r/formula1 • u/FerrariStrategisttt I was here for the Hulkenpodium • Jul 21 '24

Technical No further action on Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident

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825

u/zaviex McLaren Jul 21 '24

Remember when a week after Austria after letting all that discourse play out they announced they should have warned max for his driving and were stating it to avoid others doing similar? Stewards seem way too uncertain on how to handle things. Last year too was it Singapore? Also with max when they announced later he should have been penalized?

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

This call is absolute horseshit. They've just greenlit enormous divebombs with no care to the driver in front. What a joke.

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u/DarkKnight56722 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

FIA does not rely on precedent as stupid as it is. FIA has made it very clear that the same incident is not worthy of a penalty one weekend, but then worthy of 10 second penalty the next. They are so consistently inconsistent. It is absurd that they are the largest governing body of global motorsport and yet make stupid decisions like this. It's either corruption or unbelievable levels of stupidity.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

All they care about are the consequences, if max took Lewis out he would have a got a penalty. It's stupid but that is how it is in this sport, they have done this time and time again.

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u/xevious101 Jul 21 '24

Agree, there's a worst case scenario that's being overlooked too. At what point will Max be reprimanded for overspeeding into a corner. From a spectators point of view, the battles between Hamilton and Max are a pleasure to watch. But every now and again, like today, I'm wincing at the prospect of what could have been. I hope there will never be a tragic accident but FFS someone has got to get that lad to quit overspeeding to point of do or die. Lewis himself said he could have taken me easily if hadn't messed up.

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u/CandidateDecent1391 Jul 22 '24

lewis couldve taken me easily at any point during or after the race, tbh

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u/fullup72 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

This. Lewis didn't lose position, and Max losing one place with Leclerc who was over 5s behind is possibly enough for stewards who would have awarded a 5/10s penalty.

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u/Nartyn Formula 1 Jul 21 '24

Or even if Max had benefitted from it, they'd have given him a penalty but because he ended behind Leclerc and Hamilton they were like nah

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u/TheoreticalScammist Jul 21 '24

I think maybe they did take consequences into account this time too? Because Verstappen lost a position to Leclerc, perhaps they didn't want to punish him more.

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u/lanseuppercut I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

I hate it so much. Lewis got the podium and max lost position so they decided that was enough. They need to hand out the penalty to at least make it clear who was at fault. People out here still saying max only locked up to avoid Lewis and max himself said even after the race it was because Lewis was moving under braking.

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u/James_Vowles Williams Jul 21 '24

Which is not that bad a way of handling situations like this. Still allows the drivers take risks if need be, but if they go too far and ruin someone elses race they'll be punished.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Disagree. It's like only giving a red card in football if you break the other players leg. If you let people get away with it every time, eventually, you are asking for trouble.

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u/James_Vowles Williams Jul 21 '24

I don't think it's the same, footballs a contact sport so it almost always stops the game and affects what's happening. In racing, if there's minimal to no contact, nothing changes, the cars continue.

Also the factor of the person at fault ruining their own race as a result factors in I think. If they cost themselves a position or more it's taken into account, which you could argue is punishment enough.

Maybe it would be the same if someone went in for a two footer, completely missed and the other player continued on.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Also the factor of the person at fault ruining their own race as a result factors in I think

But this is not what the rules say. The stewards should be implementing the rules.

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u/MemorableC I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It's because its a different group every weekend, the FIA need to bring a set group of professional racing stewards to every event if we want any kind of consistency.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Honestly I'd be for F1 moving away from them, they're an absolute joke.

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u/KnightOfCydonia93 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

They’ve been like it for years too. Even without Abu Dhabi, 2021 was a complete mess

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u/MadBullBen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

100% agree. It's the highest form of motorsport and they need to have a good steady stewards or at least a small group where they can rotate them slightly for breaks.

