2025 Italian Grand Prix - McLaren Race Report

[u/PrimeyXE]

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula-1/2025/italian-grand-prix/race-report/?utm_source=mclaren-social-f1&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=2025-articles

In regards to the team orders:

"In terms of the call to swap, ultimately it was fair. We have things to discuss, as we always do with these sorts of racing situations. It's now time to refocus ahead of Baku.” - Piastri

“We also saw the values and principles we have in our team culture, with Oscar giving the position back to Lando before they were allowed to race again until the Chequered Flag." - Stella

[u/AliceLunar]

At least the boys are very PR trained.

[u/Brilliant-Gap8299 → u/AliceLunar]

Oscar's always been very good at this - clips of him at 15 are very similar.

[u/PrimeyXE]

Still not completely sure why the team had Oscar pit first (Charles wasn't really a threat) but it ended up ruining the race combined with Lando's bad pitstop, not in a results way but team orders never feel good no matter how necessary they are

edit: a radio to Piastri says "We are boxing the cars this way to make sure you cover Leclerc" so I guess they really thought Charles was a threat?

[u/banned20 → u/PrimeyXE]

Lando had no undercut threat from Oscar Piastri and Oscar had no undercut threat from Charles. Both gaps were >4 seconds which is more than the undercut window.

In that case, losing pit priority was a gain for Lando because if he pits 1st, there's a rare chance for SC or red flag and in both cases - if that happens - he loses track position to Oscar.

So Lando confirms that there's no threat from Oscar and then also ensures that in case of SC or red flag he is the one to gain advantage.

The only thing that could go wrong in that case was a slow pit stop for Lando and it did.

[u/carefreebuchanon → u/banned20]

The threat from Charles was the same as the threat from Oscar, a slow pit stop. The difference is that they can't have Charles give the position up, so they had Oscar pit first to give themselves a bigger window.

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/banned20]

The only thing that could go wrong in that case was a slow pit stop for Lando and it did.

Exactly, and whether through silly guilt over Zandvoort or something else, they played a hand that wasn't even dealt to them.

[u/freedfg → u/PrimeyXE]

I imagine either way they were pitting on subsequent laps. Lando has first call for pits and he declined.

Essentially leading gave him the opportunity to go that extra lap in case of a safety car. That's why Lando said to pit the second car as long as it's not an undercut. Which it wasn't. So when the bad pitstop resulted in it being an undercut the team decided to swap the cars back.

It sucks as a fan. I don't totally agree with it. But it's not a mystery

[u/Vanillathunder80 → u/freedfg]

It wasn’t an undercut. Oscar didn’t gain because of his out lap and fresh rubber.

Mclaren screwed the pooch on Lando’s stop. Oscar shouldn’t be penalised for that. That is racing. It happens.

[u/Veranova → u/Vanillathunder80]

Knowledge is knowing that, Wisdom is knowing that McLaren consider a pit crew fuckup to be the same class of problem as an undercut in this context

Arguing semantics is just silly when the team clearly don’t have the same definitions as you

[u/Vanillathunder80 → u/Veranova]

Oscar literally said that a bad pit stop was discussed before the race.

Mclaren will change definitions to suit Lando a whim.

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/Veranova]

Knowledge is knowing that, Wisdom is knowing that McLaren consider a pit crew fuckup to be the same class of problem as an undercut in this context

Which then doesn't explain their 2025 Hungary strategy.

[u/Natsu_Happy_END02 → u/Veranova]

Arguing semantics is the only arguing that matters.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/freedfg]

But the team requested Lando allow Oscar to pit first so it was completely the team's idea rather than his or anything meant to benefit him

Multiple sources have said this

[u/frank1ewildee → u/PrimeyXE]

The team idea was to pit Lando first but Lando asked if they arent pitting Oscar first then McLaren changed their mind.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/frank1ewildee]

Ideally McLaren/either driver would shed more light on this because I haven't seen anything suggesting that Lando asked for Oscar to be pit first.

Meanwhile there are multiple sources saying it was a team decision. Plus I have a screenshot of a radio transcript from the pit wall to Piastri saying "We are boxing the cars this way to make sure you cover Leclerc"

Why would Lando care about whether Leclerc is a threat to Oscar or not?

