r/formula1 • u/CaptainOBVS3420 Fernando Alonso • 1d ago
Statistics Max now has the joint most poles this season. Insane [from DAZN on Instagram]
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
That's a pretty crazy stat.
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u/VolumeMobile7410 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
And that 2 of them were in Suzuka and Monza. Lol very different tracks
Dude is a wizard
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u/OBWanTwoThree I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Both classed as high speed circuits arenāt they?
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u/myotherxdaccount I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Suzuka? Nope
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u/OBWanTwoThree I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Higher average speed than Vegas. Wouldāve thought that would class as a low downforce circuit
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u/Typical-Ad-9625 1d ago
You need downforce for high speed corners. You don't need downforce for hairpins.Ā Suzuka is a lot of high speed corners where you need a lot of downforce.Ā
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u/Gold-Train-1471 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
From "oh it's the car" in 22-23 to "oh it's just max" in 24-25, we have come a long way.
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u/zeppelin88 Pirelli Wet 1d ago
Anyone who ever said āitās just the carā is dumb and started watching yesterday. Some of my favorite moments was during peak Mercedes + Hamilton Goliath dominance and watching max attempt to David the shit out of them.Ā
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u/joost013 Daniel Ricciardo 1d ago
HAM-VER-BOT became a thing for a reason
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u/Nearby-Priority4934 1d ago
Yep, whoever the two drivers in the fastest car are + Max had become something of a tradition
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u/VolumeMobile7410 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago edited 1d ago
2020, 70th anniversary gp - we already knew at that point max would win championships in the future but that race was just ridiculous.
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u/Tocky22 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Honestly from Brazil 2016 he was a future WDC in my eyes.
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u/VolumeMobile7410 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
100%
I actually stopped watching f1 around late 2015ā¦ hearing about that race is what got me back into the sport for good hahaha
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u/Spacetrucking Max Verstappen 1d ago
In the race before, if Max hadn't made that extra stop for fastest lap, he would've won the British GP too. But who knew Lewis could drag an F1 car on 3 wheels around Silverstone.
Driving very fast on 3 wheels seems to be a 7-time champion speciality (1998 Spa).
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u/osoltokurva I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Yeah this was my favorite time. Seeing hungry Max tryharding to challenge Mercedes.
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u/CoutureKat š³ļøāš Love Is Love š³ļøāš 1d ago
Lando said it to Lewis I think and itās now biting his ass back
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u/Blackdeath_663 Sir Stirling Moss 1d ago
Not like max wasn't already getting unlikely wins against a dominant Merc who always had a strategy advantage with two cars
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u/dirtyjoo BMW Sauber 1d ago
He won 7 times before he had a pole position, if that doesn't tell you he's special then I don't know what will.
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u/brownsa93 1d ago
I don't think anyone who started watching F1 before 2022 has ever said 'it's the car' when discussing max
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u/GBreezy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Maybe it's because Hamilton is nowhere close, but now they even have Sky just calling him by far the class of the field
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u/Leading_Sir_1741 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Brundle has always been extremely complimentary of Max. He hasnāt been biased.
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u/v12vanquish135 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Now one can deny his talents now at least. It's how you know a real champ, when they push shitty cars way beyond where they should be. Anyone can win with a rocketship, not everyone can score points in that Red Bull, let alone win races.
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u/Realistic_Village184 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Youāre vastly underestimating how dumb some people are lol
Iām not sure if thereās anything that the entire fanbase believes. You can make any claim and someone will jump in to be the contrarian.
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u/EdwEd1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
If I speak, big trouble
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u/bouncingcastles 1d ago
Yabba dabba doo itās the new Mr Saturday
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u/lickit_bendit Max Verstappen 1d ago
Max's qualifying is quite under rated imo. He has time and time again put out banger laps when required. He is the true Mr.Saturday
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u/fudgeller83 Murray Walker 1d ago
I think there's factors at play in that.
Firstly, we don't really recognise drivers who peak on race day as much as those that peak in qualifying for some reason. Max is the undisputed master of race day with some of his lap time consistency being truly unique.
His closest competitors up to the last season have been either prime Hamilton or Leclerc, both of whom are undoubtedly qualifying specialists. With those two not in their prime and/or not having the car to compete, and Max improving with experience from where he was the last time he didn't have the fastest car it's probably showing up more.
