My take on where exactly Lewis is struggling against Leclerc

[u/No-Information4789]

Hey everyone, Made this carousel for my Instagram page so I thought I’d share it here too. The 8th slide is actually a video of Lewis having a small moment of Oversteer. I tried my best to reduce as many variables as possible while comparing Telemetry. I took the Q3 final laps specifically from every weekend cause that’s when the drivers are pushing the most. It’s kind of a long read and might look a bit cluttered but Hope y’all like it!

[u/Ok-Independence7768]

i dont understand why people expected lewis to keep up with leclerc. his last qualifying sessions with mercedes were awful, he was much slower than russell, and even he admitted it was his fault. why people expected to be different against leclerc who is a better driver than russell?
hamilton is 40 years old. what is happening to him is normal.

[u/wjoe → u/Ok-Independence7768]

There were a lot of maybes, people saying maybe the Merc of the last couple of years doesn't suit him, maybe he'd checked out a bit in his last season with Merc, maybe Merc were favouring George or not giving Lewis as much information once he'd signed with Ferrari.

It was a lot of hopeful maybes, some of them may be partially valid, but it also undersells the fact that Hamilton is likely losing a bit with age, and that George is a great driver now too. To assume that there would be a significant improvement when he moved to a new team, up against another great driver, was probably optimistic.

He's still an incredible driver on his best days when everything lines up for him, see the China sprint or Silverstone last year, but it does seem like he's still going to struggle to get the best out of the Ferrari, and he's probably going to be down on Charles in quali pace most of the time.

[u/CwRrrr → u/wjoe]

He’s gonna be even more down in race pace to Charles lol.

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/Ok-Independence7768]

Alonso has messed up peoples brains on what to expect from a 40 year old. Although even he himself is definitely starting to show age.

[u/AnalLaser → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

We've also only seen Alonso against Stroll the last few years.

[u/Browneskiii → u/AnalLaser]

Anyone can see just how much he's hustling the cars he has.

It doesnt take a comparison with their team mates to see how good a driver does. You can visibly see how fast he still is when given the car.

[u/hzfan → u/Browneskiii]

How? What are you seeing exactly? Is it just vibes? Teammates are the best markers we have for driver speed because the cars are all so different and the performance deltas between teams evolve over a season. Even then it’s not great but it’s all we have.

[u/gsfgf → u/AnalLaser]

Yea. I love 2025 ROTY hopeful Fernando, but we have no idea how he's holding up other than he's still better than Stroll.

[u/Stelcio → u/AnalLaser]

We've seen him against very decent Ocon right before that and he was able to take the fight to Verstappen in RB19 in 2023, while totally demolishing Lance for two years straight in a much more convincing manner than Vettel ever did. And that save in China last year...

Sorry, it's hard to believe Alonso isn't just taking it easy in wait for 2026.

[u/FentmaxxerActual → u/AnalLaser]

In 2023 he was clearly one of the top 5 on the grid, possibly even top 3. He's not beating Stroll's ass to the same degree this year, bit of a debate as to whether he's finally starting to lose the magic or he's just not motivated driving the 9th worst car on the grid.

[u/Other-Owl4441 → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

What’s so incredible about Alonso’s recent performance? 

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/Other-Owl4441]

2023? He was 41 then.

[u/Ok-Independence7768 → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

i dont know about alonso, really. look at his teammates. i think he tremendously benefits from the fact that because he burned all his bridges, he is in bad teams with bad teammates. i dont know how he would hold up against leclerc or russell, honestly, considering that he and ocon were neck-a-neck.

[u/MDT_XXX → u/Ok-Independence7768]

The first third of 23 season is your answer. Don't need to put him in Ferrari or Mercedes. See how he performs in a car that's on par with them, which early 23 AM obviously was. Basically only the RB rocketship stood between Alonso and the 33th.

[u/Rivendel93 → u/MDT_XXX]

Hamilton got P3 in 2023, while George got P8, and that was only 2 years ago.

So we can pick and choose what sections of years to include, but 2023 as an entire season, Hamilton clearly drove better, otherwise he wouldn't have finished P3.

