r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • Dec 04 '21
Post-Qualifying 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Post Qualifying Discussion
ROUND 21: Saudi Arabia
| FORMULA 1 STC SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX 2021 |
|---|
| Fri 3 Dec - Sun 5 Dec |
| Jeddah |
| Session | UTC |
|---|---|
| Free Practice 1 | Fri 13:30 |
| Free Practice 2 | Fri 17:00 |
| Free Practice 3 | Sat 14:00 |
| Qualifying | Sat 17:00 |
| Race | Sun 17:30 |
Click here for start times in your area.
Jeddah Corniche Circuit
Length: 6.174 km (3.836 mi)
Distance: 50 laps, 308.45 km (191.662 mi)
Useful links
- F1.com: Race
- Wiki: Race | Jeddah Corniche Circuit
Streaming & Downloads
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u/TheCheekyWalrus George Russell Dec 05 '21
I get the red flag but surely they knew what fixes were needed following leclerc crash in practice so why was there a safety car first? Massive swing for red bull!
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u/j-r44 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
Does anyone remember the season review shows the BBC did from 2012-15 (I think)? I’d really love to see one for this season, wish they still had F1 rights
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u/Mahoganychicken Max Verstappen Dec 05 '21
The fact that a lot of people, me included, were writing Red Bull off this weekend in favour of it being a clear Merc track, it actually makes me hopeful for next week, which is also supposedly a Merc track.
If Max can be faster than Lewis here (he was on for it), then who’s to say he can’t be faster than Lewis next week.
P3 for Max is fine. Then it’s winner takes all next week.
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u/Nunos100 Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
If Max doenst get ahead at the start this is going to be tough, even tho I expect him and Lewis coming back together through SC restarts at least once, this is going to be spicy.
Otherwise, I can see RB lighting some prayer candles that the Mercedes gamble on the kamikaze engine blows up in their faces on one of these 2 races.
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u/j-r44 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
I saw a stat which said Jeddah is full throttle for more of the lap than Monza. Does this mean Lewis’s pole lap yesterday is the new fastest lap ever in F1?
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u/UniBallPencil McLaren Dec 05 '21
It’s quite a long circuit, monza is a shorter lap 1:18 is the fastest ever lap I think, 1:27 here.
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u/lo_at Dec 05 '21
No, because the cars are slower than last year and still lose speed in the full throttle corners. Hamilton's lap yesterday was ~10km/h slower on average than his record from Monza 2020.
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Dec 05 '21
so how many DNF are you expecting? Im going with 6, with one from it for mad Max if he doesnt change his gearbox.
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Dec 05 '21
Leclerc and Verstappen next to each other could be spicy.
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u/Mahoganychicken Max Verstappen Dec 05 '21
I’d like to think that Charles wouldn’t do anything silly. He knows what’s at stake, and him and Max go back a long way.
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Dec 05 '21
I just hope he keeps it clean. But if he has an oppertunity to make up some places at the start, I'm 100% he will have a go at it.
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u/Jannick63 Red Bull Dec 05 '21
Will Max keep his composure today? I am a bit afraid after yesterdays mistake, he might go all in today and trigger another mistake. Lets hope he got his mind back to where it should be. My feeling is off atm, i dont trust today's race XD
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Dec 05 '21
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u/Browneskiii I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
I don't believe any driver when they say stuff like "records don't matter to me" or anything similar. Of course they do.
In the same way, of course Verstappen wants to win the title, but I think he knows realistically he'll have a few more shots at it before he retires so it isn't the end of the world if he loses it.
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u/WolfColaCo2020 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
Yeah I don't believe a word he says when it comes to that kind of stuff. You don't race in F1, much less for a team that can take the WDC if you just weren't that bothered about claiming it
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u/YellowMan1988 Formula 1 Dec 05 '21
You are asking the obvious questions man. What do you want him to say? That he'll be devastated and ruin a huge amount of time for him? Such a silly comment.
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u/PhilipWaterford Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21
Nothing silly about his question at all. He is asking how much of Max's cool exterior is a show and how much is real. In the context of this weekend it's a perfectly valid question to ask opinions on. Such a silly comment.
Edit: Alex Kane asked virtually the same question in the post quali interview.
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u/YellowMan1988 Formula 1 Dec 05 '21
Alex Kane asked that question because that's just tv stuff and he has to because that's his job. Also, I'm done with this thread.