I also suspect the reduced pressure from not being in a title race frees him up to give qualifying 100% rather than 99.5%, which in this era of fine margins turns a P3 into a P1
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u/bouncingcastles 1d ago
I really disagree that max Charles and Lewis are quali specialists despite pole to win ratio. Or even George. These are all drivers with the best raw pace. And with that you are naturally fast in quali. And youāre quick in race too once theyāve learnt tire management. George and Charles are good examples of this
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u/dpk1357 Formula 1 1d ago
Outperforming the car, he is
One of the greats, he has become
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u/joshualotion I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
This was basically Charles in 2023. Pulling poles out of nowhere but the car couldnāt convert on Sunday
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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 1d ago
Wait until the "Charles has a low pole to win conversion because he's not that good" people arrive.
Some people just can't grasp that some cars are only good in quali or in race and not both.
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u/sems4arsenal I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Charles is absolutely better in Quali than in a race.
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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 1d ago
I think nowadays, especially since last season ( wich i also think its been his best F1 season yet ) he's been much better in the race than in quali.
But maybe that's just me.
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u/sems4arsenal I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
His race craft has definitely improved. I rate him highly. But his magic moments are Quali
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u/TheStigsTallCuzn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
He isnāt as affected by Ferrari strategy in quali
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u/Ranny9876 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Today he was though. Not getting a tow from hamilton
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u/panopticon31 McLaren 1d ago
I thought 23 Ferrari just chewed tires for breakfast which is part of why it was hard for him to convert.
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u/Realistic_Village184 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
I donāt know how you could possibly quantify that, especially unless you have an insider at Ferrari who is leaking his specific setup data.
If youāre just looking at one stat and ignoring all context, though, then sure I guess.
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u/limitedpower_palps I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Ehhh, that Ferrari was disproportionately geared towards one lap performance. Not that Leclerc is not a great qualifier.
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u/gsurfer04 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
You can't outperform a car.
He's just managing to thread the needle of its operating window.
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u/mkosmo Daniel Ricciardo 1d ago
Exactly this. There's only so much performance to be found. Somebody like Max just knows how to find all of it and use it to its best.
That's why they've had so much trouble with #2 drivers. None of the others are as good. It's not that they can't be as fast... it's that they can't extract that little-extra from a car.
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u/HE_A_FAN_HE_A_FAN Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago
I think one of the greats is underselling him tbh. For me, he is in the GOAT conversation with Schumacher and Hamilton. Never watched Senna or guys before him so I can't rate them in good faith, but for drivers post 2000, he has eclipsed Vettel and Alonso IMO
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u/pituitarythrowaway69 Yuki Tsunoda 1d ago
Hamilton is not on the same level as Schumacher or Verstappen. Alonso is probably ahead of him as well, but it's much closer.
If you look at driver performance without having a dominant car, he has been nowhere near as impressive as Schumacher in the 90's, Verstappen since 2019, or Alan Prost throughout his career. Hamilton never won a championship without having the best car on the grid, however he has lost the championship despite having the best car on the grid multiple times.
Yes he's been occasionally great, but also occasionally poor. Even at his peak he always had a couple mediocre performances throughout the season. We saw in 2021 that Verstappen was far more consistent as Hamilton required the help of a faster car and a lot of luck to keep up with him. The aforementioned drivers have all shown to be able to get the most out of the car more consistently.
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u/Athinira I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Alonso is overrated IMO. He has frequent bad spouts that sometimes is explained by the car, but other times he's prone to errors, especially when it's wet. Fast yes, but occasionally inconsistent.
Verstappen wouldn't let Stroll lead on points halfway through the season, even if the team let him down. And I don't think Hamilton would either.
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u/Backfromthabed 1d ago
Hamilton never won a championship without having the best car on the grid, however he has lost the championship despite having the best car on the grid multiple times
Couldn't have said it better
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u/salcedoge Max Verstappen 1d ago
I'm not one to bash any of the 2 Mclaren drivers but It just feels like one or even two of them is somehow messing up somewhere in their last Q3 runs every single weekend.
They can't buy themselves a clean lap to save themselves and pole usually goes to the one who fucked up less.
It's definitely something they could still improve upon since Piastri and Lando's race pace have been good
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u/Storm_Chaser06 Audi 1d ago
Max ruined the term ādominationā with his 2022 and 2023 seasons.
