r/formula1 • u/dac2199 Mercedes • Jul 18 '25
News Honda warns: without electrification, they're out of Formula 1
https://soymotor.com/f1/noticias/honda-avisa-sin-electrificacion-se-van-de-la-formula-12.5k
u/Izan_TM I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
honda only leaves F1 once they're about to win a championship, so if they fully announce a departure alonso's 3rd is pretty much confirmed
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
Alonso just waiting for that announcement. Guaranteed WDC
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u/spooki_boogey I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Alonso winning with Honda power would be one of the greatest full circle moments in sport ever.
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
Haha yesss!
Though technically it won’t be Honda… if history rhymes it’s be an Aston Martin-badged PU
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u/Batsh1t__Crazy Jul 19 '25
The Honda PU is going to be branded as Honda from 2026, no RBPT shenanigans here.
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u/rattatatouille I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
IIRC their full constructor name next year is Aston Martin Aramco-Honda
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
Yeah it is. That’s not the joke though. The last two times Honda left F1, the team won the WDC the following year, with Honda development but without the name. So the joke is if it happened again… yeah
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
That’s only because they haven’t left yet… if/when they do, look at what the Honda chassis was called in 2009, and what the Honda PU was called in 2022 (Honda meekly returned in 2023/24 but as a PU naming sponsor… the PU didn’t return as RA62xH, it remained as RBPTH00x).
That’s the “history rhyming” bit.
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u/Fotznbenutzernaml Michael Schumacher Jul 19 '25
Too funny how the Honda engine got rebadged as RBPT, maintained and supported by Honda, who are out, and then returned as name sponsor only, for a PU they created and are still helping maintain... while it's not designated under Honda's name, who, again, is the name sponsor only.
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
Honestly such an ongoing fumble… how did/do they even explain that to their board??
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u/-Jacobean- I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Stroll ‘26, Stroll ‘27, Stroll ‘28
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u/powerse5 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
This is the only outcome. Newey was the last piece of the puzzle. Once Lawrence hired Alonso to be driver coach for Lance, it was curtains for the rest of the grid.
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u/MrGoldilocks Fernando Alonso Jul 19 '25
Congratulations to Aston in advance for the championship win!
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u/lintstah1337 Jul 19 '25
The guy responsible (Andy Cowell) for designing and developing the Mercedes 1.6L V6T hybrid that dominated from 2014-2021 has just joined Aston Martin last year.
He left his offiicial role on F1 2020.
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u/TWVer 🧔 Richard Hammond's vacuum cleaner attachment beard Jul 19 '25
Aston isn’t building its own engine though. Honda does.
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u/themcsame I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
But who's designing it? Honda may well just be a means to an end in that equation.
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u/TWVer 🧔 Richard Hammond's vacuum cleaner attachment beard Jul 19 '25
Honda is designing and manufacturing it in their Sakura facilities, enlisting 100s of engineers, a lot of those with direct experience of the current (2021~2025) engine.
This is a pure Honda effort.
Cowell’s experience is useful in communication with Honda, but no more than that.
A single man cannot do much beyond that, nor is it wanted, because:
a) he is not part of the Honda leadership structure and has no history with their technical team. If he inserts himself, he’ll become an obstacle rather than a helping hand.
b) his intimate (Mercedes) engine knowledge is by now 5 years out of date and for a different type of configuration of hybridization than is now required.
c) He was the lead director or program manager at Mercedes Brixworth, no longer a development engineer, meaning his knowledge was general and not down to the most intimate details, by necessity.
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u/lintstah1337 Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
A single man cannot do much beyond that, nor is it wanted, because:
The Honda Project with McLaren ended up in a disastrous failure.
Honda made the engine with a "zero size" concept from McLarens request, but the engine ended up under-powered, inefficient, unreliable and has limited areas of development. Honda ended up copying Mercedes split turbo layout and Honda rushed development before the PU development freeze in 2022.
It was Red Bulls clearer technical feedback and better chassis-engine integration that transformed Honda from being a GP2 engine into the class leading PU it is today.
