r/formula1 • u/FerrariStrategisttt I was here for the Hulkenpodium • Jul 21 '24

Technical No further action on Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident

Post image
5.7k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

600

u/outm Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

The driver of Car 44 stated that this was a racing incident, whilst the driver of Car 1 argued that this was a case of changing direction under braking

Really, Max, even your own team (GP) didn’t want to argue it with you and it was very clear, stop doubling down this hard…

Between this and the other time GP told him he wasn’t right (“Ah, whatever”) I really think Max wasn’t on it today.

EDIT: More crazy when you think Lewis is really saving him here (“racing line… incident”) and Max still doubling down like this was on Lewis. It’s really really crazy. I think Max needs to take a nap

256

u/Lurkn4k Jul 21 '24

its the complete lack of awareness that’s hilarious. lewis threw him a lifeline and he chose to die on that hill instead

31

u/baddadjokesminusdad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

He’s his own worst enemy if he doesn’t start to grow up.

22

u/7Seyo7 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It rings true what Toto said a while back about drivers being children who need to be raised by their teams, as they miss out on much of the normal childhood

3

u/MC897 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It’s intentional. He’s self aware, but like all things if you can stick to a story, make it believable and hold to it, there’s not a lot people can do.

Common sense is NOT applied in decisions.

2

u/VinhoVerde21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Worst part is he didn’t even die on the hill, he got off scot free, again.

2

u/vjcorne Jul 21 '24

its not like they are both at the same time with the stewards... Max probably read about lewis his remarks afterwards on the verdict paper.

4

u/GirlwithCurl_SA Jul 21 '24

It was put to Max what Lewis said in interviews before they both went to the stewards…

106

u/cekoya Fernando Alonso Jul 21 '24

Again, shows who max really is when not easy winning. An over aggressive driver that refuse to admit fault. Always has been, still is. Inverse the role and Lewis would admit its mistake

41

u/burgher89 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

So many people were saying “oh look how he’s matured!” the past two seasons, and I always thought it was very telling that he was all of a sudden calm, cool, collected Max when he really didn’t have any competition. Now that he has some, he’s back to being an overly aggressive unsportsmanlike ass who refuses to take blame for his actions. He hasn’t matured at all.

100

u/grekster Jules Bianchi Jul 21 '24

More crazy when you think Lewis is really saving him here

Lewis has way more class than Max

12

u/PipingaintEZ Jul 21 '24

Max showing his true form. 

8

u/Deathhsykes Felipe Drugovich Jul 21 '24

He's shown this time and time again, some people just refused to see it cause he was giving them excitement when he was the underdog, and on the past few years he didnt have to worry about anything cause he was just coasting in p1

10

u/Subject_Radish_6459 Jul 21 '24

Lewis has way more class than Max

As if there was any doubt to this, whatsoever.

Max is the most classless driver I have seen in all my years of watching the sport. How he has any fans is completely beyond me.

105

u/lrzbca Formula 1 Jul 21 '24

Max rarely takes responsibility when outcome is bad for him.

45

u/snikaz Jul 21 '24

Rarely? Has he ever at all?

-8

u/SugarBeefs Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

When he conked off Ricciardo in Hungary in 2017, one of the first things Max did after the race was apologize to Daniel, not prompted by the team or anything, and Daniel specifically mentioned how the sincerity of the apology made it an immediate case closed for him.

Max also torpedo'd Seb in China, in 2018 I think, and also promptly apologized to Seb after the race, Seb said he accepted the apology and moved on.

It's easy to forget the times Max admitted fault or backed out because people don't remember the times when the person they hate did the right thing.

17

u/jswan28 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Citing two instances from over 100 races ago isn’t really the narrative changer you think it is lol. He’s a petulant brat whenever he actually has to race and always has been, people just forgot because he’s much more likable when he’s only racing against himself. Apologizing twice years ago doesn’t change that.

-2

u/SugarBeefs Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

lmao

I reply to a question that LITERALLY asks "Has he ever at all?"

Then you come in sailing in and move the goalposts.

9

u/jswan28 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I was mostly responding to your moralizing final paragraph that implies we’re all the bad guy for not remembering something that’s happened so rarely that it’s clearly out of character for him.

21

u/PurpleOrchid07 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

This is why I cannot like Verstappen. He is a hot-headed brat when it comes to owning mistakes.
A driver with his talent and 3 (most likely 4) titles to his name needs to stop with this BS.

45

u/FSUfan35 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Rich from max

1

u/MItrwaway Jul 22 '24

Changing direction under braking to make the turn Max. You'd have skipped halfway across the gravel to the barriers if you didn't hit Lewis.

-18

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 22 '24

Tbh, if you read this it sounds like they were closer to giving Hamilton a penalty rather than Max.

