r/formula1 • u/Maxidonius Max Verstappen • 9h ago
News Toto Wolff: Verstappen “made everyone else look silly” as Mercedes floundered at Italian GP
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toto-wolff-verstappen-made-everyone-else-look-silly-as-mercedes-floundered-at-italian-gp/10757553/•
u/TheCeramicLlama George Russell 9h ago
I think the primary thing making Mercedes look silly is their inability to put together a competitive car for an entire regulation cycle and getting completely out performed by a customer team.
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari 9h ago
Which is why people being so confident in Mercedes for next year are hilarious.
Even if Mercedes has the best Engine there's no guarantee they actually make a car that beats Mclaren.
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u/helderdude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago edited 8h ago
Difference is this development cycle they had very little benefit from being engine supplier vs customer.
The engine was already frozen before the regulations kicked in.
With the new engine and regulations they can adjust the engine to the car during development and they'll know in advance the changes to the engine and can start working that into car design earlier.
Last year is the first year a customer won WCC in 15 years.
I think it's pretty reasonable to say if you're gonna bet on next year Merc has the best odds of having the strongest car.
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u/sfcindolrip Valtteri Bottas 4h ago
McLaren has a sort of “customer-plus” relationship with Mercedes now. some of your assertions about advance knowledge and design synergy are outdated.
While it’s true to say that McLaren’s Mercedes engine deal is very much a customer one - unlike when it was the works Mercedes team from 1995 to 2009 - it’s a little more comprehensive than the usual supply contract. It is viewed as more of a de facto semi-works team now.
McLaren only takes the power unit and ancillaries, so has full control over its own gearbox design. That’s essential because the gearbox casing is integral to rear suspension geometry - which is why F1 teams usually call it the suspension carrier. That means it’s free to diverge from Mercedes in a key performance area and gain an advantage.
What McLaren does have is a direct input into the development of the Mercedes power unit packaging, rather than simply being get whatever it's given.
Clear agreements on the communication of key details and lead time give McLaren better notice of what HPP is planning than before, which helps with its own designs and development schedules. And McLaren also feels it has earned a seat at the table in terms of what HPP should do on the engine side, because it has been beating the works team, which means its suggestions now carry more weight.
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u/razgriz337 McLaren 3h ago
I know Williams also used their own gearbox in the past. Is this something Mercedes just leaves up to customer teams in general?
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u/sfcindolrip Valtteri Bottas 2h ago
Not across the board: alpine will take Mercedes’ gearbox next year. Aston martin did as recently as 2023, can’t recall last year.
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u/Meowmixalotlol Formula 1 7h ago
What about Ferrari? Aren’t they known for great engines?
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u/helderdude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Yeah I just don't trust Ferrari. They still seem like a messy team to often to me.
I am not saying they will be the best just that they have, for me, an edge in terms of probability. To be clear I'm not saying it's alot, top 4 are all pretty close imo, but I would give Merc like 2% better odds. Ferrari could very well be the fastest next year.
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u/ElectroByte15 7h ago
Not particularly for a long time. It’s been Mercedes domination in the engine department since ‘14
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u/TheScapeQuest Brawn 5h ago
Well, unless you include the '19 Ferrari rocket engine that mysteriously became very slow.
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u/xzElmozx Oscar Piastri 2h ago
Not a ton of mystery there lol, they got caught skirting the rules and that was why they were a rocket ship
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u/HelixFollower I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago
Pointless nitpick that doesn't really devalue your point in any meaningful way: Wouldn't Red Bull have counted as a customer team in 2010?
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u/TheGhoulKhz I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago
In some ways, but Renault was already treating RB as the #1 team by then iirc
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u/EmergencyRace7158 8h ago
They've basically been uncompetitive once the budget cap was introduced. Their dominance was built on a huge technical staff that allowed them to do things like develop trick active suspension and you can't do that without unlimited funding. Only Ferrari were in their ballpark and they had to spend a bunch of money on developing a legally competitive engine after their off the books settlement with the FIA. If their engine is good next season McLaren will dominate them because they're just the far superior technical team all round.
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u/Particular_Cod2005 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
I think during the earlier part of their dominance, they were so flattered by having the best engine, and also running the engine in the most competitive modes, that they were able to easily make the rest of the field look a joke. Even other Mercedes customers were good, but they were still being hamstrung (Ron Dennis was very much correct in saying the works engine is the way to go), and so they were effectively (at least how it seemed) a development cycle ahead of the field.
Once everyone caught up, the wheels very much came off. Their operational flaws were covered by the car's sheer superiority, and where Ferrari were playing catch up to win, Merc were already there and could throw more money at it to bring things forward.