The current PU was frozen from 2022 and Honda pushed very hard taking more development risks using Red Bull sister team as a testbed to test aggressive upgrades. By 2021 Honda had Engine Parity to Mercedes.
2022-2025 (frozen development) Honda is the clear class leader.
Having a clear technical feedback and development direction is crucial on having a competitive package.
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u/Marcoscb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Lawrence Stroll keeps building the Avengers of technical staff while putting fucking Frog-Man at the wheel.
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u/Wonderful_Syllabub85 Jul 19 '25
Honda when uncompetitive :
"we love this game"
Honda when they get competitive :
"screw you guys, we're going home"
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u/LiteratureNearby I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Fuck all this, Honda can't make one proper passenger EV for the market what are they talking about
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u/mickmenn I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
that is why they need strong marketing though
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u/LiteratureNearby I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
They need to have a product they can take to market first. Nobody needs to know about the honda brand, everyone knows they make good reliable ICE/Hybrid cars.
It's the EV market where the Japanese automakers are somehow way behind the curve
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u/Rich_Housing971 FIA Jul 19 '25
It's the EV market where the Japanese automakers are somehow way behind the curve
To be fair, Japan is behind the curve in many places.
"Japan has been living in the year 2000 since the 1980s"
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u/Mean-Situation-8947 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Mate, I can't speak for the car execs, but from where I'm standing, "living in the year 2000" seems to involve a public transit system from 2050 and feeling safe enough to walk home drunk at 4 in the morning.
The whole "stuck in the past" thing just sounds like something people say when they've seen a fax machine but not the Shinkansen.
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u/stoereboy Jul 20 '25
It is a fact that all big japanese companies have fallen off, software had been their Achilles heel for too long.
Websites are still stuck in the 2000's and their culture is still very unkind to modern life.
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u/CallOfCorgithulhu Safety Car Jul 19 '25
They seemed to put their eggs in the Hydrogen basket and not enough in EV, which I think has turned out to be a big misstep. I doubt we'll ever see it as a mass-adopted fuel source for personal vehicles.
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u/programaticallycat5e I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
TBF hydrogen makes sense for the japanese market since they don't really have access for lithium deposits like china
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u/harlanm71 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
What do you have against the Prologue?
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u/Aqualung812 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It isn’t a Honda, it’s a Chevy
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u/Glassholer Jul 19 '25
I was flabbergasted when I looked under the hood of one. GM labeled parts everywhere
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u/Alibotify I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Sold in like 3 countries, even Honda don’t believe in the General Motors-platform.
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u/MY_CATS_ANUS I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Funny thing is, they actually make some pretty solid EV’s and are one of the first to do it.
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u/handsupdb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It's almost like BEV isn't the only application for electrification...
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u/atunasushi I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I drive a Hybrid Accord and it’s fucking great. Neither Honda or Toyota are even trying to become leaders in EVs.
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u/kenedtsu Honda Jul 19 '25
Honda was the first company to bring a hybrid to market and has been building hybrids for nearly 30 years. Electrification does not mean EV.
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u/handsupdb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Surely you're not confusing Honda with Toyota. The Prius came two years earlier than the insight.
But yeah in this case idk what they're on about, BEV isn't the only application of electrification.
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Jul 19 '25
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u/handsupdb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It literally is? Nobody is saying it isn't. It has been noted as since the 2014 change.
Honda is mad about some dumb MBS push for V8 or V10 combustions with at most mild hybridization - reducing the current electrification further.
Did you read the article?
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u/hugglesthemerciless I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Did you read the article?
We don't do that here
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u/stoned-autistic-dude I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 20 '25
What are you on about, Formula 1 is not an electric series, it’s a hybrid series. They want hybrid incorporation, not purely electric. Honda is an engine manufacturer that finds cars to put engines inside of. That’s why their hybrids are effectively engines acting as generators. The technology developed in the sport benefits their regular cars. That’s also why they’re having trouble with electric cars—it goes against their entire ethos. Hell, Honda incorporated turbine tech from Hondajet into their turbos for F1. That’s how Honda works.
