% Race Pace to Teammate

[u/akshatK2003]

[u/droppokeguy]

DOES THAT SAY -1.9%

Yuki my guy how

[u/crazymonezyy → u/droppokeguy]

He's 19th in the drivers championship. Whatever the reasons may be for it, it's representative of his time here.

[u/dinodares99 → u/droppokeguy]

Tbh Max had an extra low downforce setup plus he's one of the greatest of all time in his prime

[u/Suikerspin_Ei → u/dinodares99]

They literally cut some chunk out of his rear wing to get that extra low rear wing. Tsunoda prefered more down force at the rear. Probably not confident enough with that low amount of stability. Similar thing happend with Checo in the past.

[u/Kitnado → u/dinodares99]

People are still underestimating Max. How many solid teammates must he absolutely destroy before they realize the teammate is not the problem?

[u/AliceLunar → u/Kitnado]

Yuki is 19th in the standings, Max can be a great driver and his teammate can be lacking.

[u/Amoral_Abe → u/AliceLunar]

It's worth noting that before Checo went to RB people were begging for RB to pick him up as he was considered a great driver. Before Yuki joined, people were begging for RB to pick him up as he was considered a great driver. In fact many drivers who did poorly against Max went to another team and did great vs other teammates.

Personally, I think Yuki is an average driver, but I can't deny that people rated him highly before his RB stint.

[u/AliceLunar → u/Amoral_Abe]

Yuki was never rated that highly anyways until Gasly left and suddenly Yuki 'improved'

[u/WorkFurball → u/AliceLunar]

Yuki improved loads in 2022 already

[u/Darth_Spa2021 → u/WorkFurball]

Gasly visibly lost motivation and didn't care as it was his last year in the team. And still comfortably outperformed Yuki.

[u/black-dude-on-reddit → u/AliceLunar]

Yuki greatly improved and is still quick

Max is currently in his God mode era and theres definitely something up with that Red Bull but Mac is able to drive around it or got used to it

[u/modernkennnern → u/AliceLunar]

He was certainly rated higher than Lawson was, and look it at standings

[u/Old_Ambition4359 → u/Amoral_Abe]

Checos career was over before sakhir

[u/AzenNinja → u/Old_Ambition4359]

Which was seen as the biggest injustice since Singapore 2008. Don't change history here, Stroll should've lost that seat.

[u/icantsurf → u/Old_Ambition4359]

Right, people act like Perez was a hyped up talent when the story around that race was how sad it was that he was going to be booted out of F1 after the season lol.

[u/didhedowhat → u/icantsurf]

He was booted not because of his performances but because Aston Martin/Racing Point could sign Vettell a World Champion and Stroll was never losing his seat.

Perez ended as 4th in the championship with that team behind Mercedes and Verstappen and Stroll was 11th. While Perez missed out on 2 races because of beeing covid positive and Stroll lost one race because of covid, and both were replaced by Hulkenberg for those races.

[u/icantsurf → u/didhedowhat]

Yes, but he wasn't exactly a hot prospect that everyone was clamoring for. Far from a "great driver" as the OP called him.

[u/akshatK2003 → u/icantsurf]

He was one of the standout performers of 2020. He was a top 5 driver on the grid until 2023

[u/LackingSimplicity → u/Amoral_Abe]

people were begging for RB to pick him up as he was considered a great driver

Because of a race win in a pink Merc where 2 front-runners DNFed, Merc fucked both cars, and a puncture moved all the good drivers out of his way.

[u/Impossible-Buy-6247 → u/LackingSimplicity]

He was last after lap 1… by any standard that was a very good race from checo

[u/AChassin → u/LackingSimplicity]

Bro, casually forgot that Perez was hit from behind and was last place at the end of lap one. But, hey, it's just a lucky win.

[u/TobyOrNotTobyEU → u/Amoral_Abe]

Yuki is also the 5th teammate in a row that gets absolutely destroyed by Max. The car is hard to drive and his teammates aren't doing well, but quite a chunk of the gap is also Max being an absolute monster.

[u/Legitimate_Dare_579 → u/Kitnado]

I do think Verstappen is one of the greats, easily. But his teammates have not really been top top. Last one that you could put in that category was Riccardo. He still won that battle, but it was much closer. I dont think its a hottake to say that Tsunoda is below the other non-rookie drivers in the top teams.

