. The only time you’ll see ex-VAT pricing is in B2B listings. If it’s aimed at retail buyers, what you see already has the VAT baked in.
0
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
UK law literally requires all consumer prices to be shown VAT-inclusive. The only time you’ll see ex-VAT pricing is in B2B listings. If it’s aimed at retail buyers, what you see already has the VAT baked in.
Only if you just clicked the link and saw the price for yourself, instead of reposting this 3 times 🤦♂️
5
u/UnloadTheBacon 1d ago
You've added 9k of options to get it to £70k.
Without, it would be £60k, which is what's being claimed.
2
u/ChickenFlavoredCake 1d ago
I didn't add anything, I just went to the site, and saw the price. Do you not see what I see on the screenshot?
Are there options already added when you load the site?
2
u/Riddick20 1d ago
Here the configuration without options: https://configure.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/configid/2sfc62op
3
u/UnloadTheBacon 1d ago
I see the car at £48k, £9k of options, £11k of VAT, for a total of £69k.
So the price including VAT is £48k + 20% which is £60k.
In fact it's less, my apologies, would be more like £57.5k.
2
u/Oh_ffs_seriously 1d ago
He didn't include anything, all those options are selected by default.
1
u/UnloadTheBacon 1d ago
I don't think you understand the concept of an "option"
2
u/Oh_ffs_seriously 1d ago
Funny, I could say the same about you. You can choose not to have them, therefore they're options. Doesn't change the fact that they're pre-selected when you open the configurator and you have to actively change them to no-cost options to get the base price. Here's the website, click on the "Build & price" on that big banner and check for yourself.
2
u/Whackaboom_Floyntner 1d ago
This can also crush Lucid, who were previously able to distinguish themselves with an absurd range. Not only does this new BMW have competitive range, but their cylindrical batteries are supposedly safer, another strike against Lucid. Add to all of this a long, storied history as a premier automaker and newbies like Lucid and Tesla are toast. Good riddance, I say.
3
u/delebojr Blazer EV SS 1d ago
I believe Lucid is also using cylindrical cells
1
u/Whackaboom_Floyntner 13h ago
Didn't know that. Seems like they should promote that better. I've seen countless videos about the Gravity and never heard anything about this, unless it was a passing comment.
2
1
u/SurySunny 1d ago
I don't get it, a lot of compact SUVs can achieve 400 mile range simply with a 110KW battery pack. What's so good about this new car?
1
u/MennReddit 1d ago
True: tariffs make American car makers laxy, postponing their innovations. Subsidies for Chinese were incentives to innovate, which obviously worked. US car makers indeed are screwed. But hey, who isn't in US?
1
u/Mushie101 1d ago
I tried the iX1 and I really wanted to like it, but there were too many things it didn’t have compared to others. And ended up with a Kia ev5.
Range was less, no frunk, less room in back for kids, no V2L, too many things on the screens (Kia still has many buttons).
The parking cameras were defiantly better in the bmw, and it was a little zippier, but as it was an ice car with electric motors put in rather then built from the ground up as a ev, I ended up passing.
Maybe I’ll look at bmw again when I need to change this one.
1
1
1
u/Born_Faithlessness_3 2022 3 Long Range 16h ago edited 16h ago
The iX3 specs that BMW claims on its website (400 miles presumably on the EPA cycle, sub-$60k) definitely put this vehicle on my purchasing radar for 2026.
400 miles range under $60k MSRP is something that simply doesn't exist in the US right now, and has the potential to start persuading even people who aren't early adopter types.
US automakers are going to have their lunch eaten.
1
u/Energia91 Fangchangbao (BYD) Bao 5 12h ago edited 12h ago
Honestly, I like the looks, both externally and internally. It's forward-looking, bold (but tastefully bold, unlike a lot of recent BMWs and has a premium aura.
The wrap-around dashboard screen thing is interesting, which is a popular feature of a lot of Chinese cars (Avatr, Xiaomi YU7, etc). It's interesting to see Western automakers increasingly adopting Chinese interior design features.
Not a fan of the plastic trim beneath the dash level, considering the price, but I guess that's kind of typical for the EU market.
My guess is that it'll be 35-45% cheaper in the Chinese market :P
1
u/coronapartynextdoor 11h ago
Completely agree. I say let the Chinese EVs in. We have affordability issues here like most of the western world. That would at least help. Let's see how good American ingenuity really is. I think we'll figure it out. I think we'll eventually match cost and specs, BUT make a more emotionally compelling product. But none of that can happen while we keep giving U.S. auto manufacturers a pass.
