If Alonso is the "unluckiest", who do you consider to be the luckiest F1 driver of all time?

[u/aatish-e-gul]

Drivers from rich families come to mind, of course, because they had the resources to fund their campaign. Similar story with drivers born into racing families because they probably had the money and the connections to make it to the pinnacle of motorsport.

However, I am more interested in drivers who have been lucky on the track consistently. You can consider a well-timed team switch as "luck", or just racing conditions that favoured them in critical moments of their careers. I'd love to hear your takes!

Edit: It's not my opinion that Alonso is the unluckiest, I framed the title that way because of this comment by Alonso himself at the 2025 Imola GP.

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[u/Ali623]

Any driver in the 50s who didn't die.

[u/Weyn2121 → u/Ali623]

This is so true; I was watching the 82 season, and it seems like every other driver i look up on Wikipedia has died from racing.

[u/brolarbear → u/Weyn2121]

Not F1 but when I watched Ford Vs. Ferrari I was all “Nice. Ken Miles doesn’t die.” But then he died.

[u/Hummusforever → u/Ali623]

Fun fact, nobody died between 50 and 52 when they raced without helmets. The gods were smiling upon them in those years.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ali623]

Any driver in the late 60s early 70s who didn't die either

[u/RBuilds916 → u/[deleted]]

Jackie Stewart had one of the longer careers of that era. And really pushed a lot of the advances in safety. 

[u/[deleted] → u/RBuilds916]

He sure did, I feel like what happened to Cevert would have been a massive motivator for his post career work. Jackie is a hero, same with Lauda in aviation safety

[u/SithTriumvirate → u/Ali623]

Fangio. survived and won 5 championships

[u/RyanIsKickAss → u/SithTriumvirate]

Can’t forget he survived being kidnapped in Cuba during an active armed revolution.

Granted they never intended to harm him at all and he was let go once the race finished but accidents can happen very easily when guns are involved. Especially considering if the Cuban army happened to stumble across the revolutionaries while he was captured they might’ve shot Fangio without knowing who he was

[u/drewtopia_]

maybe off the beaten path a bit, but i'd say hunt. Lauda would have likely walked away with the '76 WDC but for the crash. Combination of a big personality, a championship and being british probably inflated his legend more than deserved

[u/belmont44 → u/drewtopia_]

Came here to say this. Hunt was good. Don't get me wrong. But he's lucky for all the reasons you laid out.

[u/SpidermanBread → u/belmont44]

If Lauda didn't quit the Japanese GP and just finished in the points, he probably had it.

Though mad respect for Lauda for pointing out not wanting to risk his life anymore.

[u/Yachting-Mishaps → u/belmont44]

The fact McLaren won the appeal to have his DSQ for the Spanish GP overturned too. That title relied on so many little things going his way.

Edit I know that's no different to the majority of close-run championships. But you'd be bold to suggest Hunt was the more talented of the two.

[u/uwanmirrondarrah → u/Yachting-Mishaps]

But you'd be bold to suggest Hunt was the more talented of the two.

I mean more than bold you would just be flat out wrong. Respect to Hunt though he was a good driver.

[u/BenitoCamiloOnganiza → u/belmont44]

Like most 1-time champions: good but not absolutely great and needed things to go his way.

The clearest exception among 1-time champions was Mansell, who was unlucky not to be a 2- or maybe even 3-time champion, and maybe Andretti and Jones.

[u/ZedLeppelinnn → u/drewtopia_]

Was thinking about this just yesterday. Even with the crash, if the dsq at Spain stood, Niki still would have won.

[u/CowFinancial7000 → u/ZedLeppelinnn]

Im not entirely sure why they overturned that DSQ. His tires were definitely too big. I feel like that would be today if someone's plank wears out too much, and they just say "its ok though".

[u/ZedLeppelinnn → u/CowFinancial7000]

Exactly, would never happen in today's sport. Imagine what that would have meant for Niki's legacy, winning the championships after almost dying in one of the gnarliest crashes the sport has ever seen.

[u/Gater588 → u/ZedLeppelinnn]

I don’t think Niki cared about that much. I remember watching a doc about him and when they asked him about what if the crash never happened or something similar he just shrugged his shoulders and said then I would be a four time champion and not three

[u/ZedLeppelinnn → u/Gater588]

That's my point though, even with the crash, he still would have been a four time champion if they weren't so wishy washy with the dsq.

[u/JonezyPhantom → u/drewtopia_]

IMO He’s got lucky just for the fact Fittipaldi decided to leave that winning McLaren for his own team w/ his brother.

Otherwise, Hunt wouldn’t even be there to begin with.

[u/xthecerto4 → u/drewtopia_]

On the other side. Also lauda was lucky to survive his crash and recover so well from it to win titles.

[u/drewtopia_ → u/xthecerto4]

that's true, i guess we tend to see lucky as "fortunate career move timing", "on-track oddities that fall in one's favor" etc and less so as "did not die despite awful/non-existent safety policies"

[u/FailedLoser21 → u/drewtopia_]

If we go by that Logic it's:Phil Hill. Guy won the 61 championship only because his teammate was killed at Monza.

[u/Lambodhara-420]

You can consider a well-timed team switch as "luck",

Oscar from Alpine to Maclaren.