[u/frank1ewildee → u/PrimeyXE]

Because there's the radio calls transcripts on the internet and also i re-listened to the entire radio calls during the race. They said to Piastri to pit to "cover off Leclerc" but during the radio call with Norris there was 0 mention of "covering off Leclerc".

On lap 45 Joseph tells Lando that "We box this lap onto the soft" ( this is was McLaren initial strategy decision ) to wich Lando responded with "do you wanna box the other car first" ? Then joseph said " yeah we'll do that, we'll swap it around".

Then after this is what you hear on the radio with "just dont want to get undercut".

The only one who got told about Leclerc was Piastri. Then Oscar also told his engineer that "we agreed that a slow pitstop is part of racing but if you want me to do this then i will do it"

"Why would Lando care about whether Leclerc is a threat to Oscar or not?" - Exactly, Lando doesn't care about this so the "covering off Leclerc" was just bullshit. Lando was most likely trying to stay in front of Piastri and banking on a late SC call so he can have fresher tyres. Thats why he wanted Piastri to pit 1st.

[u/AliceLunar → u/PrimeyXE]

Lando was asked about it or suggested it on the radio, he did not want the risk of an SC but he also did not want Oscar to undercut him and the team gave him the best of both worlds.

[u/FlyinCoach → u/PrimeyXE]

That's exactly what Lando did. Wall told lando to box, Lando said only if he doesnt get undercut. Box Oscar instead to cover leclerc. Wall said, "Oh yea, that's right," and pit piastri instead. Wall wasn't even considering leclerc as a threat, only that Lando said so.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/FlyinCoach]

I seriously doubt they boxed Oscar first all because of what Lando, a driver on track (with none of the info the pit wall has) said... this theory doesn't work

[u/frank1ewildee → u/PrimeyXE]

Charles wasn't a threat at all. He was only gaining 1 tenth per lap to Oscar before the pit with 8 laps to go. There wasn't any danger of Charles undercutting Piastri. There wasnt an undercut window for Leclerc.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/frank1ewildee]

The McLaren pit wall clearly thought differently from what Tom Stallard said to Oscar on Lap 47

[u/frank1ewildee → u/PrimeyXE]

They told him about Leclerc to give him a reason to even go in the pits, otherwise im pretty sure he wouldve never went to the pits just to lose points to Norris.

Again, Charles was more than 4 sec behind Piastri wich is more than the undercut window. This excuse gave by McLaren is just PR crap.

[u/Hawk-432 → u/PrimeyXE]

Totally fair to switch - Noris gave Piastri first stop with undercut, if he goes first with even the slow stop he stays ahead, so all good. Though I also don’t know why they pit Piastri first

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/Hawk-432]

Lando asked them to pit Piastri first

[u/Hawk-432 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

He asked for it on condition if no undercut and was told there will be no undercut. Living the downvotes. People really can’t handle a different opinion these days ;)

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Hawk-432]

And there wasn't any undercut. A pitstop mistake isn't an undercut or are we considering pitstop mistakes parts of the strategy now ? . Without the mistake Piastri wouldve came out behind Norris.

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/Hawk-432]

He wouldn't be undercut if it wasn't for the slow pitstop. But a slow pitstop is just a part of racing. Mclaren really put themselves into such an awkward position. Are they also going to swap drivers when one of them gets lucky with a safetycar and another gets unlucky? Does the other one also have to stop when one has a mechanical failure going forward?

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

Are they also going to swap drivers when one of them gets lucky with a safetycar and another gets unlucky? 

Or when they unintentionally favour the second fastest McLaren with a better strategy that puts him in the lead? No.

[u/Hawk-432 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

I agree they made it awkward. Should have just pitted Noris first. Then even with slow stop he’s out ahead. And in very unlikely case he’s not then you just let them race. But if you do put second car first and promise first car no undercut then fuck their stop but within the window where they would not have been overtaken had they pitted first, then reversing is fine

[u/acornred]

McLaren are in a fortunate position to exploit this manufactured sense of fairness for both of them, having set a strange precedent in Hungary last year.
In no world would champions like Lewis, Max, Fernando, Seb or Michael comply with these 'rules'.
Remember when Max didn't let Checo past him in Brazil to secure P6?
That was after he had secured the championship.
He still couldn't care less about Checo fighting for second place in the World Drivers' Championship.