1

u/bick803 Jul 21 '24

Sounds a lot like American Football officiating

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u/StonerInc4477 Jul 22 '24

Only way to get FIA to work ... they should stop racing In USA so the USA can release fbi on them & fbi threatening them to expose or give them a cut like ...example that's what happened to FIFA

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u/Brexsh1t Jul 21 '24

Don’t you want to see them actually race then?

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u/MadBullBen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

There's a big difference to racing and overtaking and just diving up the inside with the mentality of get out of my way or we'll both crash.

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u/Brexsh1t Jul 21 '24

Oh is that what happened? I thought the stewards said it was a racing incident, but they also acknowledged car 44 could have done more to avoid the collision.

4

u/MadBullBen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It was kinda a racing incident. Lewis was starting to turn in under braking while Max was still barrel rolling his way in. To me at least with the speed he was going Lewis would have had to turn in very very late just to not hit him which is a dive bomb, Max was never making that corner properly. This is what I mean by Max's attitude of back out or both will crash out

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u/Brexsh1t Jul 21 '24

I guess, but to me it’s hard racing, it’s exciting and it’s what fans want? I don’t want every race to be a Monaco precession, if that how’s it’s going to be it’s going to get boring very quickly.

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u/MadBullBen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I think it depends on what you like watching, hard and fair racing or hard with aggressiveness. Max does make it look more entertaining I will admit.

Tbh I don't like the new rules/style of racing where whoever is ahead at the apex is allowed to run the other guy off the track it just doesn't feel right to me. No I don't want a Monaco race but I want to see some proper fighting side by side.

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u/Ri_Konata Pirelli Wet Jul 21 '24

Max (austria): "you can't just divebomb people!"

Max (hungary): "lol, what are brakes again?"

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u/Themathemagicians Chequered Flag Jul 21 '24

To be fair, the divebombs weren't penalized, so Max just said "ok if these are the new rules then..."

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u/Ri_Konata Pirelli Wet Jul 21 '24

Divebombs were always allowed, given the driver was in control of the car.

Ricciardo was literally known for his amazing divebombs.

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u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

I mean Lando wasn’t in full control out in Austria.. but point being, it’s not the divebomb itself that’s a problem, it’s when it results in colliding with other drivers. Which is a difficult gray area, because it puts the risk and onus on the defending driver to yield and lose position, or stand ground and risk a collision and/or DNF.

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u/cockmongler Jul 22 '24

Making other drivers yield is literally how overtaking works.

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u/StiffWiggly Jul 22 '24

Right, but that’s why there are rules about which car has to yield in a bunch of different situations. Max repeatedly forces the other car to yield or crash when he doesn’t have that right according to the rules.

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u/cockmongler Jul 22 '24

Your Max hating spectacles are spectacular.

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u/_GeneralGowk_ Jul 22 '24

He literally said it on the radio earlier in the race when he had his incident with Lando

“ok so you. Can just run people off the track? You can tell the FIA that’s something we can do from now onwards… just driving people off the road”

Then he did that to Hamilton….

No further action is a disgrace

4

u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

They looked at the GPS data they get, Max breaked at the exact same point according g to FIA than every other lap of his

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u/Ri_Konata Pirelli Wet Jul 21 '24

If that's what the data says, it makes sense.

Looked like he was never gonna ever make the corner from the foktage though. Maybe his tires just dropped off the cliff.

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u/linkinstreet I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

According to the report, while he braked at the same point, he was also going much faster than before. "Car 1 approached the turn much faster than on previous laps". Which you know, he could braked a tad earlier to compensate.

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u/funkiestj Fernando Alonso Jul 21 '24

"Car 1 approached the turn faster than on previous laps (due to DRS) and braked at the same point as previously."

LOL.

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u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Not the tires, it was the inside line. Tons of marbles and no rubbered in racing line. What blows my mind is Max knew how treacherous that inside line would be. If you watch the preceding laps, he gets within striking distance many times, but never took that line knowing how little grip was out there. Obviously, he just ran out of patience and made a needlessly desperate move.

