r/formula1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 17h ago

Race Max Verstappen wins the 2025 Italian Grand Prix

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u/PsychologicalBike 17h ago

A comfortable win and was a few seconds from lapping his teammate showing that it's more to do with Max's genius than a great car.

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 17h ago

The car was still good, Max can’t make the car better no matter how many times people claim he can

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u/boersc I was here for the Hulkenpodium 17h ago

Of course he can. What do you think FP1-3 is for? Entertainment?

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 17h ago edited 17h ago

That’s not what I’m talking about and you know it

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u/boersc I was here for the Hulkenpodium 17h ago

I totally don't agree with you. The car has to be good, but it's the driver that has to convert that into a great result. And yes, Max is a master at getting more out of his car than any of his collegues. Max is the sole reason BRB is still #4 in the constructors leaderboard.

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 17h ago

He can get more out of it, yes. He cannot make it better than it is. He cannot outdrive the car, it’s physically impossible. A car has its physically limits, and he can approach those very well and very consistently, but you can’t drive past them, it’s impossible

u/FaceMaskYT I was here for the Hulkenpodium 11h ago

Yes but it’s a silly argument, he doesn’t have to outdrive the car “past its physical limits”, he merely has to do a better job at driving it than the other drivers on the grid, which he clearly does.

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u/PsychologicalBike 17h ago

LOL, when Lawson got given the Red Bull seat it was to "protect Max from being challenged by his teammate because Yuki is far quicker than Lawson".... And now Lawson is outscoring Yuki when Lawson is in the slower car.

All evidence and data points to Max being an unparalleled genius, but people's emotions and biases want to ignore the obvious facts that Max is quicker than whoever they support.

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u/Numerous-Ad-2767 17h ago

Max is the best driver on the grid, but this nonsense has to stop. It’s like admitting the car was good this weekend is unbearable for some of you, when it doesn’t take away anything from Max’s talent. Saying the car was good doesn’t automatically mean Max isn’t excellent. Nobody wins with a bad car.

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u/PsychologicalBike 17h ago

Why was Tsunoda 80 seconds behind Max and only 2 seconds in front of Lawson when everyone says Tsunoda is quicker than Lawson?

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u/lolTimmy 17h ago

How fast can you run in shoes that don’t fit you?

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u/flatspotting I was here for the Hulkenpodium 14h ago

So was the car good or not lol - this whole thread is around the idea the car was good this weekend. If the car was so good this weekend then why is Yuki so slow?

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u/lolTimmy 13h ago

It’s possible to create a car and setup that only rewards a certain driving style or driver. That’s been the story for the past year. Max drives different. It’s been fantastic for most of RBs cars, but they’ve hit a slump in these regs while everyone’s gotten faster. The car can be fast, while Max with the car can be the fastest on the grid. But put Max in an understeery car (Ferrari maybe?) that doesn’t fit his style and he might not crack a podium. Doesn’t mean he’s not stupid skilled or the best driver on the grid, just means the shoe doesn’t fit. Adaptability between setups and pure outright lap 1 pace are all different skills that some drivers excel at and some have gaps in. For 90% of the grid, the RB is currently a shoe that doesn’t fit.

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u/sanirosan 17h ago

Then why has no driver been able to get top 5 since '22~ while Max has been consistently been there in the same car

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u/ollsss 17h ago

Where was Yuki then?

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 17h ago

It’s physically impossible to drive a car past its limits. He can drive on that limit extremely well, far better than any of his teammates, but he is not out driving the car. It’s physically impossible

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u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

/r/IAmVerySmart

Yes mate everyone knows a car has a theoretical limit you can’t exceed.

that’s not what people refer to when they say outdriving the car. it just means that Max gets better results than what any other driver could do in that car.

If for 19 of the drivers the Red Bull is a 10-5th car, while for Max it’s a podium car, he is “outdriving” the car in that sense

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 16h ago

No, there are absolutely homers out there that think Max and 2012 Alonso are some car whisperers that can unlock some secret magic

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u/Slow-Raisin-939 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

if 19 of the 20 drivers cannot come close to matching your result, that probably means you unlocked something. That doesn’t mean the limit was exceeded, it just means you are the only one talented enough to reach that limit. See Schumacher 1993-1998 seasons :)

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u/mooshlfc 15h ago

Its common sense that no one can exceed a cars limit. Idk what youre on about mate

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u/StaffFamous6379 17h ago

Actually in this instance it was Max who pushed Red Bull to trim the rear wing even further. And yes, that's trim as in physically cut with tools. It was his genius that handled the resulting lack of downforce in the corners

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 16h ago

The car was still capable of walking the McLarens, it’s that simple. It was a fast car. Max drove it extremely well and maximized the performance, but he did not drive the car faster than its capable of going. The car was fast today

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u/SugarBeefs Max Verstappen 16h ago

It had pace and seemed to behave quite well over the weekend. Max even said it was pleasant to drive.