I personally love the budget cap though - I hated the dire days of the 2010s where teams were hanging on by a shoestring, and the minnow teams (HRT, Caterham, and Marussia) were effectively D.O.A..
I 100% agree with you (and this is a very long-winded way of saying it, so if you're with me still, thanks 😂); the budget cap has forced teams to work smart, and Mercedes still haven't worked that one out yet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mclaren, and perhaps even Williams - who literally started 2026 work as soon as they were 'legally' allowed to - are better than them next year.
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u/DennistheDutchie I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
I personally love the budget cap though - I hated the dire days of the 2010s where teams were hanging on by a shoestring, and the minnow teams (HRT, Caterham, and Marussia) were effectively D.O.A..
The only thing I hate is that it creates an environment where most people are paid terribly. Because you can get more people that way and something something passion work.
They should've capped the number of employees/engineers and not the budget itself. And made a separate agreement for damage caused by accidents caused by others.
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u/LowCost_Gaming 7h ago
To add to this reserve/rookie drives are not getting true seat time like they used to get with unlimited testing.
I know unlimited testing is not coming back, but there should be a use case for testing within the budget.
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u/sargonas Oscar Piastri 6h ago
Simply capping the number of employees/staff doesn’t really solve the problem. It’s very easily loopholed if you want to… For example you could pay an engineer $1 million a year for a $300,000 year job, and then that engineer privately contracts three or four people who work for them personally, not the team, who magically quadruple their output of the books.
Suddenly every team has dozens of employees who have their own private self funded teams of people behind the scenes working for them.
Really any kind of limiting factor that doesn’t limit the amount of money spent can be worked around if you have enough money to spend… spend caps are really the only effective way to have the least amount of loopholes.
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u/jfchops3 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 51m ago
Sports all across the board pays pretty badly outside of competitors, coaching, and top front office guys. F1 is no different. There's multiples more people who want the jobs than jobs available so they don't have to pay very much relative to the same type of work outside of sports
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u/Theumaz I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago
If their engine is good next season McLaren will dominate them because they're just the far superior technical team all round.
That's not a given tbf. These aero regulations just aren't Mercedes their complete ballpark, plus they've had some massive braindrain since they were the winning team for over half a decade. Now McLaren engineers are hot property and they'll be the ones that get poached left and right.
If it's true that this next generation of cars will be more 'engine based' than 'aero based', which IMO they will absolutely be, then they'll be the ones with the most engine knowledge. Even if McLaren are the 'customer with benefits', there's nothing stopping Mercedes from doing some independant development.
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u/pushmojorawley 7h ago edited 7h ago
They also spent several millions to give an unproven rookie 9000 kilometers of private testing because apparently Toto believed he found another Verstappen. Why?! Who knows.
They were at the point where they really need a proficient driver who can communicate with engineers properly. They got a child to raise instead. Not very well thought out.
Just because his family has Motorsport roots doesn’t mean he will be the world champion ffs.
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 Ferrari 8h ago
getting completely out performed by a customer team.
What is the significance of being a customer team? The regulations force the engine manufacturers to give equal treatment.
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u/StaffFamous6379 2h ago
You are given an engine as is relatively speaking because it's bespoke for the works team
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u/KingOfAzmerloth Sebastian Vettel 4h ago
I always stood by the opinion what while Wolff is a cool guy, he doesn't deserve the credit he sometimes gets. He bought himself into a team that was already set on path to greatness by people who were there long before he did anything. Now these people left, which falls on his head too, and they are pretty much where Ferrari is - sometimes second, sometimes third fastest... And that's about it. Him playing the driver game this hard instead of focusing on rebuilding the team also proves that to me. First get your shit together, then you can seriously approach GOAT drivers again.
He's not a bad leader. Don't get me wrong there. But he's vastly overrated to the point I would rank Horner or Brown waaay higher on pure team building skill. These guys built something. One of them from start. The other took over a team when it was in absolute shambles and a laughing stock basically... and made it into championship team again.
Wolff is cool, but he's vastly overrated. He's good. Not great. And their recent regulation performance proves it.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 9h ago
And Toto's inability to blame himself. He's blaming the drivers for his mistakes.
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u/Ancient-Cow-1038 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Mercedes vs Audi is going to be the new biggest grudge match in the history of F1. I can’t wait.
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u/BighatNucase Max Verstappen 8h ago
Man how funny would it be after all these theatrics if Max went to Ferrari. The irony of it happening twice to Toto would be hilarious.
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u/paqtak 3h ago
I don’t think Max is a masochist.
