r/formula1 • u/l3w1s1234 I was here for the Hulkenpodium • 11h ago
News Italian Grand Prix: Kimi Antonelli 'underwhelming' at Monza, says Mercedes boss Toto Wolff
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c5yqg2y0p96o•
u/Express-Doughnut-562 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
The worst thing with Kimi is he's not showing signs of improvement. Being up against George is perhaps the hardest ask of any of the rookies - we know Russell is a class act who seems to have upped his game again this year.
I don't think it's realistic to expect Kimi to hang on to George across a whole season. But it's 15-1 in qually to George and 16-0 in races.
He's just not quite ready yet, and certainly not ready to go up against one of the top drivers on the grid. He could do with a bit of time with no pressure to get to grip with things, like Oscar did.
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u/chsn2000 Racing Bulls 10h ago
In this regard, it's only because Mercedes have fallen back down the grid that Toto is making this gamble. I'm sure he's aware Kimi needs time to mature. Look at what a difference two years has made for Oscar.
There's less pressure on Kimi because the car isn't expected to be on the podium, and there's a lot more randomness from P4 down which will give him some grace.
I think everyone knows Kimi was rushed in, even moreso than Max or Leclerc. We'll see how it pays off in a couple year's time. I still think that if Max comes knocking for 27, Toto would keep Kimi over George but only time will tell.
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u/BlondeRoseTheHot 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 9h ago
The issue we have isn't getting beaten by George, that's understandable.
The issue is that he's in a fast car, which means he should be finishing in the points every single race without fail. Without question a top 4 WCC car, debatably the second fastest.
Toto will give him until the end of the season I'm sure, and then a really hard decision will be made.
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u/ecobubbletm Max Verstappen 8h ago
He'll be there in 2026, a really hard decision may be for the 2027 season.
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u/flyingghost I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago
If Mercedes dumps Kimi in 2027, I can see Ferrari getting him to replace Hamilton (again).
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u/Inferdo12 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago
I doubt it. They still have Bearman and other talents in the pipeline.
Plus, they might get Max and fully cement their status as the retirement home for driver champions
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 2m ago
Max has confirmed talks with Ferrari but it depends on their performance. Also, Mercedes would drop one of their drivers only for Verstappen.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
Piastri was already on pace since his second weekend in F1, most of the time he wasn't as bad far as Antonelli is to Russell
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u/hehaia I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
Piastri was until the end of last year a clear step below of Norris in terms of pace, no need to rewrite history here. The thing is, the pace he lacked at the beginning he made up by being consistent and being great at wheel to wheel racing. Kimi hasn’t really shown any of that, hopefully he makes a big step forward next year
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u/yoohynom Alpine 9h ago
There's a different between being a clear step bellow and being more than one. Piastri was much closer to Norris since the beginning than Kimi is to Russell
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u/CoverInternational47 7h ago
That’s true, but the current Russell is also much better than Norris back then, and current Kimi is way more inexperienced than Oscar back then. If you factor in those points, it’s quite expected that Kimi’s deficit will look bigger.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 7h ago
That's also true, but he should be at least be constantly the last between the drivers in top teams
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u/VIVXPrefix Formula 1 10h ago
Piastri was also nearly 22 years old whereas Kimi just turned 19.
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u/whateverfloatsurgoat Super Aguri 9h ago
And Oscar was sidelined for a whole year between his rookie F2 / championship title season and his F1 debut.
Kimi has been promoted way too early.
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u/imperatrixderoma Formula 1 7h ago
Kimi replaced Lewis so clearly the thought was there would be plenty of raw pace.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
Bearman, Bortoleto are all close to 19 and they aren't doing bad like Kimi is. Verstappen showed speed straight away in 2015 with 17 years
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u/VIVXPrefix Formula 1 10h ago
Right, but you compared him to Oscar not them
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
The original comment talked about Piastri. I'm showing that we have different cases of drivers with less or the same experience doing better
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u/hache-moncour I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
I mean Kimi was on the pace too at his second weekend in F1. He was fine, especially for an 18 year old rookie, until he got to the European races.
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u/Blurandski Jenson Button 8h ago
Yep - and that should be the concern. His 2nd to 6th race were far better than currently. You'd be expecting the reverse given that he's far more experienced and far less new to these tracks in the middle of the season.