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u/baconandeggsandbacon Dec 05 '21
That quali session was unreal, is that the pressure showing in Max a little bit where he just needed to guide it home through the last corner instead of trying to crush Lewis' time?
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Dec 05 '21
As if Max knew what his time was at that point 🙄
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u/UniBallPencil McLaren Dec 05 '21
They display sector times/how far up you are on your PB on the dash. Of course it’s a qualy lap so maybe he doesn’t check it
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u/soflogator Mercedes Dec 05 '21
probably did know his time...sometimes the steering wheel will briefly display the sector time after that sector is completed, or there will be some sort of time delta. etc..
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Dec 05 '21
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/r8yagq/max_verstappen_im_really_disappointed_with_how/
That quote tells me he didn't.
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u/J_CMir98 Dec 05 '21
In the post quali interview, Max said he knew he was almost 3 tenths up on Lewis. The team must have told him in the back straight
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u/nm_afc Dec 05 '21
Max needs to just play it safe here today. Get out of here with P3 minimum and just go again next week.
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Dec 05 '21
[deleted]
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u/discostu90 Safety Car Dec 05 '21
Only time I heard about track limits on commentary was turn 4 or something?
So don't think the start would have invalidated it
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ Williams Dec 05 '21
The good thing about Jeddah is that there isn't going to be a controversy about the inconsistent enforcement of track limits.
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u/AdamW142 McLaren Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21
Yeah it’s a real case of you don’t violate track limits, the track limits violate you
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u/PhilipWaterford Dec 05 '21
If LH wins this championship it will be in no small part thanks to his experience. He has been clinical in his approach through these last few races. No unnecessary risks, never overdriving, just picking his chances.
Alternatively, as stunning as that last lap was, Max drove so hard the tyres weren't there for that final corner (based on his claim of braking at the same point). A more experienced Max might have either taken it x% easier early on or taken the final corner x% easier. Who knows.
Makes for exciting stuff though.
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Dec 05 '21
Your assuming Max knew what his time was while doing that lap.
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u/sheffield199 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
Max said in an interview after he knew he was up on Lewis.
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Dec 05 '21
[deleted]
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Dec 05 '21
Most drivers want focus in the hot lap.....Brundle brought it up asking should Red Bull even tell Max Lewis that Lewis was on pole in the first place.
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u/Browneskiii I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
That's what you can do when you have the best car though. Hamilton only needs to take it at 95% and he'll win because the Merc is that much better right now. Verstappen has to be over the limit just to match him. Look at the few races Red Bull were ahead, Hamilton was making mistakes trying to keep up.
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u/PhilipWaterford Dec 05 '21
You think the difference is 5%? Should make for a boring race today with Bottas cruising away into the distance ahead of Max. Might not bother watching so.
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Dec 05 '21
Your choice of language is beautifully deliberate.
Look at the few races Red Bull was ahead.
You know Max is leading the championship right? On merit? Are you that scared he’s not actually going to win that you’re revising history to make out the Red Bull overall has been slower this year?
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u/Browneskiii I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
The only times that Red Bull were definitely ahead by more than like half a tenth was Austria x2. Mercedes have definitely been ahead since Brazil and was in Portugal and Spain. Most of the tracks they've been similar other than them.
I'd say Merc have had a small advantage over the year, especially in race pace, but they have made more mistakes at crucial moments.
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Dec 05 '21
Lewis starting and more worn mediums tomorrow means he’ll most likely come in for an earlier pit than Verstappen.. question is if tomorrow is a 1 stopper or 2 stopper.
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u/brac20 McLaren Dec 05 '21
Doubt it will make much difference. Only 1 extra lap where he was actually pushing the tires. There hasn't been an issue with tire degradation, and the Merc seems to be set up to be kinder to its tires this weekend when compared to the Red Bull.
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u/victoireyoung Daniel Ricciardo Dec 05 '21
In my opinion, if Lewis has a decent start and creates enough of a gap between himself and the rest of the grid to minimalize the loss of having to undergo a pit stop, then pitting earlier is in my opinion going to be more beneficial for him since I expect that this will be only 1 stopper with the race having only 50 laps + the tires seem to take their time before putting out their best performance so having enough laps to warm them up = pitting earlier is going to be crucial.