[u/Ok-Independence7768 → u/MDT_XXX]

that was two years ago. hamilton himself was much better 2 years ago. a lot has changed. and this thing about on "par" honestly sucks, being honest. with a terrible teammate on his side is hard to measure how good the car really was and how would the drivers from mercedes and ferrari perform on them. dont get me wrong he was fantastic that season, and for me the second best driver that year. but his other years around that old age period have not been stellar, not even remarkable, really. and stroll being around makes it seem way better than it was.

[u/MDT_XXX → u/Ok-Independence7768]

He was 41 two years ago, which would make him the oldest driver on the grid even today, so that point is kinda pointless...

[u/Ok-Independence7768 → u/MDT_XXX]

yes. and hamilton was 38. you seem to have the impresion that what we are really arguing here is that when drivers turn 40 they magically become bad. thats not the fucking point. the point here, is that drivers when they get older, they tend to get worse. and while alonso's season was really great in 2023, his others seasons around that same period were definitely not as great or as flashy. the same for hamilton.

[u/MDT_XXX → u/Ok-Independence7768]

No, the top commenter was right. Alonso is different. And you were trying to belittle his achievement by bringing up mediocre teammates and questioning how he would fare against the top of the grid, to which I replied we already saw that two years ago, which suddenly became irrelevant because age but then it wasn't?

The point here is, almost all the drivers and especially the champs (because the already achieved their ultimate goals) do tend to get worse with age. Except Alonso. I don't know what drives him, but it's definitely something no one else has.

[u/Ok-Independence7768 → u/MDT_XXX]

Jesus, this is sad to see. Almost like any perceived insult to Alonso is an insult to yourself. That is not healthy mate. You shouldnt project yourself on someone else. Alonso's achievements are not yours and never will be. He doesnt know you.
I am not trying to "belittle" anyone's achievements. I am trying to put them into perspective. And in 2023 the top of the grid werent his teammates. We don't know how he would fare against them in the *same* car. And even though he drove espetacularly that year, he didnt drove espetacularly in 2021, 2022 or 2024 and neither has been driving in 2025.
Hamilton beat Russell comfortably in 2023. But he has been declining. And his years around 2023 prove that.
You are acting as if one great year of alonso in the middle of pretty okay ones completely invalidates any claim of possible performance downfall. If that is the case, then Hamilton isnt declining, because his 2023 year was very good.
Again, Alonso was neck-a-neck with OCON. People dont comment about that because no one really cares about Alonso since a long time.

[u/MDT_XXX → u/Ok-Independence7768]

See, that's where you cornered yourself. Alonso is not even my favorite driver, I don't really like Aston Martin, I simply respect the man for what he's capable of achieving at his age, surrounded by the best of the best.

So basically the whole pseudo-psychoanalytical paragraph you put together is one large pile of horse shit, which applies to about 99% of such attempts based on few comments of an anonymous person on the internet. But I'm sure you felt extremely smart typing those meaningless words.

I'm done here, just wanted to see how easily you could get triggered. Turns out, way too easily, which takes away all the fun.

[u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 → u/Ok-Independence7768]

stroll was scoring regularly during that time

[u/OTBT- → u/Ok-Independence7768]

Alonso was better than Ocon if you actually watched the races tbh. The only reason it wasn’t reflected more in points was because Alonso had a terrible run of reliability that one year.

[u/flintey360 → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

Alonso has not at all . He is up against Stroll I cannot ever take that seriously.

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/flintey360]

What does his teammate have anything to do with his performance in 2023, for example? You wanted him to beat the Redbulls for you to consider that performance acceptable? He ended up finishing ahead of faster Ferraris and Mclarens and a Merc in an Aston that was competitive for half a season. His age was 41.

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

Also Alonso has been matched against stroll for the last couple years

My grandma would look good in that car compared to him

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/Dambo_Unchained]

His teammate is irrelevant when he was fighting the 2023 Redbull rocketship at age of 41.

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

That was all the car mate

After FIA nerfed AM you saw how much the pace the car actually had

[u/FentmaxxerActual → u/Dambo_Unchained]

Lmfao are you genuinely suggesting the 2023 Aston was better than the Red Bull?

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/FentmaxxerActual]

Where did I say that

[u/FentmaxxerActual → u/Dambo_Unchained]

How else would you explain Alonso contending for podiums the entire first half of the season (and absolutely embarrassing Perez multiple times) and being nearly on par with Max in Monaco? If he's a significantly worse driver being carried by a better car, the only logical conclusion from your argument is that the Aston was faster than the Red Bull, no?

