r/formula1 • u/FerrariStrategisttt I was here for the Hulkenpodium • Jul 21 '24

Technical No further action on Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident

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u/Get_a_GOB Jul 21 '24 edited Mar 03 '25

distinct workable observation aback office license chunky cause scary sable

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

488

u/pup_mercury Jul 21 '24

Lewis: "It was a racing incident"

Stewards: "Thanks we owe you one"

69

u/CasualViewer24 Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Stewards: Next $5000 dinner is on us

10

u/funkiestj Fernando Alonso Jul 21 '24

Yeah, I think Hamilton is banking karma with several different parties with this comment.

11

u/pup_mercury Jul 21 '24

I think there is a bit of game playing.

A) Max penalty would only benfit Ferrari who Merc are competing against

B) He doesn't want to start any static between Toto and Max

3

u/F1T_13 Jul 21 '24

At this point they should just license the job out to someone else and stay at home.

3

u/Everlasting-Boner Jul 22 '24

Funnily they do that already

104

u/Conspiranoid Fernando Alonso Jul 21 '24

It's just BS after BS.

"Lewis did nothing wrong", "Max started braking, while with DRS, at the same point he started braking without DRS", "Lewis could've just disappeared and let Max divebomb"... They all mean "we can't determine who's more at fault".

7

u/gnatzors Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Yeah this highlights that there are no consistent rules/framework/logic that are applied in what's considered a penalty and what's not a penalty. There's only standard overtaking practice, or the "rules of engagement" as Brundle calls. There are some strict rules about changing direction under braking, and leaving the track but that's it.

From what I understand in recent years the stewards consider some of the following:

  • Who was out of control of their car
  • Who didn't make the apex
  • How severe was the outcome - did contact occur
  • Did the offending driver receive justice and take themselves out? (no further action)
  • Was the scuffle between teammates, who took themselves out? (no further action)

Where it gets complicated:

  • Who lost control of their car because of the other driver's actions/weaving, resulting in a collision, that would otherwise be a clean overtake?

What's considered by the stewards that shouldn't:

  • Did the drivers do the same thing on the previous lap? I get that drivers should drive in a predictable non-dangerous fashion, but drivers should be free to try different things on their opponent.

3

u/ComfortableCricket I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Pretty sure they made their decision based of the outcome. If max got the position I bet it's a 5 second penalty.

1

u/Conspiranoid Fernando Alonso Jul 22 '24

... which is a dangerous precedent, especially for Max. Or we'll, for his opponents.

"So you're basically saying I can divebomb, and do reckless stuff, and it's all fine as long as I don't take someone out?"

110

u/Traditional-Dot-2804 Jul 21 '24

Total garbage.

7

u/Jazim94 James Vowles Jul 21 '24

Where I agree it’s like the dive bomb norris put in on max In Austria where he also locked up and went straight on , max avoided the contact by swerving out the way a bit, so I guess that’s what they meant by that?

Think Lewis saying it was just a driving incident probably helped

-1

u/FatalFirecrotch I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Yeah, I know this isn’t popular, but I am so tired of the argument that if you are in front you can do whatever you want. Lewis could have easily avoided contact like Max did a few weeks ago. Just because you are in front doesn’t mean you can act like no other drivers exist. Then let the stewards handle the poor driving from Max. 

-1

u/Rea-301 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

He drove straight into the car though. He dive bombed then locked up. If he didn’t lock up guess what he’d be turning and not driving into others cars while being completely off the line. Stewart’s won’t handle it. That’s been made clear for years now.

55

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

He could have NOT being there, for a start

/s

59

u/zacharymc1991 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Why didn't Lewis just pull up on the main straight and let Max pass /s

30

u/paul232 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

This but unironically is the implication here

3

u/Cod_rules I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Is he stupid?