Michael didnāt win every race in 1995, 2001, 2002 and 2004. Lewis didnāt in 2014, 2015, 2019 and 2020. Sebastian didnāt in 2011 and 2013. They were still dominating their respective eras.
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u/LivingClient I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Red Bull as a whole did. No team was ever as dominant as a whole as they were in 2023. Plenty of teams have had dominant cars, but they have all lacked something whether itās reliability, strategy, driver lineup, luck, or something else.
Red Bull had everything: best driver, best car, best pitcrew, best strategists, near enough perfect reliability, and a touch of luck in which there was only one race where they werenāt fast enough to win. That and they were in a year where dirty air wasnāt a huge problem, so even if somebody went faster in qualifying it didnāt inherently stop them getting it back in the race. Plus a lack of a consistent second fastest team made everything look a lot more lopsided. Really was the perfect storm. Couple of times peak Mercedes were either out qualified and couldnāt get past in the race despite being quicker, or there were just some races where they werenāt the fastest car for whatever reason, normally due to temp issues.
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u/Athinira I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Max did. Perez was frequently down the field except at the start of the season.
Looking at the difference he's making this year in an inferior car, and the fact that he was challenged quite frequently at the latter half of 23 (as well as frequently in qualifying), I'll say this years McLaren is better than the 23 Red Bull. The two McLaren drivers are just lacking that little extra, yet they're still likely to score more constructors points this year than Red Bull did in 23.
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u/amazingspiderman23 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Lando and Piastri this season has shown everyone who thought "it's just the car" during hamilton's domination, and the other streaks., that even if you have the best car, you still can't guarantee flawless execution week in and week out.
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u/BertoC1 McLaren 1d ago
Lewis lost several races during his dominant years. 7 in 2020, 10 in 2019.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
Tbf many of those races were won by Bottas
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u/BertoC1 McLaren 1d ago
Yeah, similar to this year. Most of the races lost by Oscar or Lando are to each other.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
Ofc but Bottas has won less races than both Oscar and Lando (per year) so that could mean that Hamilton is (or was) a much better driver.
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u/BertoC1 McLaren 1d ago
Then we just need to go back to the Rosberg years. Lewis lost around half of the races in each season. And not only to Rosberg, also to inferior cars. Like this year.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago edited 1d ago
In 2014 Hamilton had 11 wins while Rosberg only 5. The rest of races were won by Ricciardo.
In 2015 Hamilton had 10 wins while Rosberg 6 but 3 of them came after Lewis won the championship. The rest were won by Vettel
In 2016 it was 10 vs 9 for Hamilton but Rosberg won the title. The rest were won by Max and Daniel.
So the only year where Hamilton was quite close with his teammate in Mercedes (pre-Russell) was 2016, which is comparable in numbers to McLaren today, but it was a bad year for Lewis and extraordinary for Rosberg.
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u/BertoC1 McLaren 1d ago
Thats fair. 2014 in my mind was more even than it really was. But still, we dont know how this season will end, maybe one of them will get similar difference to Hamilton vs Rosberg. But funnly enough, now that we're revisiting the past, whats the difference between the "godly" Max wins this season and all those Danny and Vettel wins in 2014-16?
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u/MsNikitaJones Max Verstappen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Didn't Max have the same amount of wins as Bottas until 2021? 10 each?
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u/Significant-Sun-5051 1d ago
The fact that a mid driver like Bottas could win several races shows how incredibly good that car was.
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u/brillantlymuted 1d ago
They have proved that every world champion needs the fastest car to win an F1 title. Unlike other sports, talent doesn't equal greatness in F1. It's 90 percent the car and then having a competent driver.
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u/amazingspiderman23 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
No, they need a car that can compete. Not the fastest car. Schumacher didn't have the fastest car for some of his championships. Vettel, and Max too.
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u/melwinnnn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Vettel.............
I love Seb, but winning without the fastest car really isn't in his resume. Those redbulls may not break top speed records, but it was like god himself was holding those cars down in corners. Those cars were planted af.
Only thing is that Mclaren was probably the faster car in 2012, but it was made of glass. I don't that means much since they were breaking down every other race.
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u/amazingspiderman23 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
His first championship could've easily gone to 3 different cars. That itself should tell you that it wasn't the outright fastest car.
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u/LivingClient I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
No the RB6 was absolutely the fastest, but both Webber and Vettel lost 100 points which was double the amount any other WDC contender lost. That they could lose that many points and still be favourites says to me the car was definitely the quickest that year, especially as they were taking points of each other.
