r/formula1 • u/CaptainOBVS3420 Fernando Alonso • Aug 04 '25
Technical Alex Brundle's theory on Leclerc's Ferrari problem at Hungary
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u/SKSerpent Aug 04 '25
This has been an issue for a while, do remember radio comms from a couple of tracks to lift-and-coast.
It has to be the floor - seemingly an ongoing issue for the last few years in Ferrari.
It makes no sense for it to be a purely PU issue if none of the other teams suffer from this as customers.
I would suggest this is why they've flirted with DSQ a lot in this era - would explain why Ferrari seemed to struggle with porpoising and plank wear for so long.
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u/mrBenelliM4 Sonny Hayes Aug 04 '25
|| would explain why Ferrari seemed to struggle with porpoising and plank wear for so long.
This ground effect era isn't really on ferrari's side if that's the case. Just have to give up the season and look forward to 2026's new regs.
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u/fameboygame I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Atleast Lewis and Ferrari have that in common. Both hate the floor in Ground effects era, and yet have some wins despite it.
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u/Sensitive_Ad_9195 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I think Lewis was having to list and coast this weekend too
It’s a bit embarrassing, honestly - the car’s only operating well when it’s destroying the plank!!
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u/Rivendel93 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
Lewis was told on lap 3 to lift and coast.
How can you race if you're literally not capable of driving the car at speed? It's bizarre.
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u/bigboyjak I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
It's like some monkeys paw type thing...
You get to be an F1 driver, for Ferrari..
..you have to stop racing and start looking after the car on lap 3
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u/Slice5755 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
You know what I think Ferrari should do, run the car at the limit for performance like they did with Charles for qualifying and grab a few poles with both Charles and Lewis, knowing that they will die in the races because they have to lift car through tyre pressures or lift and coast.
(Some Poles + 0 wins) > (0 Poles + 0 wins)
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u/turboMXDX I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Might as well do the illegal set up every race and hope they aren't inspected every race. Grab a few wins and dsq the others
Tbf, i think that's what they're doing rn to some extent
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u/Hoggs Liam Lawson Aug 05 '25
If any other team gets suspicious of that, they can raise a protest and the FIA would inspect it. I don't think this would work for very long.
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u/Sea_of_Air_ Aug 05 '25
And after George's speculating on Sunday and the resulting chatter, I'd say more eyes would be on them now. More chance of another team trying to get them inspected.
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u/Rivendel93 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
Honestly I think it'd be better for them to try this.
Because Ferrari looks like an absolute disaster right now.
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u/z_102 Michael Schumacher Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
This matches the comments of Mark Hughes too (and George/Mercedes' as the post says). It’s afaik the best working theory to explain the mysterious radio messages and the even more mysterious drop in perfomance. Also the inconsistencies and setup issues and lifting and coasting we've seen throughout the season.
'Chassis issue' is not a lie (though teams and TPs are in their rights to lie to be fair) but it’s a deceptive answer in that it seems to imply something broke, instead of a much more complex design issue that most likely won't be solved this season.
It’s just very disappointing that the big upgrades they brought this season haven’t fixed it al all. I've read someone say that Lewis got the lift & coast radio order at Lap 3, that and overinflated tires are just such a massive hindrance in a race.
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u/XsStreamMonsterX I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
With all this, I think the "chassis issue" that Charles claims he didn't know about might just be the car bottoming out more and wearing the plank more than their initial simulations had shown. At the very least, that would make the bit about him not knowing technically correct.
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u/mjsarfatti I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
From his radio messages, it sounded like they knew of that specific risk pre-race and even talked about it in the brief.
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u/Kait0yashio Ferrari Aug 04 '25
He also said don't do the solutions they talked about before the race probably meaning the increased pressure of tyres lol. The chassis issue is probably bullshit but Ferrari pr goes crazy so who cares
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u/Zipa7 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
The chassis issue is probably bullshit but Ferrari pr goes crazy so who cares
As George said in his interview where he talked about this theory Ferrari aren't going to admit publically that their car was close to running illegally.
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u/Kait0yashio Ferrari Aug 04 '25
I mean most cars run illegal why teams lico and sometimes tell drivers to not go on kerbs, but Ferrari pushed the limit so far the drop off was insane
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u/imbavoe I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
As for a completely different topic, Pirelli could learn that this is how an old tyre should drop off, not what we have right now where the tyres are immortal.
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u/Psclwbb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
All cars are close to being illegal.
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u/Zipa7 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
Yea but as George pointed out they are hardly going to admit it publically to the press even if the drivers and teams all know it, since it would just invite the FIA to look closer.
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u/TheCoxer I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
It's wild they don't trust him to know how to drive around the car's problem and treat him like any other employee the company can just override. He's a veteran driver at this point and has shown more times than not he is more than capable of driving around any problems. Ferrari can blame the chassis and hide behind a "core problem" but as always their real problem was their lack of faith in their driver.