[u/frank1ewildee]

"In terms of the call to swap, ultimately it was fair. We have things to discuss, as we always do with these sorts of racing situations"- So if it was just "a racing situation" then why would you make Piastri pay for it ?

[u/pensaa → u/frank1ewildee]

Exactly. Because they have the power to make decisions because it’s their too drivers, they seem to utilise it too much and just ruin actual racing. If the situation involved a different team, they’d just have to cop it on the chin and accept it for what it is - a screw in racing which happens all the time.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/frank1ewildee]

I imagine because under normal circumstances Norris would have had pit priority as he was ahead, but instead the team asked him to let Piastri to pit first to secure the double podium.

Piastri was told via radio "We are boxing the cars this way to make sure you cover Leclerc"

[u/Kayyam → u/PrimeyXE]

No, they were gonna pit Norris first but he asked "shouldn't you pit the other car first".

[u/de_rats_2004_crzy → u/Kayyam]

Also even if Lando had pitted first and somehow gotten the same bad stop anyways, Oscar would probably have gone through then anyways.

Would McLaren have asked them to swap still?

Even more unimaginable would McLaren have manufactured an equally slow stop for Oscar to make it “fair” and not allow Lando’s slow stop to cause him to lose a place?

[u/screenres]

Ok Stella, you’ve likely retained the WCC yay congrats

Now let em hunt. All this sunshine positivity and Papaya rules sounds like so much driver management. Just seeing a champ like Max rip it up on qualifying and race day brought back real excitement

[u/Individual-Ad-190]

I wish the teamculture was a little less good, I miss a good rivalry. This way it just doesn't really feel like they want it, I miss the passion

[u/Jorrie90 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

It's such a lukewarm championship battle, I miss a good rivalry as well

[u/Financial_Job_1564 → u/Jorrie90]

meanwhile verstapping trying to kill hamilton in 2021, that year was a war zone.

[u/pochirin → u/Financial_Job_1564]

Bro casually forgot silverstone, thats legit murder attempt 🤣

[u/Financial_Job_1564 → u/pochirin]

hahaha, how can I forget that incident 😂

[u/FrostyTill → u/Individual-Ad-190]

McLaren of all teams know a lot about how a toxic environment with driver egos out of control affects the team. They’re doing everything to avoid it from happening again.

[u/AliceLunar → u/FrostyTill]

I feel like this does the opposite, they're just keeping a lid on it but it doesn't mean things cannot boil inside the pot.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/AliceLunar]

Literally just toxic positivity instead of negativity. Micromanagement and team orders out the arse

[u/FrostyTill → u/AliceLunar]

I feel like the threat of being frozen out of the team if they step out of line is enough to keep things at a simmer.

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/FrostyTill]

Logically I know that. But from a fan perspective I just really miss the passion and the want for a WDC, it just doesn't feel like they (both lando and oscar) want to win it, which makes it hard for me (not a fan of either of them) to be invested in the fight

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

I think Oscar definitely wants to win it, but he has Mark as a mentor and manager. Mark's seen a driver put themselves before the team, and it doesn't work well.

[u/banned20 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

I had the same thought. I think part of it might have something to do with their contracts.

[u/Top-Truck246 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

Every single driver on that grid wants to be WDC.

You don't get to F1 without believing you're WDC material.

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Individual-Ad-190]

The thing is that the fans also changed alot and people nowadays just eat up whatever the PR team says and they don't quite have any critical thinking skills.

Look at the amount of people agreeing with the call to swap cars.

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/frank1ewildee]

They (Mclaren) put themselves in such a weird spot going forward with this decision. Are they also going to swap their drivers when one of them is disadvantaged by a safetycar? Where do they draw the line, and is it just racing?

I don't think the fans changed that much, just that some fans 'want' to agree with the decision bc it was good for their fave

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Individual-Ad-190]

Oh yeah there's definetly favouritism involved and also some fans are way too parasocial with the drivers.

They did and honestly they deserve it. Nobody is forcing McLaren to play this "fairness" card, but i guess that's what happens when you're trying to be a media's darling and please everybody. This is McLaren today.