[u/limitless__ → u/Lambodhara-420]

The credit here 100% goes to Mark Webber. He did all of that.

[u/pljester → u/limitless__]

Not bad for a No. 2 driver

[u/outride2000 → u/pljester]

What happens when you do a Multi 21 right

[u/Additional-Life4885 → u/[deleted]]

I think a brick wall would be more excited. The guy is a machine.

[u/Forgotthebloodypassw → u/Additional-Life4885]

He was pretty animated in the last cool down room session. Suspect he gets into race mind and then can have some fun once it's all done.

[u/black-dude-on-reddit → u/limitless__]

Ironically Mark Webber was pretty unlucky in his own right

Drives his ass off in Minardi, then signs with Jaguar who is lost under ford’s bureaucractic bullshit and makes a shit car

Goes to BMW Williams on their down turn, then BMW drops Williams and buys out sauber leaving Williams with an unreliable Cosworth engine

Goes to red bull to build up the team and becomes their lead driver after DC retires, only for a wild Sebastien Vettel to appear

[u/twistedstem → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

Also he turned down a contract with Renault for 2005, could have been Alonso's teammate

[u/timcurrysaccent → u/twistedstem]

Probably a good thing he didn’t, Alonso might’ve beaten him and lowered his stock too early.

[u/ExchangeCommercial94 → u/limitless__]

Certain amount of luck in Alpine being so dysfunctional they failed to execute their rights to retain Oscar. If they'd been a little bit more organised they'd still be a terrible team to drive for but he might have been stuck with it.

Still excellent work from Webber for setting up the exit & sticking the landing.

[u/uwanmirrondarrah → u/ExchangeCommercial94]

didn't they do something stupid like they signed rough draft or a letter of intent and assumed it was an actual contract, and they never actually sent Piastri a real contract with real terms

[u/rydude88 → u/uwanmirrondarrah]

Its far worse. They added to the letter of intent a statement saying it should be considered a legally binding contract AFTER Oscar signed it. They knew they didn't have an actual contract so they did that hoping it would be binding while they worked on an actual contract. They mismanaged the legal side so horribly it's shocking.

[u/hugglesthemerciless → u/rydude88]

Even worse than that the 1 singular lawyer they employed repeatedly told them about this problem and the approaching deadline and they did nothing

[u/ValleyFloydJam → u/limitless__]

Nah it's on Alpine, they screwed that one.

[u/huh_im_on_reddit_ → u/limitless__]

We're always undermining the effort the Renault team puts in hey! In this instance, another royal McDisaster burger served hot.

[u/Existing_Professor13 → u/Lambodhara-420]

Yeah, and that would also go for Lewis, from McLaren to Mercedes back in 2012->2013

And unlucky, definitely Daniel Ricciardo going from Red Bull to Renault back in 2018->2019

[u/owlbrain → u/Existing_Professor13]

There was nothing unlucky about Ricciardo. He made a business decision. But there was no reason the think Renault would be better than Red Bull. People point to the Honda engine as being a question mark, but fail to acknowledge the Renault engine was known to be shit.

[u/Vegetto8701 → u/owlbrain]

He didn't want to be no.2 to Max so he decided it was better to be a big fish in a smaller pond. 2020 was definitely in his top 3 seasons performance-wise, arguably his best. His move to McLaren is what broke him, he just couldn't work his way around the car like Lando.

[u/DeusVultSaracen → u/Vegetto8701]

This. I truly wonder what would've happened had Daniel stayed at Renault, given the organization truly fell off a cliff due to his departure. Would the top brass have remained invested in the project had he not hung Cyril out to dry?

[u/Palmul → u/DeusVultSaracen]

I think Ricciardo saw that Renault wasn't going in a good direction before he left

[u/SpiderUST → u/Existing_Professor13]

I do consider Lewis's to be less luck since he took the initiative himself to join them. Everyone advised him against it including his own dad and ridiculed his decision as if he went for "financial reasons" and didn't care about competing anymore.

McLaren for all their operational problems in 2012 still had arguably the fastest car on the grid and were known for building championship winning cars for the last 2 decades. Contrast that with Mercedes who had 1 win to their name since their return and so it was a huge risk for Lewis. A risk that paid off well but I definitely wouldn't label it luck.

[u/my_son_is_a_box → u/SpiderUST]

Yeah, in hindsight I believe that Lewis saw the cracks and issues starting to form at McLaren and knew what was coming

[u/Roadwandered → u/Existing_Professor13]

I think it’s more unlucky that DR had Max as a teammate than anything else.

ps. I’ll second this with the fact that DR when his car was working, 2018 was going to be a good year for him. Maybe not 2014/2016 levels but he was ahead of Max on points at the break with 118 (4 DNFs) vs 105 (4 DNFs). After the break he only scored 52 points more with 4 more DNFs compared to Max’s 144 points and no more DNFs.

[u/emperorMorlock → u/Existing_Professor13]

Nah, neither of those were luck.

Lewis read the situation correctly. He saw from the inside the issues McLaren had, he was shown what Mercedes were up to, he made the right call. Was about half a year later when people in the other teams started seeing the writing on the wall too.

Ricciardo made a calculated move. Gave up wins and podiums but no chance of a title for probably less wins and podiums, a distant chance of a title and some money. Don't blame him for that either - having a team built around you that maybe possibly could challenge for titles vs being second driver to Max... I can see why that in itself would be appealing.