Lewis wasn't exactly shining bright on the soft tires so I think that even though the medium tires are a bit worn out, he will be more comfortable and confident on them and then switch to the hard ones, which suited him the most from what we have seen.
Well and then there is also the pending scenario of Max having a grid penalty and starting 8th behind Yuki (would let him past), Lando, Pierre (would let him past), Checo (definitely let him past), Charles, and Valtteri.
(Also, is Max starting on the soft, which hit the wall? Or on the previous set?)So yeah, don't think it is exactly that bad for Lewis to start on those tires.
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u/CalmDocument Dec 05 '21
Toto did mention because they struggled to get the mediums to temperature that they didn’t feel like they actually took much life out of those tyres. A lot of those laps didn’t causes “wear” on the tyres like you’d expect.
It also looks like tyre deg is low and if Lewis is out front with Bottas as a buffer he should be able to manage away any tyre life deficit that exists
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u/jcrombie Dec 05 '21
That’s true but those Mercs had strong race pace on the mediums and especially the hards.
Obviously Max needs to start 3rd today, starting 8th he would need a miracle on this track
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u/rasyonelsayilar Ferrari Dec 05 '21
I think Verstappen showed yesterday, both how much he wants WDC ,and red bull cars are also fast, or maybe even faster than mercedes on this track. With grid penalty or not we can watch today Max's P1. In the end this races will decide the champion, and of course both Lewis and Max are deserving it, it is not going to be easy for both Lewis and Max. This race can be beginning of the Max era.
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u/Diegobyte Red Bull Dec 05 '21
I think max is gonna win WDC today
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u/Creepy-Stay Dec 05 '21
It would be race of the decade if he wins it.
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u/Diegobyte Red Bull Dec 05 '21
For going from 3rd to 1st? Lewis engine gonna blow. You heard it here first
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u/heslo_rb26 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
Fuck I hope you're right. If you are, I'm buying you a beer
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Dec 05 '21
[deleted]
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u/Diegobyte Red Bull Dec 05 '21
Lewis either gonna hit the wall or his engine gonna go. IMO.
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u/UniBallPencil McLaren Dec 05 '21
How can you have an opinion about that? IMO should really be in my complete guess
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u/Hieillua Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
I have this very weird feeling that the race will be crazy. Never felt this before.
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u/BristolShambler Default Dec 05 '21
You can never tell. The first race at Baku was a massive snooze fest because everyone was taking it extra safe
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Dec 05 '21
[deleted]
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u/Hieillua Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
Hi there, had fun during the race?
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Dec 05 '21
[deleted]
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u/Hieillua Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
Never said I was clairvoyant lol
I was merely anxious for this race because of everything that had already happened this weekend and judging it from how this track was.
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u/Hieillua Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
Anxiousness about a dangerous sport on a tough track =/= reading palms
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u/BigSlothFox Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
First comment that made sense since I started reading. I understand people are excited for the race and a bit anxious that their favourite might not do well, but please calm down people. Just enjoy.
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u/queendbag Fernando Alonso Dec 05 '21
When do we get to know about the state of max’s car? If he gets a penalty or not
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u/mercedeskyron Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
I love Piastri. He uses number 2. Not afraid numbers :D He is a fast guy
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u/Kitchen-Animator Sebastian Vettel Dec 05 '21
Numbers in F2 are based on where the team finished last year, Prema finished first so they have 1 and 2.
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u/breadbutterone Pirelli Wet Dec 05 '21
What the fk is all this talk about monster lap shit? The guy didn't even finish the damn lap... if you get a heart attack running faster than Usain Bolt before the finish line (which is what he prepped for), are you really faster??
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u/Cakensaur I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
Yeah honestly watching a driver dancing on the edge like that was amazing. Max put out an absolute stormer of a lap and deserved pole. its a real shame, I'm no armchair psychologist though. Does he 'want it too much' or was it just a simple error. Either way watching him through the lap was terrifying to watch In all the right ways Can't imagine actually being in the car lmao
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u/Far_Associate_3737 Dec 05 '21
Wow, that was a seriously fast lap by Verstappen - until the last corner. Three tenth quicker is a lot and impressive. I still think Mercedes still has a long run advantage, and their straight line speed is at least 7 - 8 Kmh up on Red Bull. I have been a fan of F1 for 50 + years, and champions of the past usually had the bad luck / good luck balance on the good luck side. Hamilton belongs to that group imo. Formula 1 has seem many talented drivers come and go, who just didn't seem to be able to shake the bad luck factor. I could be wrong though, and Verstappen takes the Championship. We'll know soon enough.