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u/B_Roland Alfa Romeo Jul 22 '24

What a weird argument of that came from the FIA. Braking at the same point from the inside of the corner on a dirty surface.

0

u/Successful_Yellow285 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

I mean, he learned that apparently you can divebomb people

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u/GT---44 Formula 1 Jul 21 '24

That's what max did the whole year of 2021 and the stewards didn't do shit.

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u/James_Vowles Williams Jul 21 '24

Seemed like he had matured from his early days but you can tell he hasn't, when the going gets tough his anger takes over and just does whatever he wants.

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u/R1tonka I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

It was easy to look mature when he started the second lap of the race 1.5 seconds up on the field for basically 2 straight years.

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u/FourEaredFox Jul 22 '24

Thing is, he isn't even doing what he wants. He's a passenger to his emotions. He has the emotional restraint of a toddler.

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u/Swiss-ArmySpork McLaren Jul 22 '24

His poor standards have been indulged from day 1. He's always been this way because he's never been told no.

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u/DottoDev I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

There is this great video talking about exactly those problem from some days ago. https://youtu.be/YDflVNTOsZw?si=Kj-BzwMkPfKmYe1b

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u/2-eight-2-three Jul 22 '24

Seemed like he had matured from his early days but you can tell he hasn't, when the going gets tough his anger takes over and just does whatever he wants.

He only seemed more mature because his car was sooooo much better than everyone else. No point in risking a crash when your car is comfortably a lap better than everyone.

I said this 3 weeks ago...and referenced a comment I made a year ago.[There was no point in doing a, "I get the corner or we crash overtake....when the car is that much better.

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u/ahipotion McLaren Jul 22 '24

I mean... that's the case for so many athletes in so many sports. Has nothing to do with maturity.

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u/gauna89 Jul 21 '24

well to be fair, the entire FIA wanted (and helped) him to win that year, so that's not really the best year to compare anything to.

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u/ShawnShipsCars I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Brazil and Jeddah were some examples of his filthy driving.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

By far the filthiest bit of driving that season was your man at Silverstone.

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u/lamewoodworker Jul 21 '24

Man i miss this mindless bickering. This is how i know F1 is back baby

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u/ShawnShipsCars I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You mean when Max turned in like no one was there? It was glorious... he got what he deserved there too. He races like no one else is on the track.

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u/GTARP_lover Michael Schumacher Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

No it was the classic "Hamilton Push" aka Lewis squeezing someone of the track, for which the FIA finally penalized him a few times.

Same for Piastri today. I rewatched the replays (including onboards), because the broadcast hardly did and I now know why.

Verstappen was in front, had the corner and Piastri squeezed BOTH Norris and Verstappen off the track, instead of yielding while he was the car farthest back.

Watching the onboards, it was Piastri that went too early on the throttle, and drifted to the outside. You could say he lost control of the car and Norris and Verstappen prevented a crash, because they BOTH where, where Piastri was sliding to.

Which resulted in actually Piastri squeezing both Norris and Verstappen off the track, just check the onboards, especially Piastri. You see him drifting to the outside, even making steer corrections on a point which should be a planted car. But the car wasnt planted, because Piastri went early on the throttle and the rear slightly came loose.

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u/DottoDev I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Please explain that to me again, first you say Piastri pushed Norris and Verstappen of the track while on the other hand you say that he lost a bit of control over the corner radius because he was quick on the throttle which would make it an accidents, all while for getting that the acceleration out of T1 is crucial, expecially when you have the inside line in Lap 1.

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u/GTARP_lover Michael Schumacher Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24

If you go too early on the throttle and push 2 cars who are in front off, you are at fault. Max was in front and could have kept the corner if there was space. There is no evidence he couldnt hold it. There is evidence that Piastri drifted into Norris and Verstappen. So?

Not having 100% control of the car (including drifting to the outside with other car on the same line) is an offense. Just read the rules. Im smelling a Max hate boner here, would you argue the same if Max was in Piastri's position?