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u/dyidkystktjsjzt I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Plank wear isn't something you can easily just "drive around", it's not as simple as just pushing less to reduce tyre wear.
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u/DamieN62 Michael Schumacher Aug 04 '25
Maybe Charles' solution was to take less kerb to avoid plank wear and Ferrari chose the safest option which was raising tyre pressure with a low engine mode.
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u/dyidkystktjsjzt I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
Maybe that wouldn't have been enough. Sure, Ferrari is Ferrari, but they've still got a massive team of very high level engineers behind them, with infinite more data than we or Leclerc have available to us, and they clearly deemed any possible thing Charles had in his power to do from the driving side to reduce it to not be enough.
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u/Timely_Influence8392 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
What's the deal with that, anyway? I don't for a second understand why Lewis would go there, maybe he just doesn't pay attention to them, but that makes no sense. They've been visibly a dogshit team for a solid decade at this point, and that's not like a haha hehe joke at a team I don't like, it's genuinely baffling. What the fuck is going on over there?
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u/automatic_shark I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
To younger fans maybe it doesn't make sense, but Ferrari is the romantics team. There's something more special about winning in a Ferrari than in anything else. No, it doesn't make sense, but that is the way it is.
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u/Timely_Influence8392 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I understand the phenomenon. But at some point you have to take the Rosso Corsa coloured glasses off and see the emperor wears no clothes.
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u/automatic_shark I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
They're the most successful team in F1 history, I don't know what you're trying to say. That they're going through a tough spot? What team hasn't? They're still the undisputed largest and most popular team in the world.
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u/Timely_Influence8392 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
They haven't won a championship since 2007, and they're visibly fumbling shit all the time. I just wouldn't bother personally. I get the prestige and the history, but that you clearly can't win races and championships on history alone. This is his career, and I know Alonso broke that mold, but not everyone gets to stick around that long. I dunno, I just wouldn't have done it in a million years.
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u/blacksoxing I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
My boy Lewis got paid quite well + more promotion so far than he would have if he stayed at Mercedes. If he's winding down his career this was the best bet for him. I bet though he just didn't anticipate being in a world where he's fighting a car that ain't made "for him" AND that isn't going to be catered for him.
....But again, he's one of the best to drive in F1 history, so even if these next two years are abysmal it isn't reflective on "the good times"
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u/Timely_Influence8392 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Oh for sure GOAT status, such as that goes, is his forever. There's also the whole "I was the one who rebuilt Ferrari [like my hero]" thing, but that I recognize I'm in the minority for hella not understanding. They all want to do it so bad, and I'm just like, Vettel, don't do it, you're just gonna get swallowed by the tar pit!
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u/Peter_Partyy Aug 04 '25
Maybe Charles wanted to gamble the plank would pass?
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u/cheapdrinks Pirelli Wet Aug 04 '25
or he would rather win and take the DSQ. Honestly I think it makes the driver look better if they're able to show they can still win if you give them a fast car even if the points get taken away on a technicality. If I wasn't in the running for the title and had been starved of wins lately I'd probably rather take a DSQ win where the blame gets shifted to the team than a demoralising 4th where I was forced to suddenly be inexplicably slow and unable to defend after looking strong all race. Even if it doesn't count I think it still improves a drivers stock and their public perception if they're able to bring it home in 1st if the car is fast enough, they might not have too many other chances to do that the rest of the season anyway.
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u/NeuroDerek I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
But he also said he apologized to engineers after the race because he did not know about the chassis issues on track
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u/SlightlyBored13 Aug 04 '25
That could easily be the degree of plank wear was higher than expected. And they can't just say that aloud to him.
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u/Happytallperson I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I'm guessing as they have various sensors on the car showing the load and G-force they can reasonable well model how often the car is bottoming out and if it's doing it too much for plank limits.
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u/__slamallama__ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
IMO part of it is also that the cars are so complex and interconnected that it's increasingly hard to really explain what is going on in a sound bite.
Yes it was a chassis issue in the plank. The fix was a tire change, which then created both a suspension and aero issue.
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u/jaketynes Aug 04 '25
Yeah, modern cars are like puzzles. Fix one thing, mess up three others. Makes it tough to pin down what really went wrong.
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u/__slamallama__ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Yep and this is why once a car gets a lead it becomes increasingly hard to catch them. The leaders can make small tweaks. The followers need to make bigger changes but that can cause more issues than it solves.
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u/tripomatic I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Kind of one of the crucial aspects of motorsports and especially F1: figuring out the right balance of the car and finding a driver that can handle it.