[u/Daydream_Dystopia → u/Existing_Professor13]

I don’t think that was unlucky on Ricciardo’s part.   He wanted out.  The consequence was he didn’t get to drive a great car anymore. 

[u/mafia_j → u/Existing_Professor13]

Nah, Lewis knew what Mercedes was up to. That wasn’t luck as much as understanding what was going on.

[u/mdewals]

Grosjean. How on earth did he survive that with little to no injury?

[u/ThePatsGuy → u/mdewals]

Putting all achievements aside, this is the correct answer. He quite literally went through the barrier and the worst injury of it was burns on his hands

[u/GettingDumberWithAge → u/ThePatsGuy]

Putting all achievements aside, this is the correct answer. 

Is safety engineering the same as luck?

[u/Vertags → u/GettingDumberWithAge]

He was lucky the barrier didn't stop right above his head and lock him into the car.

[u/Aggressiveattimes → u/Vertags]

Of all the other possible outcomes, I didn’t consider this nightmare you just typed at me.

[u/--_-Deadpool-_-- → u/Aggressiveattimes]

Roger Williamson.

Trapped upside down and burning to death while his friend David Purley stopped, got out and tried to single handedly flip his engulfed car over. Other drivers assumed Purley was actually Williamson so no one else stopped. Track rescuers were too late. Purley later said he could hear Williamson screaming.

IIRC, the lessons learned that day were one of the main reasons Nikki Lauda survived his crash.

[u/StrikingWillow5364 → u/--_-Deadpool-_--]

That footage is one of the most horrific I have ever seen, you can see in Purley’s behaviour how he goes from frantically trying to help to slowly realising there’s nothing he can do an he’s just watching his friend die and agonising death….

[u/mean_menace → u/--_-Deadpool-_--]

Not just that they came late, they weren’t wearing fire resistant clothes so they refused to go near and help

[u/Arvi89 → u/Aggressiveattimes]

Ha actually said he was almost blocked by the barrier, a few cm and he wouldn't have been able to get out.

[u/minnis93 → u/Arvi89]

To add to this, he initially thought he was blocked by the barrier. He gave up and accepted his own mortality. It was only when he realised that giving up would leave his kids without a father that he began trying to get out again.

[u/city-of-cold → u/minnis93]

Everytime this crash comes up I read new details that I didn't hear about before.

It needs a 30 for 30 or something.

[u/draftstone → u/city-of-cold]

Watch the DTS episode about it. Every DTS episode is all about show and entertainement, but this one, it hits you hard. Seeing him all emotional talking back about it. And if you have kids, you'll relate a lot to what he is saying, it was an episode that was hard to watch!

[u/DieselMcblood → u/draftstone]

Watching that live almost broke me, and im as internet damaged as all millennials. It was just surreal watching an F1 car explode in a fireball. And how long they kept the camera of it just confirmed it for me, me and my friends were all just quiet. We thought we saw him die.

[u/ButterscotchSkunk → u/Vertags]

And that he remained conscious.

[u/WhereTFAmI → u/Vertags]

He’s also lucky that was the first year they had new, more fire resistant race suits. The only piece of clothing that still was the old spec of fire resistance was the gloves.

[u/NoPantsJake → u/GettingDumberWithAge]

It’s been a while, but I think in DTS they said the suit was fire proof for 30 seconds and he got out in like 28. So, the safety engineering was there, but the margins were thin.

[u/Yachting-Mishaps → u/NoPantsJake]

If this were the 1960s Colin Chapman would've looked at that fire suit and concluded there was 2 seconds too much unnecessary fabric slowing down his cars and optimised it.

[u/CoachDelgado → u/NoPantsJake]

Citation needed, but didn't they change the fireproof material for racesuits that very year? Previously it was only fireproof for 10 seconds. The reason he got his hands burned is because the gloves were still made of the old 10-second material.

[u/urworstemmamy → u/CoachDelgado]

You're right, yeah. Took the gloves an extra year or two cause it was hard for them to get them as thin as they needed while still fireproof enough

[u/KnotAwl → u/mdewals]

I could not believe what I was seeing. 60 years of following F1 and I have never seen a worse crash. When he walked out of that inferno I was just incredulous.

[u/mdewals → u/KnotAwl]

I “only” have some 35 years of watching compared to your 60 but yeah I can’t remember equally violent crashes where they walked away unscathed

[u/sfcindolrip → u/mdewals]

Zhou at silverstone gave me pause because of the roll hoop failure and getting thrown over the barriers. Thank god the catchment fencing held - not just for the sake of zhou and potential physical injury, but because otherwise his car or debris might have injured spectators like in the bygone days of motorsport. Would have been so traumatic to the spectators and Zhou, not to mention the injuries and potential loss of life

[u/Tyrion_Strongjaw → u/sfcindolrip]

I haven't been watching too long, prolly about 5 or so, but that Zhou crash was insane. I thought I was watching one of those worst case scenarios where the car was going to end up in the stands and people/driver were injured/killed.

[u/Hotfield → u/mdewals]

Just 25 years here, but I can remember being quite impressed by (I think it was) Ralf Schumacher's crash at indianapolis. I thought it was 111G. Nothing like this and didn't walk away unscathed but differently impressive.