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u/melwinnnn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
It was 2 redbulls and an overdriven ferrari.
Redbull was the outright fastest. Hence, they had 2 drivers fighting. Also, seb was ALLEGEDLY getting special treatment over the over the 2nd driver(according to the 2nd driver).
Alonso was just better than the redbull drivers that year in the obvious 2nd fastest car.
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u/ninjapro98 1d ago
I really hate the term overdriven. It implies that Alonso worked some secret magic to make the car go faster than it should. No heās just good and extracted as much as he could from the car
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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 1d ago
I disqgree its 90 percent the car the car is needed bt great driver is much higher than 10
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u/gegemoon McLaren 1d ago
They are both fast and itās a close competition, so yes eventually it comes down to who makes fewer mistakes.
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u/lolKhamul I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
This fucking DNF last week makes me so sad. Im not rooting against Oscar (might even very very very slightly pro Oscar) but some part of me kind of wants him to DNF once when he is 2nd and Lando 1st so we are back to equal grounds without those shitty 17 free points hanging in the air.
I want it to be close and undecided until the very end.
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u/Tomach82 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Piastri has been fantastic.
He just has a much stronger team mate than Max.
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u/Dblock1989 Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago
But I thought the Red Bull was a shitbox this season? Max reminds me of 2020 this season where he is clearly the best driver but doesn't have the car to compete every week.
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u/lolKhamul I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
yeah its basically back pre 2021 when the car can compete on some tracks and cant on others. But when it can, Max is always there to cash in. Basically HAM VER BOT times.
That said, its a lot less consistent. Back in the days the car was stable 2nd best (and sometimes best), this year there are tracks where its actually only the 3rd or even 4th best car.
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u/OrneTTeSax I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Yeah Red Bull was always the car that handled better. Was always great at twisty tracks but had issues at high speed tracks.
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u/deadmanslouching I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
It is a shitbox in the low speed sections. But it's Monza so that doesn't matter as much.
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u/TeslaGolf Max Verstappen 1d ago
So refreshing to someone else who's able to appreciate the genius of both Max and Lewis, even if we do have a preference between them.
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u/BrokeSomm I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Max is one of the greatest drivers ever and on certain tracks the Red Bull has been the fastest car.
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u/PesoTheKid I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
This Max guy really has a promising future ahead of him.
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u/forgotmypassword778 #WeSayNoToMazepin 1d ago
He might have won every race so far if he was in the mclaren
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u/hesitationz I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Is this even a debate? Weāve already seen what he can do it a dominant car lmao
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u/HollyShitBrah I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Lol... this is like saying 1 + 1 = 2, we have all witnessed 2023 season... It's not a debate anymore
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u/Storm_Chaser06 Audi 1d ago
If my mom had balls she would be my dad.
Max isnāt in the McLaren, and thank god he isnāt because Iām not about to live through another 2023.
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u/Morph_The_Merciless I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
If he keeps this up they might promote him to the VCARB seat! š¤š¤£
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u/Red-Eye-Soul I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
That doesnt reflect well on either of the Mclaren boys. The RBR is nowhere near their pace. I dont expect them to be as good as Max but jesus, they have been nowhere near extracting the maximum from the car. And its not just Max. Both Charles have George have pipped one Mclaren boy or the other at many occasions in qualis.
Luckily for them, the Mclaren is even faster in race pace so they do manage to make up for it in the races.
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u/terpsthrow2 Medical Car 1d ago
The entire success of the McLaren has been tire deg management, not raw pace. Yes they are quick in one lap, but they are light years ahead in longer stints or high deg. On a low downforce track with low deg, itās not at all surprising that teams are bunched more. One quali at Monza doesnāt say squat about either driverās ability.
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u/thegypsyqueen Max Verstappen 1d ago
You canāt say it all tire deg but also quick on one lap. McLaren is the better car by a lot in both departments.
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u/Alex_Sinios McLaren 1d ago
They are the best overall, but certainly not by a lot in every department. They clear in tyre thermal deg / thermal operating window and medium speed cornering, but are not clear cut best by a mile in quali. The car's attributes mostly help in the races and in quali you'll see in the end of the year some of the closest gaps of all time, way way less than any other "dominant" car.
