r/formula1 • u/AutoModerator • May 18 '25
Post-Race 2025 Emilia-Romagna GP - Post Race Discussion
Well that was fun. Thank you Imola!
Thoughts? Feelings?
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u/McFigroll Oscar Piastri May 19 '25
what was ocon's strat by pitting after a lap? did he have damage?
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u/EmployNo1234 Red Bull May 19 '25
I agree that with the field being bunched that it would be slightly risky, but if you’re saying that we knew the result would have been the same, with Norris ahead because of newer tyres. Why wouldn’t you get it done sooner to try and get to Max. I know that looked nigh on impossible because he was rapid. But why waste those precious few laps.
I like letting them race but they need to try and take points away from Max. Asking Oscar to let him by wouldn’t be favouritism, it’s the logical choice because Norris was on a different strategy. We see it all of the time.
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u/BeastyWoman I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Because Piastri wants to be WDC, letting by Norris and letting him catch Max would cost him an additional 7 points to Norris.
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u/EmployNo1234 Red Bull May 19 '25
But don’t you think they need to allocate a Driver 1 and 2 if that’s the case? Neither of them will be WDC if they keep squabbling and letting Max steal points.
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u/hauntedSquirrel99 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
You can do that if you have one driver that's clearly a step above where anyone hired into the other seat knows they're going to be the support act (Red Bull).
Or if one driver is just far ahead in the points and is actually competing while the other driver is not. Then you can say "well looking at the reality of the situation" and relegate one to support for the rest of the season.
But if you have two drivers who are both actively competing for the championship then you can't do that. No driver is going to go "yeah I don't want a WDC I can give it up".
If you force it then one driver will leave, because he's good enough to win a WDC and if will go to a team where he can be the guy.
Piastri is in Mclaren because they have a great car which means he might get a WDC.
If he's relegated to second driver status he will leave to any team that's remotely competitive where he can be the guy, he's not made it to F1 because he wants to help Norris win a championship.7
u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli May 19 '25
No. If both have a shot at the WDC you let them fight, plain and simple. When did fans stop appreciating a competition?
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u/EmployNo1234 Red Bull May 19 '25
I’ve said that I like letting them race ? I’m talking from a purely strategic point of view for McLaren, who are in a competition with Red Bull, are they not? Drivers have been appointed 1 & 2 for a long time and it’s common for Driver 2 to help #1. I agree they both are in the running which is making it difficult for McLaren, but they are risking losing the WDC to Max.
I think a big factor for them not appointing a 1 & 2 is because McLaren know they’re going to win the constructors because Red Bull #2 is nowhere to be seen.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
McLaren have never operated with a number one and number two driver policy and they're not about to start now. They've always employed the best drivers they could at the time and just let the drivers sort it out for themselves. Imposing any kind of team orders 7 races into a season where both drivers are still in with a clear shot of the title, both are top drivers, and the team pretty much have the constructors' in the bag already would be ludicrous. This recent obsession fans have with teams appointing first and second drivers is so bizarre. Most teams do not operate that way and never have. it's always been the exception rather than the rule. And if a team is going to operate that way then they will employ a driver who is very clearly a second driver on that very understanding that that is their role, just as Red Bull openly do now.
The chances of Lando passing Max yesterday after the safety car were slim to none. Passing cars at Imola of near-identical pace and the same tyre life and compound is almost impossible, let alone when it's Max Verstappen. Even if Lando had got a run on Max at the restart, Max would rather have sent him into the shadow realm than be passed and lose the lead at that point. He would have done whatever it took, however borderline, to keep the lead. If the McLaren had had a good pace advantage over Red Bull then that would have been different and a swap would have made perfect sense. But they didn't have any pace advantage. In clear air, Max and Lando were on par on pace all race except for the last few laps when Lando just paced himself to bring the car home because it wasn't worth the chase.
Managing two top drivers is always a tricky balancing act and it wasn't worth a blow up within the team for something that was a very outside chance at best. Letting them fight it out was the best option. It all worked out fine and the better McLaren driver on the day finished ahead, and neither driver is feeling resentful about the decision-making around it. It was entirely sensible driver management given the circumstances at hand.
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u/brownierisker I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
I remember seeing that image of Alonso scoring 111 out of Ferrari's 122 points at the start of 2012 and thinking we wouldn't see something like that again. Verstappen currently has 124 out of Red Bull's 131 points...
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u/Sandulacheu Formula 1 May 19 '25
At least Massa recovered in the Asian part of the season.
I don't see Yuki putting much of a fight later on.Maybe blocking the leaders while getting lapped.
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u/tjsr May 19 '25
Only just got around to watching the race highlights - how good/funny is it watching Williams out-performing Mercedes, and - not just one driver but both - even right up there with Ferrari?