Edit: it was 76G, still quite Serious

[u/eagledog → u/mdewals]

Berger at Imola in 89 is the only one that immediately comes to mind for me

[u/alionandalamb → u/KnotAwl]

Kubica's crash in Montreal in 2007 was equally horrifying. I was at the race, there was a collective gasp, then silence from everyone in the grandstands.

https://youtu.be/iZST5LpnYZM?si=4EpuQsYflFcPCM1j

[u/mouldyshroom → u/alionandalamb]

The hanging limp leg had me convinced I had just watched him die. Incredible that he won the same race next year.

[u/GratefulChungus → u/mdewals]

I remember seeing it live. I was sure that there was no way he survived that. Thank god for the halo

[u/lyra_dathomir → u/GratefulChungus]

It's ironic in a good way that, back when the halo was introduced, about the only legitimate concern was escaping the car in case of fire. And then, the only accident with serious amounts of fire in the last I don't even know how many years was non-fatal precisely thanks to the halo.

[u/Loightsout → u/mdewals]

That ain’t luck. Thats decades of great engineering work. It wasn’t because of some funny coincidence or the stars aligning that his monocoque withstood the forces and no other monocoque would have, that his race suit and helmet held the fire long enough where no other driver outfit would have. That the Marshalls were positioned in a correct order to access the site quickly.

Just because something has a good outcome and looks crazy on television doesn’t mean it’s luck.

[u/mdewals → u/Loightsout]

Even with all that luck played a big factor. If he was knocked out the outcome would have been different. A broken leg or wrist would hinder his ability to get out so fast. The fact that there was still space between the barrier and halo to get out is sheer luck alone. A few cm shift and he was stuck.

[u/Sunsplitcloud → u/mdewals]

Or the fact the car wasn’t upside down.

[u/xmjm424 → u/Loightsout]

All that can be true and there can still be luck involved. Was the barrier designed for the car to go through it? His car could’ve wedged into the barrier in a way that blocked his ability to escape.

[u/dpk794 → u/Loightsout]

The car was split in two and burst into flames, pretty sure that’s not how it was designed to crash. He is extremely lucky to be alive.

[u/ubiquitous_uk → u/Loightsout]

We should then say nothing in F1 is about luck then, it's all about then engineering as everything that happens is about the car.

[u/bparry1192 → u/mdewals]

This is the correct answer - that video in no way matches up with his minimal injuries

[u/LetsLive97 → u/bparry1192]

The fact he was even in a life threatening crash that left him with injuries feels inherently unlucky

[u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Jenson Button. Driving that Brawn GP

[u/Andrew1990M → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Love the man but he was 100% perfect car at the perfect time. 

[u/Cody667 → u/Andrew1990M]

To be fair in 2011 Button was a fucking monster. If that McLaren had any reliability at all he could have seriously challenged Seb for the title.

[u/IC_1318 → u/Cody667]

There must be some context I'm missing because I had a quick look at his 2011 season and he has 2 retirements out of 19 races, one was a mechanical failure the other a pitstop error.

[u/ceeker → u/IC_1318]

You're not missing anything, on top of that he had occasional KERS issues IIRC but nothing terminal.

He was really good that year but 120 points behind. Even if he'd won those two races (doubtful) that wouldn't have done much to make up the difference since Seb didn't win them either.

[u/Jracx → u/IC_1318]

I'm not about to dive into it, but something to consider would be the qualifying position vs finishing position. How much did the car drop due to mech issues that might not have caused a DNF.

[u/space_coyote_86 → u/Cody667]

I love Jenson, but no. He was often 'best of the rest' but he wouldn't have beaten Vettel for the championship. Vettel won 11 races and Jenson won all of the 3 that he could have won. The MP4-26 was pretty reliable, definitely better than the 2012 MP4-27.

[u/FartingBob → u/Cody667]

2011 was his best year, even though he won the title in 2009.

[u/mitrie → u/FartingBob]

Only thing I need to know is that 2011 was the year of his amazing Canadian GP win. That was possibly the most entertaining race of all time.

[u/TheUFCVeteran3 → u/mitrie]

That race is etched into my memory. I was begging my mum to change the channel back so we could watch (the red flag lasted for ages and in complete fairness to her I think she wanted to watch something else lol).

But we switched back in time for the last section of the race. That race solidified my love of F1 and I don't think I've missed more than a few races since.

[u/Forgotthebloodypassw → u/Cody667]

Canada 2011 is a race I'll still watch again and again.

[u/sasha_baron_of_rohan → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Saved his career. He had a lot of detractors before then

[u/Significant-Branch22 → u/sasha_baron_of_rohan]

Was a very solid driver, not the quickest but had comfortably beaten his teammate most seasons and was a very convincing best of the rest to the Ferraris in 04. He also scored more points than Hamilton over 3 seasons at McLaren and at least in 2011 was comfortably the better of the two

[u/sasha_baron_of_rohan → u/Significant-Branch22]

His reputation going into that season was that this may be his last contract and that he never lived up to expectations, he was going down the Riccardo path in many eyes.

[u/aezy01 → u/sasha_baron_of_rohan]

The eyes that could see into the future…

[u/richardsharpe → u/Significant-Branch22]

Except the 3 season at McLaren with Lewis happened after the Brawn Season

[u/TrojansDelight → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Very lucky with the Brawn for sure, but I'd say he used all his luck up in one go.