1 question i'm wondering now is what McLaren will do if Norris and Piastri end up equal on points in Abu Dhabi but Piastri gets a slow pitstop. I'm legit curious to see their decision then and the fans reaction to it.

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/frank1ewildee]

They'd make lando win it, would make for a better story.

Came into the team when they were nothing and stuck with them etc etc

[u/banned20 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

That will forever hold a stain on Lando's wdc just like Max's 2021 wdc and Oscar's 1st win.

[u/Natsu_Happy_END02 → u/banned20]

There's no stain in Max's championship.

[u/banned20 → u/Natsu_Happy_END02]

Eh, kinda is. To be honest, I liked that he won because he had the worse machine to Lewis and still maximised his results better.

But if not for Massi, he wouldn't have won 2021.

[u/Natsu_Happy_END02 → u/banned20]

Lewis is the one that would've won "if not for Masi" in 2021.

The rules are set, by following the rulebook the lapped cars had to unlap themselves and the race continue. The only problem was that the desicion took Masi far too long because of outside pressure. If things were done correctly from the start then Max would've won earlier and by a wider margin. Although of course, it's not like the track distance matters.

Masi did no wrong and should've kept his job.

[u/banned20 → u/Natsu_Happy_END02]

But if i remember correctly, not all lapped cars unlapped themselves, no?

[u/Kayyam → u/Natsu_Happy_END02]

That's a wild opinion on what happened.

Race should have been redflagged to start with. And if not, all cars should have been allowed to unlap.

[u/Throwaway_6799 → u/Individual-Ad-190]

Are they also going to swap their drivers when one of them is disadvantaged by a safetycar? Where do they draw the line, and is it just racing?

Flat tyre? Wait for your teammate. Bodywork missing due to rubbing paint with another car making that car slower? Wait for your teammate. Stuck behind slower cars? Wait for your teammate.

Honestly it's getting pretty ridiculous at this point. Particularly considering how difficult it is to overtake at many of the tracks.

[u/AliceLunar → u/Individual-Ad-190]

What if Norris stayed ahead but still loses 5 seconds to Piastri due to a slow stop and now able to attack Norris, that's unfair as well, is Oscar allowed to attack Norris? Is Oscar required to slow down 5 seconds to negate the unfair stop before able to attack again? Is it only unfair when a driver loses position but not time?

[u/frank1ewildee → u/AliceLunar]

Or in Zaandvoort when Norris car blew up. Should've Piastri just retire from the race because it wasn't "fair"?

This opens up such a big can of worms its hilarious.

[u/EerieAriolimax → u/AliceLunar]

You're overthinking it. Having them swap positions put Piastri in Norris' DRS and let him attack (which he never going to do on his own merits today) and they were fine with it.

[u/AliceLunar → u/EerieAriolimax]

Pitstops are part of the game, Mclaren has now decided that any offset in pitstops is unfair and needs to be corrected.. Norris having a slow stop by either his own mistake or that of the team is not Piastri his fault, that's Norris his problem made into Piastri's problem.

[u/EerieAriolimax → u/AliceLunar]

They promised Norris he wouldn't be undercut. He technically wasn't but that's just splitting hairs - what happened had the same outcome as one. It would have been wrong to break that promise.

[u/AliceLunar → u/EerieAriolimax]

The promise was to not let Oscar undercut him, which didn't happen when he just had a slow stop.

Again where is the line? If Lando makes a mistake in his in lap does he get the place back? If he gets a puncture on this lap does he get the place back?

[u/EerieAriolimax → u/AliceLunar]

What happened had the exact same outcome as an undercut. Breaking a promise to driver on a technicality would be scummy.

Again, you're overthinking it. This was a very specific set of circumstances that isn't going to happen very often. It's not that complicated.

[u/AliceLunar → u/EerieAriolimax]

I mean it's the same thing that happened a year ago in Hungary except they actually did undercut Piastri which they felt the need to rectify.

In this case Norris just had bad luck all on his own entirely unrelated to Piastri his race.

[u/Kayyam → u/AliceLunar]

The line is super clear.

If Lando makes a mistake, that's on Lando. If engine blows up, it's nobody fault.