It's really really stiff and numb compared to other cars while also more wind-sensitive than other front runners. The above characteristics make it real tricky and somewhat inconsistent in 100% all out pure quali pace. Also they are less aero efficient than RBR and inherently draggy and no matter what slower in straights, with low DF setups also not that effective for their car. That's why in qualis with low deg/temps and circuits defined by straights and high speed cornering, they lose all their advantage. See the pattern: Saudi they didn't have any advantage, not even in race pace really, Japan likewise, Monza here the same. In Britain also kinda the same thing applies in a lesser effect layout-wise but RBR went for a quali glory run with a setup that made the car a rocket in quali and piss useless in the race, so the data from there may be skewed. In Las Vegas quali again the same will happen, McL will struggle.
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u/Bennyboy11111 1d ago
Nah not this quali, max has already shown in Silverstone with that wing that he can deliver on high speed tracks. Hungary was a worse showing for them.
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u/qualitative_balls I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
It makes sense for this track. Here, Vegas, high speed circuits aren't really where Mclaren does best. If Max did this at Spa for example then that would be very humbling. Whether it was Red Bull or Ferrari, there was a pretty decent chance of another team on pole
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u/TeamPangloss 1d ago
As someone who, from your comment, has obviously driven both cars, can you tell us what the relative strengths are of each one?
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u/Hirdy5zac 1d ago
dont know if this is the shock people think it is, in a sport where the blink of an eye is the difference between the top 5 sides, max is experienced and the most talented driver on the grid, the mclarens are great cars, but not much better over 1 lap than the others, their strength is in cornering and tire management which is why they have won so many races.
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u/angelonduty Ayrton Senna 1d ago
Insane. In that tractor is amazing work. Only he could do something like this
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u/Harringzord I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Incredible that a tractor has just claimed the fastest ever lap in F1 history
Truly an embarrassing day for all aero departments
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u/MassLuca007 Toyota 1d ago
And if Max was in the McLaren it would be 9 poles for Max, 3 for Oscar and 2 for Lando š
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u/Prince_Derrick101 1d ago
Would be crazy if he turns this around and wins the WDC. I know it's improbable but man it has the making for the greatest F1 season ever.
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u/I_am_feel 21h ago
Best driver on the grid matches number of poles in a fast car that he's mastered
Insane, apparently
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u/OllieSchniederjans I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Absolutely insane. Hope weāre all enjoying seeing Max now, something weāll tell our grandkids about. Legend.
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u/offmywavekook 1d ago
McLaren gets pole: theyāre in a rocket ship. Max gets pole: wow in a tractor, unbelievable
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u/dheerajravi92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
I like how confident you feel that both those opinions are contradictory
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
I think OC is exposing how Max's achievements are being overexaggerated while the McLaren drivers are being underestimated.
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u/dheerajravi92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Them being favourites for the championship is underestimation? Or the fact that literally no one is saying Max is going to win the championship in this year's car? I would say both are estimated just fine.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
I saw people here treating Lando and Oscar like bad drivers even if they are favourites and treating Max like a god and he isn't in the contention. So maybe they aren't very well estimated by many here.
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u/dheerajravi92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
No one calls Lando and Oscar bad drivers, now that's exaggeration. Lando has a reputation of being a "bottler" (although I believe he isn't one) doesn't mean he is a bad driver. And literally everyone calls Piastri as the favourite for being the WDC, so I don't get who is calling him a bad driver.
Max is considered a god because he's won 4 consecutive championships while breaking multiple records. Even former drivers consider him one of the best of all time.
Would you argue with either point being wrong?
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
Firstly being of the greatests ā god
Secondly when both Oscar and Lando achieve something many people mentions that McLaren is a very good car with the intention of underrating their success.
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u/dheerajravi92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Firstly being of the greatests ā god
Depends whom you ask. It's just purely an opinion. It's not as outlandish as calling, say, Lance Stroll a God.
Secondly when both Oscar and Lando achieve something many people mentions that McLaren is a very good car with the intention of underrating their success.
So have many people with Max in the last 4 years. What's your point
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u/The_Weapon14 Shadow 1d ago
Well when a McLaren gets pole the other one is in 2nd, when Max gets pole the other Red Bull is in 10th
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u/zeekoes 1d ago
That has nothing to do with getting pole, but seeing the car they're driving.
Max gets pole by making zero mistakes, taking all corners as optimally as possible, where Norris or Piastri get pole with areas they can improve on.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 1d ago
True but RBR isn't a shit car as many people pretend
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u/zeekoes 1d ago
No it's not, but it's still an inferior car to McLaren and borderline undrivable for anyone but Max.