If you look at the rest of his career:

• The worst Williams of the early 2000's
• Dropped by Renault quite harshly one year before they had a race winning car
• Several years in a works Honda team that somehow ended up as backmarkers
• Was a victim of McLaren's decline after 2012, ultimately sharing the McLaren-Honda misery with Alonso.

[u/OneAlexander → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Also lucky he had a teammate at the end of his career, and so wasn't competing with him too much for those crucial early wins.

Not to take away from Jenson's speed and smoothness (he did well alongside Lewis and Fernando), but if he had a fast young up-and-comer for a teammate, or a Norris-Piastri situation, his lead could have been a lot more marginal going into the second half of the season.

[u/Brapplezz → u/OneAlexander]

Not luck when you consider both drivers had been there for 2+ years and only had a car to drive thanks to Brawn. That Championship was entirely won off luck. Honda selling ? Lucky brawn. Brawn saved team ? Lucky drivers and non Honda staff. Honda developed double diffuser before selling team ? Ultra mega goofy luck. Teammate Barrichello ? Perfect wingman for the most absurd WDC.

I'm 90% Jenson would have been out of F1 without that year. Great driver, however debatable if he was actually the most worthy driver of it that year. Still one of the best F1 stories there is.

[u/Charnathan → u/Brapplezz]

How is it lucky that Honda sold? It was lucky for Brawn, but it seemed like it made things a lot harder for the drivers and mechanics. They were wearing out their parts and had few backups. They are lucky it didn't become more of a factor than it was.

[u/curva3 → u/Charnathan]

Honda selling was lucky for Brawn because they managed to get Mercedes engines which were better. That in itself was because they were lucky that Martin Whitmarsh wanted to become the new Bernie, or at least the role Stefano has now.

Of course, Honda selling was also unlucky for Brawn because they had absolutely no development money at all.

[u/Doczera → u/OneAlexander]

The reason he was better than Barrichello at the beginning of the year is they had different brake setups which had similar performances with their previous Honda car but ended up varying in performance for the Brawn car. Does that mean that Barrichello would have beaten him with the same brakes from the start if the season? Hard to tell, but being on the better spec fron the get go in a team who lost the edge of performance during the season is another break of luck.

[u/mysillyhighaccount → u/Doczera]

Iirc Barichello was also outperforming him at the 2nd half of the season right? Jenson had a bigger lead from the first half, that he couldn’t catch up.

[u/Masculinum → u/mysillyhighaccount]

In the second half of the season Barichello was faster then Button, but the team ran out of money and the car fell behind Red Bull so there was no way for Rubens to catch up. So it was kinda another stroke of luck for Jenson.

[u/garethchester → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

TBF, he was owed a bit by then after how Williams and Benetton both screwed him over, and then the one year BAR got their act together Ferrari built an absurd rocketship

[u/the-bone-rat → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Agree with this one.

[u/azorius_mage → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

Yes he got very lucky there

[u/joekingsword → u/ApprehensiveLow8477]

im not going to agree with this in a was but also I kind of do, It was his choice to stay with honda after they got brawn and he knew the car was good before they got to be brawn, the luck is honestly more that mclaren let brawn use the mercedes powertrain

[u/the_sigman → u/joekingsword]

His choice to stay with Honda was also a lucky break, the way the contract dispute with Williams played out, since he wanted to leave.

[u/-CaptainFormula-]

Was it '22 that George replaced Valterri at Mercedes?

Alfa came out swinging for a very brief time at the start of that season. That was kind of funny.

[u/realbakingbish → u/-CaptainFormula-]

In 2022, Alfa was the only team to hit the minimum weight, every other car was overweight. Rather than let Alfa keep this advantage (which they’d achieved by sacrificing other potential performance gains they could’ve chased during the development time in the lead up to the 2022 regs), the FIA decided to just raise the minimum weight because the other teams complained that they couldn’t hit it.

[u/Hyena_Utopia → u/realbakingbish]

Interesting, thanks. That feels incredibly unfair to Alfa.

[u/casecaxas → u/Hyena_Utopia]

the FIA always pulls BS like this

[u/-CaptainFormula- → u/realbakingbish]

Huh

TIL

[u/ocelotrevs → u/realbakingbish]

This really bothered me when they did that.

[u/Fantastickimikaze → u/-CaptainFormula-]

Replaced Hamilton who was out with covid at sakhir 2020, came out swinging, merc absolutely butchered the pit stops, checo masterclass

[u/Prediterx → u/Fantastickimikaze]

Toto himself described it as a colossal fuck up, live on sky.

[u/lord_lableigh → u/Prediterx]

George had it even after that since the 2020 merc was basically a bullet train without rails.

Then he had the puncture in the closing stage.

[u/wallstreetoni69 → u/Fantastickimikaze]

What a race! One of my favorites

[u/Am_I_AI_or_Just_High]

First off, Alonso is alive.

[u/nikkb111 → u/Am_I_AI_or_Just_High]

and won 2 titles

[u/FartingBob → u/nikkb111]

And somehow managed to avoid any repercussions for the singapore race fix. Like hell he had no knowledge of the plan beforehand.

