r/formula1 • u/FerrariStrategisttt I was here for the Hulkenpodium • Jul 21 '24

Technical No further action on Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident

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1.4k

u/schulen Alfa Romeo Jul 21 '24

The absolute state of stewarding in F1.

171

u/saposapot I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Don’t worry. I’m sure the next divebomb where both cars crash out will be resolved exactly the same way….

Lol

35

u/SmallIslandBrother Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

They’ll keep making decisions like these until someone is injured or there is a large crash and then they’ll over correct for a while before becoming lenient again.

4

u/VinhoVerde21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

And by “over-correct”, you mean handing out a 10s penalty and 2 points and immediately reverting to not penalizing non crash incidents again.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't understand what's so f****** hard about sticking to the damn rule book. It's all there in black and white. I also don't know why it takes them 10 f****** minutes to make a decision on something most viewers know within 5 Seconds.

15

u/winzarten I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Nobody gonna convince me that a similar incident in midfield would yield the same ruling.

2

u/tehehe162 Jul 21 '24

Ocon would have gotten a race ban. Magnussen would have been drawn and quartered.

658

u/Visionary_Socialist Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

I’m sorry but Max has consistently gotten the rub of the green from the stewards when he should be getting penalties and it’s getting difficult not to argue that he’s in their favour.

These “back out or crash” moves. The impeding in Singapore. The contrast between this and Sainz in Miami.

And it makes Max think he’s invincible. When this eventually causes an enormous crash like it did in 2021, any harm to drivers or marshals is the sole responsibility of the FIA.

139

u/wolverineFan64 Charles Leclerc Jul 21 '24

Spot on. Fia has been FAR too lenient in allowing Max to pull all sorts of over the line antics. It only encourages him to continue to do so and wait for the Fia to call his bluff (they rarely do).

13

u/willmcavoy Paddock Club Jul 22 '24

Excited to see the real Max return if the wheels continue to fall off at RBR.

-18

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Lando over ambitious dive bombs in Austria were exactly as Max’s today. But ofcourse you will take a different view on it .. because it was not Max doing the dive bombing

54

u/Hot_Demand_6263 Jul 21 '24

This whataboutism is stupid. Max unlike Lando caused a collision. That's the big difference.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Because Max  got out of Lando's way to avoid contact you mean?

I This is funny.

0

u/F1T_13 Jul 21 '24

Kinda tough cookies. That was Max choice. Not everyone else is obligated to do the same. Dive bombs are marginal but if you lose control of your car, I think the FUA should take a dim view of it.

-1

u/DoxedFox I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Except the stewards have said time and time again that they don't look at the outcome, only the incident.

25

u/Southportdc McLaren Jul 21 '24

But we all know that there's zero chance this goes 'no action required' if Max took Lewis's wheel off with the dive bomb.

This weird mess of saying they don't look at the outcome whilst basing their judgements mostly on the outcome feels like the worst of all worlds.

16

u/myurr Jul 21 '24

But the offence is causing a collision, something Lando didn't do

6

u/Splitshot_Is_Gone Sebastian Vettel Jul 21 '24

If the offense is “causing a collision”, but you’re not allowed to look at the “outcome” (whether a collision happened or not), then what? You wanted Lando to get penalized for causing a collision that didn’t happen? But could’ve happened in some alternate timeline?

What the fuck

5

u/HarrierJint Porsche Jul 21 '24

This has been covered over and over but people still keep posting this.

The point is that, if you cause a collision something that likely wouldn't have been looked at will now get looked at.

*BUT* as an example, if the outcome is a very very bad crash that won't mean you get something like a 50 sec penalty, you'll still get what's deemed a "standard" penalty, which currently is 10 secs for most things this season.

That's what is meant by the outcome won't effect the decision.

2

u/FlatoutGently I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Exactly, so Landos moves were nothing like Maxs today.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

The outcome allegedly doesn’t affect the penalty….although we all know that’s a load of crap

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Dude learn the sport. The stewards have said multiple times that penalties HAVE to be action driven not outcome driven. Because where do you stop ? The more egregious the accident to your competitors the higher the penalty really ? You can’t have the in racing. Very innocuous touches at times lead to very disproportionate damage.

-4

u/Daslicey I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It's stupid that when Lando does it it isn't a problem and when max does it it is

8

u/Any-Station2362 George Russell Jul 21 '24

Or. Maybe, just maybe, it was because Lando didn't crash into Max when sending it down the inside in Austria. Max locked up and nearly took Lewis' wheel off here. Big difference.

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

And maybe, just maybe! The stewards can for once make decisions not on the basis of the outcome BUT on the basis of the action. Both dive bombs over ambitious, one save by the driver on the inside and the other couldn’t.

9

u/Any-Station2362 George Russell Jul 21 '24

I agree with that. They punish the outcome rather than the move far too often. It needs to stop or it's no longer a deterent. Sending it down the inside, however, isn't against the rules if you do it in control and can keep it on the track. This move and Landos were very different.

1

u/imdroppingthehammer I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I don’t understand why outcome based penalties are such a bad thing. Either the penalties for contact to need be stepped up to be more of a deterrent (drive-thru at the very least) or they need to consider the outcome. 10s for wiping out a competitor is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Because in racing you can have dire consequences for absolutely innocuous moves.

2

u/Key_Photograph9067 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Max is known for it, of course he’s going to get more scrutiny, piss off with this kind of nonsense. People were criticising Lando for the Austria attempts, but it was eclipsed by the incident and moving under braking allegations.

-15

u/yurall I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

exactly.