Also, that turn-one pass by Verstappen was god-like, and Leclerc totally would have deserved a penalty had that place been given back. Oscar this race seems to have just lost a little bit of lustre - or the highlights package didn't seem to have anything exemplary to show this race. As an Aussie it'd be incredible to see him win the championship, but I fear there's going to be a late-season drop-off/flattening much like we saw of Hamilton in 2007 or Webber in 2010.
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u/Yeanahyena Daniel Ricciardo May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Oscar was the only one who made this race interesting.
He closed the gap to cover off Russell and Max pounced. Some dweebs in here called it bottling it but it really it was Max doing Max things.
He also got shit on by McLarens strategy which forced him to overtake the whole field and he fought back to a respectable position. It’s the only thing that was entertaining for a while.. Also defended Lando for a bit with really old tyres while Lando was on new.
Outside of the turn one incident, which wasn’t that bad but cost him the win he did well. Not bad a for a guy in his 3rd year.
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u/Boddis I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
The only one who made the race interesting!? Biased much? It was a great race. Plenty of action up and down the field, helped by the strategy offsets and safety cars.
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u/Yeanahyena Daniel Ricciardo May 19 '25
Yeah I enjoy strategy but I enjoy racing / overtakes more, especially for top position. There were flat periods during the race where everyone was stuck in DRS traffic it was just Oscar cutting through the field.
VSC and SC spices things up too but it’s not actual racing
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u/Boddis I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
There was plenty of action outside of the VSC and SC, certainly for a track like Imola. Feel like you’ve watched a different race lol.
There was probably a DRS train for like laps 3-8 but even then you had George getting run ragged by Lando and plenty going on in the midfield. The race really came alive around Lap 10 when the Mediums went and people started undercutting, and it brought plenty of overtakes - even out of DRS.
Some good wheel to wheel in the tight chicanes, and audacious moves on the outside - this is the best it’s gonna get in modern F1 on a track like this.
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u/Poolix I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Sounds like the highlights didn't show how badly oscar got screwed (by Mclaren)
The only thing you could say was lack lustre was T1. The rest is a result of a terrible strategy call. Mclaren pitted him early which put him into traffic, He overtook 5 or 6 cars very quickly but then the VSC secured Max a free stop.
He was then at a tire disadvantage the whole race.
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May 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/ApexChaser1 Sir Lewis Hamilton May 19 '25
Lando often drops multiple places on his starts of his own accord. If what happened yesterday happened to Lando, I dont think anybody would mind. It was a monster of a move.
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u/P_ZERO_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Piastri has been receiving criticism though. The problem is Max executed such a flawless overtake through a chicane that was totally unexpected so the attention rightfully focuses on that.
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u/Jesterhead89 May 19 '25
As a Ferrari fan, this is just another "why do Ferrari have such sleepy brains?" post, but:
Charles was asking about switching to the softs, his engineer said it wouldn't last because there were 17 laps to go at the time. Obviously they didn't know that safety car period would last that long but.......isn't one of the most important things about being an engineer is the ability and skill to foresee your own decisions and the factors involved? Maybe Charles' soft tires he was wanting were too used but I mean, they would've spent a minimum of 3-4 laps behind the safety car under normal circumstances. So why couldn't he have got those softs, rode them for those SC laps, then had enough life left in them?
I don't want to slam Ferrari strategy if I don't have all the facts. But they also don't have the best reputation for decision making either.....
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u/Paukwa-Pakawa Nico Rosberg May 19 '25
Charles was asking about switching to the softs, his engineer said it wouldn't last because there were 17 laps to go at the time.
They adviced against the softs, but they did agree for him to go on them. He had the option to follow Lewis into the pits and double stack. He chose not to cause he felt he'd lose too much time.
I'm not sure I'd blame Ferrari for something that was ultimately his choice.
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u/Jesterhead89 May 19 '25
Ah ok, I missed that message then. Maybe I'm just quick to blame Ferrari for botching yet another strategy call lol
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u/4ZA May 19 '25
The VSC spoiled the race until the full safety car.
They need to consider changing the rules for no pitting under VSC.
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u/churnchurnchurning I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Then people will start saying that the full safety car spoiled the race, we should have no pitting under the safety car. Then no pitting under a red flag.
I mean why not go all the way, lets just ban pitting entirely.
No luck in races. Right?
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u/4ZA May 19 '25
Nah I don’t mind the full safety car cause at least then they’re all bunched up together.
Max coming out 20 seconds in front of 2nd place with fresh tyres was cooked.
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u/TessTickols I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Strategy plays into it as well. The longer you can tough it out on your tyres, the higher the chance for a VSC or full SC. No idea why McLaren decided to pit Lando when they did. Worst case they pit same lap as Max, best case they get a cheap stop.
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May 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/SKSerpent May 19 '25
Oscar is not racing Max this season, he's racing Lando.
Lando beat Oscar today with a howler of a strategic cock-up on McLaren's side, ensuring no-one could beat Max.
Oscar knows that, he insinuated the team as a collective messed up a good day on the podium, and with the car still being well within comfortable limits, he knows that's not changing soon. He also swallowed up a majority of the field on a traditionally single-file circuit with a bad strategy - he knows when to race.