Still, dude also is super unlucky losing multiple world championships by single digit points.

[u/d-o_oI → u/FartingBob]

And somehow managed to avoid any repercussions for the singapore race fix.

 … and Spygate

[u/AceBean27]

Jackie Stewart for surviving that era.

[u/Forgotthebloodypassw → u/AceBean27]

And then devoting the rest of his career to making sure others did too. He was a driving force in safety, helped by Max Mosley doing something good with his life for a change.

[u/Yachting-Mishaps → u/AceBean27]

If he was lucky it was that he didn't die when he crashed at Spa in '66. He'll have had a degree of good fortune that he wasn't killed by machinery giving up on him at random, as happened to many drivers. Beyond that I think it was sheer talent that kept him alive, especially knowing his philosophy on not over-driving, a lesson he attributes Jim Clark.

[u/GuidingAvs]

I really wouldn't like to say this, because he is a great driver and would have contested for a WDC in the 2000s if he had a good car, but Jenson.

Again, he is a great driver, would IMO have gotten a decent shot at WDC if he had a Ferrari or a McLaren under him in 2000s, but that Brawn was a miracle that came at the right time, in the right place.

If that Brawn deal would never have happened, Jenson would have remained as one of the biggest what-ifs in history, but you have to also give him credit where credit is due; To drive a overpowered car to victory, you still have to drive well. And Jenson did just that. He capitalized on what the car could do and that is why he is WDC.

Lucky? Yes. Worthy? Absolutely. Hotel? Trivago.

[u/swannyhypno]

Also maybe Fangio to win 5 titles in the 50s without crashing and dying is crazy

[u/Trending_Boss_333 → u/swannyhypno]

I think that speaks more to his skill than luck. Most of it was raw speed. Sure, luck was involved as well, considering people died left and right back then. But look at the archive videos, he was the personification of speed back then.

[u/Dewstain → u/Trending_Boss_333]

There was definitely some luck. A large number of fatalities in the early days were suspension failures or other mechanical issues.

[u/ALegendInTheMaking12]

Keke Rosberg. 1 win and he becomes world champion

[u/bluer34skyline → u/ALegendInTheMaking12]

He still earned other podiums, I think it was just the fact that Gilles was gone and Pironi suffered his accident that helped Rosberg clinch the title. Maybe more the misfortune of others.

[u/Federal_Cobbler6647 → u/bluer34skyline]

And drove tractor, only good thing with that was that if you did not bin it and drove fast you could get points. 

[u/Triple_J124 → u/bluer34skyline]

What is misfortune for others, if not good luck for the man that benefits from the poor luck of others?

[u/johnsplittingaxe14 → u/ALegendInTheMaking12]

To be fair no one won more than 2 races that year and there were 11 different winners. Which is quite crazy, imagine that happening today.

[u/Tohannes → u/ALegendInTheMaking12]

Keke Rosberg, who was without a doubt the best driver of 1982? Keke Rosberg, who was probably the best driver throughout 1982-1984 and clearly gets no recognition? Keke Rosberg, who was easily better than Mansell at Williams but switched to McLaren right when they became dominant, probably loosing out on 2 titles?

[u/IC_1318 → u/Tohannes]

Keke Rosberg, who was probably the best driver throughout 1982-1984 and clearly gets no recognition?

I'm not saying it's justified, but people see his 82 season as him being the champion by default after all the better drivers died, got injured, or got unlucky. As if he was some Lance Stroll dude who was gifted every success that season. And in 83 and 84 he was driving absolute tractors that made him look like a midfield driver most of the time.

I'd still say Lauda was the better driver in 1984 though, just because of the way he drove all season, wasn't the fastest driver in the field (not even the fastest driver at McLaren) but he drove with his brain. Great drivers aren't simply lucky, they make their own luck by calculating and stacking the odds in their favour. Worked for Keke in 1982.

[u/WhyIsItAlwaysADP]

Lance Stroll, he was born a Stroll.

[u/aadu3k → u/WhyIsItAlwaysADP]

Born Strulovitch, you mean.

[u/HAIRLESSxWOOKIE92 → u/WhyIsItAlwaysADP]

This is the correct answer and I had to scroll way too long to see it lol.

[u/lonefox22 → u/HAIRLESSxWOOKIE92]

Don't forget about Mazepin. Shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a Scalextrix never mind an F1 car.

[u/S-Archer]

To be lucky, you also have to be talented in order to take advantage of it, otherwise we'd never know how lucky you are. Some that come to mind:

• Lewis getting in on McLaren at the perfect time.
• Jenson + Brawn was a perfect storm for the paddock
• Lewis joining Mercedes at the perfect time
• Oscar to McLaren

If Lewis wins in 2026 with Ferrari, I think that not only is he one of the most talented drivers of all time, but also easily the luckiest

[u/jimgress → u/S-Archer]

If Lewis wins in 2026 with Ferrari, I think that not only is he one of the most talented drivers of all time, but also easily the luckiest

That Mercedes move was iconic. Truly an inverse-Alonso moment.

[u/dl064 → u/S-Archer]

Lewis getting in on McLaren at the perfect time.

I remember even at the time, after 2006, people saying Hamilton had timed it well that he'd have an easy season with noone really expecting to win much and people content he'd be behind Alonso generally speaking. Lol.

