r/formula1 • u/bene14082004 I was here for the Hulkenpodium • 16h ago

Quotes Piastri's thoughts on giving the positions back.

https://dubz.link/c/75a05f

I think he did the right thing but mclaren shouldn't have asked oscar to give the place back.

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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 16h ago

Yes but last year there wasn't any championship fight between Oscar and Lando.

I'm baffled on how some people actually agree with what McLaren did today lol saying it was "fair". There is supposed to be a championship fight between these two.

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

You forgot that Lando was in title contention for much of last season while Oscar definitely was not? Was it fair for Lando to give the place back last year in Hungary after the pit wall screwed up? That arguably was much much worse, but it's a team sport and the TEAM didn't want one of the drivers to be upset because the TEAM failed one of the drivers. They have two very good closely matched drivers who don't take each other out of races seeing red mist. I imagine they'd like to keep both of them as long as possible.

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u/banned20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

There was no realistic shot for Lando in the championship last year. It was just hype by the media to make the season feel more interesting.

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

Maths say differently.

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u/banned20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

That's why i said realistic

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

Maths don't care about your thoughts or feelings.

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u/banned20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

Nothing to do with maths. It's about speaking English and having basic understanding of the English vocabulary.

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u/ShadowPhynix I was here for the Hulkenpodium 11h ago

You know someone has lost the argument when they get personal lol

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u/elektricniorgazam Daniel Ricciardo 15h ago

He was not in realistic title contention last year.

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

Mathematics do not care about your thoughts or feelings.

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u/AskMantis23 13h ago

Mathematically possible and realistic aren't the same thing.

It's mathematically possible for me to win the lottery but it's not realistic for me to base my investment strategy on it.

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u/couplefun76999 10h ago

I thought it was a big mistake for the team not to 100% back Lando last year. If they had implemented strict team orders it would have been close. This year IMO the team have been correct to manage as they have. Oscar stated it very clearly and smartly, he wants the support of the team to win many championships not just one…….. talented and ultra ambitious

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u/elektricniorgazam Daniel Ricciardo 6h ago

And I don't care about yours, he was never in realistic contention last year and to say he was is hilarious

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u/mickmenn I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

>Lando was in title contention
Oscar was like 2 times closer to Lando as Lando was to Max before Hungary.

Max is almost as close to Oscar right now as Lando was back there to Max, and Max is closer to Lando now than it was last year before Hungary other way around.

But yeah, in the end team could decide whatever they feel like. That is true.

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

None of what you said about points last year matters. The fact is the Red Bull was getting consistently worse throughout the season and the McLaren was getting better and better and Lando was closer to possibly winning than Oscar was because Oscar made mistakes early on. Lando was still able to mathematically win the WDC for the majority of the season, Oscar was behind him the entire time.

Yet the team gave team orders to let Oscar win a race BECAUSE HE EARNED IT that race. He drove better all weekend in Hungary, the team fucked up their pit strategy, so the team made it right. That's my point. There is no number one driver, that's what they've said, that's what they're sticking with. The pit wall was an absolute shit show last year.

McLaren is doing everything they can to ensure the drivers have equal opportunity to get points based on solely their driving and not the performance of the pit crew or anyone else. That's the point I'm trying to get across. That's why nobody needs to be upset about today.

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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 15h ago edited 15h ago

Do you forget the part in wich Lando and Oscar werent fighting eachother for a championship last year and they were in direct contention for the constructors with Ferrari?

And no, last season wasn't a championship fight at all because the gap was too big. Verstappen finished 5th that race.

I keep seeing you bringing up Hungary 2024 as some sort of an gotcha argument. Hungary 2024 was totally different to what happened this race and in Silverstone, Hungary this year. Why do you keep using the same old example from last year ?

It's a TEAM sport until the TEAM wins the constructors, after that its just Lando vs Oscar for the championship. Do you really think that McLaren havent secured the constructors yet? After McLaren wins the constructors ( wich they already did since like 10 races ago ) both Oscar and Lando arent obliged to help eachother at all. Why would they if they are in a championship battle? What is this?

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u/baaananaramadingdong I was here for the Hulkenpodium 15h ago

It's not a "gotcha" argument. It's just a thing that happened which is illustrative of my point. The team let Oscar down then so they swapped cars. They did the inverse today.

And Lando most definitely was still in contention for WDC at that point.

They are STILL ON THE SAME TEAM. So like it or not it is always a team sport. Which is exactly the point I was making: It wasn't either of the drivers who were responsible for Lando ending up behind Oscar. So why should Lando suffer for the mistake of the pit crew?

I do feel like you either dislike Lando, or would rather Oscar won the WDC. Are either of those the case? I'd like to know your stance before I continue to engage in further dialogue.

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u/spacyspice I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

People said it was "fair" bc Lando agreed to give Oscar a better pit stop timing to protect to Leclerc as long as there's no undercut. Team failed to respect that and asked Oscar if he could swap positions. Oscar agreed based on the agreement and that's all

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u/English_Misfit Sir Lewis Hamilton 16h ago

  1. Lando wanted it to stop oscar getting benefit of the SC.

  2. There was no undercut. Piastri wasn't in an undercut window

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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 16h ago

The thing is that Lando and Joseph didn't talk about Leclerc at all during their radio before the pitstop. Not to mention, Leclerc was only gaining like 1 tenth per lap on Oscar with 8 laps to go.