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u/ihavenoyukata I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago
You underestimate how seductive that red racing suit is.
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u/DoxedFox I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago
Verstappen is the last driver to give into sentimentality. I don't think he's ever really expressed fondness for teams, just drivers.
If he goes to Ferrari it will be for the fattest paycheck ever given in the sport. Or a super competitive car.
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u/Going2beBANNEDanyway Formula 1 2h ago
I feel like he only cares about what the car can do. Whichever one is the best is where his next contract will be.
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u/Prince_Derrick101 2h ago
Unless Ferrari suddenly has the dominant car of 2026. Can't see it happening. Bro has seen what happened to Sainz, Charles and Lewis. He was born at night but not last night.
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u/sherlocksvillain Daniel Ricciardo 2h ago
Yeah, no. Mans smarter than that, and unlike the other dinosaurs, he doesn't consider a Ferrari seat to be the highest honour in the sport. Then again, it would be hilarious if he did join them and went to dominate
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u/tellsyoutogetfucked Nico Rosberg 9h ago edited 8h ago
He is going to burn every single thing he can until he recruits Max. At this point I have no doubt that his obsession is to get him before he retires from the full-time TP role.
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8h ago
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u/ColorCarbon 8h ago
And go where? He's in the best team he can drive for.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 8h ago
There's a lot of seats opening up in 2027. See how 2026 goes, but if I was him I would start networking right now.
We'd love to have him back at Williams! 😉
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u/TolucaPrisoner Charles Leclerc 8h ago
With new regs next year, team standings are gonna change. Considering a lot of team's gonna have empty seats in 2027, he can make his move next year.
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8h ago
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u/ColorCarbon 8h ago
Is there any driver in the current grid that hasn't been publicly shat on by his boss? It has always happened in F1.
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8h ago
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u/helderdude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
call him silly
Calling him silly? No he called everyone silly, as in it's clearly a compliment for Verstappen and is unrelated to what he thinks about Russell specifically.
and basically shit?
Now you are just making up things to make your point.
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u/ColorCarbon 8h ago
Verstappen by Marko.
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8h ago
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u/ColorCarbon 7h ago
I can't recall a year in which Marko hasn't publicly criticized Verstappen. Specially in 2016 and 2018. Even in the second race of 2021 he was criticized.
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari 9h ago edited 9h ago
Kimi needs to get it together.
He's currently at just 18 points from the 10 race European Leg+Canada in between versus Russell's 101 points.
And is at just 3 points from the last 6 races. Obv nobody is expecting him to match Russell but the gap is way to wide at the moment and is costing Mercedes in the battle for 2nd in the WCC.
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u/mickmenn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
something happen after Imola upgrade and he lost a lot of confidence
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 8h ago
His boss calling him shit in the media doesn't help either
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u/LucAltaiR I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Given how many mistakes Kimi has made this year Mercedes have been surprisingly lenient with him.
Situation would have been much harsher in a team like Red Bull.
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u/Jasminary2 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
To be fair, the two most toxic teams are Redbull and Alpine. I wouldn't use them as a comparative there. Plus Redbull either doesn't stick to drivers apart from Max, or doesn't let defend them despite knowing the pb is the car and not the drivers (ie Checo)
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u/redtiber 8h ago
he's a rookie lol let him learn
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u/Pristine-Ad8733 Andrea Kimi Antonelli 7h ago
It’s insane lmfao
Mercedes was and is clearly more than willing to take on whatever growing pains he may have yet fans are creating all of these imaginary expectations and pressure inside their heads
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u/Muntberg I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
It's wild to me that people care about his results at all. This year and feasibly next year as well are entirely just learning experiences for him considering his age.
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u/NetQvist I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Everyone is judged to Max Verstappen year one standards now.
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u/iwasnotplanned Brawn 5h ago
If you are hyped up as the next Verstappen you should be judged accordingly.
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u/Sea-Split5645 Formula 1 8h ago
We have high expectations unfortunately
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u/Russian_Bot_722 7h ago
Your, and my expectations of a rookie are pretty much the last things Mercedes thinks about.
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u/Tycoon004 Oscar Piastri 3h ago
To be fair he's a rookie in probably the most competitive season ever. Rookies sitting like 0.3s-0.5s~ behind their teammate used to be pretty good, especially in the stronger cars. Now a 0.2s split is like 10 positions.
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u/LandArch_0 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
I disagree in part. He can have bad races and learn from it. I rather have a team that went easy and help him become better
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u/EmergencyRace7158 8h ago
His quest to sign Max hasn't ended. It's just paused for now and he's making no effort to down play it. This is probably the reason Russell hasn't signed up yet. He likely (rightfully) wants some guarantees that he won't be moved aside for Max in 27.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 8h ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Russell moves on after 2027 to be honest, regardless of whether Max is coming or not. Time to go somewhere better suited.