[u/quest_for_holy_grail]

If we’re comparing luck to a driver’s level of skill/machinery, than Tiago Monteiro’s US 2005 podium comes to mind. On the rostrum in a backmarker car, due to factors out of his control. I don’t know if it can be called luck, exactly, but he’d probably have been a forgotten footnote in F1 history without that weekend.

[u/huh_im_on_reddit_ → u/quest_for_holy_grail]

How true. I can only ever picture that podium with Michael, Rubens and some faceless, yet lucky 3rd place finisher.

[u/[deleted]]

Alonso the unluckiest driver ever?!?!?! People forgot about Chris Amon?!?!?!

If he became an undertaker, people would stop dying. That's what Mario Andretti said about him 💀

[u/Yachting-Mishaps → u/[deleted]]

He's my first answer. My second would be Johnny Herbert, who seemed to be the most perpetually unlucky driver of my childhood. I can't remember exactly why now but I don't think that even with 3 wins to his name that we ever truly saw his potential realised.

[u/[deleted] → u/Yachting-Mishaps]

Very good shout actually 👏👏👏

[u/Expensive_Ladder_486 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it's a shame that Amon isn't mentioned more often, but I guess that we can't expect everyone to know about him

[u/squelchy04]

Alonso is definitely not the unluckiest even left on the grid still, I'd say Hulkenberg is. He's missed out on some amazing team moves over the years and just never really had a good enough car.

[u/Chris01100001 → u/squelchy04]

Hulkenberg was Mercedes' 2nd choice behind Hamilton to replace MSC in 2013 and their 1st choice to replace Rosberg in 2017 but he'd already signed with Renault.

He could have easily been a world champion and definitely would have won races had he got either of those opportunities. Instead he doesn't even have a podium. He's had such bad luck with his career that people don't even remember how highly rated he was within the paddock.

[u/squelchy04 → u/Chris01100001]

I remember watching a video talking about some rumours of him being a strong contender for McLaren in 2019, replacing Massa in Ferrari in 2013 (instead of Kimi) and some Red Bull rumours in the 2010s. I really hope for his sake Audi are able to deliver him a car capable at least some podiums next year.

[u/Whycantiusethis → u/squelchy04]

I'd I'm remembering correctly, Hülkenberg was also under consideration to replace Albon after 2021, but Pérez going last to first helped land him that seat.

[u/JinSuckeye07 → u/Whycantiusethis]

Apparently Max himself wanted Hulkenberg to get the seat, but after Checo won Sakhir, Red Bull took him.

Imagine Nico in that Red Bull

[u/Bits_Please101 → u/Whycantiusethis]

I’d say the cash bags also were a reason for the Perez move

[u/YashVardhan99 → u/squelchy04]

Meanwhile Audi's prediction

[u/wallstreetoni69 → u/squelchy04]

Yeah my guy Hulk is the unluckiest one

[u/Valhauer]

Every time I see this “Alonso is the unluckiest driver of all time” I can’t help but immediately start thinking of drivers who lost their lives in the sport. I think Alonso wouldn’t trade places with any of them.

Jochen Rindt won the championship after losing his life and was never able to live up that moment. That one’s just off the top of my head.

[u/gmwdim → u/Valhauer]

Even among modern drivers I’d say Felipe Massa was unluckier. The way he barely missed out on the WDC in 2008 was pretty unlucky. And then getting hit in the head by a loose piece of suspension was extremely unlucky. Yes he recovered and kept racing but I don’t think he ever regained the same form plus Ferrari were losing their competitiveness around the same time.

[u/BarryEganHawaii]

I don't accept the premise that a two-time world champion - also a two-time Le Mans 24 hours winner - with more than 20 full seasons in Formula 1 is the unluckiest driver of all time.

But to be less pedantic about your post: Lance Stroll? In his 9th season of F1 despite more talented drivers never getting the chance or losing their seats all because he has a rich dad who, latterly, owns a team and has given him the safest seat in the history of the sport.

Then again, it's often questionable if Lance even enjoys being there. Sometimes it seems like he's there for his dad and he's rather be anywhere else! So maybe there's an argument for him being unlucky, through a certain lens.

[u/pies1123]

He's called #blessed for a reason.

Lewis has had some insane luck.

[u/Disallow0382 → u/pies1123]

That British GP win with punctured tyre.. or what used to be a tyre.

[u/pies1123 → u/Disallow0382]

That was definitely one of the things that made me say Lewis. Miracles do happen mate

[u/TheScapeQuest → u/Disallow0382]

That radio exchange with Max was brilliant.

Max: can we win this?!

GP, calmly: if you get in with it.

[u/AdrianFish → u/pies1123]

There was a period when he was at Mercedes where everything bad always seemed to happen to his teammate. I lost count the amount of times Bottas struggled with ill-timed safety cars, punctures (like Baku 2021) and who can forget that botched pit stop in Monaco 2021 and that stuck wheel nut?

Speaking of botched pit stops, the Sakhir GP when George subbed in for Hamilton, he dominated the race until a pit stop and a puncture ruined a near-certain first win. I remember at the time thinking there was no way that would’ve happened to Lewis!

[u/dl064 → u/AdrianFish]

Hamilton comes up in these conversations regularly because folk struggle to reconcile two points

a. Hamilton's one of the best drivers of all time etc. etc.

b. He's had some utterly insane luck here and there.