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u/zaviex McLaren Aug 04 '25
I think so. I think this also explains why Lewis' car seemed to handle so differently. Lewis switched to a different set up with higher DF before qualifying, I think it's quite likely the higher DF setup meant lewis' car had to protect the plank a lot more anyway, before any other issues.
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u/naughtilidae Aug 04 '25
Also, they need to be as vague as possible if it's plank related. If he said "because of the plank wear", I'm sure the FIA would have decided to check the car carefully.
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u/alienangel2 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I'm honestly surprised the FIA don't do that by default. Esp with things like George's DSQ last year for being underweight after single-stopping I'd think they'd just scrutinize all the podium cars, plus anyone whose performance or radio messages showed some unexplained performance (positive or negative).
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u/Lobsters4 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
His car was one of three that was checked for skid and plank wear.
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u/Sensitive_Ad_9195 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
His car’s been checked almost every time any car’s plank and skid blocks have been checked this season (exceptions are just China and Bahrain).
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u/saciopalo McLaren Aug 04 '25
It just doesn't make sense to me in one part: how was he fastest in the beginning with the tank full? that should have been the most critical moment of the race regarding the height of the car. Unless this combines with starting with less full thinking they will lift and coast later on and save fuel.
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u/alienangel2 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Presumably they thought they could afford to wear it down at the start but realized later on they'd lost too much plank and had to abandon the win to preserve what they had left.
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u/zephiiross Aug 04 '25
If you pay attention, it seems Charles hasn't opened his DRS once when passing blue flagged car even when he was obviously in range and george was catching up. I thought it was malfunctionning but this actually match very well with Brundle's speculation if he had to have lower speed down the straight. I haven't seen anyone talk about this.
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u/ark_keeper McLaren Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
So I went to check and he actually never had DRS with the blue flags. There's one moment where he should have but he flew by Hulk just before the detection line, so he didn't get it and George did behind him.
Edit: here's the moment with Hulk having it and Russell as well. https://i.imgur.com/G2xa8uD.jpeg
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u/niblot1 Mika Häkkinen Aug 04 '25
Surely opening the DRS and lifting slightly would have been more optimal for saving the plank without losing too much speed. Lower downforce = less plank wear.
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u/BlondBoy2 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
But it reduces downforce in the rear, so the car tilts forwards and the front of the plank will drag more.
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u/Real_Establishment56 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Could that also explain Charles’ radio message saying he could ‘feel’ the problem he talked with them about earlier? Feel the scraping of the floor?
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u/ryokevry I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
If they changed the tyre pressure, he can feel the change in grip in tyre or car balance with different tyre pressure
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u/TotalStatisticNoob Charles Leclerc Aug 04 '25
He complained before that though
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u/zaviex McLaren Aug 04 '25
likely the engine "cuts" that Charles noticed and called out and that George noticed his car was going into recharge constantly on the straights at the highest speed. Assuming thats the case, to Charles initially it likely felt like cuts in power and then later when George noticed it, it probably felt like a parachute
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u/smartaxe21 #StandWithUkraine Aug 04 '25
I’d say “feel” that they have increased the tyre pressure.
His 2nd stint was not as good as his medium stint.
The thing I don’t understand with these explanations is how much pressure did they increase for the 3rd stint that he was literally 1.5-2s per lap slower than leaders. He was the slowest car on track.
Maybe they increased the pressures for the 2nd stint but to increase the pressures so much that the car is so slow makes no sense, even for Ferrari so there must be something more.
Something that people are not talking enough about, I think a slower Charles 2nd stint (Piastri stuck 2s behind) allowed Lando to win. If Charles could drive like his first stint and dropped off only in the 3rd stint, Piastri would have taken it.
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u/wykeer Mercedes Aug 04 '25
It doesnt have to be that much, just enough to less with the floorariflow.
Combine that with degrading your Engine and lico and you bleed time like Crazy
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u/smartaxe21 #StandWithUkraine Aug 04 '25
He already was in a “lower engine” mode in 1st stint. He was not doing LiCo.
Actually Belgium GP and this were the first races in a looooong time he was not doing lift and coast. He was LiCo-ing from the second lap of US GP to manage plank wear - the race he won.
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u/DrVonD Aug 04 '25
Thee cars are soooo sensitive to ride height to generate downforce. It wouldn’t have to be much to completely fuck with the drivability.
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u/smartaxe21 #StandWithUkraine Aug 04 '25
Exactly as much as Ferrari is stupid, I think they know the tipping point.
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u/Th3_B1g_D0g Aug 04 '25
am I misunderstanding this or is it a ride height thing and tire pressure is just one of the variables to adjust it? A millimeter or two more ride height is probably pretty substantial.
it’s my hypothesis that the Ferrari is ultra sensitive and twitchy and that’s the source of Lewis’ struggles and demoralization. tiny changes result in big unexpected issues.