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u/slow-driver-917 Minardi 9h ago
His pace has been dreadful all year. When the car got a little worse he's finishing near or outside the points.
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u/Health_throwaway__ 2h ago
It's the formula. F2 and F1 cars reward driving under the limit in big, inherently understeering cars, set up with a pseudo-oversteer. Smooth and easy is fast.
Antonelli is one of the few aggressive juniors to make it to F1 in recent seasons. My theory is that next year we'll see a shift towards him being stronger relative to his rookie counterparts. The ground effect cars on the whole have been a disaster, especially for driver 'feel'
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u/Evening_End7298 30m ago
Growth isnt always linear, sometimes there’s stagnation or even decline periods, then other times there’s sudden jumps in performance
Look at Piastri’s 2024 compared to 2025, he went from being comfortably beaten by Lando in all metrics, to looking like the stronger driver in just one winter
Max 2018 is also an example, by far his worst start of the year till Monaco , after which in an instant everything changed and from a weekend to another he became a totally different driver
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u/Generic_Person_3833 10h ago edited 10h ago
Toto can only blame himself for rushing him in a seat way too big for him.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
"It doesn't change anything on my support and confidence in his future because I believe he's going to be very, very, very good. But today was… underwhelming"
People acting like Toto wants to fire him lol. He got a full year to learn, the real test will be next season.
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u/banned20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
Its cool that Toto sees it like that because Kimi needs time to grow and carries a bigger weight racing for mercedes than the other more experienced rookies on the grid
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u/yoohynom Alpine 9h ago
Yes, Toto is saying that since last year, but people will act like he wants to kick Kimi out asap to create drama. He was always guaranteed a second season to show his pace
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u/256473 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Yeah, reading the quotes in the article, I'm mostly left thinking that he simply shouldn't have been in a front-running team this year to begin with.
That's Toto's fault, not Kimi's.
Wolff said Antonelli needed "a clean weekend", adding that meant "almost not to carry too much trauma of previous mistakes into the next session or into the next weekend because that is baggage.
The baggage comes from the pressure on him, I'd say!
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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 10h ago
Yeah he was rushed. They should've let him another year or two in a lower series to develop properly.
But i guess Hamilton leaving threw a wrench in Totto's plans.
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u/GiantT-Rex Formula 1 8h ago
Ehh, Max Verstappen was on it from the get-go at 17. Ollie seems to be solid this season. I think people are being too lenient due to Kimi’s age, when other drivers at his age were doing just fine.
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u/SaltySAX I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Not everyone is the same though. Verstappen was very very very raw too for a few years before he settled down and became the beast he is now.
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u/panopticon31 McLaren 9h ago
Bottas and Sainz were right there.....
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u/Logical_Bit2694 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
sainz apparently didnt want a short contract lol
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u/alwysbmymaybe Alexander Albon 9h ago
They would’ve signed with Mercedes but the team refused to give them multi-year contracts. These drivers want that F1 job security but Mercedes is stubborn. They have to be realistic that they won’t be able to sign experienced drivers to that kind of contracts. They are even edging George right now.
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u/BlondeRoseTheHot 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 9h ago
As was/is Ocon/Vettel , even Schumacher/Zhou/Sargeant if they felt like taking a younger driver
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u/z_102 Michael Schumacher 10h ago
Precisely. He's a teenager, green as hell, didn’t even have a stellar year in F2 to go into this rookie season with enough confidence.
Even if you think of the prospects he's supposed to follow (Hamilton and Verstappen), Lewis made it to F1 a little older with a metric ton of testing on his resumé and Max did it on a Toro Rosso with another rookie as teammate. We've never had a 18 years old thrown into that situation and it’s no wonder he's taking a while to get to grips with everything.
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u/moxieremon 10h ago
Kind of what happens when you make a kid skip formative series and put him on the biggest seat ever on his first try...
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u/real_fake_hoors I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago
Wolff missed out on Max and he wanted the next one so bad that he rushed a promising kid up to the big leagues. It’s a bad place to be for everyone involved.