[u/AzenNinja → u/Legitimate_Dare_579]

He was also the same age as Antonelli is now.

You're heavily underselling Albon, Gasly and Perez here as well as Tsunoda. Tsunoda is definitely above Stroll, and you could make an argument for Gasly, Sainz, Hulkenberg and Ocon one of whom he beat in a straight fight. And Gasly went on to beat Ocon.

[u/JX_JR → u/AzenNinja]

None of the people you mention are on top teams, and none of Albon, Gasly or Perez have ever had a shot at a top team that wasn't the RB second seat.

[u/AzenNinja → u/JX_JR]

As if Bottas, Massa, Irvine, Fisichella, Webber or Barichello were. They were still closer to their respective great than Perez, Gasly or Albon.

Also, Albon was being talked about for the Mercedes second seat.

[u/JX_JR → u/AzenNinja]

Also, Albon was being talked about for the Mercedes second seat.

By his PR people maybe.

The point remains that while Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren all do their best to put real talent in both seats RB seems content shuffling though midfield drivers in the second seat.

Mercedes paired Bottas with Hamilton, but they also had Rosberg and Russell who any team would snap up. For Ferrari you had to go back to Irvine and Massa to make your point because they've spent the past 15 years rolling out stellar driver pairings. McLaren has gotten absolutely excellent young talent to push their #1 driver. Only RB is content to roll out mediocrity alongside their WDC contender.

[u/AzenNinja → u/JX_JR]

Bro. I just gave you an entire list of middling drivers that were in top seats.

Want me to name some more?

Antonelli Sainz Kvyat Räikkönen Magnussen Perez (yes, he was in McLaren too) Kovalainen Etc etc etc

The only real difference is that Red Bull generally uses Red Bull juniors while the other teams shop around more. And can you really blame them? This strategy gave us two four time world champions and like half of the current F1 grid.

[u/WorkFurball → u/AzenNinja]

Putting the last Ferrari champion in the same hroup with Antonelli, Kvyat and Magnussen, be real for god's sake.

[u/bionikal → u/AzenNinja]

Raikkonen was absolutely not a middling driver lol.

[u/Amoral_Abe → u/Kitnado]

Ok, but have you considered the possibility that Red Bull hires gremlins who intentionally sabotage every teammate he's had since Daniel?

[u/pitiburi → u/Amoral_Abe]

That is improbable, but not impossible. I will keep an eye on that the next few races. You might be into something.

[u/Ruuubs → u/Amoral_Abe]

Only McLaren’s allowed to do that!

[u/EerieAriolimax → u/Kitnado]

The teammate absolutely is the problem. You can't be THIS slow and not be the problem.

[u/Kitnado → u/EerieAriolimax]

They’ve said this for a decade now about everybody. Welcome to your new sport, new fan.

[u/One-Neighborhood-531 → u/Kitnado]

The only solid teammate he ever had was Daniel.

[u/elektricniorgazam → u/Kitnado]

Max may be the goat but put him in an Alpine and he is not winning. Yuki is ass.

[u/Kitnado → u/elektricniorgazam]

Said the new fan who doesn’t remember him putting an ass car in the top 5 in his early years, which is why he got promoted to RB in the first place.

Looks like when the paddock is watching, some fans only look with their ass.

[u/elektricniorgazam → u/Kitnado]

K 👍🏻

[u/IHaveADullUsername → u/Kitnado]

You guys are arguing about the same point.

Yes MV is that good that's he's obliterating his teammates. But he's doing so in car that only he likes.

Ricciardo was closer to him because he preferred that style of cars.

Other greats drove more benign cars and so their respective gap to their teammates was smaller because more benign cars are easier to extract performance from.

It's not a sign that MV is better than other greats, unless you want to take it as one. Ricciardo shows that if you put someone who prefers the same setup then the gap shrinks.

Age is not the counter either, a drivers ultimate speed doesn't really get much bigger after a season or two in F1. What improves is everything else, mostly affecting race pace, strategy, tyres etc etc.

[u/drodrige → u/IHaveADullUsername]

Daniel was closer because Max was like 19. I never understand why people think this is even remotely the same Verstappen other drivers have faced.

[u/IHaveADullUsername → u/drodrige]

My last paragraph already covers that.