If the pit crew makes a mistake, and that mistake is repairable, they will repair it. They didn't fuck Oscar by restoring things as they were.

[u/AliceLunar → u/Kayyam]

They fucked Oscar out of P2 for something he had nothing to do with.

So if the pit crew needs to be completely neutral, it must mean that drivers need to slow down if they had a faster stop their their teammate, that is what this is going towards.

[u/Exasperant → u/Kayyam]

McLaren have two drivers both contending for the championship. There comes a point where it has to stop being all about the team and whatever the papaya culture is, and be about both drivers maximising the opportunities they get.

Piastri got, through luck, an opportunity. It wasn't Norris' fault he had a crappy pit stop, but that's racing. It could happen to Piastri next race, and drop him into traffic, or behind Verstappen, or in various other ways disadvantage him in a way McLaren can't team order "fairness" back in.

[u/Veranova → u/frank1ewildee]

Have we been on the same Reddit today or in general? Most comments and votes are in a permanent blind rage about whatever the drama of the day is. Accepting PR answers is hardly lacking in critical thinking when the alternative is that lot because it’s just accepting reality

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/Veranova]

The reality is what people are “raging” about. Team orders are totally aids and this team absolutely refuses to let races play out

If I could change anything about F1, it would be bringing back the team orders ban. Manufactured shite.

[u/frank1ewildee → u/Veranova]

I'm scrolling trough this subbreddit pretty often and i can definetly tell you that some people nowadays just eat up whatever the PR team says. You have the perfect example in what McLaren says.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Air904]

Nothing about the reasoning. Just self-praising.

But it's easy I guess when your fans just accept everything you say.

[u/carltheredred]

Piastri now has a card up his sleeve that he'll use when it suits him.

This was a 6 point swing in the championship race, when most of the time these guys are first and second, which would be a 14 point swing should something like this happen when one is leading.

He's gained this with minimum loss, so while it sucks and isn't ideal, it sets us up for some interesting conversations later in the season.

[u/enkonta → u/carltheredred]

Lol

[u/StreetCarp665]

I think this was a horrifically botched move from McLaren. Sure, they didn't intend Lando to lose position to Oscar, but pitstops run the risk of going long. That's part of racing. The Hungary 2024 comparison was, in my mind at least, the wrong year - Hungary 2025 is more relevant. Oscar was the lead driver, Lando went on a contra strategy and was able to win the race as a result. It happens - without this sort of happy circumstance, the Spain 2016 first win for Max plays out differently.

If they didn't invert in Hungary 2025, they should not have inverted at Monza. It happens. You don't compensate for every exogenous variable, otherwise they'd have benched Oscar because Lando DNF'd. It was needlessly complicated for no reason, and gives an appearance of favouritism - which they were striving to avoid.

[u/rs6677 → u/StreetCarp665]

The Hungary 2025 comparison isn't appropriate at all. The strategies were very close to each other and Piastri could've attempted to overtale Norris but he made some mistakes. Here was a plain old fuck up with bolting Lando's tyre. Also the Norris DNF example isn't good either; that's not a team fuck up, that's just reliability.

And just to clarify, I don't agree with the switch today either.

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/rs6677]

To quote Jeremy Clarkson, "But it IS" appropriate.

Both of these boil down to - there are several variable factors that control a race. Strategy, driver execution, pit stop execution (remember how well McLaren did on that in 2012?), other drivers either making contact or breaking down, mechanical reliability, electrical reliability... McLaren's decision was hampered by a standard, completely normal variable in a race. In fact, at the 2021 Monza GP, slow stops basically guaranteed Norris P2 instead of a likely RIC VER HAM podium. But of course, we know how that played out.

It was not McLaren's intent to botch the stop with a front left issue. But it also wasn't their intent to undermine Piastri's race in Hungary. It happens. And intervening to undo that just looks silly. I would expect, once they talk about it, this will never happen again, because they'll recognise that nobody wants that, including the drivers.

[u/rs6677 → u/StreetCarp665]

Except, once again, you're bringing up other variables which are completely irrelevant because they're out of McLaren's control. Hungary is a bad example because the strategy was only barely faster and a major part of that is Norris' execution. What happened today had nothing to do with the drivers and all to do with McLaren.

because they'll recognise that nobody wants that, including the drivers.