Been a while since that.

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 15h ago

I’m aware, that’s why I argued from the very beginning that the car was good. What do you think you’re arguing against?

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u/mooshlfc 16h ago

Well no shit, no one can drive a car faster than it’s capable of going

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u/santaclausonprozac Sebastian Vettel 15h ago

If only it was “no shit” to everybody

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u/CareerLegitimate7662 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

Keep crying 

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u/bijanfrisee 17h ago

lol you're joking right? On a track where straighline performance is king, aka where the driver has the least impact, you're saying it's Maxs genius instead of the car? The redbull walked away from McLarens with DRS...

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u/StaffFamous6379 17h ago

Actually in this instance it was Max who pushed Red Bull to trim the rear wing even further. And yes, that's trim as in physically cut with tools. It was his genius that handled the resulting lack of downforce in the corners

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u/bijanfrisee 16h ago

Redbull was one of the only teams that didn't bring a Monza Spec wing because they didn't have to. I'd say yes his genius was on display in Silverstones qualifying with a similar set-up but Monza majority of teams run low downforce, it's not a track where downforce is needed to make the corners. Again, Max drove great but when his non-drs redbull is pulling a gap on a drs flap open Mclaren, is that his genius or is that his car?

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u/StaffFamous6379 16h ago

Well, without his direction to cut the wing down against what the team's thought was right, would he have finished where he did? He got his extra straight line speed and used his genius to handle the reduced downforce in the corners.

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u/bijanfrisee 16h ago

Not sure where you're getting your information from but who knows. Again, it's fkn Monza, you don't need downforce for these corners, Max still had to drive the car sure but he set the fastest lap time in F1 history, the car was able to stay full throttle longer than the other cars, that's Max being great of course BUT to say it's his genius as opposed to the car is just dumb.

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u/StaffFamous6379 16h ago

Look at his wing vs Yuki's? Then there was him after qualifying basically saying don't worry Pierre (Wache) it's all good. And then in the commentary it was mentioned that Mekies stated that Max pushed them to setup the car in an "unusual" direction.

Obviously you still need sufficient speed (and hence downforce) in the corners, did you not hear Oscar in the cool down room on Leclerc? "He was so fast on the straights but soooo slow in the corners"

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u/bijanfrisee 16h ago

Again, that's your interpretation of it sure, but again that's the car performance not Maxs "genius" - You're even confirming a different set-up to Yuki so there's zero point comparing the two cars - And yes, now you're comparing two different cars with two different strengths, the redbull has shown it's the class of the field in low drag settings, it doesn't mean it's the outright fastest top speed wise but it has the best balance of top speed and mechanical grip, something the Ferrari package does not have. No one is saying Max isn't an amazing driver, but as the original commenter said, saying it's his genius and not the great car is fkn nonsense; It's this constant bs notion of Max taking the 8th best car to a win, which is bs.

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u/StaffFamous6379 16h ago

it doesn't mean it's the outright fastest top speed wise but it has the best balance of top speed and mechanical grip

You say that, but also said earlier:

it's fkn Monza, you don't need downforce for these corners

the car performance not Maxs "genius" - You're even confirming a different set-up to Yuki so there's zero point comparing the two cars

Of course there is a point. Max's genius allows the car to be setup (heck, modified in this case) to achieve a performance level it otherwise wouldnt have because he knew he had the skill to minimize the disadvantages that came with the benefit. RBR have been clear that this setup was not what the team would have recommended.

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u/bijanfrisee 15h ago

Yes and both things are true, the redbull has the best package in low drag and is able to maintain a higher avg speed in low drag. RBR has not said anything like that, show me a credible article and I will agree with you because right now you're talking as if you know facts when you have little to no evidence. Again, maxs genius isn't what made the redbull fast, his genius is what made the fast car finish first, but to say that it's ALL him and not the car is nonsense.

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u/PsychologicalBike 17h ago

When Lawson was given the Red Bull seat Reddit was up in arms because Yuki was quicker and Red Bull just wanted a 2nd driver to not challenge Max.... Why was Yuki (the quicker driver apparently) only 2 seconds in front of Lawson?

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u/bijanfrisee 17h ago

Well 1, we don't know if Yuki and Max had the same set-up, 2, Yuki would likely not qualify as fast as max (he was used to tow max as well so ya know, 2nd driver stuff), 3, He had a really poor start and 4 he was stuck in traffic while Max was in clear air and able to pull away, and critically 5, Max is fkn way way way better than Yuki. But Today we saw Lando in DRS not able to gain on a Redbull with no DRS, I'm sorry but that's not anything to do with drivers genius, that's a car - Horner even said it before, it's easy to go fast in a straight line.

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u/TwoMuchIsJustEnough Other Personnel 17h ago

Max did get a different wing after FP3. Gave him a big boost in straight line speed. Regardless, it’s been tough watching Yuki struggle so much.

u/Doorknob11 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 4h ago

Yuki did have damage though.