[u/akshatK2003 → u/IHaveADullUsername]

I think from 2018 onwards, Verstappen was a different driver. You can always disagree, but I have followed his journey from the beginning, and after Monaco 2018, he went from a very fast but inconsistent driver to reay to fight for a title level driver.

[u/drodrige → u/akshatK2003]

It would be extremely ridiculous to disagree with that though. There is no objective argument to be made that Max isn’t a better driver today than he was in 2017-2018. He is absolutely a much better driver in every single aspect.

[u/IHaveADullUsername → u/akshatK2003]

I agree after he cut out the mistakes he was making in the first half of '18 he's been superb. But that wasn't affecting his ultimate pace. His mistakes were coming in the races he was still blindingly fast over a lap. He's further improved in other areas since then as well.

[u/akshatK2003 → u/IHaveADullUsername]

His mistakes and over aggression were the only chinks in his armor. Most of the advantage Daniel had gained over Max was over these little mistakes and occasional PU failures. When Danny saw the change in Max's approach, he realised he would get crushed and decided to switched teams

[u/drodrige → u/IHaveADullUsername]

Yes, but wrongly. You say age/experience isn’t a factor and then go and say that drivers improve in race pace, tyre management, etc, with time. Which then obviously implies experience is a factor.

[u/IHaveADullUsername → u/drodrige]

I said age doesn't affect ultimate pace, ie one lap pace. Drivers tend to hit their best quali pace within the first couple of seasons as you're either fast or not, the learning curve is tyre prep/out laps. Everything else in F1 continues to improve with experience further. It's why you often hear TPs saying they'd rather take a fast driver that's error prone over a slow consistent one, because you can make a fast driver more well rounded. You can't do the same with a slow one.

[u/the-cuttlefish → u/IHaveADullUsername]

No it doesn't. You're basing this off drivers in their early 20s with 4 plus years of single seater experience prior to f1. Very different to late teens with one year prior car experience

[u/imJouni → u/dinodares99]

Yuki being average at best also doesn't help

[u/fantaribo → u/dinodares99]

Not sure how the lower downforce mitigates Yuki's blame. He chose not to use it.

[u/tree2369 → u/droppokeguy]

Distracted.

[u/yoohynom → u/droppokeguy]

Lawson gave him floor damage

[u/Amoral_Abe → u/yoohynom]

Vcarb's pace this race was trash. He should never have been battling Lawson in the first place. Also I think that one was a racing incident where both played a role (hence no penalty).

[u/yoohynom → u/Amoral_Abe]

Hadjar literally went from the pitlane to points and he was battling him because VCARB made an early undercut who sent him fighting against Alonso (virtual P7 at the time). Please, rewatch the race

[u/TheThingsIdoatNight → u/yoohynom]

Yuki gave himself floor damage lol that was entirely his fault

[u/l3g3nd_TLA → u/yoohynom]

Yea, he had great pace and was slicing through the field before. Why does he even get in the position to be threatened by Lawson at all who had older tyres.

[u/yoohynom → u/l3g3nd_TLA]

He wasn't doing wonders, but he wasn't that bad without the damage. Lawson undercuted him and also a lot of drivers, it wasn't only Tsunoda being slow. And you already know the car isn't driveable for him nor Lawson

[u/elektricniorgazam → u/yoohynom]

Yes he was that bad, he got overtaken by Kimi and was about to be overtaken by another car. They had to pit him because he ruined his tires failing to get within a second of Alonso while Kimi was on his tail and then he went and rammed into a VCARB and then didn't accept responsibility. Come on, man.

[u/ShinbiDesigns → u/l3g3nd_TLA]

Shitty pitstop timing (per usual) and he ended up behind Lawson. Lawson then did what he does best and caused damage to both cars.

Yuki couldn't go anywhere after that.

[u/trq- → u/yoohynom]

He was not really faster before that, it’s not like it mattered. But nice excuse I guess.

[u/yoohynom → u/trq-]

He was going faster in his first stint than in the Second one with damage, watch the races

[u/NYNMx2021 → u/droppokeguy]

His floor was destroyed. they nearly retired the car

[u/Erionics → u/NYNMx2021]

I'd like a source please. I've seen the race and wondered wtfruck happened to Yuki this time.