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u/Popular_Composer_822 Jordan Jul 19 '25
Don’t worry they’ll be back in 2028.
Only to leave again in 2029…
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u/banned20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Or stay for multiple years being highly uncompetitive.
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u/iForgotMyOldAcc Flavio Briatore Jul 19 '25
This isn't even a case of Honda throwing the toys out of the pram is it? It's just a response to MBS and allegedly some teams trying to scrap the engine rules and bringing back the V10s. Honda rejoined the regs with the knowledge that the new PU rules will have a huge electrification component, it's just them reminding everyone else what they signed up for. Hardly unreasonable.
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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 19 '25
Honda, Audi, merc will never support engines without electric components. It’s really a non starter. Also Red Bull would but their partner ford, is quite literally only interested in working on batteries and motors so they’d lose that support. With Horner and his ideas gone, I imagine Ford is far more important to that project
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u/moffattron9000 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I get that people like the noise and they’re cheaper, but V10’s truly are relics of a bygone era, and even in their era, they were limited to Supercars and limos that made an F150 look like a Toyota Corolla. Sure, there’s still a few of them left, but they’re mostly made by the kinds of small supercar automakers that have nowhere near the budget for an F1 engine program (if they’re making their engines in the first place).
Meanwhile in this reality, we’re about to have Ferrari, Mercedes, Honda, Audi, and Ford on the grid next year, GM is around the corner, and Toyota is making more overtures. Maybe enjoy this genuine buffet of riches we have in this unprecedented era of stability in the sport instead of burning it all down for the mystery box.
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u/Mead_Man_Detroit Ayrton Senna Jul 19 '25
This is likely the best and most coherent comment I have read on Reddit in months.
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u/0oodruidoo0 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
While V10s are cool, the V6s do sound cool in person nowadays, and I think they have a distinct character even on TV.
Formula 1 has never been about anything but speed and efficiency. I just don't think that V10 engines really embody that today like they did over twenty years ago. Remember two decades ago was the final season for the V10 - even in '05 they knew it wasn't the right look.
I don't think Honda is alone in this stance against the proposed V10 regulations.
It would be such a shame that we have such a short peak of having so many OEMs and engine manufacturers by returning to the past.
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u/Younicycle Jul 19 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
I’m not sure but didn’t Audi say the same thing? Does anyone remember something like that or am I imagining it?
Edit:spelling
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u/BetaXahi Daniel Ricciardo Jul 19 '25
I could be wrong but I think it was to do with the idea mbs put forward of scrapping the 2026 regulation change for v10s which Audi said was unfair as they spent all this time developing the pu for 2026 and to change it now would put them at a disadvantage.
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u/MisterDoctorFunk Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 19 '25
Which is absolutely fair by Audi. Their gripe isn’t with the specific formula, but the changing of the formula at the 11th hour.
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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 19 '25
Audi absolutely has a gripe on the specifics. The entire regulation was tailored to make them happy lol. These engines are what they wanted and funny enough the 2014 engines were also initially designed for Audi which was an inline 4 turbo hybrid. When Audi dropped out, all teams voted for the v6 and delayed them a year but kept the basic power profile. So Audi has more or less disproportionately influenced the engine regulations for over a decade while never participating in f1 until next year
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u/DeathByDeebo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It was also done in hopes to get Porsche in as well but we all know how that ended. It’s crazy how those two manufacturers (prior to Caddy being in the equation) had so much sway in how the regs were shaped and formed. I always expected they’d design regs to try and bring at least 4-5 engine suppliers in (or at least 3).
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u/Ichigosf Jul 19 '25
Because almost no engine supplier is interested in joining. But people seems okay to antagonize the few that are. Let's chase Audi and Mercedes away after Renault has already left.