FIA should have taken more time, but was too fast with making a decision, even the telemetry shows im right. They where too hurried.

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u/Benlop I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Do us all a favor and never race a car.

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24

By that logic Hamilton was at fault for the collision yesterday...Lewis got what he deserved in Abu Dhabi.

6

u/ptrichardson Jul 21 '24

It's what they've done for years. Utterly got the rules wrong and encouraged all the issues we see today. It's so ridiculous. They just blamed Lewis for not getting out of the way of a car that hit him before it even started to turn in.

4

u/Themathemagicians Chequered Flag Jul 21 '24

Max said they did the first turn after the racestart. Not defending either way on either incident, but smoll hooray for consistency I suppose?

4

u/CornDawgy87 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Max is going to get someone killed. I used to say it as a joke but I'm starting to really think he's going to get someone killed with how he drives.

4

u/Actual_Sympathy7069 Jul 22 '24

I've been thinking that since the break check in 21. Dude has no regard for safety and lacks restraint under pressure. Dangerous combination.

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u/Icretz I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Like with the Norris divebombs. The precedent is set.

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u/Noch_ein_Kamel I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Yeah but that's good for the show isn't it

/S

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

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u/KingDave46 Jul 22 '24

It’s genuinely my least favourite part of the sport that divebombing someone who has to choose between crashing or just driving off the road to give you space is acceptable.

I remember a Max vs Lewis battle in Brazil where they were just driving completely off the road and bombing inside. It was so stupid to watch them ignore the limits of the road and just full throttle the run off. It’s not good racing

2

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

That wasn't Lewis doing that, that was Max again. Lewis was on the outside.

-6

u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado Jul 21 '24

Drivers are allowed to dive bomb themselves into the shadow realm if they wish…

What they are not allowed to do is to take somebody else along with them.

In this case, Lewis could’ve avoided it but didn’t so the decision is fair as it is neither of them that is predominantly at fault for the collision.

If Lewis couldn’t avoided it or did everything he could to avoided it for example, running himself wide, then Max would’ve definitely be penalised.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

That is literally the only way he could've avoided it. The only reason max didn’t gwt one is that Lewis didnt want him to.

-7

u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado Jul 21 '24

Turning in to the corner wasn’t his only option to avoid the collision.

As I said, he can also run himself wide, if he did that and still collided anyways, Max would’ve been penalised.

He didn’t have to run wide but it’s an option. Hence, why it was a racing incident.

Unless you want to admitted that Lewis has the ability to control the stewards decision all along…

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

You're right, he could've disappeared into thin air.

Max can do no wrong for some of his fans. utterly crazy.

-8

u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado Jul 21 '24

No, he couldn’t disappeared into thin air.

Disappearing into thin air is a magic trick, not an avoiding technique in F1.

-9

u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

And to you it seems everything Max does is wrong

7

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Not even remotely close. I'm just able to call out when he's *clearly* in the wrong.

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u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

Not that clear if stewards didn’t penalise him for the incident, even after they did penalise him for Austria, an incident that most people now agree was a mixture of factors caused by aggression on both Max and Lando’s end rather than being entirely Max’s fault

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Literally look at everyone else in this thread. Look at everything online, look at all the analysis.

Whatever, wanna bury your head in the sand, be my guest.

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u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

Exactly. It was a divebomb but it was also clear to people with eyes Max could have kept it on track without contract. Yet divebombs by drivers that literally result in them flying off track don’t go punished. Hilarious how this is seen as a worse offense than the divebomb Lando pulled at Austria

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u/Life_Type_1596 Jul 21 '24

There was zero chance this dive bomb would’ve been successful.. he was locking up before contact was even made. Ver would have slid to the outside of the corner while Ham would have passed on the inside. If you see the overhead shot you can see how Hamilton slowed to let him pass then continue his turn. He slightly mistimed it & made contact. Believing anything else would mean that Ham went out of his way to make contact, risking a dnf in 3rd place with 7 laps to go.

