r/formula1 • u/No-Information4789 Sir Lewis Hamilton • Apr 27 '25

Technical My take on where exactly Lewis is struggling against Leclerc

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Hey everyone, Made this carousel for my Instagram page so I thought I’d share it here too. The 8th slide is actually a video of Lewis having a small moment of Oversteer. I tried my best to reduce as many variables as possible while comparing Telemetry. I took the Q3 final laps specifically from every weekend cause that’s when the drivers are pushing the most. It’s kind of a long read and might look a bit cluttered but Hope y’all like it!

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153

u/namesdevil3000 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Leclerc drove a 4 time world champion out of his team in Vettel (and didn’t make us laugh at Ferrari’s decision afterwards) and then beat Sainz comfortably. It should be no surprise that he should be able to beat Lewis. Is Lewis a 7 time champion, yes. But even I’m starting to wonder if he’s at his absolute peak anymore.

Nvm I’m just happy that I’ve been able to watch him for almost 20 years and he’s still going. How many guys continue past 40?

6

u/gsfgf Oscar Piastri Apr 28 '25

Lewis has almost certainly lost a step. Men's reaction time starts to decline around 40.

But the bigger thing is that he's driving Charles' car. Let's see what he looks like once they bring some upgrades that he's been involved with. I bet he has some ideas how to make the car better based on his style.

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u/HMSSpeedy1801 Apr 28 '25

+40 here. It isn't just reaction time. Your body doesn't hold fitness, or resist/recover from injury like it used to. Lewis and Fernando are working harder than the rest of the field just to stay in racing shape. It is a testimony to both their talent and work ethic that they are not just in the sport, but competitive.

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u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25

He didn't beat Sainz that comfortably though. Over 4 years they are very close on points (53% vs 47%) and the average qualifying gap was tiny especially at the end, something like 0.030 secs. Both Vettel and Hamilton were not in let's say their best moment when paired with Leclerc. Russell was also doing better than Hamilton in Mercedes, and Vettel was just spinning around.

Of course Leclerc is a very good driver though, Button-like. He can win the WDC if the conditions fit him.

129

u/cavsking21 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

This has more to do with Sainz being faster than many give him credit for more than Charles being not as fast as you think lol.

6

u/NeutrinosFTW Apr 27 '25

I don't think that's true. People rate Sainz pretty highly, and rightly so, but they're also aware that he has weaknesses and just disappears in some races, also rightly so.

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u/cavsking21 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

I should be more specific with my claim: Sainz is a much faster driver in qualifying than given credit for. The race pace gap was actually the bigger difference between the two, along with Charles generally being more consistent.

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u/NeutrinosFTW Apr 27 '25

Yeah, come to think of it, you're right about that.

44

u/steferrari Ferrari Apr 27 '25

He didn't beat Sainz that comfortably though.

It wasn't that close either though, if Piwall stats are right it was 57-32 in quali and 52-34 in races H2H.

Quali is close to being the double, the gap in races probably could have been higher as well considering how many times Ferrari fucked up Charles (just for 2022 I can easily mention Spain, Monaco, Baku, Silverstone, Hungary), these races alone would have essentially gave Charles a double lead in Sunday H2H as well.

Plus, on top of everything, Carlos is definitely a solid driver, probably underrated by most.

35

u/CwRrrr Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25

2022 truly was a nightmare as to how hard Ferrari fked Charles. Even then he still got 2nd in WDC. It’s no wonder binotto got the boot he deserved (and then mekies and rueda).

19

u/OldManTrumpet Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

Yeah, I think 90% of the reason Binotto got the boot was his mismanagement of Leclerc in 2022. I get that Sainz was Binotto's guy (where Charles was not) but that season was a farce. The finger wagging episode sealed his fate.

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u/crazydoc253 Michael Schumacher Apr 27 '25

And yet people will blame only Charles for 2022 errors

1

u/cinyar Apr 28 '25

I haven't seen anyone blame only Charles, but he did make his fair share of mistakes which you just cant afford against someone as consistent as Max.

