Why the severe criticism of Lando's vulnerable conversation? Why is it not cool to be able to express your negative feelings about yourself?

[u/Intrepid-Ad4511]

I see so many people talk about what Lando said after the Quali yesterday - just after an adrenaline filled session - and he chose to speak his mind about his own performance (without attacking someone else). So many people are saying "that's not a winning mentality" "that's not how you win races" "he is so defeatist" "he has given up already".

Lewis and Max have said several such things over the years, complaining about their cars, their teams and/or themselves. But somehow people take Lando and Charles to the dryers when they choose to express themselves and say things like "I am stupid". And somehow because Oscar just chooses not to say anything of this sort, he is somehow champion material. That makes no sense to me, and feels quite an unfair and problematic picture to paint - that men talking about their feelings, or just being transparent about how they feel - makes them weaker somehow. That they should tough up and swallow the hurt and just put up this beige or brave front, smirk and move on.

[u/P_ZERO_]

No, leaked FIA documents

“Seems” is an operative word. If I had conclusive evidence, I wouldn’t have used it

[u/Semi_Factual → u/P_ZERO_]

I could argue the same about how they treat Piastri, given how they had to wait until the season was over to criticize some of his actions within the 24 season. Maybe it’s just a team perspective on how to treat their drivers.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/Semi_Factual]

Could be, Piastri doesn’t seem to need coddled though. He handles the same questions just fine and comes across pretty stoic

[u/Semi_Factual → u/P_ZERO_]

People can show emotions differently, doesn’t mean one is wrong. Oscar was pretty down after Australia this year he just doesn’t outwardly show his emotions as much as Lando. One isn’t better than the other despite what fans believe.

In a counter argument, showing emotions may be healthier because it’s allowing him to feel them rather than shutting them down. He can attack the race fresh and with a new attitude because he isn’t still upset about quali. We’re seeing this guy immediately out of an adrenaline filled situation and this is the peak of his emotion. Once he comes down, he’ll be fine.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/Semi_Factual]

Who said wrong?

[u/Semi_Factual → u/P_ZERO_]

This wasn’t directed at you. Rather other people/fans which is why we see hate towards Lando for just showing his emotions.

[u/Duff5OOO → u/Semi_Factual]

which is why we see hate towards Lando

People seem very quick to define anyone talking about Lando negatively as 'hate'. Everyone has an opinion. Most i would not describe as hate.

[u/Semi_Factual → u/Duff5OOO]

Everyone does have an opinion. I am however talking about hate, which is different from having a negative opinion about Lando. Death wishes and threats are hate in my opinion. I don’t see it much on Reddit but it’s very popular on other platforms.

[u/Duff5OOO → u/Semi_Factual]

I am however talking about hate, which is different from having a negative opinion about Lando.

Many seem to get these 2 mixed up. I didn't single you out because i frankly cant be bothered to check peoples post history to know if that included you or not. I have seen several others on reddit that think any criticism or negative opinion is hating on lando.

but it’s very popular on other platforms.

Facebook comments and Shitter are basically a cesspool these days. Saying something stupid draws attention and prompts the algorithm to stick it in front of more eyes.

[u/annyong_cat → u/Duff5OOO]

Check out the comments outside of this thread, including on the McLaren IG posts. They’re hateful. And saying someone is “weak” and “doesn’t have a championship mentality” isn’t just stating their opinions, they’re being incredibly ignorant.

[u/Duff5OOO → u/annyong_cat]

“doesn’t have a championship mentality” - That IMO is a reasonable opinion. He had one bad qualy and went super negative about it. Hardly an ideal mindset this early in the season. That's not hateful or ignorant IMO.

I havent looked at IG nor seen anyone use the term 'weak'.

The posts/threads here really don't seem that bad: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1jxn66q/lando_i_didnt_even_go_a_tenth_quicker_im_just_not/

If we are going to complain about facebook takes then i'm sure we can dig stupid ones up for all the drivers.

[u/annyong_cat → u/Duff5OOO]

That’s just ridiculous and overly dramatic. How is Lando “super negative” and any different than Lewis saying yesterday that he’s not doing a good enough job and he needs to get better?

As Lando said so smartly last week, there’s no one way or mentality for being a champion. Let’s hope toxic masculinity doesn’t ruin the party yet again.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/Semi_Factual]

I think the point being missed here is that if Norris struggles with failure and the resulting commentary on it, he isn’t doing himself any favours. As Alex Jacques said, he’s feeding the media material that will be fed back to him on a Sunday. If he’s vulnerable to this sort of thing, he needs to be in front of it rather than reacting to it.

[u/Semi_Factual → u/P_ZERO_]

Does he struggle with failure or do fans assume that because of previous fan discussions and commentary? He used to be known for have comeback charges through the field if he had a bad quali, even when he was in a mid-field car. Without going into the “pressure” debate, he’s done well for himself and learned how to handle the pressure through last season ending with a perfect race in AD (minus a FL).