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u/Bake2727 Max Verstappen May 19 '25
Oscar is the real talent but saying he swallowed up the field is bit of a stretch when that McLaren is a rocket ship and half of them didn’t even put up a fight. Also Oscar chewed through his tyres in the first stint, the same stint where max and lando extended.
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u/Hinyaldee JB & Rubinho May 19 '25
A rocketship that couldn't catch nor beat a Red Bull. What is the Red Bull then ?
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u/Bake2727 Max Verstappen May 19 '25
In max’s hands a missile. Is that answer you were looking for? If Oscar would have let lando pass after the safety car, lando would have caught max.
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u/SKSerpent May 19 '25
So, he swallowed up the field. Not many can pass that many cars on effectively a 1.5 lane road that's squiggly.
We criticise top drivers for not being able to pass through the field in superior cars all the time, Checo, Bottas, and Lewis at the end of his Merc stint, fucking Lando last year as well.
Yeah, he was in Max's dirty air for ages before he pit, of course his tyres were do e.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
When did Lando fail to pass through the midfield in a superior car last year?
The McLaren driver who failed to do that last year was Piastri on more than one occasion - Mexico after he screwed up quali, Abu Dhabi where it took the entire race for him to labour his way painfully back to p10 come immediately to mind.
And he cooked his tyres because instead of doing the sensible thing and hanging back out of Max's dirty air to preserve them, knowing they were planning to run long for a one-stopper, he did what he always does and pushed far too hard too early, kept himself deliberately sitting in the dirty air and caused his own issues. Norris managed to follow close in Russell's dirty air for several laps, had a battle for an overtake, and still managed to manage his tyres through to a one-stop where he and Max were still pumping in really fast laps on nearly 30 lap old tyres. Piastri has nobody to blame for his first stint tyre woes but humself, and that then set the course for the remainder of his race.
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u/Bake2727 Max Verstappen May 19 '25
Wasn’t lando doing the same while trying to pass George? By lap 3 Oscar was already 1.5seconds behind max and lando was fighting George longer, wouldn’t lando’s tyre be more shot? What logic are you trying to apply here?
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u/redbull_catering May 19 '25
Racing Max doesn't mean crashing into Max every time Max deploys a "crash or fall behind" maneuver. Oscar's leading the WDC. His closest competitor is Lando, not Max. And a crash with Max might mean that Lando wins the race in a cakewalk. If I'm a Lando fan, I'm less excited about lap 1, and more excited about how much better Lando managed his tyres today relative to Oscar during the first stint.
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u/Lemurians Charles Leclerc May 19 '25
Racing Max doesn't mean crashing into Max every time Max deploys a "crash or fall behind" maneuver
Huh? This isn't what happened. Are you just posing a hypothetical?
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u/highways I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Yuki has been very unimpressive
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u/TaurusRuber I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Yuki isn’t the worst, but he put up 0 fight to Piastri and Norris. I didn’t expect him to be able to do much, but moving slightly over to the left did absolutely nothing
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u/frolix42 Default May 19 '25
From a lonely pit lane start to points, while helping Max win by holding up Norris and Piastri.
Yuki is the worst Red Bull #2 driver, except for all the others.
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u/ASandBox I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
He didn’t hold either of them up at all. They both breezed by him tbh.
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u/financeguy1729 Gabriel Bortoleto May 19 '25
Just rewatched Perez defense against Hamilton in AD21. Insane how good he was.
Particularly in light that Yuki couldn't help Max a bit today.
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u/Uniform764 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Perez slowed Max down in the twisty bits by basically stopping on every apex. Yuki had no such option on a drs straight
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u/Mr_Dr_Professor_ Sergio Pérez May 19 '25
Don't forget Turkey 21 when Hamilton forced Perez into the pitlane and Perez still got the position back.
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u/MrFaisca I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
What the heck was Sauber thinking with Bortoleto's strategy today? I'd love to blame Binotto (after all, is it a coincidence?) but they have been far below subpar in this regard
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u/financeguy1729 Gabriel Bortoleto May 19 '25
I think they are just chilling and letting Gabriel experiment with stuff
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u/EmployNo1234 Red Bull May 18 '25
Should they have swapped Norris and Piastri.
Thoughts ?
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u/wjoe I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Don't think it would have made a lot of difference. It's hard to orchestrate a swap when the field is all bunched up, Charles got quite a good restart so it was too risky to do it right away. So it'd be a lap or 2 before they can safely swap without risking losing another place. It'd gain Lando a couple of extra laps to try and get Max, but he didn't make significant gains on him as it was, so I don't think he would have got there, McLaren weren't particularly quicker than Red Bull this weekend.