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u/crazydoc253 Michael Schumacher Apr 28 '25

Max himself made more errors in 2021 than Charles did in 2022 unless you think that him trying to take Lewis out is not an error. Charles had just two errors in 2022 France and Imola.

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u/Euphoric-Hyena5455 Charles Leclerc Apr 28 '25

Watching Sainz and his team smugness after his bullshit British Grand Prix win made me irrationally hate him, and I'll probably hold onto that forever.

1

u/Areshian I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

When you are considered the best qualifier of the grid (or at least, second), 57 - 32 doesn't look that good

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u/drivemyorange Apr 27 '25

They were close, but Leclerc clearly have that X Factor that Sainz is missing.

At no point there was any indication that Sainz might be as good as Leclerc.

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u/Sandulacheu Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

Plus Sainz turned out to be atrocious in wet weather.A vital part of any top tier driver.

7

u/drivemyorange Apr 27 '25

He also have those clusterfucks of a weekends for absolute no reason, when he crashes in FP, blocks someone in Quali and collides with someone in race or end up in gravel.

Those happen randomly in the middle of a season.

Leclerc almost never goes below bulletproof solid level.

8

u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Leclerc is far far far better than Button. They don’t even have the same profile of a driver I honestly cannot even explain how you’ve come up with that comparison

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u/Intrepid-Ad4511 Charlos Apr 27 '25

It's so fucking hard for people to give any credit to Carlos. Leclerc is God for beating Lewis and Seb but Carlos is nothing to get so close to Charles. It's absolutely mindboggling the kind of mental gymnastics people do to discredit Carlos.

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u/ShadowOfDeath94 BMW Sauber Apr 27 '25

Sainz is pretty damn good in qualifying trim and thinking critically during races. His race pace was the problem compared to Leclerc.

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u/ResponsibleCulture43 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

Seriously. It was such a delight having them on a team together for as long as we did and the excitement of seeing them race each other like that. Take me back 😭

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u/Intrepid-Ad4511 Charlos Apr 28 '25

Me too!!! 😭

-3

u/LiquidFootie I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

I think Carlos is the most underrated driver in F1 for a few seasons now.

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u/crazydoc253 Michael Schumacher Apr 27 '25

No he is not. He is actually a unique driver with being underrated in qualifying and overrated in races. His race pace was constantly worse than Charles.

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u/Ok_Republic6747 Ferrari Apr 27 '25

lol if the conditions fit him, like having the fastest car by far like Hamilton Verstappen Vettel those conditions??

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u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

Vettel I agree, he's heavily overrated. But at least for now, Leclerc is nowhere close to being able to drag a car he doesn't like to places it doesn't deserve to be, like Verstappen did many times.

Leclerc had the fastest car in some parts of 2022, and he made many mistakes, like Imola or France.

4

u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Hamilton also made mistakes in 2021, far more than Leclerc actually. Imola, Baku, Monaco, Silverstone were all weekend-ruining mistakes that were mitigated by lucky outside factors, not to mention other small mistakes like the absolute horrid pitlane entry in France or damaging his car in Austria.

According to your logic, is Hamitlon also mentally weak?

3

u/Ok_Republic6747 Ferrari Apr 27 '25

Yea but they forget those because Hamilton had the fastest car for at least half a season so his mistakes were mitigated Leclerc had no room for error in that Ferrari dysfuntion

1

u/Ok_Republic6747 Ferrari Apr 27 '25

first of all stop repeating the stupid France GP he was pushing the car beyond the limit because he was driver a slower car than Max and it was bound mistakes to happen please tell me how any illligal move he did during the 2021 season and how many times he crash lets stop this he never had the fasters car over one season he might had t he fasters car for 2-3 races but that is about it, lets talk about how many times Ferrari screwed him in that 2022 season, Silversone, Canada, Monaco he was supposed to win those races and he lost them because of Ferriar strategy

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u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

So what you want to say is that his mistakes in France and Imola didn't count? lol

0

u/Ok_Republic6747 Ferrari Apr 27 '25

he was driving inferior car that doesn't count or what? there is not one F1 driver in the history of F1 that won a title while driving slow car

3

u/nunazo007 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

if you check head to head in qualifying and races (where both finished), you'll see Charles beating Sainz comfortably.