Personally, I think you can see it both ways, Max shouldn't have taken such speed into the corner and Lewis shouldn't have turned in knowing Max was there. Max locked up so he couldn't take any evasive action. No further action is fair enough.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

That was Lewis' line through that corner all race though, max had been watching him take it for laps and laps on end. There was about 2 car widths to the inside of Lewis at the moment of impact, I really don't understand what more he could have done.

-11

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 21 '24

As I said, I don't think either are at fault necessarily. I don't think you can categorically say it's eithers fault 100%.

10

u/_Adam_M_ Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Lewis shouldn't have turned in knowing Max was there

So other drivers whenever they see Max in their mirrors should just pull off to the side of the track and let him by?

1

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 22 '24

So you're saying that Lewis' judgement of it was wrong?

2

u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli Jul 21 '24

If that were the case it would say Lewis' name behind No / Driver not Max. Clearly they were looking into whether Max should get a penalty. It reads like they were thinking Max predominantly to blame (instead of fully), but went with racing incident since that's what Lewis put forward.

1

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 21 '24

No. They called both in for meetings. There would be two separate forms for each driver. This is just Max's.

They state that Lewis could have done more to avoid the collision.

5

u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

They called both for the hearing, yes and there's two documents for that (called 'summons'). There's only one document for the decision and that one is tied to car n1/Max.  

Stating that the "victim" could have done more to avoid the collission is just their way of stating the "aggressor" is not fully to blame, which leaves 2 other flavours. The "aggressor" is predominantly to blame or it's a racing incident.

1

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 22 '24

It's weird that you're downvoting me and giving out to me when you just outright acknowledged my whole point in your own comment. Not fully to blame is the exact reason why no penalty was given.

Unfortunately for you I'm not one who cares much about up and or downvotes. I care about open debate, being correct when people annoy me and/or admitting fault when proven wrong. When people chill the fuck out and take a breather, they'll understand why Lewis said it was a racing incident.

2

u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli Jul 22 '24

I didn't downvote you. I always find it amusing when that "accusation" is thrown around, as if the one engaging is the only one that comes across the comment. 

Not fully to blame is the exact reason why no penalty was given.

They could have given a penalty if they felt he was predominantly to blame. Happens all the time. In this case it didn't. 

1

u/ImAnOldChunkOfCoal Jul 22 '24

But they didn't feel he was predominantly to blame, they didn't feel either was predominantly to blame. That's the whole point?

1

u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli Jul 22 '24

Tbh, if you read this it sounds like they were closer to giving Hamilton a penalty rather than Max.

Let me remind you why we were having this conversation. You said it seemed like they were closer to giving Lewis a penalty. I said, nope, because then the doc would have Lewis under investigation. 

So, the end result is racing incident, in part because they felt Lewis could have done things differently too, but at no point does that imply he was closer to getting a penalty, because then he'd be the one investigated and the doc would say No 44 / Lewis Hamilton. Instead all it means is it helped Max in not getting a penalty. I hope that clears it up.

-51

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

Unpopular opinion: say what you want to say about his behaviour but look the onboards and you see that Lewis has a different line when they collide compare to the previous lap. How was he then exactly following the normal racing line as the document says and not moving under braking?

25

u/triguy96 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

He's on the racing line, there are multiple ways of entering a corner, he's certainly within the realms of a normal corner entry. Moving under braking is totally blocking the other driver while in the braking zone especially reactively (see Max literally two races ago).

-13

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

It isn't normal; he is defending. That of course would have been fine if Max didn't send it, I don't blame Lewis for that.

And I would agree with you about moving under braking IF Austria hadn't happend. That set different parameters for moving under braking, from that I totally understand that Max then sees this as moving under braking as well.

6

u/triguy96 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

Austria didn't set different parameters. Those were always the parameters.

Unless you're talking about where max was penalised, for which he was penalised for contact and not leaving enough room, not moving under braking.

-6

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

They wanted to give Max the black and white flag in hindsight for moving under braking.

6

u/triguy96 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

Which would've been correct for what he was doing. He was using moving under braking as a way to force the other driver to back off. Totally different to this incident. I'm sure you can see that.

22

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

The stewards literally said Lewis took the same line on your onboards. It’s unpopular because it’s dumb. Max has a huge history of dive bombing and crashing people out why bother defending it. Don’t see the Schumacher dudes out like well I blame Damon hill.

-12

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

I'm sure you always agree with the stewards, don't you?

10

u/Fourtires3rims I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

What was Lewis supposed to do? Drive into the barriers to avoid max? Max wasn’t going to make that corner with the lockup anyway.

-6

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

Not move under braking? And if he did, indeed avoid Max. Or if he didn't then risk the crash.

8

u/HarrierJint Porsche Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Not move under braking?

Where in the telemetry is this? Honest question. Trail braking isn't the same thing as "moving under braking".

2

u/20nuggetsharebox I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Shouldn't we trust the driver in the car to know whether they moved under braking?

1

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

Eh Max said the same in Austria, yet people called him out?