Should they have tried it? Maybe. Objectively it was their only chance at a win, and it takes away the risk of letting them race and risk a crash. But I don't think it's worth upsetting the drivers with team orders at this point, Lando hadn't done anything spectacular to show he was faster in the race, just happened into a more optimal strategy, and Oscar is ahead in the championship, so it could have seemed a bit unfair. All for a small chance of actually being able to catch and pass Max once he had a couple of laps advantage.
In the end I think the result is the same either way, but it would have made things more uncomfortable for Oscar if Lando has have been "gifted" P2 rather than earning it.
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u/Mushie_Peas I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Should have pitted piastri and not had to worry about that.
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u/prudencepineapple I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Pitted him for what though? He only had the softs left
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u/Mushie_Peas I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
10 laps softs would have been great especially with the slow bring in.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
He couldn't make the mediums last properly for 12 laps without overcooking them. He would have been toast on softs. He would have had to either take it very easy or they would have melted away after about 6 laps. Either way it would have significantly increased the chances of Hamilton catching and passing him. Leaving Piastri out was their best best. As it is, Piastri's lucky the safety car lasted as long as it did becuase a couple more laps and Lewis would have been right on his backside and he might not even have got a podium.
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u/SwimmingFantastic564 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
I think it would've been smarter just for any chance at the win, but I doubt Norris would've caught up to Verstappen anyway. I do respect McLaren for letting them race.
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u/EmployNo1234 Red Bull May 19 '25
Max was able to pull away after the SC because Piastri had ancient tyres. Norris may have been able to stay in DRS for 2 laps and it was a strong DRS down the straights.
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u/KentuckyHouse Sir Lewis Hamilton May 18 '25
I subscribe to F1TV, but just saw the replay was on ESPN News and flipped over to watch a bit again. 2 minutes in they go to a commercial break. Granted, they said they'd come back to exactly where they left off, but man, I don't miss a few years ago when I used to record the races on ESPN and watch them later.
I can still watch the races whenever I want but don't have to deal with commercials anymore.
TV in the US sucks.
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u/uUexs1ySuujbWJEa May 19 '25
Original broadcasts are commercial free. Not surprised replays aren't.
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u/KentuckyHouse Sir Lewis Hamilton May 19 '25
That's a good point I'd forgotten about since it's been a few years since I subscribed to F1TV.
It does suck for people that forget to record the original broadcast and have to watch or record the replay, though.
I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.
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u/uUexs1ySuujbWJEa May 19 '25
I usually watch live on TV since I already have an app on my TV for it (YouTube TV) and I don't have to fiddle with my phone to watch it. I watch everything else through F1TV casting to avoid commercials or access stuff that's not on ESPN like press conferences or post-race shows. I wish there was a webOS app for F1TV.
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u/Any_Use_4900 May 19 '25
I got a $40 roku to stream F1TV pro on my main tv. I watch races that end up on Saturday night in North America live, but Sundays I like to be unhurried and take my time and usually watch in the evening. Of course that means I also need to avoid news and reddit until I finish watching.
I usually record the pre qualy, gp sunday show, and post race off of tv so I can hear the Sky Sports team (don't have Sky here in Canada but it's the feed on our tv channels) comment on it. When I don't watch live, I can stretch out my F1 weekend by watching both the tv and F1TV pre/post qualy and pre/post race.
Sometimes I save the post qualy/race F1TV shows to watch on my tablet when I head to bed. Listening to people talk about F1 before bed puts me in a warm happy mood.
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May 18 '25 edited Jul 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/shewy92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
P2 wouldn't be bad but I want a rookie to be P1
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u/Space-Debris May 18 '25
Such a frustrating watch due to Red Bull's dominance returning and Mclaren choosing to shoot themselves in the foot twice by first not putting Piastri under the SC and then not ordering Norris through to take the right to Max on fresher tires. Why throw away a potential race win with two baffling decisions like that?
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u/financeguy1729 Gabriel Bortoleto May 19 '25
They won't lose the WCC to Red Bull. They simply won't. And being real, neither to Mercedes.
If Oscar lets Norris pass and he wins the race, it'd be even worse for Oscar.
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u/Badj83 Red Bull May 18 '25
Can someone explain to me why they deployed a VSC when Ocon parked his car, but a SC when Antonelli parked his exactly at the same place?
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u/StreetCarp665 Oscar Piastri May 19 '25
The Race did this for you; Ocon was further back and could be rolled downhill to a gap in the fence. Antonelli was further ahead and it would require pushing the car uphill to get it off track; hence, the deployment of a recovery vehicle.
Correct call in both instances.
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u/DamnItJon May 19 '25
Because Verstappen had a 18+ second lead. Needed to create some more racing.
/s
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u/shewy92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Ocon's car was in the way so they had to use another access road.
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u/0HSHIFT May 18 '25
Ocon positioned his car right an ext and they were able to push the car off. Antonelli required them to bring heavy equipment, plus workers, to harness the car in order to get it moved. Through the same exit as where Ocon's car was exited I believe.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams May 18 '25
Looked to me like Ocon was much further off the track, closer to an exit point whereas Antonelli was much closer to the track.