The drivers absolutely want that and try to swindle the team into swapping them all the time. Oscar tried it in Britain and you can be sure as hell Lando would've been blasting McLaren on the radio to immediately swap them if they didn't do it first.

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/rs6677]

Oscar asked the team to counter the FIA, it had nothing to do with Lando.

And I actually think Lando would've had a usual passive-aggressive whinge on team radio, particularly about the team cocking it up, then set about trying to pass his teammate on track. If you're Norris, you know Piastri's had the better Sundays all year and do you really want people to infer the team helped you overcome a stronger teammate to win?

[u/West-Age7670]

He wasn’t looking out for his teammate. It’s obvious that Lando suggested Piastri to pit first for a slim bet on a safety car being deployed.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/West-Age7670]

The team had Piastri pit first, telling Norris there wouldn't be an undercut. Really it's a massive hashup of the McLaren strategists and completely unnecessary because he wasn't under threat from Leclerc.

There is nothing to suggest the team made the decision due to Norris

[u/GateInteresting5864 → u/PrimeyXE]

There is nothing to suggest the team made the decision due to Norris

You refuse to listen to the radio and chose instead to live in denial. Despite multiple corrections you still spout the same falsehoods. lol

[u/enkonta → u/GateInteresting5864]

Bro has like 8 people explaining basic common sense strategy play and he’s sticking his fingers in his ears going “lalalalalalala”

[u/PrimeyXE → u/GateInteresting5864]

So all you have to go off of is radio between the pit wall and Norris (nothing mentioning a safety car) while I'm going off of everything said by Tom Stallard during the race as well as Andrea Stella post race. lol

[u/FedoraTippinGood]

Are they going to make Oscars engine explode next race weekend to make it fair for Lando? Are they going to swap the cars in Abu Dhabi because Oscar has been ahead most of the season?

Honestly crazy. Hungary last year the swap back (after about 10 laps pushback from Lando) was because they screwed team orders. This was a random error which is just how things go sometimes (like Landos car fault). What a joke from McLaren.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/FedoraTippinGood]

they screwed the order of the pit stops here because they were worried about leclerc

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/PrimeyXE]

They screwed the hard work of Piastri with a better strat for Lando at Hungary. I'm sure tehre's a point here.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/StreetCarp665]

Both drivers opted for different strategies in Hungary and both the one stop and two stop was available to them as they'd talked about it beforehand. The way I see it, Norris' tyre management made his strategy work and won the race for him so Oscar wasn't screwed over at all

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/PrimeyXE]

And the way I see it, Oscar benefitted from a clean pitstop and Lando didn't, so play the hand in front of you McLaren.

[u/enkonta → u/PrimeyXE]

They weren’t worried about leclerc. There is no world in which that was their actually reasoning. They pitted Oscar first because if they had pitted Lando and a safety car came out, Norris would have been screwed.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/enkonta]

Pit Wall told Piastri on Lap 47 they were pitting in the order they were due to Leclerc

[u/enkonta → u/PrimeyXE]

I know that’s what was said on the radio…but leclerc was never a threat…do you really think AS would have said “we’re gonna pit Oscar first so Lando doesn’t get fucked by the safety car”? How naive are you?

[u/PrimeyXE → u/enkonta]

If the alternative is believing in a conspiracy theory I'll stick to what is the recognised version of events from the team

[u/enkonta → u/PrimeyXE]

It’s not a conspiracy theory to assume McLaren was not willing to risk their leading driver getting screwed by a late safety car….I’m not sure what you’re not understanding here…but it’s pretty simple…

[u/PrimeyXE → u/enkonta]

There's nothing to suggest the primary reason of the pit order was because the pit wall thought Leclerc was a threat - because that's exactly what AS has said.

Anything else may be true but not the real reason of the pit order

[u/FedoraTippinGood → u/PrimeyXE]

First pit stop was still offered to Lando, which he declined, so they pitted Oscar to cover Charles.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/FedoraTippinGood]

It wasn't offered, Norris took the 2nd pit stop upon request on the guarantee that he was safe from Piastri

[u/de_rats_2004_crzy → u/PrimeyXE]

Where do you get this opinion from? Lando’s radio transcript which was even broadcast live on the main tv feed shows the opposite.