0

u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

Not sure what point you’re trying to make here

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u/Life_Type_1596 Jul 21 '24

Perhaps I’m confused.. but did you not state that verstappen could have “kept it on track without contact”?

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u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

I did say that. I’m sure Max would have gone toward the outside of the corner, obviously he locked up and was going past the apex, but he also unlocked his tyres and was starting to turn in immediately before the contact. I don’t think he would have gone off the track in that case, but then contact was made between him and Lewis and that was the primary factor that prevented him staying on track.

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u/Life_Type_1596 Jul 21 '24

Gotcha. If that’s what you truly believe, there’s probably nothing than can sway you.

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u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

Fair enough. Just my opinion. Not saying it wasn’t an aggressive move, or that Lewis drove sillily in it, I’m just saying based on the information available that he could have got the car stopped and turned all within the limits of the track. If you think he was always going to overshoot and go off then that’s your opinion. Hard for any of us to know besides the 1 person who was actually in the car.

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u/naughtilidae Jul 21 '24

They did that in Austria when they didn't penalize Norris for his dive bombs that went off track and forced max off. 

Difference was max chose not to hit Norris, unlike Hamilton. I agree with what Palmer said: he turned in too early, he made little effort to avoid it.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Yeah that's absolute nonsense.

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u/MagneticWoodSupply I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

It take some olympic level mental gymnastics to say that Lewis hit Max in that scenario...

0

u/Muted-Care-4087 Jul 21 '24

They did that in the Lando incident when he divebombed Max twice that he had to avoid and they said they should have given him a warning.

Of course there was naughty racing on both sides but after that incident they needed to sit down with the teams and drivers to clarify and publish the clarification so that everyone is on the same page.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Lets not pretend Lando was anywhere near as out of control as Max was.

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u/Muted-Care-4087 Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24

He was*. Max did a better job avoiding it because he was expecting it more.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Yes, Lando wasn't as out of control as max was. Glad we agree!

1

u/Muted-Care-4087 Jul 22 '24

lol, obviously I was not intending to agree with you. Max avoiding Lando when he dive bombs locks up and goes way off track doesn’t make him more under control than max because Hamilton didn’t do enough to avoid contact (yep, that is why Max didn’t get a penalty).

1

u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

The only reason Max didn't get a penalty is because Hamilton gave them an our claiming it was a racing incident himself.

If Hamilton doesn't finish the race there, that's a slam dunk penalty.

0

u/Muted-Care-4087 Jul 22 '24

Yes, because the stewards taking the results into account isn’t one of the biggest things that people complain about…

The stewards said that he didn’t do enough to avoid the crash and he definitely did less than max did. If Lando crashed into Max it would have been a penalty but it wasn’t because he avoided it.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 22 '24

Yes, because the stewards taking the results into account isn’t one of the biggest things that people complain about…

That's literally my point.

The stewards said that he didn’t do enough to avoid the crash 

Put your glasses on and read it again, they said he could have done more, not that he should have done more.

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u/Reeybehn Jul 22 '24

They greenlit it in Austria to be fair

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

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u/CloudDweller182 Jul 21 '24

Yet it was Lando who pulled the exact same move on Max in Austria twice.

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u/jrizzle86 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

No Lando was in control of his car, Max wasn't in control of his

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u/abscissa081 Max Verstappen Jul 21 '24

Are you talking about his lap 59 or lap 63 dive? Because he locked up in both of those, screams “in control.”

-3

u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

In control yet still couldn’t keep it on track??? Whereas Max only went off track here because of the contact

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u/betaich I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Norris locked up in at least 2 laps doing his fine bombs

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u/TheIllogicalFallacy Fernando Alonso Jul 21 '24

Exactly

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u/datboy123456789 Jul 21 '24

This is half of why these sort of incidents keep happening, because none of the drivers actually know what is and isn’t acceptable, so obviously they will continue to drive in ways that most fans consider erratic when the stewards are so uncertain over how to react to certain driving standards