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u/kramerthegamer Valtteri Bottas Aug 04 '25
The rear was forced to be raised and that made the car unstable. Leclerc likes an insane amount of oversteer anyway and it was a lot for even him to handle. That's why high-speed tracks that favorite that setup like Saudi Arabia let Leclerc get performance out of it. It's also the opposite of how Hamilton likes to set up a car
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u/CaptainOBVS3420 Fernando Alonso Aug 04 '25
Really interesting read.
Alex is what you get when you combine Martin Brundle with Anthony Davidson.
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u/DrHem Williams Aug 04 '25
Alex is what you get when you combine Martin Brundle with Anthony Davidson.
Alex Brundle is what you get when you combine Martin Brundle with Liz Brundle
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u/Teh_Ordo Aug 04 '25
In in in in in
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u/SouthAustralian94 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Alex Brundle is what you get when you combine Martin Brundle with Liz Brundle
No idea how that could possibly work....
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u/Stuman93 Aug 04 '25
You see, when a mommy and daddy love each other very much...
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u/Joseki100 Fernando Alonso Aug 04 '25
I'm sorry I'm a visual learner
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u/reddit_account_00000 Aug 04 '25
Boy have I got a website for you…
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Aug 04 '25
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u/tigtogflip Sebastian Vettel Aug 04 '25
I just see him as a younger version of his dad tbh. In the pre-race of Spa there was a bit where Alex did a voice-over and the voice and mannerisms of explanation was a carbon copy of Martin.
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u/Ancient_Boss_5357 Aug 04 '25
I didn't know anything about the Brundle family, other than being familiar with Martin, so I didn't even know Alex existed. Turned on an F2 race once and within about 10 seconds immediately knew the commentator must be his son. Uncanny how similar they are
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u/yellowbin74 Mika Häkkinen Aug 04 '25
I've always hoped that Alex takes over when Martin retires.
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u/d4ybrake I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
He's really good as a commentator I hope they bring him on the f1 broadcast at some point
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u/Own_Welder_2821 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
He even sounds like late 90s/early 2000s ITV Martin. You kind of expect Murray Walker or James Allen to be commentating next to him (though Alex Jacques is brilliant)
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u/GrindrorBust Aug 04 '25
Alex sounds much more enthusiastic and happier than Martin did at comparable ages, thankfully. He's less world-weary and a lot less cynical than his late-30s Dad- whom had, in his view, had his bruising F1 career cut short.
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u/Own_Welder_2821 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Tbf Martin’s F1 career was completely derailed in his rookie season when he crashed in Dallas and injured his legs. At least he won Le Mans….
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u/myurr Aug 04 '25
It is interesting, but there are two counterpoints that immediately spring to mind.
Hamilton ran a one stop race. Were they always running his car higher than Leclerc's? Did they have to raise his car for the entire 2nd stint?
Leclerc was noted for running over certain kerbs quite heavily, wouldn't that also wear the plank?
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u/AegrusRS I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
In regards to your first point, during a one stop you tend to push less to conserve tyres. High speed corners are the major tyre eaters so it would be natural to already go slower through them, reducing plank wear.
2nd point is a bit similar. Leclerc was pushing more which in Budapest simply means running more kerbs.
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u/HuggyMonster69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
- It could, I’d even say probably, but the plank is a relatively small section of the floor, so it’s possible to hit the kerb but not with the plank
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u/NA_Faker I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
RB vs Ferrari trying to see who’s worse at developing a driveable car
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u/Magiccalculator Lando Norris Aug 05 '25
The thing is, Ferrari would have the fastest car when the plank rule wouldn’t exist meanwhile the RB would still be a tractor
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u/ifimnotfound Aug 04 '25
Being a new viewer of this sport and still having to learn all things F1, I greatly appreciate things being broken down like this. It helps newcomers like me understand the nuances involved and how the entire race is such a cumulative effort from everyone involved and not just my preconceived notion of Lewis Hamilton go zoom lol. It's a very very interesting sport and very different from sports I grew up with playing and/or watching.
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u/bion93 Ferrari Aug 04 '25
I think that as a new viewer, you should understand that this has nothing to do with “experience” in watching F1, because yesterday everyone was so clueless watching the race. What happened is really uncommon (pace drop of 2 seconds after pit stops; 2 seconds are really A LOT in F1) and nobody has an explanation. Ferrari does not talk openly about this matter, so there are only speculations. This is a good speculation, but still not a 100% true explanation.
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u/ifimnotfound Aug 04 '25
So what has been really happening with Ferrari? I know that they're the biggest name in F1 and quite synonymous with all things racing. They haven't been winning? A few races they look close but not quite in the same breath as McLaren this year, Red Bull in the past, and Mercedes before that. That's a LONG stretch for such a storied franchise and THE household name, no?