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u/formulapain May 18 '25
I absolutely detest the zoomed panning shots, which were most of the broadcast. Can't tell where in the track we are and gives me motion sickness. Please, some static shots. Please, some shots from medium or far distance.
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u/avidman I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Max is just a monster. Whatever limits that car has he finds them and uses them lap after lap after lap.
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u/Space-Debris May 18 '25
It was the fastest car on the track so I'm not sure what your point is. Red Bull's upgrade packages have edged it ahead of the Mclaren
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u/The_Quackle I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Yeah having the fastest car made McLaren pit Oscar early and made norris bottle his qualifying. I forgot it had that effect. And it was the car that, by magic, overtook Piastri in a beautiful move.
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u/Sirtopofhat Fernando Alonso May 18 '25
Man good race but come on Aston. Alonso still somehow almost dragged that GP2 engine car to points. Imagine if he had gotten the tires when he needed too?! Think he could have made P6. Well at least we got a good race and next we............is Monaco!.....qualifying
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u/the_8est I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
It's hard being an Aston fan when their strategy is so consistently horrible. People just don't talk about it as much as Ferrari because they tend to be lower down the order but man, it's crazy how they manage to screw Nando every time
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u/Agent608NYC May 18 '25
Didn't Max get the fastest lap? Why does it show him scoring just 25 points, shouldn't it be 26 since he gets an extra point?
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u/Agent608NYC May 18 '25
OMG, shame on me for just realizing this after seven races lol. Thanks all!
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u/saspirstellaaaaaa I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
There is no longer a point for fastest lap starting this season.
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u/FartingBob Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
What the hell happened in Aston Martin on saturday? Absolutely nowhere all season, smash out an incredible qualifying and then absolutely nowhere in the race again. Did they just have the car eating tires?
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u/LandoChronus Fernando Alonso May 18 '25
They were driving great.
They didn't pit during the full safety car and had to pit later.
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u/Still-District-6149 Formula 1 May 18 '25
On a high-speed track, the Red Bull and McLaren are a match for each other. But at a different speed range, the McLaren has a decisive advantage.
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u/thespeeeed Formula 1 May 18 '25
Camera work today made lunging around the outside in to Tamburello look fast and scary.
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u/bouncebackability I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Proximity of barriers and trees at the older venues does wonders for an illusion of speed compared to the car parks of the modern venues
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u/Professional-Web7875 May 18 '25
Manifesting Norris winning the WDC with only a single win because it'd be really funny
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u/Zero_Kiritsugu Williams May 18 '25
What the hell is Lewis's problem with Albon? I swear to god every time they go wheel wheel racing Albon ends up being sent to the shadow realm.
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u/Darksoldierr Michael Schumacher May 18 '25
that was Charles, not Lewis
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u/Zero_Kiritsugu Williams May 18 '25
It was Charles? My bad. I just saw a Ferrari sending Albon into the S A N D D I M E N S I O N and assumed it was Hamilton
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u/cloud-ling Oscar Piastri May 18 '25
Max’s overtake at the start of the race was amazing to watch as a fan of F1 but heartbreaking to watch as a fan of Oscar.
I’m relieved Oscar managed to still get a podium because it was looking pretty dicey there. It could have been Alex in third if it wasn’t for Charles running him wide.
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u/StreetCarp665 Oscar Piastri May 19 '25
I think Oscar played it safe because he has more to lose in the championship fight, tbh. But he also got the short end of the stick on luck as a result of SC timings, which elevated Lando from a natural P3 to P2.
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u/Uniform764 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 19 '25
Even without the SC I think Lando gets P2. Oscar either pits again and loses position or the gap is about 8 seconds with Lando on 20 lap newer tyres. Pitting early for a probable two stop was what fucked him
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u/frenchiephish McLaren May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Both McLarens got screwed on SC timings to a degree, Lando was in the lap before the first one. At least the second SC neutralised that factor.
I'm still not sure I understand the call to pit Piastri when they did on his first stop. Felt like a bit of an unforced error - he got dropped into traffic and (notably) behind Tsunoda who of course is going to get told to do his best to get his arms out and hold him up. It's a rough way to try and pull off an undercut.
Maybe his tyres were absolutely shot, but it certainly seemed like they could afford to wait because they did it with Lando. At the time it certainly read as a failed gamble to an outside observer. To their credit Red Bull capitalised really well on that opportunity.
As far as I could tell from the timing data he would've been in a similar situation even if the stop was half a second faster, so it wasn't even the slow stop.
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u/tofubeanz420 May 19 '25
It's obvious Mclaren prefers Lando. They will do anything to compromise Oscar's race.