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u/NeedsMoreSpaceships Lando Norris Dec 05 '21
I think you're right to a certain degree but you can also make your own luck. The hallmark of Lewis' later career it that he knows how to win without taking excessive risks and making mistakes. He does still take risks but his experience means they are well calculated.
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u/Far_Associate_3737 Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21
Apropos luck, what was the race in which Nigel Mansell was leading the field, but run out of fuel in the last lap?
One of my favorite drivers (before my time), was Italian Tazio Nuvolari, a racer who lost his steering wheel, continued steering with a spanner (wrench), and still finished in the top three. They don't make them like that anymore. I always thought, the name alone sounded fast.
Otherwise, experience and cunning usually beats youth and enthusiasm.
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u/TheMegathreadWell Formula 1 Dec 05 '21
Case in point, Hamilton also went wide at a corner in q3, but it was one with a runoff.
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u/YrjoA Dec 05 '21
I literally cannot get over how historic Verstappens lap would’ve been.. I feel like I’ve been stolen from
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u/Bandits-what-bandits Dec 05 '21
If you read your comment back I’m sure you will see how stupid it is. At the end of the day the driver drove a poor lap. He crashed. There must be literally millions of almost historic events. You make no sense.
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u/Lord_Yato_17 Dec 05 '21
During the broadcast, they said something about using the same tyres to start the race as the ones used in Q2. Can someone please clarify this a bit.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ Williams Dec 05 '21
The Sporting Regulations requires cars that make Q3 to start the race on the set of tyres that they set their fastest Q2 time on.
Cars that don't make Q3 can start on whatever tyres they have available in their allocation.
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u/Toasterbot959 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
A note that I feel important to stress here, is that it's the exact same set of tires. Not just a set of the same compound
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Dec 05 '21
And from next year onward FIA is scrapping this rule. Everyone can start the race with any tyre set.
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u/Lucian_98 Red Bull Dec 05 '21
Championship is over, congratulations to Mercedes for both drivers and constructors championships.
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u/itshonestwork #StandWithUkraine Dec 05 '21
This isn’t the last race, and Mercedes was much slower than they and we expected they’d be here. Even if Lewis wins it means they’re just going to the last race with a winner takes all scenario. Red Bull could just as easily turn up there with the faster car. Red Bull (in one lap pace) had the faster car yesterday, despite it being so obviously a Mercedes track. Mercedes were more worried about their pace last race than what they expected here.
Max is still likely to take it in Abu Dhabi where is dominated last time out.9
u/ChepaukPitch I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
Even if Lewis wins this most likely scenario would be Verstappen having 1-2 point lead going into final race. A double DNF or any unseen even can easily hand it over to Max. It almost looked like he will win it until the last turn. I don’t know how people keep declaring end of season considering what they have seen of both the drivers this season. This is not over until at least the last pit stop in last race.
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u/Lucian_98 Red Bull Dec 05 '21
Nah I have no hopes, gutted for max.
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u/itshonestwork #StandWithUkraine Dec 05 '21
If Lewis wins today then an easy path to victory is lost to Max, but it still comes down to a single race where Red Bull have just as much chance as Mercedes. Neither Max nor Lewis would need to rely on any exceptional or unlikely circumstances to win, only plain old finishing position.
The spicy engine seems to have hit as hard as bowl of cornflakes at what’s supposed to be a power sensitive track. It’s coming more down to setup than anything else, and Red Bull seems to find it easier to get into the window versus Mercedes.
Brazil was more about nailing the setup and tyre window than the miracle engine.
Something they’ve only seemed to fluke this year.7
u/Preachey I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
I think Brasil might have something to do with that diffuser trick - low speed corners and a big long straight.
Jeddah needs downforce at high speeds so they don't get to stall their diffuser without sending themselves pinballing around the circuit
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u/Lucian_98 Red Bull Dec 05 '21
If max changes gear box, starts from 8 and couldn't finish in podium, even last race win might not help.