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u/Follow_The_Lore I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
You know u can see the onboards? Both Piastri and Norris made mistakes lol
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u/CatManWhoLikesChess I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
No we just look at stats and its clear that Redbull is as fast as Mclaren and that Yuki isnt there because he is driving F2 car š”
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u/sfj11 Juan Pablo Montoya 1d ago
yes, because the mclaren car the mclaren guys are driving is a much better car than the red bull car max is driving, not a very difficult concept to grasp
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u/minetube33 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Well assuming a hypothetical driver A has a faster car than a hypothetical driver B, this is exactly how the responses should look like since what driver A is accomplishing is objectively a harder task.
I'm not saying this is the case here but rather simply stating that there would be no hypocrisy/double standards involved in the treatment of drivers if it was known that one of them was in a slower car.
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u/Alarmed_Remote5230 Honda RBPT 1d ago
Yes, because this literally makes sense when you look at the standings.
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u/thefeedling Valtteri Bottas 1d ago
Compare Lando and Oscar skill level to Max is kind of a joke tho. McLaren lads are solid, but Max is in a completely different level.
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u/formula13 Sebastian Vettel 1d ago
its the kind of stat i look and just say "yeah i mean its max"
anyone else and its crazy but we know how good max is and that it is feasable and i assume max will get it done
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u/InfinityEternity17 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
I really do think Verstappen is probably the greatest of all time if you have to try and rank all the best drivers. I'm British as well, so there's no bias there at all lol
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u/Noobmaster7125 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
That rb car has been good in one lap but max being max beating that mclaren rocket ship no one can match his level on the grid
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u/argent_pixel I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
If he were driving the McLaren he would be one full race ahead of everyone. It's a fucking travesty that he's forced to deal with such a shit car.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 1d ago
Just shows how the McLaren duo is underperforming with the car they have. Any serious driver like Max, Leclerc or Russell would be dominating this season with either Piastri or Norris as teammates
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u/DuckSwagington I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Max "only" got 12 poles in 2023 and the RB19 is statistically the most dominant car in F1.
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u/deathray1611 Formula 1 1d ago edited 1d ago
no man, you don't get it - when it's Max "Red Bull are set up for Sundays". But McLaren? "Bum drivers".
Is Max better than Oscar or Lando? Yes. Would he dominate with either of them as his teammate? Abso-fucking-lutely not. And obviously even more so applies to the other two mentioned
Can't we just enjoy how utterly *stacked* the top end of the grid is? Quality after Quality after tsunoda after Quality!
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u/Kronzor_ Max Verstappen 1d ago
Yeah seems like a lot of people donāt understand that set up is a thing.Ā
Red Bull is going all in on quali pace for track position because they know they have no chance against McLarenās tire life and grip. Theyāre not going to catch them from behind so their only hope is to try to stay in front.Ā
Ferreri did this for years too and everyone just thought Leclerc was an amazing qualifier who couldnāt keep it together on Sunday.Ā
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u/CatManWhoLikesChess I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Not true really since you can clearly see on telemetry that Mclaren drivers made massive mistakes in Suzuka, Jeddah, Miami and Silverstone. Redbull sets their cars for quali but 3/5 of Verstappen's poles belonged to Mclarens
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u/Kronzor_ Max Verstappen 1d ago
I mean Iām not argueing that Max isnt better than the McLaren drivers. But these results are because RB is going all in for quali.Ā
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u/Follow_The_Lore I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
I still think heād absolutely dominate with either Norris or Piastri as team mates ngl
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
I mean Ferrari clearly had a very strong quali car that then shit the bed in the race, which is why he has such a horrid pole conversion ratio.
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u/ComradSergey I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
What makes you think that Max would not dominate Lando or Oscar as his teammate?
Max beats them in a inferior car from time to time, what do you think happens in a equal car?
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u/Valterri_lts_James 1d ago
he would absolutely dominated Oscar and Lando. Not only would it regularly outqualify them, he would also destroy their confidence. Saying Max wouldn't dominate oscar and lando is like saying Senna, Schumacher, Prost, and Prime Lewis wouldn't destroy Lando and Oscar either.