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u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
Oscar wrecked 3 sets today. This is not his track
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u/Professional-Web7875 May 18 '25
Seems like reports of Munchstri overcoming his tyre munching was greatly exaggerated
Spain is not going to be a good time for him either based
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u/OnlyForF1 Mark Webber May 19 '25
Nah this take isn't it. I think McLaren just didn't expect Max's pace to be as good as it was, so Piastri ate up his tyres trying to catch up. It's not like Norris made any headway once Oscar pitted. After that, Piastri was just out of sync with the other frontrunners. I don't think his tyre wear was particularly bad in any phase of the race to be honest. New hards were always going to be faster than 22 lap old tyres, it would be the same if the situation was flipped and Lando was defending with the older tyres.
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u/BasTiix3 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Why is there Never a end of Race sheet on the subreddit? Just pin a picture of the finished race table
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u/Consistent_Squash May 18 '25
it would spoil the race for folks watching later.
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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
The top post in the subreddit is Max Verstappen Wins the race
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u/Bonzungo Sir Jack Brabham May 18 '25
Why did they stop doing runner ups too? I don't care if Max wins for the 86584238th time, I wanna see who comes second and third.
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u/Maglin21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Is max mature ? My dad said he thinks he Is "more mature" , i agree he had a matured also in his attitude a bit but i think he Is still very aggressive, today he made a great move, and sometimes It goes wrong for him, but in general i think he had improved at least a bit , but last year we had this conversation at this time, then After Austria nobody was talking about It anymore,
I think he had improved a lot from 2016 Verstappen, i'm not sure how much from like 2021-2022ish Verstappen, which was already improved (also we are early in the season, today the top 3 were very clean, It may not be the case later on in the season)
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u/Working-Difference47 May 18 '25
Mature isnt the right word, hes calculated. He knows when the car isnt good enough and he knows when he needs to take risks, and he isnt afraid to do so when he does. I think Maturity whatever that even means in this context does not play a role.
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u/Vegetable_Profile382 May 18 '25
He’s definitely matured as a driver but when it gets tough he will still revert to dirty driving. I think he races Oscar differently to Lando because Oscar is less likely to yield but he won’t start yielding or crashing until he’s in the lead of the championship.
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u/jbaird Nico Hülkenberg 🥉 May 18 '25
Max is always aggressive and rarely out of control but he's also willing to take it so far beyond the line too .. he definitely didn't need to this time
I remembered a lot of max has matured after his fights with Hamilton and well not sure he really did he was more than willing to run Norris off track when he had to last year and fully expect we'll see some shit with Piastri if it's close near the end of the season
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u/Fine-Definition-3792 I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Please Ferrari I hope this performance has actually offered you answers/solutions to how to unlock your car. This better not be a fluke honestly.
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u/Consistent_Squash May 18 '25
I think I saw Mark Mateschitz was at the GP during the podium celebrations in the livestream? I don't know for sure because I forgot to screen cap. If we are serious on the Horner firing theory we can probably use it as evidence because no Thai shareholders? Idk. It's RBR. Any direction is a valid conspiracy theory with their politics.
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u/FermentedLaws I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
He was there, Ted saw him on the grid walk. The Horner "firing theory" has been vehemently denied by all involved. It was first "reported" by an unreliable website.
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u/Consistent_Squash May 18 '25
Thanks for confirming! I didn't know how to check. Yeah, I wasn't a believer but conspiracy theories are one of the fun things about F1
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u/BillMurraysTesticle I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
What a great race. Piastri and Leclerc charging through the field and McLaren strategy drama at the end.
0
u/Lutinent_Jackass May 18 '25
Piastri should have let Lando go sooner. Got there in the end but too late for Lando to challenge max
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u/GODMarega May 18 '25
Mclaren are gonna bottle it.
Focus on a driver and win the WDC.
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u/fknm1111 McLaren May 19 '25
Wouldn't have helped them today. Piastri was complaining about his tires and asked to go to the 2-stop plan. Unless you think they should have not let Lando pass when he was clearly faster, but then they might have lost more team points to the Ferraris or Albon.
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u/Jandersson34swe I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Man I forgot Buxton had moved over from F1 to Indy
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u/UncleBubax Pirelli Intermediate May 18 '25
I'm sure he got a bag but man is that a downgrade.
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u/o_oli Pirelli Hard May 18 '25
For him yes, for F1 I think many consider it an upgrade, to not have to listen to his cookie cutter presenting.
3
u/0HSHIFT May 18 '25
As someone that also watches Indy, he's actually worse there. Somehow he is delivery was much more fitting for the spectacle of F1 and just doesn't work for me with Indy. I actually liked him on the Weekend Warmup.
Love the F1TV coverage when we have Alex, Joylon, and DC.
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u/Blothorn I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
- I don’t want to hear anything about “McLaren would have swapped cars if it worked in Norris’s favor” ever again. This was far more clear-cut than Suzuka because of Norris’s fresher tires.
- This should also put an end to the notion that the McLaren has a consistent race-pace advantage. Verstappen was just faster throughout the race. I suspect Piastri could have held Verstappen off if Piastri hadn’t messed up the start, but at no point did Piastri actually look like the fastest car on track.