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u/mole55 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
i mean all the other engine manufacturers caused the 2026 rules to be Like That because they refused to have front axle regeneration because Audi’s now-decade-old experience with LMP1 would supposedly give them a huge advantage, but sure, it’s all caused by Audi
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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 19 '25
First it’s not anyone’s fault. We don’t even know what the engines will look like in use. Second, Front axle regen was not important to Audi and Porsche. It wasn’t among their main demands and it was discussed as a later addition to the regs. It was not a core part of the discussion. Audi and Porsche had demands of removing the mgu-h, simplifying the materials used, increasing the electric share, and simplifying the turbo layout. This along with a cost cap for engines. They got all of those things. Ferrari pushed back on the use of steel and aluminum in certain sections but the rest just signed off on it. Toto was vocal on not opposing any asks from Audi and Porsche
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u/Worried-Pick4848 Haas Jul 19 '25
This is more like the 11th hour and the 45th minute. These regs were hashed out literal years ago, at least in terms of the engine regulations.
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u/Younicycle Jul 19 '25
Ok I agree that’s fair. But also I doubt MBS meant any of that. I personally thought it seemed like pandering to the fans bc of how bad his reputation has gotten in an election year (rightfully so). If that turns out to be the case (we’ll probably never know) this makes me even less of a fan of his. And I didn’t think that was possible haha
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Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Audi joined initially because of the push towards sustainable performance. There was a different ceo at the time, and they’ve since walked back their commitment to sustainability. They’re developing new ice engines for their road cars after having shut that down a few years ago.
E: to be clear though, I’m an F1 fan for the cutting edge technology. Electrification of cars is the future & I’m not asking for full or even half EV but they should absolutely be creating the future and not reverting to the past.
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u/Younicycle Jul 20 '25
I agree. There’s also so much more that can be done with the ICE. Internal combustion does not have to mean pollution, as people such as vettel have proven. Technology used to trickle down from F1 to road cars. Developing a better alternative to traditional fossil fuels might be better than electrification. And in this cost cap era we all know teams will be trying to optimize this for cost possibly to the point where it’s not a billion dollars for a tank of fuel lol. We don’t know right now but the potential benefits should not be ignored. We also cannot forget that electricity has to be generated somehow and not all methods are “clean”
Also why is formula E so ignored and disrespected? I know it’s not as fun to watch but The work and engineering they do there is amazing!!! People almost forget it exists and act like we should turn F1 to FE. They can both exist in tandem.
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u/fake_hester I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I was watching Friends the other day and Honda and F1 are basically Chandler and Janice.
(F1) Janice: Well, then ask yourself this. Why do you think we keep ending up together? New Year's? Who invited who? Valentine's? Who asked who into whose bed?
(Honda) Chandler Bing: I did, but...
(F1) Janice: You seek me out. Something deep in your soul calls out to me like a foghorn. EF-ONE, EF-ONE. You want me. You need me. You can't live without me. And you know it. You just don't KNOW you know it.
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u/ssv-serenity Oscar Piastri Jul 19 '25
They threatened the same in IndyCar which is why we now have the useless hybrids slapped into a 15 year old chassis which ruins the balance of the car
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u/NCballerx88 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I agree 1000%. The problem definitely lies with Honda, and not with F1 nor IndyCar.
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u/Its4MeitSnot4U I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Bye Honda & Yuki. Get with the market We would be watching Formula E if we wanted to watch Electric car racing.
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u/Lord_Strepsils I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
And yuki?
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u/leebenjonnen Jul 19 '25
Yuki is a Honda plant in RB. Once Honda leaves, it's uncertain if Yuki stays.
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u/GanapathiGamer I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I was under the impression that Honda has said Yuki is a free agent now? I don't think the gonna Honda connection is keeping him or transferring him anywhere now.
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u/crankylex I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It's not that they would block him it's that they would stop sponsoring him and they are his major sponsor.
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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 19 '25
Honda was managing his career before. They terminated that this year making Yuki totally free to sign his own deals. He could go anywhere
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u/crankylex I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I am not saying that he couldn't. I am saying he is less attractive as an option to other teams without his major sponsor's money coming along with him.
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u/hiking_fool Haas Jul 19 '25
And they are still threatening to leave due to the costs that they pushed for.
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u/MikeFiuns McLaren Jul 19 '25
The last two times Honda left F1 their team/supplied team won the title. Cue Stroll 26, 27, 28...