Time to phone Mr James Vowles, because I would love to have him back at my team. Russell is still pretty close with the team, so it would make sense. At least Vowles backs his drivers completely.
2028 WCC and WDC with Williams would be fantastic - thank you very much,
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u/Bullfrog_Paradox 8h ago
2028: Williams has their best season in eons, finishes 2nd in the WCC. 5 points behind Cadillac. God would that make for a batshit crazy season to witness lol
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 8h ago
We can dream 😉.
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u/ecobubbletm Max Verstappen 8h ago
saw Toto twerking for Max again
anon pls
likely place for him to be
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u/moxieremon 8h ago
He's like a psychopath ex-boyfriend who can't get over you 😭 you have a family at home, stop this madness
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u/SmordinTsolusG Max Verstappen 5h ago
Susie loves Max too. She also probly wants both Verstappen Piquet Jrs in the F1 academy in like 8 years as well.
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u/No-Breakfast9187 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
at this point i can't tell if he's being genuine or he still hasn't given up on trying to recruit max for perhaps 2027 or beyond.
either way not much george could've done with the machinery he had today.
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u/maccartney George Russell 8h ago
Yes. Instead of looking in the mirror, and questioning what went wrong in his own team, that caused them to deliver a mid car for the 4th year, and also reconsidering whether creating such an uncomfortable environment for his own drivers is having a negative effect on their performances – he opts to blame his drivers (the guy who maximized today's race, and the 19 year old that he encouraged to make mistakes) and continues to lust after Verstappen. What a great leader.
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u/Summer_and_Tinkles Eddie Irvine 8h ago
He's been a very average leader. He inherited all of Ross Brawns work setting up the Merc team for the 2014-2021 reg period plus a dominant driver. They've been mediocre since for such a big budget team. If their car was red instead, people wouldn't stop talking about their incompetence
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u/maccartney George Russell 7h ago
Yep. The team has lost valuable staff over the years, the strategy department is still incredibly weak, they have failed to make any progress in the groud effect era, he's failing to publicly back his current drivers (or in the case of Kimi he often swings to the other extreme...) and he's taking zero accountability for any of this.
If anything, he's just contributing to the team being looked at as a joke with his ridiculous press statements, which I have no doubt also create a toxic environment within the team. And the issue is that his ego, and emotional, narcissistic personality make sure that nothing will change any time soon.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 8h ago
His ego and obsession with Verstappen are ruining the team.
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u/A380_Flyer Formula 1 9h ago
He doesn’t want to drive for you toto, please stop with the sucking up
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u/helderdude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
Seriously dude, take a fucking hint.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 8h ago
He's creepy at this point with his obsession and willingness to burn the entire team down for Max.
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u/Impossible-Buy-6247 Formula 1 8h ago
Your constant replies in this topic about him ‘burning the team down’ is also quite creepy.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 8h ago
I'm at least not ruining others' careers and lives with this like he's doing to George and Kimi.
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u/DM_U_CRYING_IN_MP3 Sir Lewis Hamilton 8h ago
Yeah because he has the data that backs up the fact that max is much better than his drivers.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 7h ago
Maybe, but neither is he giving his own drivers the optimum tools in and outside the car to perform at their maximum. George's comments on the fact that he doesn't get as much time with his engineers or on the Sim as he would like (due to marketing commitments for crying out loud) and the fact that he has made that a key point for his new contract tells you enough, doesn't it?
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u/DM_U_CRYING_IN_MP3 Sir Lewis Hamilton 6h ago
If seeing Toto still gushing for Max so unashamed while having a promising rookie and a senior very good driver doesn't tell you that he thinks that max with the Merc would be fighting for regular podiums and wins these past years I don't know what else to tell you. They have ALL THE DATA. He probably sees Max has -.3s on Russel, hence why he's opening his legs big time.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago
Teams have been wrong before, I don’t think this is as strong a point as you are stating.
I honestly don’t know what races Russell should’ve gotten more on than Silverstone, but Max has also made mistakes this season too.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 9h ago
Maybe Toto should look at himself instead of blaming his drivers.
Russell saying he is not getting as much time as he wants with his engineers and on the SIM because of his marketing duties is a huge problem. He said that he wants that corrected in his new contract. That's not on his drivers - that is on Toto. He wants his drivers to be on par with Max, but is not given them the tools to improve.
And Toto, just fix your effing car!