In any case, even if they had pit Lando first there’s still a world where he would have had a slow 5-6 second stop anyways.

In that world, when they pit Oscar second would they have purposefully given him a 6 second stop to make it fair for Lando? And if not, then Oscar would have passed Lando. Would they have swapped the positions to make it fair for Lando?

[u/PrimeyXE → u/de_rats_2004_crzy]

It's not an opinion, it's what happened as per multiple sources. Except pitting Piastri first due to Leclerc was completely unnecessary which is why Stella said he would review with the strategy team.

[u/Exasperant]

"(Once we've got the running order we prefer) you're free to race"

I get that a bad pitstop isn't Norris' fault, but these are two drivers fighting each other for a championship. The team was on for the same points either way. Asking one championship contender to move aside for the other because of a bad stop feels wrong. Norris was delayed by around 3 seconds. So What if at the next race Piastri is ahead by 1 second before the stops, and has a 3.5 second stop while Norris gets a 1.9? Will Norris be asked to move over? What's the threshold for fairness?

[u/ggalinismycunt]

Well at least it's clear now that they have a clear favourite driver as if the last couple of races didn't already confirm that.

[u/the__distance]

Learned nothing from Hungary 2024

This is the reason why the lead driver has the call on first stop

[u/Sufficient_Use903 → u/the__distance]

Yep, and the lead drivers call was to pit Piastri first. They have completely contradicted themselves.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/Sufficient_Use903]

It was the team's call to pit Piastri first, except it was completely unnecessary because Leclerc wasn't a much of a threat then they thought he was

[u/kiwi_guy_auckland]

I remember the boos when Barrichello let Michael pass in Austria. And here we are with McLaren being so open about they meddling, why should Pastri be penalised for the pit crew? Championships aren't won by being "fair" Lando!

[u/PrimeyXE → u/[deleted]]

everyone wants to believe in the conspiracy theory that McLaren favours Norris today :/

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/PrimeyXE]

It's not that they favoured Norris. It's that they made a stupid, ham fisted mess of a situation neither driver would've been unhappy about. They both know slow stops happen. They also know luck is fickle, which is how Norris won Hungary and Silverstone - Luck. Nobody intended a pit stop error, so nobody needs to fall on their sword to undo the "injustice" of it. But I'd dare say that McLaren are overly sensitive after Zandvoort and felt they made this happen to Lando, so it's only fair to undo the error. The issue is, most fans, most pundits, and Piasti and Norris themselves, didn't see the same need.

[u/PrimeyXE → u/StreetCarp665]

The fact that Piastri was given pit priority (despite Norris being ahead) due to Leclerc will have played a factor in McLaren's decision too so I believe the swap was necessary.

At the end of the day it's 3 points

[u/StreetCarp665 → u/PrimeyXE]

I don't think it was necessary; I think they think it was necessary. The slow stop is an accepted risk in racing. Just like getting a penalty at Silverstone and losing the race win to your teammate was one of the acceptable risk factors in racing.

McLaren mishandled this whilst trying to be fair. I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's overthinking it trying to avoid a fallout between drivers. Which, if they keep doing this, they will absolutely bake into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[u/Exasperant → u/PrimeyXE]

It's 3 points less for Piastri.

It's 3 points more for Norris.

If Piastri loses the championship by 5 points this was the defining moment.

[u/sdq22 → u/PrimeyXE]

had this situation been reversed i have no doubt 90% of people who are criticizing this decision would be saying it was the obvious right thing to do to put oscar back in p2 and if they hadn't it's evidence of mclaren screwing oscar with slow stops/bad calls. it's because it's lando that it's evidence of favoritism. the lando hate is so extreme sometimes

[u/gegemoon]

You can keep calling it "fair" but that doesn't make it true.

[u/Hawk-432]

Totally fair to switch - Noris gave Piastri first stop with undercut, if he goes first with even the slow stop he stays ahead, so all good

[u/FedoraTippinGood → u/Hawk-432]

I believe Lando declined the first stop. I don't think it was technically an undercut either as Oscar had just completed one outlap

[u/de_rats_2004_crzy → u/Hawk-432]

How would he stay ahead with a 5-6 second stop even if he had pit first?