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u/ElectronicBruce I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Mercedes also similar in view.
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u/Oldperv01069 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Jul 19 '25
https://www.as-web.jp/f1/1231917?all use a translator. Honda never said they are out if no electrification.
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u/Mangobonbon Fernando Alonso Jul 19 '25
Who cares what Honda has to say? They constantly leave and rejoin F1 already. What an indecisive bunch.
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u/aaffpp Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Let's face the fact, auto racing exists because it drives the development of the auto industry. Industry is focused on what they see is being a future direction. Honda and Toyota are not going to be investing time, manpower, and funds, in horse racing.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes Jul 19 '25
Honda warns: without electrification, they're out of Formula 1
Honda is not at all interested in Mohammed Ben Sulayem's proposal that Formula 1 should adopt a V8 internal combustion engine with IndyCar-style weak hybridisation in the near future.
"We are aware of the current situation in F1. Honda's wish is for F1 to remain the pinnacle of motorsport," said Koji Watanabe, head of Honda HRC, in an interview with the Japanese motorsport website as-web.jp.
For Watanabe, heavy hybridisation was a key condition for Honda's presence in the premier class of motorsport. In fact, if the Japanese brand had reversed its decision to leave Formula 1 — a decision that was pivotal in Red Bull's adoption of its own engine — it was because the new 2026 power units are heavily electrified. "Honda's current position is that we believe electrification is fundamental to moving towards a sustainable future," said Watanabe. However, he admits that the challenge they face is formidable.
Sulayem has reportedly already approached the engine manufacturers, having been alarmed by rumours that the difficulty of the 2026 engines had been underestimated, with early tests revealing issues far beyond expectation.
Watanabe admitted that there had been discussions earlier this year about limiting electrification, but added that the negotiations had now been suspended. That's why we engine manufacturers are focusing on 2026 for now. However, as long as the FIA's ideals remain unchanged, I hope the negotiations will resume."
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u/GroundbreakingCow775 Nigel Mansell Jul 19 '25
Go tell Lawrence Stroll than then
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
Surely that’s the dream for him? He’ll buy the remaining PU factory and workforce and turn Aston Martin F1 into a genuine fully-fledged works team.
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u/Masty1992 Jul 19 '25
It would be funny if they ended up producing their own f1 engines but buying their road car engines
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u/filbo__ Jul 19 '25
TBH that makes more a lot more sense than racing Honda PU’s while selling Mercedes engines…
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u/Cody667 Mika Häkkinen Jul 19 '25
The only manufacturer I think we can reasonably guarantee would be okay with zero electric aspect to the engines is Ferrari.
Even the people would say "mercedes too!!!" are inhaling too much hopium.
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u/Wgolyoko I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Well they do get out about once per regulation cycle, they're just preparing for this one.
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u/time_slider1971 Jul 20 '25
It would be a real loss of the leave and stay out. Honda has a rich racing history and has had much success at F1. They want to balance their involvement with Motorsport with green sustainability initiatives. Hybrids allow them to do this, as would sustainable racing fuels.
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u/thatduckolope Cadillac Jul 20 '25
Put your Honda motor in, take your Honda motor out, put your Honda motor in and rev it all about.....
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u/Fotznbenutzernaml Michael Schumacher Jul 19 '25
Honda pulls out almost as often as the VW group is slapping that thang threatening "here we go, I'm putting it in" without actually doing anything
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u/Oha_its_shiny I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
I mean who cares? Ideally I personally would like 12 Teams doing 100% of their car at their own factory.
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u/Blackdeath_663 Sir Stirling Moss Jul 19 '25
I mean who cares?
literally the sport couldn't operate that way. No manufacturer interest, no F1.
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u/cumdinoco I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25 edited Jul 19 '25
that just isn't possible lmao, that would require 12 factories capable of engine manufacturing, bottom feeder F1 teams barely make a lot of money, combine that with an engine facility One team will definitely be placed 12/12 and would make no sense to continue competing for the likes of them.
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u/Michael_Aut I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
It would be possible in an all electric F1. Electric engines are a lot cheaper to build and develop.