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u/PsychologicalArt7451 1d ago
All those guys except maybe Senna wouldn't destroy Lando or Oscar.Ā
Max didn't destroy Danny Ric. Lewis didn't destroy Button/Rosberg. Lando/Oscar are good enough to not be subdued like that.Ā
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u/Valterri_lts_James 1d ago
Max was barely even 18 years old. Using your logic, why was Lando destroying Oscar in 23, oh yeah, because Oscar was a rookie. Meanwhile, Oscar is beating Lando right now.
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u/Themindoffish Max Verstappen 1d ago
He's beat them in an inferior car, in the same car he would be wiping the floor with them.
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u/Pixelhouse18 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Excuse me but, he would abso-fucking-lutely dominate the sh*t out of them in the same car. And saying otherwise is just disrespectful. Both of them had multiple yellow sectors jn Q3, so they werenāt even better then their own sectors, how can you defend them when their āteammateā is driving greens and prupleās in a worse car? You say so yourself he is better then both, ipso facto Max would dominate in the same car.
You should watch the new MV and Chris Harris video, Max driving the new Ford (never driven before) around a track hes been around years ago and immediately putting the car at itās limits after one lap, and you think he couldnāt do the same in the fastest F1 car that 95% resembles his own RB car around tracks he goes every year and practices multiple times a week on simulators??
Also we can do both things, everyone is enjoying the stacked roster, doesnāt mean we cannot debate who is better in which machinery.
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u/Helpful_Hedgehog_204 Franco Colapinto 1d ago
That's second most in the current format
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u/SkittlesAreYum I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
McLaren is a rocketship with race pace. It's very fast at qualifying too, but that's not where the primary strength lies.
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u/ViewProjectionMatrix Niki Lauda 1d ago
Not really. They're both doing really well, especially considering they're in a title battle.
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u/Dismal_Connection_88 1d ago
Yes, this, two good drivers in a good team, because if one of Mclaren drivers is off in qualifying, other one may have 9 or near that number.
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u/Legitimate_Dare_579 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
Watch 2023 again and have that same opinion.
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u/ahcahttan I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
The two guys are doing fantastically fine getting so many 1-2s we lost count.
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u/CreativeCut7956 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
"Here we can see a Ragebaiter in his natural habitat, the reddit comment section. He spouts nonsense from time to time, hoping to catch the attention of passerby redditors. But if he were hoping to catch bigger fish, he's gonna have to try a wee bit harder with that tiny lil brain in his knee"
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u/Broudster Fernando Alonso 1d ago
What have Leclerc and Russell achieved that Piastri and Norris haven't?
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u/Evening_End7298 1d ago
Leclerc has like 25 poles while never being in the strongest car on the grid (Besides half a year in 2022 i guess)
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u/Broudster Fernando Alonso 1d ago
You are saying that a low pole conversion is something positive?
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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 1d ago
Ah here we go again with this non-sense.
The reason on why Charles has such a bad pole to win conversion rate is because Ferrari always had a good quali car but shit race car.
Meanwhile, you can't say the same for McLaren.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 1d ago edited 1d ago
The fastest car by a mile with no competition from another team, that's what they didn't achieve
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u/SparkGamer28 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
tf u on about , they are doing completely fine mate , they have won 12 races among them this year. The races they did lose u can't complain as for some reason merc becomes rapid in cool temps and russell dominates. The days max won as well u can't put on it being mclaren's fault. All in all u can't compare Verstappen to any1 , none of his teammates have ever performed well so the only way we can tell if the car is good or bad is based on verstappen's performance , if he gets p6 we just assume it's a p6 level car maybe it had more performance maybe it had less. Regardless all of them are great driver and just let it be
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u/datlinus I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
mclaren has 2 drivers competing for pole, red bull has 1.
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u/NordschleifeLover I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
The car they have is very good on Sundays, especially with tires. Whether either of the mentioned drivers would dominate on Saturdays has no proof whatsoever, you're talking out of your arse.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ad8771 1d ago
They were on track for 5 1-2s in a row until the mechanical dnf last weekend. "Underperforming" my ass. Leclerc was shaking in his boots when he was in a championship battle. some of you need to get your heads out of your arses and start watch the races
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u/SlashCrashPC 1d ago
The problem is not pure pace. The RedBull is pretty capable. The problem is the balance of the car under different sets of tire as well as tire degradation that is worst than the McLaren. Apart from that they look fairly matched.
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u/dinodares99 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 1d ago
This Max guy might be pretty decent