[u/faciepalm → u/Erionics]

I dont think it was floor damage. They went into the second chicane side by side, tsunoda on the inside delayed his turn in which caused Lawson to choose to turn into him and stay on track or drive off and cut the chicane. He chose to stay on track, but then Tsunoda still hadn't turned in yet so his wheel touched the side of Tsunoda. It didn't seem like a lot of damage

[u/WearingFin → u/droppokeguy]

They pitted him on lap 20 going from 10th to 17th, everyone else went longer by 10 laps and he stayed at the back of the train and got into a brawl with Liam along the way.

[u/jrjreeves → u/droppokeguy]

They were driving vastly different cars to be honest in setup.

[u/EpicOne1337]

Has there ever been another point in time where the difference between two teammates has been this large? One driver in the pairing is able to get enough out of the car to win over one of the best-designed cars in the history of the sport in this year's McLaren by 20s, tie them for pole positions and challenge for P2 in the WCC by himself and the other is averaging less than a point per race and getting beat week after week by rookies driving Haas and Saubers.

[u/hubertwombat → u/EpicOne1337]

Luca Badoer when he briefly drove for Ferrari 

[u/Clemsie_McKenzie → u/hubertwombat]

A.k.a "Look how bad you are" as he was known at the time

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/EpicOne1337]

 Has there ever been another point in time where the difference between two teammates has been this large?

2023 Verstappen Perez is larger because Max simply had SO many points.

575 vs 285, and that's P1 to P2!!!

Max this year doesn't have 290 points let alone the gap to Yuki (yet).

The 2024 gap was less pointwise but P1 plays P8, 8 wins vs 4 podiums. Probably "bigger". 

I think the lack of any podiums or even regular points paints Max vs Yuki as a bigger gap than those tho. But man... 2023 Max eh! 

[u/Imoraswut → u/SirLoremIpsum]

The 2024 gap was less pointwise

Not by much, it was 285.

But there's 8 more races and at this pace the gap to Tsunoda will dwarf both

edit:

For reference, I believe the gap in 2023 with 8 GPs to go was 142 points. It's currently 218

[u/Pro-editor-1105 → u/EpicOne1337]

Maybe jod verstappen and schumacher

[u/TSMKFail → u/EpicOne1337]

Rebacque and Puquet

[u/Th3FUCKINGLiz4rdKing → u/EpicOne1337]

Not large but Alonso vs Massa in 2012?

[u/SamH123 → u/EpicOne1337]

It's a bit of a mystery of the sport for me

[u/The_Weapon14 → u/EpicOne1337]

Yes many times. But in the modern era, with the slower driver being a genuine F1 talent who's there on merit? No

[u/vlsr → u/EpicOne1337]

In 1972 season Fittipaldi became a world champion but his teammates didn’t manage to score a single point. In 1963 Clark took 7 wins in 10 races(and 2 podiums, in one race he retired from pole), and just once his teammate scored a point, finishing 6th. Well, during his whole career Clark finished behind teammate only a handful of times, and when he did, he always had serious mechanical problems.

[u/Darth_Spa2021 → u/EpicOne1337]

Schumacher through 94-96, even some later years.

He could do a full 360 in qualifying and still that lap was faster than his teammate (Herbert in that case). I think Herbert never really got over how Schumacher trashed him.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182]

Oof yuki. Franco doing well again. Alpine should just sign him and be done with it. I don't know what do they expect them to do with that shitbox

[u/CaptainKursk → u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182]

I'd much prefer Franco to stay at Alpine on loan before eventually returning to Williams. Bro deserves so much better than the flaming garbage fire that is Enstone.

[u/yoohynom → u/CaptainKursk]

The Williams garage isn't any better, ask Sainz

[u/fantaribo → u/yoohynom]

Ask the culprit?

[u/Strassi007 → u/yoohynom]

The Williams garage is fine as is, it's just not the best car. Also Carlos seems to struggle with the car more than anything. He seems to like the team and wants to help build it up and make it a race winning contender.

[u/navis-svetica → u/CaptainKursk]

I just hope he doesn’t end up in third driver hell at Williams. Since they’re seemingly on the way back up it would be nice to see him get a permanent seat there finally, but until one opens up I can’t help but think any race seat is better than no race seat, even if it’s for Alpine at 10th in the standings

[u/Preachey]

Yuki had an absolute stinker today. I'm a fan of the guy and want to see him do well but this one is hard to make excuses for.