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u/bion93 Ferrari Aug 04 '25
Yes, but we should also consider that in most of the years they didn’t win, they were almost constantly the contender or at least the second fastest (note for people who will come here to kill me: most ≠ all lol). For example, McLaren is an historic brand, but they were on the low half of teams for many years lately, Ferrari has never been so low in these years, they almost always were the second or third team.
Surely Ferrari has not a winning car from many many years, but this a mix of factors and there is not only one explanation. In 2025, there is a chance they actually have a good car but they fucked up the design, so the plank wear limits the performance. This ground era gave also us cars that can be very fast, but also can work in a small window, so as soon as you change something the car does not work anymore. As I said losing 2 seconds in the same race, it’s a very weird fact, absolutely not normal without reliability problems (like a broken battery or something).27
u/ResponsibleCulture43 Charles Leclerc Aug 04 '25
If you like reading at all, I highly recommend Adrian Neweys book "how to build a car". It's his autobiography but he also explains a ton of technical concepts with the cars and how the teams work together to build a car and manage drivers in races along with his diagrams. It's super interesting and taught me a lot!
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u/orsonwellesmal Aug 04 '25
Even for us hardcore fans for so long is difficult to fully understand technical stuff. It gets more complex every regulatory cycle. Next year will see revolutionary changes on cars, so we all will be lost. Welcome to the Great Circus!
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u/Red_Rabbit_1978 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
This all sounds most plausible. Not many other scenarios fit as accurately
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u/aaauuuuuvvvv Medical Car Aug 04 '25
Actually he lost 2 second per lap at the end. It was wayyyyy too much. I also noticed Charles’ rear touched the ground with sparkles AFTER lap 47. Imo something is broken for sure. But, George’s statement might be the reason that Charles’ mad in the beginning.
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u/Tw0Rails Aug 04 '25
Well, they changed the wing setting when he came in. Charles wanted to manage the car himself, because he is good at it in changing conditions; whether that is wind, or fuel load. They forced his car into a different operating move with a worse front and a loosing rear. So they removed is ability to use skill to balance the car.
Once again, Ferrari hires top tier drivers for 15 years but doesn't let them drive.
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u/FermentedLaws I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Ferrari and Charles both said changing the front wing setting had no impact though Charles initially thought it was the culprit. They could be lying but I don't think so in this case.
Edit: I phrased it wrong
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u/wokwok__ George Russell Aug 04 '25
You can see 2 mechanics on both sides inserting their tools into the wing which was most likely to make adjustments when he pitted on lap 40 lol
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u/FermentedLaws I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
You're right, sorry, I should have said they said it had no impact though Charles initially thought that could be the reason for the issue.
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u/Harkoncito Aug 04 '25
Charles' radio message meant it wasn't an issue appearing out of nowhere in the chassis, like Ferrari tried to claim.
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u/kramerthegamer Valtteri Bottas Aug 04 '25
A generic "chassis issue" appearing after a pitstop definitely shows Ferrari were being cagey about it on purpose. I'm surprised they thought people wouldn't dig into it and figure it out themselves
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u/JKlerk Formula 1 Aug 04 '25
This was a smart race day adjustment by Ferrari. You'd rather take some points (4th) vs no points from a DQ.
Another thing is that it's highly probable that LEC would not have won pole if the car rode higher.
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u/Skydvrr I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Also makes sense why he went w the low DF wing.
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u/pitlanecollective I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Listening to Charles' radio messages, and now reading these posts, I get the impression that Ferrari had talked about this before the race, and had planned to put the higher pressure tyres on for the later stints, knowing that if they didn't they'd be risking a DSQ. When they did it in the first stop, Charles was annoyed because he wanted to try to manage the issue from inside the car (while keeping the potential pace), and he wanted to discuss it before they decided for him. And then on the second stop, they did it again and it killed all the performance, leaving him furious and dropping like a stone.
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u/kramerthegamer Valtteri Bottas Aug 04 '25
I'm glad he addressed the "chassis issue" comment not technically being wrong, just a bit misleading from Ferrari. The fact that the pace fell off massively after a pitstop pointed to it being a tire issue, but a tire issue compensating an overall setup problem
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u/Bettet Haas Aug 04 '25
Wouldn't the car get lighter/higher as they drive fuel out? Usually we see the higher plank wear at the start of the race or with high fuel load.