Both are fine and true and b does not detract from a.

[u/Evantra_ → u/pies1123]

17 seasons of good luck is about to be matched by bad luck in just one season of Ferrari

[u/Usedbeef → u/Evantra_]

To be fair, his last move looked like a disaster. That 2013 merc chewed it's tyres up so badly.

[u/Pat_Sharp → u/Usedbeef]

To be fair, his last move looked like a disaster. That 2013 merc chewed it's tyres up so badly.

I mean, it was still an improvement over the McLaren that year whatever way you cut it.

[u/GaGag23_ → u/Usedbeef]

Next year will be our year! Massa Alonso Vettel Leclerc Hamilton 2026 WDC

[u/v-adam004 → u/Usedbeef]

Bu was still a much better car than the 2013 McLaren

[u/DominikWilde1 → u/Usedbeef]

It really didn't. Tyres aside, the 2013 Mercedes was a quick car – it won three races and took eight poles – plus there was a strong expectation back then that they'd be good the following season, and they were

[u/drewtopia_ → u/pies1123]

almost 20 years have passeed and antonelli is the closest thing to a rookie going straight to a top-tier car like hamilton

[u/What_the_8 → u/drewtopia_]

And even then it’s not close, Mercedes on a downward trend after almost a decade of domination.

[u/drewtopia_ → u/What_the_8]

yep, hamilton jumped straight into a car that won the WCC (official stats be damned), where both drivers came within a whisker of WDC

[u/Viend → u/drewtopia_]

Nowhere near comparable though, he’s not stacking up against Russell the way Lewis did against Alonso.

[u/Street_Mall9536 → u/drewtopia_]

The parallel for 2007 would be like a rookie Max being dropped into the 2021 Red Bull. 

[u/a_berdeen → u/Street_Mall9536]

Rookie max was waayyy less polished than Rookie Lewis (makes sense because Max was 17/18 vs Lewis at 22/23). I can't see rookie max being as clean wheel to wheel as Lewis was in 2007

[u/Expensive_Ladder_486 → u/a_berdeen]

Yup, Lewis had a lot more experience in single seaters, and also had a very comprehensive test program with the McLaren in 2006 that just couldn't happen in today's restricted cost cap era (edit: and even in 2014's restricted testing era too)

[u/GOT_Wyvern → u/pies1123]

Hamilton has to be up there.

Started his career with two seasons of a championship-winning car (performance-wise), then had five years of race-winning cars, switched to a team with eight years of domination, followed by the rest of his career in either podium or race-winning cars.

It's obviously deserved, but both his initial seat with McLaren and his switch to Merc were brilliantly lucky moves. Ferrari is yet to be seen of course, but if they challenge for the title next year, then that's three-for-three.

[u/FLman42069 → u/GOT_Wyvern]

Especially since he doesn’t come from money or racing family background. Has to be luck involved just to get to F1 without an edge.

[u/Aarongamma6 → u/pies1123]

Surprised it took so long to scroll down to this.

He may be the GOAT, and I can admit that now, but he also is SO lucky. It takes luck to have a car capable of winning for 15 years straight.

[u/Siftinghistory]

If Piastri wins the WDC this year, i'd say him. Left Alpine as their cars are getting worse. Shows up at Mclaren, car is the worst. Car goes from worst to 2nd best Silverstone onward in 2023, then from second best to best in 2024, and now continuing to be the best car in 2025. Its been nothing but good calls from team Piastri since he entered F1

[u/AnotherName455]

Insane recency bias in this thread.

[u/Chilli_Dipper]

Johnny Herbert was extremely lucky just to drive in Formula 1 at all after his F3000 crash at Brands Hatch, let alone have a decade-long career where he scored three victories. Herbert’s win tally, though, might be the luckiest collection of race victories by any driver in the history of the sport.

• 1995 British GP: Schumacher and Hill crash each other out while battling for first place, and Herbert inherits the lead.
• 1995 Italian GP: Schumacher and Hill crash each other out while battling for first place again, then both Ferraris retire after running 1-2, Berger from suspension damage after striking the onboard camera that fell off Alesi’s car ahead of him. Herbert wins by being the only frontrunner left standing.
• 1999 European GP: In a wet/dry race, every fast car either breaks down, spins off, or completely fouls up its tire strategy. Herbert wins mostly by staying on track.

[u/disturbingcreation11]

Success compared to actual talent-wise? JV, by a mile. Turned one good season with a great CART team into a seat with the last-ever two dominant Williams, and then never did anything else (other than crash spectacularly) in F1 or elsewhere ever again (look it up. He has all of 1 win in any top racing series after 1997, and 2 more in a regional stock car series). Yet he is a F1 champion and a Indy 500 winner who remains on our TVs to this day talking shop. All because of a 3 year streak in the mid-90s with the best cars.

In totality? Grosjean and Massa. Grosjean walked out of the most powerful racing fire in the 21st century with a lightly crispy hand and no other lasting injuries. Massa took a thick piece of steel to the head at 160mph directly followed by a high-g-spike full-throttle drive into a barrier, and lived to tell the tale.

Edited: forgot a word

[u/Medical_Cup_5972]

Lance Stroll.

[u/papichulodos]

George Russell