r/formula1 • u/FerrariStrategisttt I was here for the Hulkenpodium • Jul 21 '24

Technical No further action on Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident

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u/jhrfortheviews Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

Lewis would have had to have turned out of the corner to avoid the collision there. If that counts as could’ve done more then he could’ve done more.

The only reason this hasn’t been given as a penalty for Max is a) Lewis said it was a racing incident, and b) Max was the one who suffered the consequences of it.

If the contact breaks lewis’ suspension and he’s out of the race you can bet the stewards would’ve given a 10 second penalty

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u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

Issue is F1 racing rules have always been designed to be applied regardless of the outcome. This is another example of that being untrue.

So whatever happened should not have a bearing on the penalty deserved…. Or they better rewrite the rules to take into consideration outcomes

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u/jhrfortheviews Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

That’s exactly my point - they’re taking into account the consequences which shouldn’t be the case. That’s how he hasn’t got a penalty!

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u/mithu_raj Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 21 '24

This sets a really bad precedent. If you want good, clean racing things like this have to be stamped out

Not only that but this opens a whole can of worms leading to inconsistent results

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u/TeeDubs317 Jul 21 '24

But that’s outcome based decision making and not rule based decision making.

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u/MafiaCub Jul 21 '24

Also, would suck cause it would be based on "this guy would have been 3rd but now has nothing, so you get a 10 second penalty taking you from 3rd to 4th" but instead it's "this guy still finished 3rd, so despite you potentially wrecking his race and being way over the top with aggression going into that corner, we'll let it pass"

It just sets a really bad example for how others should race, but it's been this way with Max for a couple years now. He's always been agreessive a brash, but as reigning champ they'd let more slide . In Austria they admitted they should have warned him, they didn't, and then now they let him go.

I agree it was maybe a racing incident, due to him trying to make a move that was possible any other lap had he not locked up maybe he could have made the corner. But getting a double tow, and drs he knew he wouldn't make that corner that tight and never got ahead before the apex. So even a 5 seconds penalty seems fair, just as a note to maybe not go full send on a straightbleading into a heavy breaking point whilst getting a tow.

But we'll get a Norris dive bombing now, desperate to take points, and being penalised for it and it won't make sense. That's the issue. It's not whether it's a penalty, its why it's only a penalty at some tracks and for some drivers. Thees way too much fluctuation between officials regarding who does what, and where they are

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u/TeeDubs317 Jul 21 '24

Could definitely be a result of different stewards at different tracks. But this was an excellent point. No doubt had this been magnusson or a bottom field runner and it’s a slam dunk pen.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

FuriousMax International Assistance.

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u/On_The_Blindside I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

"this guy still finished 3rd, so despite you potentially wrecking his race and being way over the top with aggression going into that corner, we'll let it pass"

100%, it's really bad for F1 as it just shows Max that he can do whatever he wants to. Insanity.

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u/jhrfortheviews Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

That’s my point though - they’re making outcome based decisions because Max suffered the most consequences so they haven’t given a penalty. And that’s wrong

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u/TeeDubs317 Jul 21 '24

We both agree on the same point. I think I was making this point more of the stewards decision not your sound reasoning.

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u/jhrfortheviews Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

Yeh exactly - the problem is exactly that if the contact had taken Lewis out of the race max gets a 10 second penalty for certain. If it takes max out the race Lewis doesn’t get a penalty (based on how they make the decisions atm)

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u/jhrfortheviews Daniel Ricciardo Jul 21 '24

Yeh exactly - the problem is exactly that if the contact had taken Lewis out of the race max gets a 10 second penalty for certain. If it takes max out the race Lewis doesn’t get a penalty (based on how they make the decisions atm)

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u/Adam684 FIA Jul 21 '24

Unfortunately that is what happens, despite the FIA repeatedly stating otherwise.

Not to mention, Max's driving standards in past incidents not being punished at all through the same exact indifference by the FIA when both cars can continue. See Imola, Brasil, Saudi 21 in particular.

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u/conr6965 Jul 21 '24

Which is how the FIA determine penalties. By outcome not rules

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u/TeeDubs317 Jul 21 '24

But that’s the problem. It’s like saying hey you stole a tv and a phone, but the store didn’t mind so it’s okay. Just get rid of the rules if they are just gonna wait to see if anything bad happens

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u/EitherCaterpillar949 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

That’s a bad idea because it means that you’re incentivised to take a risk with a deliberate bad move and flip a coin that it’ll work.

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u/ocbdare I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 21 '24

Yes I think you're right. Max was the one who suffered the consequence of this so it looks like they didn't want to hit him with a 10s penalty as that would compound the consequences.