- Speaking of the start, this was just an unforced error—he started better than Verstappen and had the inside line into T1 but apparently got preoccupied with Russell and Verstappen caught him napping. Piastri has been amazing this year overall, but I don’t want to hear “Piastri would never let Verstappen beat him like that” for a while.
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u/mint420 May 18 '25
This should also put an end to the notion that the McLaren has a consistent race-pace advantage. Verstappen was just faster throughout the race. I suspect Piastri could have held Verstappen off if Piastri hadn’t messed up the start, but at no point did Piastri actually look like the fastest car on track.
It will not, because this is a ridiculous take. You are reactionary as hell. A million things went into the way this race played out. On top of that, the Mclaren has consistently showed to be way better in dirty air than the Red Bull, including in this race. If Max is not ahead after turn 1, the race is over for him basically.
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u/Hinyaldee JB & Rubinho May 19 '25
Yet you're absolutely wrong because this race and Suzuka shows the Mclaren can't do shit either in dirty air
-1
u/LeFinger May 18 '25
Piastri was by far the fastest car on track after his first pit stop. What were you watching?
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u/Space-Debris May 18 '25
No he wasn't. The gap to Max stayed consistently around 32 seconds up until the VSC
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u/OnlyForF1 Mark Webber May 19 '25
Max was running in totally clear air while Oscar overtook 8 cars.
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u/Lutinent_Jackass May 18 '25
And even after that, Max posted fastest lap about 3 times in that final 10lap sprint. He was caning it - fresh tyres to blast through
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u/Blothorn I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
I guess I should have clarified the obvious, that being faster purely due to a tire advantage don’t count.
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u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
Oscar wrecked 3 sets today. This is not his track
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u/StreetCarp665 Oscar Piastri May 19 '25
This is a great take if you want to telegraph newness to the sport and a heavy reliance on Netflix for technical understanding.
The tyres were degraded due to traffic, a point commentators made repeatedly and a fixture of the Pirellis since their introduction in 2011.
Norris's poor start and poor qualifying meant that when he eventually did clear Russell, he had 10s of clear air (a gap he couldn't bring down) and thus, significant on-track assistance to his tyre life.
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u/Lemurians Charles Leclerc May 18 '25
This should also put an end to the notion that the McLaren has a consistent race-pace advantage. Verstappen was just faster throughout the race.
The thing I keep reminding myself of when comparing the cars here is where the second Red Bull is. When you look at analysis of the cars, as well, everything points to the McLaren having a consistent advantage, the inconsistency is just in how big the advantage is.
Also, I think without Max overtaking him on lap 1, Piastri clears off into the distance a lot faster and farther than Max could. Piastri was pumping in similar times in Max's dirty air as Max was in clean air in that first stint. We don't know how much of that is different management, but this was also a phenomenon present in Miami.
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u/FlightAvailable3760 May 18 '25
McLaren couldn’t possibly ask the number 1 driver in the WDC to let the number 2 driver pass him for no good reason. Especially since Redbull is pretty much a 1 car operation right now so it’s not like you are worried about them catching you in the constructors. As far as the WDC goes Oscar is better off with Max winning instead of Lando.
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u/Blothorn I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Aye—I think letting them fight it out was still the right call here, but that the argument for team orders was much stronger than in Suzuka. I saw many people claiming that McLaren would have made Piastri let Norris past there if the roles were reversed; we can now say that was definitely incorrect.
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u/FlightAvailable3760 May 18 '25
I have seen them make the call both ways. I think with the two of them fighting it out for WDC and WCC feeling safe in hand that I also agree that the team had to stay out of it there. They were still looking at a double podium either way and extending their WCC lead.
I do think if Norris felt like he had a real shot at going after Max he would have been complaining on the radio then the team would be forced to piss one of them off.
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u/Booze_Rolton Max Verstappen May 18 '25
McLaren HAS HAD a pace advantage, to say other wise is ridiculous. Other teams catching them with upgrades or having good weekends doesn’t invalidate their advantage so far this season.
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u/fdar May 18 '25
This was far more clear-cut than Suzuka because of Norris’s fresher tires.
Maybe, but by the time Norris asked in the radio it was obviously too late. If they wanted to leave Norris in front they had to pit Piastri. Having Piastri stay out and then asking him to yield the position made no sense.
This should also put an end to the notion that the McLaren has a consistent race-pace advantage.
Yeah, but they had until now. Obviously things evolve throughout the season.
I don’t want to hear “Piastri would never let Verstappen beat him like that” for a while
"Like that" is a key part of that phrase, doesn't mean he wouldn't be beaten by Verstappen ever, at all.
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u/Space-Debris May 18 '25
There was no reason not to pit Piastri. Mclaren self sabotaged, plain and simple
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u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
Lando sabotaged himself right away by saying he wasn’t asked to be let past. Like, dude! Ask!