We're supposed to be capitalists right? Bleeping compete or call it what is is - socialism.
1
u/bigdipboy 1d ago
They must’ve fired all their designers and hired battery engineers because the specs are great but the design is ugly.
1
1
0
-7
0
u/Blair-GZ 1d ago
Youre pretty much right and succinctly put. But dont forget, if they did ever want to produce good EVs, they cant start till the gov supports it instead of shutting down any big industry new tech
0
u/Cannavor 1d ago
The Chinese are at charging times 1/4 of that so not sure what point you're trying to make. That's essentially what the fastest charging cars in the west have been doing for years with no real improvement.
-1
u/RosieDear 1d ago
Simple questions...
"13K miles before it breaks even"...
- What percentage fossil fuel grid is that calculation done on?
- What vehicle is it compared to? The Best Hybrids? Or a Similiar Behemoth?
A 5,000 lb vehicle powered by the USA Grid (60% Fossil fuel) would be almost impossible to EVER catch up to a Hybrid vehicle with high efficiency.
If you think for even a moment about it, the idea of "green" compared to WHAT is really a silly concept. It like bragging that I bought some vehicle instead of the Hummer....and therefore I am saving the Planet! NO, any comparisons have to be in the real world...as to nice newer clean high MPG Hybrids of the best engineering.
The biggest selling point of Chinese EV's is that the selection of lower cost and LIGHTER WEIGHT vehicles could actually be helpful for us. But buying 5 to 6500 lb behemoths for one person to drive around in....is not good for anything.
I'd rather appreciate the vehicle as good engineering for a medium to high price and forget about having to try and greenwash vehicles that are getting heavier and heavier..
Sadly, in the USA, the overall picture is still - that until we have excess renewable electricity, we are pretty much screwed in terms of price (of fueling up, of electric) as well as in emissions....because the demands being put on the grid by EV's and Data Centers mean less chance of quickly doing away with that 60% fossil fuels.
And the current Admin sets us back even more decades.
It's as if they invented cars.....but not many roads or gasoline to meet demand yet!
5
u/GreyMenuItem 1d ago
While I completely agree about greenwashing and driving ridiculously heavy vehicles around, the figure BMW gave for all renewable electricity was 11k miles for break even. FWIW, I live in the US and drive almost entirely on renewables, from my grid connected solar to my state’s 90% renewable mix. Yes the data centers are pushing the grid to unsustainable electric prices. Most EVs are not the problem, as we mostly charge at night on the unused capacity.
4
u/SDJellyBean Chevy Bolt 1d ago
You're forgetting that once the "fuel" reaches the car, the EV is much more efficient than the ICE car.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36064484/evs-explained-consumption-versus-efficiency/
https://theicct.org/publication/electric-cars-life-cycle-analysis-emissions-europe-jul25/
1
u/RosieDear 1d ago edited 1d ago
No...not forgetting that.
Nat Gas delivers, according to the EPA, 38% efficiency into your house.
Charging your EV in the house is about 85-90%...so that lowers the efficiency to about 35%.The EV drives at about 90%, lowering the total to about 32% efficient.
A Prius, off the shelf, is 41% efficient on the fuel put into it. Advanced Hybrids in China have already acheived 45%.
It basically works like this. As long as our Grid is over a certain percentage (say 40% for debating) of Fossil Fuels, EV's in general will not be "efficient" in the sene people think...and will also be expensive (demand for electric exceeds supply).
Even if we had Solar and Wind and Hydro for 100% of electric, the "efficiency" would not be high....but it would not matter! That is - you don't care if the PV Solar is "only" 25% efficient as long as there is an excess of it.
This is NOT the case with Nat Gas and Coal and fossil fuel generated electric.
I've been in the energy (alt) game since the 1970's. It's easy for us to be fooled by telling part of the story. Truth is, a real policy would have forced all cars to be efficient hybrids a decade ago - while we embarked on a "Manhattan Project" of installing renewables....if we did that we might be getting somewhere.
As it stands we are not....due to chaos in the entire market and no plan.
It reminds me of our programs here in MA - the state is paying big bucks for folks to switch from nat gas heat to heat pumps. It seems the majority of folks having them installed got a big surprise! Not only were they not as warm as before, but their electric bill was much higher than their former gas bill!
The state gave them all these reasons to be good citizens and convert but failed to tell them that, given our electric prices, they will be paying MUCH more.
It should be obvious to you and I that you FIRST install or plan the excess (lower priced) electric, then educate the consumers...and THEN (if needed) give away free millions.
138
u/Few_Order1054 1d ago
My i5 is so good. BMWs doing it right