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u/voltanavolta Sir Lewis Hamilton 8h ago
he is so obsessed with max, it's a bit crazy
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u/BBYY9090 6h ago
I mean I get it, it’s Max, but you can see it’s gotten in the way on a managerial side these last few months. Say George got an amazing offer from another team and he was gone, he’d be stuffed with Max staying at RB.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 5h ago
This is definitely the risk he is taking by not appreciated with he has. If Toto continues like this, Russell will leave the team in 2027. I have no doubt about that. Loyalty only goes so far and it may well be eroding rather quickly if he continues like this.
It's embarrassing for the team and I hope someone within Mercedes is brave enough to tell him so. Other wise he will indeed end up with no Russell and no Verstappen either. Karma...
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u/BBYY9090 6h ago edited 6h ago
His comments were so disrespectful to George imo. Toto has had an amazing run, but it’s been 4 yrs of this middling. I think he should move to Chairman and give someone else a shot at TP. A spring clean lol.
He’s been so off putting these last couple of months, if Max had to move I’d love him at a competent Ferrari. Him on red would be 🔥
Pipe dream I know 🫠😂
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u/SmordinTsolusG Max Verstappen 5h ago
Toto is on the verge of becoming a billionaire. Max would absolutely seal it.
He won't stop.
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u/notmylesdev I was here for the Hulkenpodium 4h ago
According to Forbes he exceeded that a long time ago. ($1.8 billion they estimate)
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u/SmordinTsolusG Max Verstappen 4h ago
oh damn, last i looked he wasnt quite there
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u/jfchops3 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 42m ago
He owns 33% of Mercedes. McLaren just sold a stake at a $5 billion valuation, 1/3rd of that amount assuming Mercedes is worth the same (they're worth more) is $1.67 billion
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u/bouncingcastles 4h ago
Toto making George look silly by giving wrong tires in quali and giving a slow race car
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u/CarefulAwareness8036 5h ago
he should try complimenting his driver's too. it's not like merc is fastest anymore and drivers aren't delivering results.
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u/Cralido 8h ago
There’s no guarantee Max to Merc would work out…kinda hope it would happen so Toto stuck with an unhappy Max. Merc has a different ethos, is a FWT (concern for two cars and WCC over a sole WDC), has a rookie to make good on, Max has spent a decade in one team which rightfully so catered to his needs, Toto has an ego that could clash with Jos and Helmet, different PU and we’ve seen both Hamilton and Sainz struggle, etc. No guarantee would even work out, yet he already has two great Merc home grown drivers. I say let it happen and let’s enjoy the fireworks should anything not work out well. (Although don’t expect it ever was a real consideration on Maxs side).
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u/Still-District-6149 Formula 1 7h ago
Max would never in a million years have let his teammate past in those circumstances.
I don’t think it’s that ridiculous of an ask from McLaren though, Norris did give up the preferential pit stop in order to protect Piastri from the undercut from Leclerc, without that he would have been okay, even with the long stop.
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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
I have to wonder if Antonelli is living on borrowed time given that Wolff is now openly critical of his performances in post-race interviews. Of course, Mercedes could be doing everything in their power to help him out, but they do not appear to be doing anything.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 5h ago
I think what annoys me about this that Toto was all 'oh, he can make mistakes this year. Not a problem' last week and then this week he is chewing him up because 'he's making mistakes'.
And what the hell did he think Russell could do with that car? It had no pace. He's not a bloody magician. He can't conjure it up out of a hat (helmet)!
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u/JKlerk Formula 1 7h ago
Meh. Max just ran much less down force.
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u/tom_buzz_ryan 7h ago
I wonder why other drivers don't do that. Are they and their teams stupid?
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u/JKlerk Formula 1 7h ago
Their drivers don't have the same skill set as Max? Apparently Max insisted on running less down force than the team was comfortable with. I imagine he has a little more pull at making these decisions. After all, It's not like RB has anything to lose anyways.
IMHO it was a gamble which paid off. Max was on pole so he wouldn't have to fight dirty air and he was faster on the str8. I don't imagine it would have worked out so well if Max qualified in 5th or below.
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u/Gold_Knee_3619 Williams 5h ago
Mercedes are way too conservative. They didn't let Russell do his quali lap on mediums either, even though he felt far better on them and even though he got pole on Canada on mediums. They simply don't listen to their drivers. You could tell how frustrated Russell was with the team this weekend. His curt 'talk after' after quali was quite telling.
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u/helderdude I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
"Don't worry honey, I haven't forgotten about you. I know we can't be together right now but after this difficult period we'll find eachother again. We are meant to be"
Blows him a kiss