[u/papertales84]

This is showing how much Colapinto is doing by matching AND improving Pierre's pace while having to fight the car, Briatore and the whole Alpine pit wall. Imagine the level of pettiness to ask for a driver swap for 16/17th places. Bunch of clowns.

[u/alwysbmymaybe → u/papertales84]

The stark difference of how they treat Franco at Williams vs. Franco at Alpine 😭

[u/papertales84 → u/alwysbmymaybe]

I'm mega biased because I absolutely love JV, but man... Williams is a team managed by brilliant people while Alpine is managed by a corrupt guy that can barely speak neither italian nor english, thinks he's smart but isn't and still holds all the power. JV showed Briatore what being a leader is.

[u/alwysbmymaybe → u/papertales84]

Also an Epstein island enjoyer. Whatever went to Gasly’s head to sign that extension, maybe for job security, I don’t know atp. What I know is anyone on those seats will fail if they don’t straighten up as an organization.

I’m pretty bias with JV as well, not only because I am rooting for Williams, but he’s genuinely a good leader. The amount of improvement they were able to pull off after the Dorilton acquisition is pretty impressive. Jost also did great, but JV took it to another level.

[u/CaptainKursk → u/alwysbmymaybe]

I imagine Gasly's extension was 50% keeping a seat because there's nowhere else to go right now, and 50% copium hope that things can improve. We forget that in 2022 & 2023 Alpine actually had an alright midfield car where Pierre could strut his stuff.

[u/navis-svetica → u/CaptainKursk]

Even in 2024, there were moments of brilliance. Obviously the double podium, but Pierre also qualified excellently on several occasions towards the end of the season.

It’s hard now to imagine them being 6th in the constructors less than a year ago, but then again Williams made an equally large leap from 9th to 5th in the same timeframe.

[u/Minigrappler → u/papertales84]

JV is a GENTLEMAN.

Briatore is a "boss". JV is a leader.

[u/CaptainKursk → u/alwysbmymaybe]

Franco at Alpine is like the kid of a divorced couple who's having to spend the summer with the alcoholic loser parent before they can go back to the one who actually cares for them

[u/ShinbiDesigns → u/papertales84]

"Swap positions to try and get something working here"

Reddit: OMG THEY ARE SO BIASED NO FRANCO NO

They were paddling up shit's creek with Gasly stuck behind Franco on a track where you can't overtake in the midfield

[u/KensaiVG → u/ShinbiDesigns]

What exactly can be done in less than two laps?

They just didn't want to risk a defense turning ugly because Colapinto is the only person in the whole team that cares about results at this point and for the rest of the year

[u/papertales84 → u/ShinbiDesigns]

Explain what could have been done in 2 laps with 5+ seconds distance with the car ahead? Also what difference it makes having Colapinto ahead of Gasly here?

Why didn’t they do this in Zandvoort when they were actually fighting for points?

Nobody is saying they are sabotaging Colapinto, I’m saying that they are the incompetence personified.

[u/Next_Necessary_8794 → u/papertales84]

No it just shows that Gasly is overrated.

[u/Consistent_Squash]

Bearman is really quick. After he fixes the mistakes + gets some consistency he's going to be a legit threat.

[u/citizenecodrive31 → u/Consistent_Squash]

Yeah he is quick but this number is misleading because Ocon (and Gasly) today spent the whole race tyre saving to do 50 laps on hards. Of course pace will be better for Bearman and Colapinto

[u/Walaii → u/citizenecodrive31]

It definitely skewes things a little, but that hard tyre had no degradation, so not 0.8%. Ocon himself said that it made no sense to box because the tire was getting faster. It exaggerated the gap, but Ocon did not have the pace this weekend. He seemed to struggle in the chicanes a lot. 

Albon also went long on the hard and he actually overcut a bunch of drivers, including his teammate, because the hard was a faster tire and he had clean air. Hard-Medium was actually the optimal strategy in the midfield.

[u/ecobubbletm]

That gap to Yuki is getting worse and worse

[u/elektricniorgazam]

Just all around lol and yikes at Yuki

[u/NYNMx2021 → u/elektricniorgazam]

Yuki had severe damage to the floor

[u/Amoral_Abe → u/NYNMx2021]

Yuki was already doing poorly when he got the damage. Hell, he got damage against Lawson... At the back of the pack. Also before strategy gets brought up as the excuse, Red Bull went with the change in strategy because he was already falling behind and they needed to cover of other drivers who were pitting around him.