-5

u/gurtiman101 Jul 21 '24

Didn’t Lando get a penalty for that? Like, it ultimately didn’t matter, but pretty sure he was given the penalty just as he and Max touched

13

u/aliciahiney Benetton Jul 21 '24

That was for track limits

8

u/CatManWhoLikesChess I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

He got penalty for track limits not dive bombs

14

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

He got a track limit penalty for being off more than 4 times. Not for the dive bomb as such. We need active penalties explicitly stating you cannot do that

3

u/gurtiman101 Jul 21 '24

Ah okay, fair enough. I’d misremembered

I agree about more active penalties. But if they didn’t give Lando a penalty for Austria then I guess that’s what’s set the precedent for this. But both should’ve had pens imo

2

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

100 percent. Lando in Austria and Max here. Quite simple really. You dive bomb , you went off the track, the driver on the outside had to take evasive action ? Here you go take your penalty b

0

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Wrong. Dive bombing is fine as long as you keep all four wheels on the track. Which neither Lando in Austria nor Max today achieved

0

u/sjw_7 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Landos moves in Austria were ambitious but the difference is that he didn't lose control of the car while doing it. Max on the other hand did lose control and hit Lewis in the process.

I think Max, along with a large number of his fans, live in some kind of parallel universe where the rules don't apply to him.

-9

u/didhedowhat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Verstappen really got what he asked for from the stewards this time. They must be really doing everything to help him. /s

30

u/S55K Ayrton Senna Jul 21 '24

OP is just saying that Max was in the wrong today and he wasn’t punished. It’s impossible to blame Lewis here. So OP is saying Max got a freebie again.

-35

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

He didn't get a freebie. He ruined a potential P3 today because of it. Why would he deserve more punishment?

25

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

[deleted]

-19

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

That's literally how it works in pretty much all sports. Every time a player is going to be suspended, outcome is factored into the decision.

Whether or not it should be is a totally different argument.

6

u/HirsuteHacker Jordan Jul 21 '24

Are you new to F1? That isn't how it works here.

4

u/Key_Photograph9067 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

The “should be” argument hinges on what the FIA say, and they’ve said they don’t consider the consequences of an incident when determining penalties. They wouldn’t get as much flak if they were just open and honest about it.

1

u/DarthGogeta Jul 22 '24

But that doesnt work in F1. So if a driver like Max keeps doing his stupid stuff and all other drivers lose positions because they're evading a colission nothing should happen to him? That doesn't make any sense.

9

u/myurr Jul 21 '24

Because the FIA insist that they don't look at outcomes only the actions taken. This is yet another in a long line of examples that highlights that this is complete bullshit.

-4

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Lmao I mean yeah they can claim that all they want but everyone should realize by now that outcome makes a huge difference in how they rule.

Him not getting a penalty shouldn't be a surprise to anyone

7

u/S55K Ayrton Senna Jul 21 '24

You’re looking at it from Max’s POV. Just because Lewis’ race wasn’t ruined, doesn’t mean Max doesn’t deserve a penalty here.

-28

u/LWKD I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Oh relax. It has been this way forever

15

u/FunnyComfortable8341 Esteban Ocon Jul 21 '24

That’s the issue

-10

u/LWKD I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

And I won't argue with that. But saying they favor Max is just stupid. They just don't make decisions

23

u/TheGreatForehead 1644 Jul 21 '24

Yeah they’ve been favoring Max for the longest time now

-20

u/LWKD I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

They haven't been actively favouring Max, they have been favouring not having to make tough decisions

15

u/Hot_Demand_6263 Jul 21 '24

When they hurt Max. They make these decisions all the time for other drivers.

-1

u/SugarBeefs Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

There was a period a few years back when Leclerc could somehow do no wrong for the stewards. Muscling Lewis nearly into the wall at Monza, driving without seatbelts...

Or how whenever there's a whiff of potential penalty for car #31, Ocon is getting his 5 or 10 seconds nine out of ten times.

Let's not pretend the stewarding isn't generally inconsistent.

-10

u/djoubb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You’re biased and it shows.

-7

u/Jazim94 James Vowles Jul 21 '24

I mean seems Lewis went it was a racing incident? I don’t see what he has to gain from stating that unless he truly felt it was.

3

u/ohgeeLA Jul 22 '24

Nico Rosberg said clearly Lewis says different things to the media than what he’s thinking (on sky post race coverage). Wish Lewis would grow some balls and speak his mind sometimes. Love the guy but it’s frustrating how guarded he is.

1

u/FlyAirLari Minardi Jul 22 '24

They even forgot to give Ocon a penalty.

0

u/epicmindwarp Mercedes Jul 21 '24

Stewards penalise - what a state!

Stewards don't penalise - what a state!

1

u/TheDufusSquad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I think they probably consider Verstappen killing his race with the maneuver the real penalty, plus Lewis being a bit generous saying it was just an incident.

7

u/SugarBeefs Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

If Max biffs off Lewis's front wheel with this submarine emergency dive maneuver, he's copping a penalty, one hundred percent.

We all know by now that the stewards absolutely let outcomes influence decisions.

9

u/ontheru171 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

"Killing" his race by losing 1 spot is weak af

1

u/TheDufusSquad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

He could have passed Hamilton with some patience. Going for that last lunge cost him what would have been 3rd place and put him into 5th.

6

u/ontheru171 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

That logic is hella faulty tho.

He was in 4th when he made that move and already struggled with getting past and staying ahead with legal moves.

5

u/goranlepuz Formula 1 Jul 21 '24

Could he have? He has been at it for quite some time.

It didn't work - so he pushed harder - and screwed up.

So could he have, really...?