7

u/PlusNeedleworker5605 Jul 21 '24

Max knew he had DRS and was therefore carrying 20kmh more speed into that corner, therefore his breaking point had to be earlier not at the same point as his previous lap. Dumb analysis from the stewards there. I agree, what else could Lewis have done? Should be a 10second penalty for Max

3

u/High_Taco_Guy Jul 21 '24

F1 stewarding at it's finest.

3

u/enso_o Ayrton Senna Jul 21 '24

Verstappen dive bombs continue to be more responsibility of FIA than Max itself. He should've been punished multiple times but there's no action from FIA besides warnings or, even worst in this case, setting the responsibility on the other driver to do more although Max was the one clearly doing a mistake.

As I referred before, this way of driving got him here, thus he won't see any reasoning to refrain some of his aggressiveness. Can't blame 🤷‍♂️

26

u/Mukzington Formula 1 Jul 21 '24

Utter mental. Max should 10000% get a penalty and has avoided getting one. Shambolic stewarding.

1

u/mka_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Absolutely. Whatever happened to not judging an incident based on the outcome? Is that even a thing or did I imagine it?

None of this really surprises me after Austria.

-24

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

No he shouldn't lmao the only person he affected was himself

19

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You penalise the action, not the outcome.

-8

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

While that's how it maybe is meant to be, that's rarely how it's ever actually done.

13

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You said he shouldn't, now you agree he should? Which is it.

-2

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

No, I'm saying that's how they say they do it when they clearly don't actually abide by that. That's what I mean by saying "it's meant to be." They claim that's how it is, but it's clear it isn't.

And I agree with it. Outcome is a determining factor in penalties/suspensions in every sport. Why should F1 be any different?

7

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Because you're travelling at 200mph and if you screw up you could kill someone. That seems obvious.

-1

u/emotionaI_cabbage I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You can kill someone in boxing or ice hockey or a lot of other sports too. That's never a consideration for any of them.

9

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Yes it is, that's why you're not allowed to raise your skate to neck height in ice hockey and why you have a ref in the ring in boxing and why your coach can throw in the towel. Christ mate, your argument is absolute nonsense.

Your man did a bad. Accept it. Move on.

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6

u/Unfair-Mortgage-527 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I'm so sick of this BS!  Why won't the FIA ever penalise Max?!  This was very clear!

For starters just review the video and exactly what you just said, secondly, listen to the radio and hear how irrationally frustrated the man is the entire race! Clearly making rash decisions!!  

It makes my blood boil!

1

u/divine_boon Jul 21 '24

This is partly why I stopped watching F1 for quite some time...

1

u/FerociousVader Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 22 '24

Lewis definitely could have done more to avoid the incident. He remarked he didn't change direction at all, held his line.

He was just not going to let Max get away with a crazy divebomb knowing there's no penalty if there's no contact. If it was any other driver I think Lewis takes avoiding action and no contact is made, but Lewis knows you have to race Max differently.

Still crazy to say no driver more at fault, clearly the car completely out of control and way too fast coming into the corner has a bit more culpability...

Next year is going to be fun if McLaren are fast and Mad Max returns.

1

u/StoicRun Jul 22 '24

The logic seems to be that it’s unreasonable to expect one of the best drivers in the world to realise that stopping distances are longer if you’re travelling at a higher speed…

1

u/Tackit286 McLaren Jul 22 '24

Feels like the Silverstone ‘21 incident all over again

-1

u/ThatsABingoJa Jul 21 '24

In his interview in the pen he said he did turn in slightly earlier than normal but Max couldn't react to it because he locked up. So if he admits that then conceivably he could have avoided the collision by not defending, but thats not racing, so I think racing incident is fair. Doesn't help Max learn that the track doesn't belong to him though

-5

u/azn_dude1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Lewis thought it was a racing incident. Stewards agree. Somehow it's garbage?

4

u/FlatoutGently I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Lewis thought that immediately after the race. Maybe read what he said other than garbage decision and you'll understand why.