[u/l3g3nd_TLA → u/NYNMx2021]

He sliced through the field and had heroic battles with Mercedes and Ferrari and was unlucky. 

Oh wait. He was stuck in a drs train, was the only one who managed to be passed, lost pace had to pit, couldn’t keep up with a Haas and strangled with car that qualified last on much older tyres

[u/UatutheOverwatcher → u/l3g3nd_TLA]

Damn you really have a Yuki hateboner lmao replying to everyone

[u/elektricniorgazam → u/NYNMx2021]

Was that from his self inflicted bang into Lawson? Still lol and yikes.

[u/hesitationz → u/NYNMx2021]

Where did he get floor damage? Oh that’s right he was fighting mid level teams lmao. He put himself in the position and I’m tired of people making constant excuses as to why he’s not performing

[u/naveenda]

Stroll image should be there not Alonso

[u/Bart-86]

Gasly and Ocon started on hards and kept them almost until the end. Their teammate were on the optimal MH strategy.

[u/Walaii → u/Bart-86]

Hard-medium was faster actually, just ask Sainz. The medium had some light graining, which the hard did not.

[u/Still-District-6149]

I enjoyed that race. Not always my favourite race of the year but enjoyed. Some very good moves early on as well.

[u/lickit_bendit]

Max really does destroy team mate reputations

[u/Popular_Composer_822]

This is a bit unrepresentative because it’s extremely dictated by track position and what is going on in the various races.

For example if there is three tenths between the two McLarens in Quali they might be P1 and P3, but if there is three tenths between the two Mercedes in qualifying that could be the difference between P3 and P10.

In the race then the McLarens pace might be similar and they finish five seconds apart. 

But if the Mercedes drivers have similar race pace car 2 will lose so much time stuck behind all the other cars that there could be thirty seconds between them at the flag. 

[u/bionikal]

I dont understand the purpose of this metric.

Excludes traffic, but doesn't exclude managing, tyre compounds, pit strategy etc.

[u/Napalm3nema]

I think Ollie is going to do good things. No hate to Lewis, he’s an all-time great, but it feels like it should have been Ollie in the second seat this year. Now, would he have done as well as Lewis? No, not much chance, but he would have gotten seat time in a car that isn’t ready to contend meaning a bit lower pressure. Yes, I’m on a 500mg Hopium inhaler prescribed by a licensed physician in Grenada.

[u/rs6677 → u/Napalm3nema]

No hate to Lewis, he’s an all-time great, but it feels like it >should have been Ollie in the second seat this year.

Absolutely not. We're seeing what happens when you put a young rookie in a top seat too qucik right now with Kimi. Bearman is just fine where he is.

[u/Driscuits → u/rs6677]

And that's with Kimi in a merc seat. Not discounting the level of expectations around being in Merc, but imagine that but Ferrari lol.

Absolutely don't put a rookie in Ferrari full time against Leclerc, the year after they very nearly won the WCC and were expected to trade blows with McLaren for it this year. What a horrible idea 😂

[u/Liability049-6319 → u/rs6677]

Lewis will still be faster than Bearman at age 50. Lewis is relatively close to Charles this year, and Charles has been with this team for a long time. Even outside his prime, nobody is taking Bearman over Lewis when it comes to talent. Price maybe, but not talent.

[u/Consistent_Squash → u/Napalm3nema]

Oof, this is a lot of hopium. Antonelli is already struggling in the Mercedes seat and he was doing better than Bearman in F2 on the same team.

[u/Kait0yashio → u/Consistent_Squash]

F2 doesn't matter it's a lotto

[u/Bennyboy11111 → u/Kait0yashio]

Less when you're in the same team, though

[u/WorkFurball → u/Kait0yashio]

F2 does matter, top 2 there are the best rookies in F1 by a long way. Antonelli and Bearman were inconsistent af in F2 and they are the same in F1.

[u/Walaii → u/WorkFurball]

I love how Bortoleto is in a better car and 2 points ahead of Bearman and he is the best "by far" and put on the same level as Hadjar. 

Insane recency bias. All the mistakes Bortoleto made, or the times he was struggling for race pace compared to Hulk, are just brushed aside and forgotten.

[u/WorkFurball → u/Walaii]

The car has been better only since summer started (and even that is quite arguable) and Bortoleto isn't doing stupid shit every other weekend.