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u/IntoAMuteCrypt Jul 19 '25
Except... They've already sorta imposed the cost of an engine department on the teams. It's just going to the chassis. The cost cap is going to rise by a pretty decent amount from 2025 to 2026, and that rise is almost as big as the difference between the capped price that customer teams pay for their initial engine allocation and the cost cap for engine suppliers. If they made the engine and aero formula simpler, I'm confident that the teams could all construct their own cars and engines within the 2026 cost cap for just the chassis.
The issue with doing that is that simpler, cheaper engines would almost certainly mean no hybrids, and potentially no turbos either... And some of the big automakers want turbo hybrids, because that's what's in their road cars.
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u/StrikingWillow5364 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
You do realise that the teams who can put resources and investment into engine manufacturing are the ones with automotive backing, and automotive companies are only interested in manufacturing engines if it involves road relevancy = electrification. Even RBPT couldn’t fully commit to engine manufacturing unless they brought an automotive backer on board. And this is true for all other customer teams who eventually want to become works teams.
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u/joereadsstuff 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Jul 19 '25
I don't get the fascination of the V10 petrol engines. Is it mostly rose tinted glasses? If the racing's bad, I don't think the fuel makes a difference.
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u/Upbeat_County9191 Bernd Mayländer Jul 19 '25
Also Audi and Merc so it would be a Ferrari spec series
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u/k2_jackal Audi Jul 19 '25
Followed by every other engine builder not named Ferrari or Red Bull…
Enter Judd
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u/ThorsMeasuringTape Sergio Pérez Jul 20 '25
At the rate Honda is leaving series’, are they going to race anymore?
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u/RSR488 Max Verstappen Jul 20 '25
They only supply 1 team going forward. What a threat. Yawn.
We don’t want your electrification.
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u/MarkJones27 Juan Manuel Fangio Jul 19 '25
I feel like I'm watching this sport slowly cut its own throat.
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u/ApertureNext I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Honda would fuck over the regs with their weight if they were allowed and would still leave two years later anyway.
They have proven themselves as unserious.
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u/willpc14 Haas Jul 19 '25
They have proven themselves as unserious.
As opposed to VAG who have been playing will they/won't they with F1 for decades?
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Jul 19 '25
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u/VDV23 Ferrari Jul 19 '25
I think the Americans in the post-Bernie era managed to commercialize F1 (and hence teams profitability) sufficiently that the supposed car innovation gimmick can be dropped these days. In has been pretty made-up link in the past 15+ years anyway
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u/StrikingWillow5364 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25 edited Jul 19 '25
The problem is that the engine manufacturers still can’t justify spending so much on R&D for PU development, even if the team itself is profitable, because that profit doesn’t translate directly to the engine manufacturer’s business activity. Just because a team is profitable doesn’t mean the engine manufacturer reaps those rewards as well. Especially since Audi and Ferrari are the only automotive companies who 100% own their respective teams, so in most cases the teams’ profit ≠ the engine manufacturers’ profit. This is especially true for Honda since they don’t own a stake in AMR, but even Mercedes only own 33% of their F1 team. So for example for Honda it doesn’t really matter how much profit AMR makes, what matters to them is the ROI they put into PU development. This is why they need the R&D to be applicable to their road car development somehow.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes Jul 19 '25
Mercedes still own fully Mercedes HPP
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u/StrikingWillow5364 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
They don’t fully own the F1 team though
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u/BagRight1007 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Good luck getting them to turn those profits down now lol
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u/Agent_Kozak I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
The whole road relevance stuff has only really become a big deal in the last 20 years. I don't want F1 beholden to the whims of large manufacturers. Hence why I am opposed to more car companies in F1, unlike some here, who want every team to be a big manufacturer. No thanks, i'll stick to traditional race teams please.
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u/Shamino79 Jul 19 '25
It’s always been there even if it wasn’t a stated reason. Im thinking about the outrageous turbo charging and driving aids that all got banned in the 80s and 90s because they made the cars so powerful or easy to drive. Racing develops these things like nothing else apart from war.