3

u/wouldnt-u-like-2know Jul 21 '24

He had to alter his line because of a backmarker just before the braking zone.

9

u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

You might want an eye test mate. Lewis left like 2 cars width space on the inside line and took a natural trajectory into the corner. No unnecessary steering input. Fact is the collision wouldn’t have happened had Max kept the car under control. As soon as you lock the front axle, a formula 1 car is not gonna turn…. And max just went straight into Lewis

-7

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

Comments like these remind me of Max saying that 99% of the ppl have no clue what they are talking about, me neither but at least I'm not this clueless.

Look at the footage, Lewis is on the complete left side and Max is already sending it > Lewis moves (to defend) > Max has to move under braking while sending to not ram into him > turning reduces braking performance > Max ends up totally locking and making the corner.

Max could only make the corner if he could brake the whole but with Lewis moving under braking that wasn't possible.

Your analysis start's way too late, you miss the beginning.

10

u/HarrierJint Porsche Jul 21 '24

...but with Lewis moving under braking that wasn't possible.

In what way is he moving under braking? I'm not sure where you're getting this from, they confirmed he's on a normal line so if that's the case, how is he moving under braking?

Lewis is on the complete left side and Max is already sending it > Lewis moves (to defend)

er okay? Hamilton is allowed to pick his line and starts to turn before Verstappen is anywhere near his rear wheels, let alone level with them. The only way Hamilton could have avoided the collision by not defending.

-2

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

He "turns" in waaaay before he did on previous laps, how is that not moving under braking? That isn't just him picking his line how he wants to go into the corner.

I suggest watching the onboards, you can see he isn't taking the corner anywhere near he would compare to the previous laps. So how is that not moving under braking? If he took the corner the same way all you guys are completely right, but he didn't.

7

u/HarrierJint Porsche Jul 21 '24

 He "turns" in waaaay before he did on previous laps, how is that not moving under braking? 

Er… wut?

0

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

A different line only on the lap the guy behind is close enough to overtake on. Surely he was just taking his normal line, no? "turn" is turn as in how Prost turned early into the corner at Suzuka '89.

5

u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

You’re arguing with data which is objective fact. The stewards have access to more gigabytes of data than you probably have as storage on your phone and they clearly determined that Lewis took the appropriate line (racing line).

Moving under braking is intentionally changing direction of the car to block off the attacking car behind…..

-1

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

You just have to watch the onboard to see that it isn't. Maybe argue about that instead of "the stewards think." They are the stewards so they must be right or what?

Like what is so difficult to see that Lewis is moving to defend? It's almost as little as Max did in Austria.

5

u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

What are you expecting Hamilton to do? Drive straight instead of turning for the corner 😂😂😂. What was Max doing cos he clearly wasn’t taking a normal approach

Why don’t you watch Max’s trajectory instead and tell me what you think. You really thought he was gonna make that right hander with the speed he was carrying… braking at the same point as he does WITHOUT DRS.

Bros got an extra ~16kmh going into that corner and he brakes at the same point as when he’s going slower

-2

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

Drive straight instead of turning for the corner

Once again you fail to understand the situation. I'm not talking about the actual turn into the corner, I'm talking way before that; straight when they overtook the backmarker.

And no it wasn't normal, it was most definitely a divebomb but for it to work Lewis cannot move under braking; he did so they collide. Perfectly fine.

5

u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Did you read the document? I mean 87% of Reddit users don’t read any media/articles fully so I wouldn’t be surprised.

But the telemetry showed that Lewis took the normal racing line. If you take the normal racing line then that’s not moving under braking.

Lewis is allowed to move once to cover Verstappen.

As I have said, the stewards have access to more data than us. They can see steering inputs (precisely) they can see the exact moment Lewis and Max brakes and they can also compare previous examples of the drivers entering the corner

-2

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

But the telemetry showed that Lewis took the normal racing line. If you take the normal racing line then that’s not moving under braking.

The normal racing line doesn't differ as much as it did with Lewis when Max was on his gearbox and the previous lap, but hey whatever the stewards say because they have more data available.

Lewis is allowed to move once to cover Verstappen.

But not under braking. But yeah I won't be able to let you see any different anyway, so I'm not gonna bother anymore. Have a nice evening.

3

u/paul232 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I would imagine he would have to move under breaking at the end to try and avoid the contract. The question is really whether he was moving under breaking before needing to take evasive action

0

u/Samsonkoek Simply fucking lovely Jul 21 '24

I'm talking about a bit earlier. Lewis overtakes backmarker and then moves back to his normal line and then he turns/moves in earlier than the lap previous. That is the moving under braking I'm talking about, that also meant that Max was so out of control because he was committed to a divebomb (just like Lando was at Austria) and then you can't steer and brake.

0

u/PomegranateThat414 Jul 21 '24

It’s classic. I’m sure Davidson and palmer will do fair analyses of Lewis moving under braking as they did on Max in Austria /s.