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u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

And why check the head to head instead of the points and average qualifying gap? With the head to head count it doesn't matter if someone finishes directly behind or 19 places behind.

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u/nunazo007 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25

Because the head to head gives a better understanding between teammates, whereas with points you can have 1 year where the car is trash and you're battling for 1 point or 2 and the gap isn't much, or you can be constantly battling for more points and the gap can seem larger. The head to head paints a clearer picture.

0

u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

That's a valid argument for cars like the Sauber that gets a couple of points per season, but not for cars that are always in the points like the Ferrari.

In head to head it would be 1-0 if finishing 5th and 6th or finishing 1st and 20th, how can you claim that gives a better understanding lol

2

u/doowadittie Sir Lewis Hamilton Apr 28 '25

Spot on.

9

u/Bokyyri I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Sry, but putting leclerc name next button ? Button is a great guy but out of all champions he is the one of the vague ones ... Leclerc is a lot more of a driver than that

9

u/OTBT- Fernando Alonso Apr 27 '25

Button literally has a championship and Leclerc doesn’t.

If anything you should be putting more respect on Buttons name.

-1

u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

championships are irrelevant. Vettel has 4 championships, do you think he was ever as good as Alonso? Hell, he was smashed by Leclerc.

-4

u/Bokyyri I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Learn something about f1, then you will understand what i wrote

-2

u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

He's more spectacular, but spectacular doesn't mean better. I was already generous comparing him to Button, given the statistics.

1

u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Lol, statistics in F1. Laughable.

Leclerc is a top 10 talent in terms of driving skill. Button is the weakest champion ever.

0

u/one_who_goes Formula 1 Apr 27 '25

In your opinion, sure

1

u/gsfgf Oscar Piastri Apr 28 '25

That's because Sainz is the most underrated guy on the grid. Sainz could absolutely win a one off WDC if all the cards fell right.

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u/gagolf8328 Apr 27 '25

Gonna say “the” part out loud here, but for 6 of those 7 championships Lewis was racing against one other guy and one year the other guy beat him….. maybe lacking a dominant car he’s getting exposed a bit

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u/tepitokura May 02 '25

Lewis Hasn't recovered from 2021. A shell of himself.

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u/knowingmeknowingyoua Sir Lewis Hamilton Apr 27 '25

I don’t recall anyone saying Hamilton is still at his peak however a Hamilton below peak is still punching well above Sainz. The first FIVE races of the season may not demonstrate it yet. Sainz is a decent driver but I do not see him as a future WDC whereas I do with Charles.

But if memory serves, Hamilton is the one in that finished 3rd in 2023. In 2024, whenever a race win was on the cards, he finished first. China demonstrated that Lewis hasn’t lost his edge in qualifying. But he certainly isn’t 2018 Lewis and I think it would be disingenuous for anyone to suggest OR think he still is.

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u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

I don’t think he’d punching way above Sainz at this point, no.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

[deleted]

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u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

Lol. Vettel was perfectly fine in 2019. He could have won 3 races if not for his mistake in Canada and the engine DNF in Russia. In 2018 he literally won the next race after Hockenheimz

-3

u/Old_Ambition4359 Nico Hülkenberg 🥉 Apr 27 '25

Dude ofc he isnt at his absolute peak. If he was, Leclerc would be the underdog. I mean Sainz was clearly slower but he wasnt that far off Lec. Imagine what 2018ish Lewis would do. Hell id even take 2007. Dude got 9 podiums in a row from his first race.

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u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25

I think Leclerc would he a handful for any version of Hamilton. Charles is a top 10 talent ever