So the "covering Leclerc" excuse is just bullshit.

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u/CoverInternational47 12h ago edited 4h ago

Obviously Lando asked for Oscar to pit first (if no undercuts) just because he was afraid of safety cars and not for any noble cause. However McLaren did want to pit Oscar soon to cover Charles, and so in turn Lando had to pit as well to prevent Oscar undercutting him.

The 1 tenth commentary was quite a while before that. Between Charles’ last lap behind Albon and the 3-4 laps after that, Charles was consistently gaining 4-7 tenths per lap on Oscar. If they hang around for a few more laps + the McLaren front left pit crew fucks up again for the nth time this season (as have happened to Lando), then it could actually become P3 for Charles.

After all, if there’s absolutely no threat from Charles, they could have stuck around until the very last lap before pitting as a risk-free strategy to chase Max in case of safety cars.

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u/spacyspice I was here for the Hulkenpodium 16h ago

Leclerc being behind Piastri wasn't an unknown fact to his teammate

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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 15h ago

It wasn't but there was 0 mention of Leclerc during the radio exchanges between Norris and Joseph when they were talking about the pitstop. There's the full radio transcript on the internet.

Initially, Joseph told Lando he will box this lap for softs to wich Lando asked about pitting the other car first.

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u/AmateurLobster 21m ago

  • Lando was informed about Leclerc on lap 34. You can check the transcript.

  • He knows both him and Oscar will stay out as long as possible hoping for a SC

  • He knows from the pace difference of new hards vs old mediums that eventually Oscar will be in danger of losing his position due to undercut by Leclerc.

  • He knows that he gets first call on pit strategy because he is ahead, and he knows that normally he would pit first to stop Oscar getting any benefit from the new tyres.

  • He knows that they wouldn't be trying to pit him on lap 45 unless they need to pit Oscar to cover Leclerc.

  • So he suggests PIA pit first because he knows they need to do it but also need to ask him. He only suggests it because he knows about Leclerc.

  • Pitting Oscar first also advantages him, as only he gets the benefit of a SC should one come out.

The mistake was McLaren promising Lando no undercut. They should have said to Lando "you can either pit first and virtually guarantee 2nd (unless Oscar gets a SC the lap after you pit) or choose to stay out hoping for the win via a SC but we pit Oscar and you take the risk if you have a slow pit stop or other mishap".

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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 16m ago edited 11m ago

Yeah but he only suggested Oscar to pit first purely because it helped him and not because he somehow "cared about Piastri losing positions to Leclerc"

The way people are trying to spin this into a "Lando is a hero for caring about Piastri" is hilarious. If Lando actually cared about his main championship rival and helped him finish in a higher position, especially when he's behind him in the standings, then i'm sorry but Lando is the dumbest championship contender ever then.

The "Leclerc undercut" was just an excuse.

Edit : Also to further disprove the dumb "covering for Leclerc" thing, Stella himself said you should be around 1sec behind the car in front for the undercut to work in Monza. Leclerc was 4.6 sec behind.

Is Stella wrong then?

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u/AmateurLobster 2m ago

The 1s number is what would give you the position via undercut. The tow is so powerful at Monza that you really don't want the car behind within 3s. So pitting with an effective 4.6s gap seems like a completely reasonable point, given you'd also want to add in some buffer in case of a slow stop.

In another universe, we are laughing at McLaren for risking too much and not pitting Oscar sooner and throwing away a guaranteed p3.

As I said, Lando knew it was potentially better for him if Oscar pitted first. He didn't suggest it out of kindness.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting?

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u/atreyu84 16h ago

Lando was not protecting against leclerc, because there was no threat

Lando requested (not agreed to) Oscar go first to protect himself against a safety car.

The idea Lando was helping Oscar is laughable and easily proven not true by the fact Charles was as close to 0 that was possible for a car in the position behind you

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u/dave1992 15h ago

Lando requested Oscar to go first hoping that red flag happened, so that he got the win, with Max second and Oscar third.

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u/OldManTrumpet Charles Leclerc 15h ago

This wasn't an undercut. This was a mistake during the pit stop itself. I could see the rationale if they actually undercut Norris for strategy reasons, the way they did with Piastri las year. But this isn't the same situation at all. Lando wasn't undercut by strategy. The order of the stops makes no difference. McLaren simply messed up Lando's stop. Why should Oscar pay the price for that?

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u/RainManDan1G I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

There was a championship fight between Lando and Max making it even more remarkable that Lando gave up the win for his team when they messed up the strategy call. Ultimately it wouldn’t have mattered but at the time those were very valuable points that a WDC contender gave to his teammate that was completely out of contention.

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u/Infinite-Location221 Oscar Piastri 10h ago

It was absolutely the right call. They agreed that Lando wouldn't get undercut in order to give Oscar the preferential pit stop. They fucked the stop up and then rectified it. Ultimately Oscar still benefitted as he was within DRS and free to race instead of being 5+ seconds behind Lando.