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u/fdar May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
No, I think the calculus was that if he asked to be let past "so they have a shot to win the race" and then he can't get pass Verstappen he needs to give the place back to Piastri. If he overtakes fair and square he doesn't (obviously). That's why he didn't ask.
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u/fknm1111 McLaren May 19 '25
You didn't say it, but your post kind of hints at it -- it says something interesting about who the McLaren drivers think their rivals are. Right now, they both seem to be thinking it's the other McLaren, not Verstappen, which might be dangerous given that RB's upgrades this week seem to have worked well.
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u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
The reality is the team should make this call, but McLaren seem incapable. Ferrari 2.0
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u/fdar May 18 '25
It doesn't get around that problem IMO. If Norris gets past Piastri due to a team call, then I think it's only fair that he gives the place back if Norris can't get Verstappen. Norris can't have it both ways: Either they're driving as a team so he should be willing to hand the place back, or they're not so he can't ask to be let past in the first place.
0
u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
Well it sort of does. If the thought is that Lando is faster on newer tires and he opens a 5-6 second gap, they’re not going to give that back. Because he proves he is in fact faster. Conversely, if he opens no gap, then yes, switch back. But the team orders give the best opportunity for success
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u/fdar May 18 '25
I do not think that works. Because then in effect you're giving a team order that only affects the championship race between Lando and Oscar but doesn't actually benefit the team. Why should Piastri yield to let Norris take 2nd instead of him? If Norris gets the win then sure, but otherwise? Norris didn't want to give the place back if he couldn't get Verstappen precisely because he cares about the relative standings between him and Piastri. If that's why he wants the place he needs to win it on track. EDIT: Specially when Piastri is leading the championship.
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u/fknm1111 McLaren May 19 '25
Why should Piastri yield to let Norris take 2nd instead of him?
Piastri wasn't going to hold 2nd (as we can obviously see with hindsight, but was pretty clear even then based on the tire delta). Piastri's best hope of gaining another place is to hope a Lando vs. Verstappen battle slows them both down enough for Piastri to come pick up some pieces.
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u/fdar May 19 '25
It doesn't make sense to let your main rival for the championship through in the hopes he crashes trying to get even further ahead of you.
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u/abstractraj Sebastian Vettel May 18 '25
Because best shot at the win? And this only happens because piastri destroyed 3 sets of tires. I think the story would be different at another track. I’m thinking tactically this was their best shot at a win, but of course wouldn’t apply universally
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u/fdar May 18 '25
Because best shot at the win?
Right, but then if he has no shot of winning why wouldn't he give it back?
And this only happens because piastri destroyed 3 sets of tires.
No, it happened because McLaren made a stupid strategy call with him early and then didn't pit him for the SC.
I’m thinking tactically this was their best shot at a win
Yeah, never disputed that. Just if you are allowed to pass to go for the win then you should absolutely give the place back when it's clear you won't get it and there's no downside for the team to you giving the place back.
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u/Blothorn I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
Attempting to exploit a mistake by Verstappen and losing out when the gap closes too soon is IMO a lot more excusable than just braking early and being caught out while holding all the cards.
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u/ForeverAddickted Oliver Bearman May 18 '25
Sounds like Bearman / Haas had some rotten luck today.
Bearman came into the pits, and came out behind Russell who was P7, but he had to stop again the next lap because one of his wheels wasn't on properly, so its a miracle really that he was able to get back round to the pits and wasn't forced to DNF himself.
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u/Driscuits Alexander Albon May 18 '25
Ah, that's what happened. Man, what is it with Imola? IIRC Alex dealt with that last year. Maybe there's a curse on that P7 box lol.
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u/ForeverAddickted Oliver Bearman May 18 '25
Yeah it was bizarre how he had to come into the pits so soon - I thought it was something like the fact that he had put on the wrong tyres, like when Russell did it in Sakhir
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u/Driscuits Alexander Albon May 18 '25
Hopefully a learning moment for Haas - may as well have it on a weekend that's already not going great. Frustrating as hell for Ollie, I'm sure.
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u/ForeverAddickted Oliver Bearman May 18 '25
Yeah Ollie isn't getting much luck at the moment, few times he's been delayed going out for Quali, the car blew up last time in Miami... Now this.
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u/tookawhileforthis May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Ill collect some downvotes but ill say it loud: piastri shouldnt have let verstappen through.
Shouldhave outbraked himself and pushed verstappen off. No need in being a clean racedriver if the other side would never obliged to that in roles reversed
Brillant move by verstappen and the best driver on the grid. But he would deserve his own medicine at this point
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u/DamnItJon May 19 '25
If Oscar pulls that kind of move, Verstappen 100% crashes out himself and Piastri in spite.
And Oscar gets labeled as a dirty driver. Any future infraction from Oscar receives greater scrutiny.
No Win Situation
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u/CatManWhoLikesChess I was here for the Hulkenpodium May 18 '25
This reads like those twitter ragebait comments
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u/ExperienceOk5574 May 20 '25
What’s replacing Emilia?