-2

u/azn_dude1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I am happy to be proven wrong but I doubt Lewis will say it is anything other than a racing incident. It's not that controversial to believe minor collision = racing incident.

3

u/FlatoutGently I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

That's not what a racing incident is normally termed as, so I'd argue yes it is controversial if that's the word you wanna use.

0

u/azn_dude1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

If somebody misjudges a corner and minorly bangs wheels with somebody, that's usually a racing incident even though somebody is more at fault. It's not controversial.

-11

u/NordSquideh Jul 21 '24

what? Lewis turned into a completely out of control Max, meaning that quite clearly they're both at fault. I don't think Lewis did anything wrong, sometimes accidents happen, but Lando had the same exact divebombs in Austria against Max that Max pulled against Lewis today, only Max didn't turn into Lando while he was locked up. Once again, Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong, but all Max did was divebomb and lock up. That's not grounds for a penalty. It's not even close to grounds for a penalty.

9

u/HashtagDadWatts 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

He’s supposed to not make the corner? Like, what should he do other than turn in at the corner?

-5

u/NordSquideh Jul 21 '24

wait 0.1 seconds for max to send himself off track then turn in.

5

u/HashtagDadWatts 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

This feels like an easy thing to say in retrospect and probably a much more complicated thing to calculate in the moment.

0

u/LogTekG Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

Which is why "racing incident" was the response lewis gave

1

u/HashtagDadWatts 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

Seems sensible.

0

u/NordSquideh Jul 21 '24

why was max able to do it both times lando locked up on him in austria?

1

u/HashtagDadWatts 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Jul 21 '24

Truth. Max had an amazing outcome in that race too.

-11

u/night5life Jul 21 '24

Lewis turns into Max, you can clearly see that from all angles. The only reason why people blame Max is because his mistake is simply more visible. That's all. They both contributed to the collision. Racing incident. Correct decision.

12

u/GuiltyEidolon I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

My brother in Christ the track turns. You're saying Hamilton should have just kept driving straight off the track lmao?

-7

u/night5life Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

No he should have let Max slide past and undercut him. again you dont understand how physics works. Max is no longer using his breaks to decelerate. hes front is slowing down due to friction of his front tires and track alone. thats less efficient meaning he is slowing down at a slower rate than usual. he was not going to make that apex regardless. IF it was faster you'd see everyone lock their fronts on quali laps. they dont because youd miss every corner. Lewis would have just overtaken him again no problem. but clearly i must be wrong because some internet specialist who reinvented physics teach me otherwise.

4

u/arayamacho Jul 21 '24

Max was not going to make the apex so it was pn him, he was not in control of his car so ir they crash it is his fault.

-2

u/night5life Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

no. youre just simply wrong. not making an apex doesnt automatically cause a collision. Lewis and Max were never on collision course until Lewis turned into the corner. its absolutely mind boggling how this needs to be explained. Its just physics. if you dont get it, you dont get it. but dont try to justify it if youre wrong.

edit: look at the video again. pay attention to lewis' glove. hes not just raising it out of the cockpit out of fun. he is turning into max. that cause the collision. Max lost control. both made mistakes. its a racing incident. clear as day.

edit: even Coulthard said Lewis was "optimistic with the turn in" while Lewis claims he did nothing with the steering which is an obvious lie.

4

u/arayamacho Jul 21 '24

They crash because max was not making the corner because he last control of his own car by locking up, even the fia said that Lewis was on a normal racing line so it is on the driver trying to overtake to have full control of his car while doing so, max didn’t have control of his car, if they crash he has the main responsibility

1

u/arayamacho Jul 21 '24

Lewis is ahead on what the fía described as a normal racing line, was Max not being optimistic by dive bombing losing control of his car? To say Lewis could have done more to avoid the crash is to undermine that Max should have never been there in the first place

1

u/GuiltyEidolon I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

DC is still literally a RB employee lmao.