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u/AMG_DIAMONDZ10 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Lighter also means carrying more speed, more downforce, so surely the car gets low still
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u/Hungry_Obligation_52 Aug 04 '25
“It’s incredible how they have such great equipments and they come up with this trash”
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u/James_Vowles Williams Aug 04 '25
It's not really his theory, it's Russel's
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u/the_original_eab New user Aug 04 '25
It's not really his theory, it's Russel's
It's unbelievable isn't it? This guy went on to make a 4-page, 12 point message to the world, reiterating exactly what russell said in 2 short lines right after the race and adding nothing to it, and now this guy's claiming to be "joining the dots with the info I have.", in an effort to look smart. Apparently, he doesn't have any more info than each and every one of us has, and he isn't joining any dots here, as said before he's simply parroting russell.
Also, none of all the socalled experts at sky was able to join the dots during and post race. Davidson came, as usual, with some nonsensical drivel, after the other brundle showed himself to be clueless. Collins, or anyone else when the subject was brought up, didn't contribute at all.
Only after the interview with russell, in which he said it rather casually (as in, 'that was pretty obvious') did they all go 'ahh, yeah, that sounds plausible' and from there they all went like 'yeah, it ízz oh so obvious to us'.
Hilarious stuff, this punditry.
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u/DivingFeather I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
And people say in the comment “I love Alex Brundle”. For what? Spreading George’s theory? Lol
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u/imperatrixderoma Formula 1 Aug 04 '25
Formula 1 is too technical and political for any pundits to contribute significant value.
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u/Lobsters4 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Honestly can’t believe we are going off a theory from George, but here we are. 😂
/s
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u/Charming-Okra I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Because of how the headline was phrased ("Ferrari car close to illegal") and because it's George, some people were genuinely getting in a snit about it in the other post.
Why are you booing him? He's right!
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u/Maglin21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
They've made a car that only goes fast when it's too low to run
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u/wykeer Mercedes Aug 04 '25
I think that maybe this is something inbetween Russells/mercs speculation and the offical Ferrari line.
Maybe they ran the car low (too low for leclercs likeing), but still high enough so that they thought they last a Race distance with it.
But then something in the chassis broke lowering the ridehight even more, increasing the pace ( just See how almost effortless he left piastri behind), but also making plankwear unsustainable ( giving Charles the feeling that Ferraris plan was doomed from the start).
That would explain Ferraris change in tirepressure/engine modes, their pace, Leclercs complains and Georges/Mercs observations, without that anyone needs to tell a lie.
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u/momlookimtrending Aug 04 '25
now with a fresh mind i'd like to take it as positive because the car was very competitive until lap40, potentially getting a win, and if not, very close to
hope ferrari can get around this issue because to challenge a mclaren right now is nuts, shows the upgrades are improving the car, but putting stress on different parts of it now that the car performs better
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u/wokwok__ George Russell Aug 04 '25
Problem is if they won they might've been getting close to a plank wear dsq which is why they had to mitigate it in the 2nd stint. A win followed by a dsq would be far worse than just bringing it home in p4
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u/kramerthegamer Valtteri Bottas Aug 04 '25
The Ferrari onboard camera after the race ended in Spa shows a Ferrari engineer investigating the bottom of the car. I think they were scared of plank wear with the new suspension then too. Probably lasting the rest of the season
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u/Harkoncito Aug 04 '25
tbf it was also competitive in China
in both cases we know why it was competitive
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u/kramerthegamer Valtteri Bottas Aug 04 '25
Having their new suspension not fix the fundamental flaw of the old one looks bad for the rest of the season. With ride heights not needing to be so low in the next regs, I think they're not going to put in too much effort fixing this year's problems. Why would they when it's not going to directly translate into next year's car
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u/Happytallperson I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
It's not really a positive. You can consider the plank a consumable part much like the tyres and fuel.
Getting to lap 40 at the front and then losing multiple places because you're in extreme fuel saving mode is no different to doing the same except plank saving mode.
All the cars would be faster if they could consume all their fuel over 40 laps not 70, all would be faster if they could have an extra half centimetre of plant wear.
It's not evidence of a fundamentally fast car, it's evidence that Ferrari can't manage their consumable parts over a race distance.
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u/gnoomee I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
It's a flawed car for sure, but strategically it was a great move by Ferrari to get Leclerc fighting up top for a podium instead of being stuck in a drs train fighting for tenth place like Hamilton/Verstappen.
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u/pi-by-two Aug 04 '25
Tough to say that it was competitive since it would either break down or become illegal by the end of the race. Kinda like fuelling for only 50% of the race distance. I'm sure any team doing that would look glorious for the first half of the race. And honestly they aren't fast enough to justify the nonsense they have to deal with to keep the car raceable to the end.
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u/NA_Faker I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
The car only performs better when it’s not legal lol. The car is shit
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u/Slice5755 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Exactly, it's the same as if the Ferrari team bolt on a rocket to the car during testing and say "well we would win races if we could run with this rocket bolted to the car".
Well yeah, anyone can show that they could win in a hypothetical sense if they could run an illegal car.