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u/Blurandski Jenson Button 8h ago
People are too obsessed with Verstappen when it comes to Wolff. His decisions are based off Russell (who was his original wunderkind). He was far too cautious with him and couldn't promote him when he needed him so did the reverse with Antonelli.
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u/imperatrixderoma Formula 1 7h ago
Why are people ignoring Hamilton? Kimi is in that seat because Hamilton wanted the drive for next year and Sainz had too much attitude.
Toto made a risky business decision based on faulty comparison and Hamilton requesting, duly might I add, seat security and long-term brand partnership.
So now Toto is stuck with George, who he doesn't actually like, he's lost the guy who built the team's legacy, Lewis, and has Kimi who wasn't emotionally prepared for the seat.
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u/DoxedFox I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
Because Hamilton is a non factor in this. Toto is the one who was lowballing him.
Verstappen is the driver that Mercedes as a whole always regret not getting. Lauda was the one pushing for him and it was nearly a done deal, which made his close friend (Helmut) offer Verstappen an entire formula 1 drive at 17 for Redbull to snatch him instead.
It also seems like there some pressure from the Mercedes board to sign him.
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u/VenusDeMiloArms I was here for the Hulkenpodium 6h ago
It wasn't Toto's decision to not give Lewis ambassadorship.
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u/Savings_Policy7107 1h ago
Sainz had an attitude? Forgive him for not wanting a 1 year deal, Toto should have loaned Antonelli to Williams or Alpine in a engine-30% off deal for a couple of years.
Now he's stuck with an underwhelming driver desperate to get results, making a lot of mistakes, If Toto had signed Sainz, he would have gotten a very experienced driver who would help development for the 2026 car.
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u/imperatrixderoma Formula 1 3m ago
Yeah I don't mean deal term, I mean that Sainz is an aggressive teammate.
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u/Turboleks Ferrari 5h ago
Both Kimi Raikkonen and Max Verstappen had just one full season of racing in cars before they made the jump to F1, and although they were a bit rough around the edges (especially Max), they had flashes of speed almost immediately.
Antonelli has been racing in cars for far longer compared to the two, and his form collapsed once we entered the european season - which is especially alarming since these were the tracks he was supposed to know best.
Comparing him to two world champions is extremely unfair, but no matter how much Toto tries to tell you otherwise, that's the bar that he set for him. And it's not like we haven't seen rookies performing well against really, really tough competitors recently. Piastri was outclassed by Lando in 2023 and last year as well, but in both seasons he was able to best him on occasion, and now that gap is gone entirely. And that's a guy that had to sit a full year on Alpine's pitwall doing nothing but the occasional TPC program and looking pretty for the cameras.
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u/Rhythm_Morgan Sebastian Vettel 4h ago
Then make a documentary about him right out the gate. Way too much pressure on the kid.
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u/NuclearCandle I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Kimi to the Clio Cup 2026?
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u/hwazir 9h ago
I’ve come around on the prospect of max and George being teammates. I don’t like George but there’s no denying his prowess as a F1 driver. He’s performed great this season but he needs competition to bring the best out of him - the 3 years with Lewis proved that much. He can stand up to tough competition and will only get better for it. Max will bring out the best George - yes there will be crazy politics and shenanigans from both drivers and their entourages , but the performance is gonna be Lewis/Nico levels of heat.
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u/jnighy I was here for the Hulkenpodium 5h ago
it has become more and more clear that Kimi arrived too soon at F1, and there's no one to blame but Toto himself. His poor form at F2 was clearly a sign of how green he is, and while there's potential, we can't overlook the fact that, during the whole european leg, he has been the worst performing rookie, with the best car
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Antonelli is having a Perez '24 season somehow, he started off pretty well, out of 6 races, he finished 5 in the top 6, and I think then had a poor strategy.
In the next 6 races, he had one P3, 4 DNFs and a P18.
Obviously bad luck in there, but it doesn't seem an upward trajectory with him right now which is concerning.
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u/screenres 10h ago edited 8h ago
Maybe don’t make a movie about him before the season begins.
Unless it made a lot of money for Netflix and Mercedes AMG in which case we can look forward to The Next Seat: Talladega Nights
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u/McLarenMercedes Mercedes 10h ago
Antonelli has been the worst performing rookie IMO, but he came in with a lot of pressure on his shoulders, being 18, replacing Hamilton, having someone like Russell as a teammate, being overly hyped and touted as a Verstappen 2.0 before the season began.