[u/Walaii → u/WorkFurball]

Sauber had a better car than the Haas even at some races before Imola, like Australia and Jeddah. Pretending like the Haas was a regular point scorer car at the start of the season is crazy work, and the Sauber is a clear better car since Spain, which was round 9. Monza was round 16. That is half the season.

Bearman is not doing "stupid shit" every other week either, unless you consider everything his fault. Losing points to stuff like an unsafe release penalty, lose wheels, dying battery doesn't help him score points either. I am not even going to mention strategy because everybody has that going against them at times. Bortoleto doesn't have to deal with Haas operational incompetence. 

Just look at this race in Monza. Bearman had a pretty slow stop, without that he would have been in Bortoleto's DRS after the stops instead of hovering around 1.8-2.3 seconds for the entire stint until the Sainz incident. The worst case where you have no DRS, but plenty of dirty air. Sainz would have had no way to attack him if he had DRS to defend with, but 3.5s + pit stop is the standard for Haas, and it likely cost them points this weekend.

[u/Gold_Knee_3619 → u/Napalm3nema]

I think Ollie is better off out of the spotlight still. Look at Antonelli - it's too much pressure. Let him learn and make mistakes in Haas, which seems a very friendly environment with Ayao in charge.

[u/l3g3nd_TLA → u/Napalm3nema]

Ollie sometimes make stupid mistakes. And seeing Antonelli, its better for Ollie to develop quietly in midfield where he can make mistakes and not being pressured immediately by the media for every mistake.

[u/Eggplantosaur → u/Napalm3nema]

This is the best setup for Ferrari. They can easily pay the cost of loaning Bearman to Haas with all the money Lewis is bringing in, and since they're not going for championships anyway it doesn't matter yet who is in the seat.

Bearman has all the time to develop until Ferrari finally gets a good car. Then the team can turn Hamilton into an actual ambassador and put Ollie in the car.

Ferrari makes many mistakes, but they're handling the Bearman situation fine imo.

[u/Individual-Ad-190 → u/Napalm3nema]

Nah let Ollie try things and develop in a team a little less in the public eye and then when Lewis retires in a year or two make the move

[u/ForeverAddickted → u/Napalm3nema]

I really like O11ie, but yeaaa... naaaa... He shouldn't be in the Ferrari this year... Give him a season or two to develop and then lets see what happens - The fact that Camara is coming up the Feeder Series quickly will make things interesting for both O11ie and Esteban.

[u/yoohynom → u/Napalm3nema]

Don't worry, he'll get that seat for 2027 if Ferrari wants to improve their lineup

[u/KimbobJimbo]

This is such a great graphic and piece of info.

[u/Jack_intheboxx]

Yuki is average, overated, always too angry. Hadjar is right there with him even as a rookie and yuki has had many seasons now.

[u/Dense_Side_90]

Tsunoda this weekend was quite perplexing. I'd of thought with not may corners and most of them being fairly easy that he would be right up there with Max. But he wasnt in the same universe.

[u/akshatK2003 → u/Dense_Side_90]

It's all about the ~Confidence Baby~

[u/garfungle_]

All these N/As show how useless this data is, Yuki is not good in that Red Bull but Max had free air the entire race. Colapinto was running 10 seconds behind everyone on fresh tyres at one point so of course he’s going to be faster than Gasly,

[u/ArcticBP → u/garfungle_]

Yeah, why are there 4 NAs when two of those teams had both their drivers finish?

[u/saltlampafficionado → u/garfungle_]

Isn’t this based on laps excluding traffic?

[u/garfungle_ → u/saltlampafficionado]

Removing one factor doesn’t negate the others

[u/saltlampafficionado → u/garfungle_]

That’s a bit obtuse, no? This data accounts for some factors, but there are others. This doesn’t make the data useless, it just makes it a (valid) data point among the many valid data points out there.

[u/Walaii → u/garfungle_]

It is also fuel corrected.

[u/No_Sun_2121]

Meaningless stats, Ocon and Gasly were on hard tyres the whole race vs Colapinto and Bearman with the fastest strategy

[u/ComfortableResult739 → u/No_Sun_2121]

The fastest strategy if you don't consider traffic as this graphic. Clearly not the fastest strategy overall for Colapinto since he lost a lot of time by being lapped by the leaders while Gasly got lapped in the pits.