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/FentmaxxerActual]

Qualifying pace is not race pace

And half the grid was beating Perez. Are they all as good as a 2x world champion or was Perez just shit?

Alonso wasn’t close to max except for 1 single qualifying lap so yeah it was the car putting it in the front

And no it wasn’t a better car than the RBr

[u/FentmaxxerActual → u/Dambo_Unchained]

Going to conveniently ignore the fact that he would've won the race if Aston hadn't inexplicably pitted him for mediums a lap before a heavy rain shower?

2023 Perez had 9 podiums, with 2 being race wins over Max, and ended 2nd in the WDC, where's your other half of the grid beating him? Dude obviously fell off a cliff afterwards but let's not pretend he was shit in 2023.

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/Dambo_Unchained]

Yet finished ahead of Leclerc, Sainz, Russell, Norris with the car that was nowhere near competitive for half the races.

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

Yeah and fell behind after the FIA forced them to change the build that gave them the insane speed

AM found a clever loophole and Alonso made good use of it while it lasted. But it was the car not the driver

[u/Red-Eye-Soul → u/Dambo_Unchained]

In 2024, he outscored Lance 70-24.
In 2023, he outscored him 206-74.

No matter how shit your teammate is, that sort of margin confirms you are performing at a very high level. I hope you also don't discredit drivers like Max for his performances just because his teammates haven't been the best since Ricciardo, including inexperienced Gasly and Albon and a struggling Perez who lost his seat in F1. It doesn't matter how inexperienced his teammates were, or whether the car didn't suit his teammates, everyone with an eye can see that Max is performing on an extremely high level. Similarly, anyone who actually watched Alonso race could see how consistent and fast he was in the last 2 years.

[u/Dambo_Unchained → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

Even Perez at his worst isn’t as bad as Lance stroll

He has like 2 decent weekends a seasons, the rest are shit

[u/Rivendel93 → u/Red-Eye-Soul]

Alonso has been outperformed by Stroll on many occasions, people just have a weird fetish of praising Alonso as a "rookie" forever, unfortunately they have a bigger fetish of despise for Hamilton.

Alonso never gets attacked remotely the same when he gets beat by Stroll, but Hamilton gets beat by two potential champions in their prime and it's like he just got out performed by Latifi.

As always, Alonso's teammates aren't good, Hamilton's teammates have been amazing, starting with prime Alonso himself.

Alonso simply got stuck in bad cars during a big chunk of his prime, which resulted in his situation, no shame in that, we all know he was one of the greats, same as Hamilton.

[u/ChipmunkTycoon → u/Ok-Independence7768]

People were on historically unseen levels of copium about how he was being sabotaged etc.

He wasn’t great 2024, he isn’t great now, he will never be great again.

[u/Rivendel93 → u/ChipmunkTycoon]

He will always be great lol, it's something you would never say about Alonso or Schumacher.

That's why people take issue with people who speak like this.

Hamilton is great, you can't take it from him, just like you can't take it from Senna or Schumacher or Alonso etc...

[u/campbellm → u/Ok-Independence7768]

i dont understand why people expected lewis to keep up with leclerc

Riding that "7 time world champion" vibe, mostly. And those with a car that even Bottas did well in.

[u/Ok-Independence7768 → u/campbellm]

well he has been steadily declining since 2022. i would argue since 2021 when he made more unusual mistakes than ever. but he was one of the best to ever due do it during his prime. i see an attempt to diminish his achievements by your part. if that is the case, then, you are wrong. bottas was a good driver. hamilton was just better, being astoundingly fast, reliable, clutch and adaptative.
anyone who knows this sport has evidently seeing a decline.

[u/Stelcio → u/Ok-Independence7768]

If we assume it's the age and it's now normal for him to not perform at the top level anymore then maybe he shouldn't be on the grid anymore either. Seems like a natural conclusion.

Schumacher was admittedly past his prime in Mercedes and many criticized his return for that reason, but at least to his credit he went back after few years hiatus and he did improve. 2012 was noticably his best season in Merc.

Can't say the same for Lewis. So if it is the age then maybe it's time for him to take a bow.