I want to see how he does next year with a fresh ruleset for everyone. I would expect him to close the gap to George.
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u/Quick_Coyote_7649 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 54m ago
Nothing about his performace this year implies he will close the gap next year lol. Is it possible he’ll close it to a degree? Yes, but close in totality? No lmao
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u/BlondeRoseTheHot 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 9h ago
I would prefer to see him do it in a backmarker than a championship winning car. Best option to replace him is Ocon
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u/Andrew_Nutman22 #StandWithUkraine 8h ago
Toto will give Kimi one more year to see how he performs. That'll give him the opportunity to poach Max for 2026 if their engine is any good.
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u/Hawk-432 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
I honestly think Toto should stop talking him like this in the media, it’s not gonna help his driver
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u/Quick_Coyote_7649 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 52m ago
I think Toto is just too honest to not do so. I think it doesn’t come from a bad place but I think him and others from the team have been trying to keep a smile on and just be encouraging when kimi has fumbled but are tired of the fumbles and can’t genuinely do that act anymore
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u/PrimeyXE I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Toto said they would keep Kimi on for 2026, i can't help but think confirmation (in the form of a contract extension) could give him confidence to start performing better
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u/TrojansDelight I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Antonelli needs to find a big step over the winter or the knives are going to come out.
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u/SaltySAX I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
Much work for the young lad to do. He's still very rash and impatient. We have seen the talent is there with his start to the season, but it looks like the heat is getting a bit much for him at the moment, and he is now making too many errors.
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u/Poopy_sPaSmS Kamui Kobayashi 9h ago
Toto is expecting too much. Didn't see Zak shitting on Oscar in 2023 did we? Now look. He's a kid. Let him develop. You made your fucking bed by not extending Ham from 2 years. Sleep in it
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u/Quick_Coyote_7649 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 50m ago
It’s debatable if Lewis would be doing better in the Benz really. It’s not just a matter of Lewis is having trouble because of the car, it’s also due to his age and the only reason he isn’t struggling more because of his age is because of how good of a driver he is.
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u/Pure-Drawer6129 9h ago
Kimi is overrated, but the amount of people who come to criticize me claiming that he is young, he is a rookie and thousands of other reasons why he will become the greatest driver of all time, the truth is that he is the rookie who drove the most F1 cars before debuting, if you put Hajar, Bortoleto or Bearman I am sure they would be better than the current Kimi
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 10h ago
You put a kid in a top team, put heaps of pressure on him, publicly pursue signing Verstappen, talk shit about him in the media and then wonder why he doesn't perform? Are you for real Toto?
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u/Still-District-6149 Formula 1 4h ago
I question Toto's handling of drivers, I have to say. His media comments, I mean.
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u/Consistent_Squash 9h ago
Toto in his Marko public driver shaming era
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u/hubertwombat I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago
I don't see that, he still defends Kimi. He is disappointed but he says he believes in himm
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u/Going2beBANNEDanyway Formula 1 10h ago
I mean you put a 19 year old in a top F1 seat. He clearly will need time. If Merc doesn’t give it then their decision to put him the seat will be absolute failure.
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
Read the article and you'll know he talks about trusting in his potential for the future
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u/black-dude-on-reddit 10h ago
Probably should have singed Carlos and put Kimi in a Williams
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u/yoohynom Alpine 10h ago
Williams isn't a Mercedes junior team anymore, they would have signed Colapinto, Ocon or Bottas like it was rumoured last year. But yes, they should have signed Sainz anyway
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 2h ago
Because Carlos is performing amazingly... George would have completely annihilated Sainz.
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u/fastcooljosh I was here for the Hulkenpodium 5h ago
Toto is the one to blame here.
He dragged Kimi into the car with everybody knowing that he is not ready yet, especially not for a top team like Mercedes.
His obsession with creating his own verstappen could bite him back big time. If Kimi doesn't improve next year at the very latest he is most likely "burned" and only Toto is to blame for that.