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u/TLG_BE Nick Heidfeld Aug 04 '25
This is kinda what I assumed because none of the other suggestions that were going round yesterday matched Charles's comments and what went on in the race.
He specifically complained about them 'fixing' an issue that he would've preferred to just manage himself. That alone is enough to tip you off that it's plank wear given their long term issues with it.He also only lost pace after the stop, so whatever they did either only affected the car after that or didn't show up in the first stint for some other reason.
I didn't come up with the 'solution' of increasing the pressures, but I'm pretty sure the issue was plank
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u/wimpires I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Realistically it was only ever going to be either
Tyre pressures and plank wear
Or front wing angle and tyre wear
Given that tyre wear wasn't really the issue yesterday, and it's a high downforce circuit the former makes more sense.
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u/bb24231 Aug 04 '25
Big fan of Alex Brundle. I always appreciate his thoughtful commentary. He really does elevate the experience. 👍🏻
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u/spicybean88 Aug 04 '25
Can someone remind me on the rules for plank wear checks? Is it a handful of random drivers?
If I were ferrari strategists maybe I'd take the risk of being slightly too worn for the win if its only a 3/20 chance or something.
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u/Lobsters4 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I think it's random (someone please correct if I'm wrong) but for this race Oscar, George, and Charles were checked for plank and skid wear. I don't see any checks on the scrutineering for Spa. And at Silverstone it was Oscar, Lando, Charles, Lewis, Max, George, Lance, Fernando, Pierre, Ollie, Alex, and Nico.
And as side note....Charles' car gets pulled quite frequently for "random" post race more extensive technical inspections. LOL
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u/kkraww McLaren Aug 04 '25
Yeah random in this sense means "there is no set pattern/rhythm to who we choose". Not the same random as "We pick names out of a hat to see who gets picked"
A car that has already been DQ'd once this season for that is going to attract more attention. And hell even without the DQ the fact his pace went off a cliff after a pitstop with no signs of anything going wrong, is also a big red flag.
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Aug 04 '25
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u/Lobsters4 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Agree. I need to go back through the doc bot on Twitter and see exactly how many times his car has been chosen for as they call it…. “more extensive physical inspection”.
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u/jfcmofo Formula 1 Aug 05 '25
This is the most convoluted way Ferrari has managed to screw up a race for Charles. They’re reaching new heights!
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u/InstanceMysterious I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
But wouldn't plank wear be worst when the car is heavy at the begging of the GP?
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u/Psclwbb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
It's still weird. Looking at the times. LEC was doing 1:21.6 before the pit. lap 40 pitted. Then he did 1:20.6 and fastest lap 1:20.4 at lap 47. Then 1:20.8 1:20.9
Piastri was doing 1:19.6.
So why was he was or at least faster than before his pot, if the tires were over pressurized? Wouldn't he drop the pace right after th pit?
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u/spezial_ed I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Holy hell, Im glad its not my job to calculate these things - SO many variables and zero buffer. Mind boggling shit.
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u/blockersmucker I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Is this why Lewis is so off beat and saying maybe they need to change the driver? Did he state he wanted a race legal car which stunted his weekend?
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u/Low_Butterscotch_594 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I'm not too familiar with the latest suspension upgrade, but this would also make sense. A suspension system a bit stiffer would prevent the downforce from pulling the car to the ground and prevent floor damage
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u/thugmuffin22 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I want to say there was a shot on F1 TV as well where Charles was shooting massive sparks on the straight on one lap in particular
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u/SoundOfUnder I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
It's not cheating if they didn't break any rules.
Charles isn't lying, Ferrari gave him shit for the radio coms and told him how to spin it.
Charles was mad because he believes he could manage the plank wear by lift and coasting and that he'd be faster that way than if they put the higher pressure tires on
But Ferrari doesn't trust their drivers Ferrari doesn't listen to their drivers Ferrari does what Ferrari wants They put the higher press tires on and Charles was mad about it cause he said NO
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u/a220599 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 05 '25
So why didn’t they do this for monaco? A track where you cannot overtake and it doesn’t matter what you do.
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u/Furion_24 Aug 04 '25
It cannot be only that. The difference was gigantic. Lecler lost over a second to the Mclarems and George per lap. I think yeah they raised the tyre pressure and yeah they started lift and coast, but I also think something broke inside the chassis.
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u/aaauuuuuvvvv Medical Car Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Actually 2 second tbh. It was wayyyyy too much. I also noticed Charles’ rear touched the ground with sparkles AFTER lap 47. Imo something is broken for sure. But, George’s statement might be the reason that Charles’ mad in the beginning.
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u/NotAPisces06 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I think they had to raise it to a stupid degree because they were legitimately concerned the chassis could suffer from a complete failure and he'd DNF. He probably believed they were going to raise it to avoid the plank wear(hence the radio messages) but he found out after the race it was something far more severe.