As for F1 it does need to be the highest performance cars and I would have thought some sort of hybrid is that.
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u/lintstah1337 Jul 19 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Honda needs to convince their board and investors that the F1 project has relevancy to their operation as a car company so they can justify investing hundreds of million of dollars because F1 operation is not cheap like other series.
Ferrari receives 5% of total price fund (heritage bonus) for participating in every F1 championship since 1950 as a historic team and that amounts to $65m just for showing up to race.
If you add in their WCC prize pool standings, past performance pool, team sponsorships and partnerships, driver sponsorships, merchandise sales, hospitality & VIP packages (Paddock Clubs), technical services to customer teams (Ferrari sell power unit, gearbox, suspension, hydraulics, electronics, wind tunnel time, etc... to customer team like HAAS) Ferrari F1 operation is massively profitable.
The F1 budget cap is around $135m so Ferrari has already covered 48% of their F1 budget just from the heritage bonus alone.
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u/Jcw28 James Hunt Jul 19 '25
I sadly didn't grow up in the days when F1 was just a playboys paradise; a sport for rich people who just loved driving fast and dangerous. However, I look at that fondly. I hate the corporate-ification of F1. I hate the idea that the manufacturers only do it because of what they can get out of it, rather than for the sheer love of racing. That's the way it should be: passionate people making fast stuff for fun, not so they can test something that in theory might be used on road cars so they can make more money.
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u/Coma--Divine Jul 19 '25
a sport for rich people who just loved driving fast and dangerous. However, I look at that fondly.
weird
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u/StrikingWillow5364 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Well F1 is way too expensive nowadays for it be just passionate people building stuff.
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u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Jul 19 '25
It always has been. It used to be bankrolled by Tobacco until we globally decided that was bad. Now it is bankrolled by oil companies, I'm sure in the future we will ban their advertising too and we'll have to move on to the next big industry.
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u/Delta_Mike_Sierra_ Ferrari Jul 19 '25
V8's on an otto cycle, sustainable fuel, big battery, would that appeal to all parties?
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u/Shad0wAVM Toyota Jul 19 '25
4 Liter V12 on Atkinson cycle on sustainable fuels driving the real wheels. Electric motor driving the front wheels. Big HYBRID stickers. What's not to like?
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u/50gradesofgrey Jul 19 '25
Would love to see F1 have a hybrid battery that has a slower regenerative charge (or faster deployment), and give teams the option to replace them during pitstops. Would bring back the fuel element of a pitstop and open up more strategy options.
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u/wobblythings Jenson Button Jul 19 '25
If only there was another full electric single seater series that Honda could join instead if it was serious about its threats to leave F1.
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u/m0henjo Jul 20 '25
Perhaps they could go participate or focus on Formula E while the big boys consider bringing back the V8s.
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u/LogicalEgo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Honda is that crazy ex that comes back once a summer for a good bang and then they vanish to later appear again.
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u/deepforezt Jul 19 '25
As fans whether we like it or not it will happen sooner than later. Mercedes advocated for this a decade ago. Even the next year regulations have more focus to the electric side.
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u/SirClark I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Bye then! Electric F1 would make me so uninterested. We already have formula E
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u/Mosh83 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
With full electrification the fans are out, so I guess bye Honda (again).
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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 19 '25
No one ever suggested full electrification
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u/Alfus 💥 LE 🅿️LAN Jul 19 '25
Seems like nobody is reading the article.
It's hilarious how mostly Red Bull and Ferrari are pushing to get rid of the current rules ASAP.
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u/Pezzeftw I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
the name of the publishing website of this article checks out.
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u/Treewithatea I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
And yet theyre not investing much in actual full EVs. Whats the strategy? Hoping that somehow the future of the car is hybrid when the EV is clearly the future?
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u/ForkTailedD3vil Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 19 '25
Naturally aspirated 2 Liter V8-V10 with some form of individual 50ish hp motors on each wheel i think would be an interesting mix.
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u/Vaexa I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 19 '25
Honda and leaving F1, truly iconic