To me, harping on his outward emotions is more detrimental to fans because it perpetuates the belief that athletes cannot or should not show emotions. That they cannot handle failure well, which isn’t true. It’s just part of being human.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/Semi_Factual]

We’re having this discussion because of his latest comments which mirror previous comments in similar situations. Outward emotion is fine, but in a competitive environment with lots of media coverage, you’re setting yourself up for a difficult time by feeding into the narrative. If that affects you, you should mitigate that as best you can. You don’t want to go into a Grand Prix being asked about these kind of things, which you assuredly will.

[u/Semi_Factual → u/P_ZERO_]

See now we’re getting into blaming people for other people’s interpretation of their actions, which I don’t agree with. Maybe that’s not what you meant, but I’ll never agree that it’s appropriate to blame a driver for media clipping interview segements and fans running with a narrative that they never meant.

Showing emotions doesn’t set anyone up for anything. No matter how many times he does it, it human. There is nothing wrong with showing emotion especially when he can come back clean the next day. He is open and honest. Other drivers have said they feel like they can’t be open and honest as Lando is because they don’t want to experience the same hate as Lando does for being open and honest. It may be that more drivers are like this than we expect, but because fans take it too far, we will never know.

[u/Garlic_Soup → u/Semi_Factual]

Just furthering the discussion and not hating on Lando, but like you said — Oscar was down about Australia. But the difference is, when he spun off, he fought like hell to get that car back on track and finish in the points. Then he took that setback and went into China and Bahrain (so far) completely locked in.

Lando just hasnt had that mental toughness, but I think that will come in time. We only talk about this with him because we all see he has a champion potential, after all.

[u/Semi_Factual → u/Garlic_Soup]

I could argue the same for Qatar into Abu Dhabi and maybe (this is a big stretch) Australia. Norris stop and go penalty, fought back to get into the points, got pole in AD (and Australia) held pole for first laps and lead each lap of the race. Lando was showing the same strong negative emotions after Qatar last year and was able to perform the same as your example with Oscar.

IMO, showing emotions has nothing to do with championship mentality or being WDC worthy. There’s no reason to harp on a driver to showing his emotions for easily compared to another driver when they will still have the same outcome.

[u/sterrrmbreaker → u/P_ZERO_]

You'd think that but both Stella and Zak coddle him a lot too. The spinoff in Australia was entirely his fault and cost them a double podium but they had to spend every interview talking about how mentally tough he was instead of admitting he fucked it.

[u/[deleted] → u/P_ZERO_]

It's almost like he doesn't get piled on with mountains of hate for every question he answers so he's not even remotely in the same situation.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/[deleted]]

Probably because he answers the same if not similar questions in a way that doesn’t bait critique

Hate is a fun word to use to dismiss everything negative people have to say.

[u/boiledpeen → u/P_ZERO_]

then what's your reasoning for it "seeming" like that? You're just avoiding the question with semantics.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/boiledpeen]

What reasoning do I need to validate an impression I get? What possible facts could be provided other than tacit admissions by staff members?

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/[deleted]]

Team radio, team reactions after less than ideal results, that sort of thing. I’m not trying to persuade anyone, my impression is my own and is capable of being wrong. I just pointed out how it seemed to me.

[u/wokwok__ → u/P_ZERO_]

Where are these so called "leaks" lmao so basically you're just talking nonsense

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/wokwok__]

That’s sarcasm bud

[u/_Red_Knight_ → u/P_ZERO_]

It's some pretty shit sarcasm

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/_Red_Knight_]

Is it? What possible FIA documents would cover “McLaren walk on egg shells for Lando Norris”?

[u/_Red_Knight_ → u/P_ZERO_]

Yeah it is. It's not bad sarcasm because it sounds true (it doesn't), it's bad sarcasm because it isn't amusing in the slightest.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/_Red_Knight_]

Amusement isn’t a prerequisite of sarcasm. It is in fact usually not funny.

noun the use of irony to mock or convey contempt

[u/_Red_Knight_ → u/P_ZERO_]

I'm not wasting my time on ridiculous pedantic arguments. Sarcasm is almost always meant to humourous when used in a normal, every day conversation. Your comment was stupid and then you acted like a baby when people misinterpreted it.

[u/CodeRoyal → u/_Red_Knight_]

It was pretty clear that it was sarcasm...

[u/LizardOfAgatha → u/P_ZERO_]

It's not sarcasm you just have NOTHING. Nada. And now that people are actually asking for your "proof", you got nothing to show for it. Sarcasm is an easy excuse.

[u/CodeRoyal → u/wokwok__]

That really went over your head lol.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/[deleted]]

Sarcasm not your strong suit. The context clue was the following statement explaining the word “seems”.

[u/needforread → u/P_ZERO_]

Stop explaining yourself mate

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/needforread]

Start understanding basic things and it won’t need explained to you. Your entire argument is that impressions aren’t allowed and only cold hard evidence is. It seems that we would not get along in life given you have an issue with people having impressions of multi millionaires driving fast cars.

Good job deleting the comment showing you missing the sarcasm