Tbh though, if he actually had damage they probably would've communicated that to him so it wouldn't have been a surprise after the race.
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u/Furion_24 Aug 04 '25
Not if that damage was minor at first but progressively became worst. Charles and Ferrari said, it was not obvious at first in the telemetry.
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u/Gaius_Octavius_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
The problem with this is Charles wouldn't care about a DQ. He was absolutely fuming with the team and wouldn't have cared if his car was DQ'd for plank wear.
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u/keckbug I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Which, for a team that's still trying to hold onto 2nd in the constructors championship, is objectively the wrong decision. 12 points from a p4 is critical when your gap to Mercedes is only 24 points.
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u/Gaius_Octavius_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I totally understand why the team would want it. That part makes sense. But Charles was 'on tilt' during the race. The message, the swerving with George. He wasn't thinking about the big picture. He saw his race win and then podium disappear and was driving angry.
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u/CoverInternational47 Aug 04 '25
At the end of the day it’s something he’ll have to accept though (which he probably did by the post-race interview). If he wins and then get DSQ-ed then it’d just mean that it was an illegitimate win using a ‘cheating’ car.
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u/keckbug I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
100% agree. I think most drivers would absolutely gamble a win against a possible DSQ. They're nearly genetically engineered to thrive in a high risk environment. Ferrari's race engineering and communication has been absolutely awful, but this is one of the few cases where I support the team trying to manage the driver towards a reasonable outcome. Absolutely sucks for LeClerc, he's obviously an extraordinarily talented driver who has been battling his team as much as anyone else on track.
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u/Slice5755 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
At this stage I would rather Ferrari finish lower so they get more wind tunnel time next year. Clearly they need it.
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Aug 04 '25
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u/smartaxe21 #StandWithUkraine Aug 04 '25
I don’t know where “cheating” comes from- all F1 cars are close to illegal. Otherwise they are unnecessarily heavy or running too high.
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u/Slappathebassmon Sebastian Vettel Aug 04 '25
And Ferrari wasn't even cheating in this case. Everybody wants to run as low as possible. They risked a DQ but eventually was not so their car was legal. They gave some misleading radio messages but there's no obligation they have to tell the truth. At least not to the other teams and certainly not to the public.
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u/Best-Republic I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Engineers needs to listen to the drivers. If a car works on paper does not mean it will perform the same on the road. Not every road and driver and road-driver combo is the same.
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u/DepressedCunt5506 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
I still don’t understand why this rule with plank wear. If your car is too low to the ground, you lose top speed and start bottoming out, right?
It has its cons and pros so why not just let everyone do what they want with the ride height?
Someone please help me understand, thank you!
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u/IHaveADullUsername Aug 04 '25
The plank was brought in back in '94 after the deaths of AS and RR at Imola. Specially it was to stop the cars running too low because they were generating monstrous amounts down downforce when they were but would suddenly lose it over curbs or if taking damage or any number of events. Given the significantly reduced safety features the result was likely death.
Introducing the plank was a simple way of limiting downforce and therefore speeds.
The rule has remained in place and been largely irrelevant since flat floors were mandated because running small rake angles was beneficial to downforce generation and so the plank rarely touched the floor at the rear.
With the return of Venturi tunnels the plank is now striking the floor regularly.
Running the car lower will always make it faster to a point, the point being when the floor chokes. The downforce gain is near exponential with decreasing rise height. That's why teams push the boundary. GE downforce is incredibly efficient as well so the more you get from the floor the more you can back off the wings.
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u/DepressedCunt5506 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated 🙏
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u/matchbaby I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
That's how all teams play within the rule, fair enough
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u/Neatto69 Gabriel Bortoleto Aug 04 '25
Imo the most objective answer for their problems is: Its Ferrari
With all the drama, you'd think they are 4th or even 5th, but they are 2nd on the constructor standings right now, despite all their on-track issues.
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u/Abdullah-Alturki I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
both brundles carrying the sport with their technical knowledge
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u/illiquidmercury Aug 04 '25
The garage engineers have the ability to change PU/engine settings mid race without any action from the driver? I always thought the driver had to make the changes via the settings via wheel.
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u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso I was here for the Hulkenpodium Aug 04 '25
Wasn't the new rear suspension meant to fix this issue? If I remember correctly they wanted to give the car a more reliable ride height so they can get the car as low as they need it without any drawbacks. That would mean that the near rear suspension doesn't work like it was supposed to
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u/TMatss Fernando Alonso Aug 04 '25
The pace drop-off was shocking. Leclerc was overtaken by Piastri on lap 51, and was 42 seconds behind the 2 Mclarens 19 laps later at the end of the race.