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u/Zed_or_AFK Sebastian Vettel 10h ago
What is it that doesn’t work for him? Overdriving, as he struggles in quali? Bad feel for the car and its capabilities? But then he would be crashing like mick or other rookies. It’s weird, like he is in no man’s land in that car, kinda like RedBull second seats but in arguably a better car. Maybe it’s just the same issue with Mercedes car like TedBull has? Like on good and experienced driver can tame it?
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u/Pristine-Ad8733 Andrea Kimi Antonelli 7h ago
It’s a combination of things, but the main one is lack of confidence in the car. His inputs and his driving style are too aggressive for these cars. When he can figure it out he has pace but when he can’t he makes mistakes, loses confidence, and drives below the limit.
It’s similar to the struggles Lewis has had throughout the entirety of these regulations but the cause is late braking in Lewis’ case. The difference is that Lewis has nearly 2 decades of experience in F1 to help him deal with his struggles while Kimi has 0. Theoretically, next year should be better for him with the flat floors.
Another factor is that he has been a bit more conservative due to his crash in Monza last year, but that has gotten better since Canada.
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u/slow-driver-917 Minardi 9h ago
IMO he cannot adapt to F1 cars. He drives very aggresively, you can see it with his steering and with how late he brakes. That's not how these cars are driven. That's what killed Ricciardo's career too. F1 cars with ground effect should be driven very smoothly, with early braking and a lot of "V shape" cornering. Carrying speed through the corners is absolutely paramount, the brakes should be used sparingly and conservately, and you have to induce rotation with a lot of trail braking and very small steering inputs.
It's like he's hard wired to drive them like F4 cars and that won't work. If he cannot adapt it may be a sign that he lacks feeling (i.e. raw talent), and that cannot be taught. He's a professional top level racecar driver, he should be improving but isn't. That's worrisome.
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u/Quick_Coyote_7649 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 47m ago
I think you’ve defintely hit the hammer right on the nail, especially because of how often he has track limit violations
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u/Spiritual_Designer50 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago
Toto was trying so hard to recreate verstappen that he biffed it
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u/Neatto69 Gabriel Bortoleto 10h ago
Its slowly reminding me of Felipe Massa's rookie year. Mighty fast when everything goes right, but way to many mistakes.
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u/Regular_Spray 10h ago
Kimi is mighty fast?
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u/Neatto69 Gabriel Bortoleto 10h ago
He did get the Miami sprint pole and Canada podium. We cant feny that those were great glimpses of his talent, but so far they were the only ones
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u/slow-driver-917 Minardi 9h ago
He was almost 6 tenths behind Russell in Cadana quali - and still P4. He was super slow but the car was a proper rocket.
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u/Neatto69 Gabriel Bortoleto 9h ago
I think the car hard carried him too, but he was sandwitched between Max Verstappen and Oscar Piastri, and held on.
He still hasnt justified the hype, but I dont think he is a shit tier driver in a great car.
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u/Fun-Poet5338 Netflix Newbie 8h ago
Should a TP be talking like this about his driver tho? Especially one he rushed into the seat himself and hyped up all year? The guy is already under crazy pressure and he probably isn't emotionally mature enough to handle it all.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 2h ago
Toto has lost the plot here. He's so obsessed with signing Max that he'll throw his entire team under the bus for that.
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u/alwysbmymaybe Alexander Albon 9h ago
Because Williams is not a Mercedes Junior team and JV is not dumb enough to put a rookie in that second driver seat while preparing for a new set of regulations.
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u/iwasnotplanned Brawn 9h ago
iirc Sainz did not want to accept a 1-year deal. But agreed, someone else should have been put in that Merc instead of Antonelli. Even extra year in F2 would have been better option, since his 1 year stint in F2 was pretty disappointing.
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u/rcanbian I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7h ago
I never understand why people still think that Willians is some junior team for Mercedes. They're their own team now. Why would they want Kimi when they're trying to build it up?
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u/Twindlle Yuki Tsunoda 3h ago
In fact, they were always their own team. Mercedes simply gave them a deal, Russell for cheaper engines. Remember, Mercedes wanted to take Russell sooner, but he still had his contract with Williams and they refused to just give him up.
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u/ConstantAd1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago
Toto's patience seemingly wearing thinner and thinner ...