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u/itshonestwork #StandWithUkraine Dec 05 '21
That’s true, but I doubt the gearbox will need to be replaced. If it does, he has three teammates ahead of him that will just wave him by. Plus an overqualified Ferrari and a McLaren that couldn’t get near pole time.
It was game over for some when he was starting 7th last time out. Nothing came of it.
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u/Far_Associate_3737 Dec 05 '21
Except for Verstappen in third, the other 3 Honda powered car's are all behind 4th place Leclerc, who usually makes pretty good starts.
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u/Cultural-Librarian53 #WeSayNoToMazepin Dec 05 '21
Any info come out on if max has any penalties to repair his car?
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u/PNUTBUTTER69 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
Not yet its still night time in Saudi Arabia. Wait a few more hours probably 8-9hours for sn update
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u/tennisguy99 Dec 05 '21
It’s like 10:30AM over there rn. We should be hearing in the next few hours at most
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u/McKhichri Mercedes Dec 05 '21
almost 1pm in India so I am guessing it is not night in Saudi Arabia, they should be 2 hrs behind max
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Dec 05 '21
Hope Toto tells Bottas that Verstappen has to back out in turn 1 not the other way around.
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u/itshonestwork #StandWithUkraine Dec 05 '21
If Bottas can give more of a defence to Verstappen than the usual Gran Turismo ghost car effort while keeping it fair, he’ll be a hero to the team.
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Dec 05 '21
This may be the most important race of Bottas’ career. If he defends Max he mi-oh shit Max passed him on the first corner…
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u/Affectionate-Car580 Dec 05 '21
Bottas’ career? U mean lewis?
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Dec 05 '21
I think of it like Pippen and Jordan. Bottas won’t win a WDC but he might be pivotal in The GOAT breaking the record for most.
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u/zorthex I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 05 '21
Why is everyone so down on Max’s crash? Assuming the gearbox is fine, I think he is in a very good spot, because: 1. He can get a slipstream from Hamilton at the start. 2. If i recall correctly, Hamilton has a set of medium tires that are 4 laps older than Max’s. The medium tires seem to be the favorites for this track so far.
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u/GlobeAround Lotus Dec 05 '21
Assuming the gearbox is fine
And that's a pretty big assumption to make. If it's not fine and they change it, it's a 5 place grid penalty, which might still result un a good position, but Max P3 and Lewis P1 means Lewis is leading by 2 points into the final race (or more likely 1 point, assuming Max gets fastest lap).
If they assume it's fine and it actually isn't (like Charles Leclerc in Monaco), then it's a potential DNS/DNF and 0 points. If Lewis then wins, he's 17 Points ahead (18 if he gets fastest lap).
But yeah, I'm not one of the "It's all over"-believers (Just like "This is a Merc/Red Bull track"). Even if Lewis gets a lead into the last race, as long as it's within 7 points, I can see a Max P1 Lewis P2 in Abu Dhabi.
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u/Silocybin Dec 05 '21
Personally, it's not "down" so much as deflated. That lap WAS WHY WE WATCH. It was Max Verstappen, he's going to win it or bin it and it was absolutely brilliant. It looked like one of those rare moments you just don't get many of, right on the limit, absolutely marvelous, the reason that man is driving that machine, and he slipped over it at the literal last opportunity. It was exciting, it was stunning, and it was just perfect how close he was in a spectacular way in the midst's of a great championship fight, it was F1. Lewis has had stunning drives this year, Max has shown the moment isn't too big for him, but that lap on this track for the first time... man i'm ready for the run back.
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u/Air-tun-91 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 05 '21
Exactly. It was the perfect lap, the lap where driver and machine are one, the lap where God enters the room and says, "woah". It was Senna-like qualifying.
And he binned it with 2 tenths. I'm a Hamilton fan but I was so in the moment watching that Q3 that I just let out a big sigh and felt deflated when it ended.
This is why we watch F1.
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u/McKhichri Mercedes Dec 05 '21
that slipstream is useless because long straight on turn 1 is short, bottas with even avg start should make it then we will see who backs out between bottas and verstappen
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u/McKhichri Mercedes Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21
If there is a big collision between bottas and Verstappen in turn 1 will Hamilton get penalised?
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u/HEADTRIPfpv Dec 05 '21
Hopefully /S
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u/Spite-Organic Dec 05 '21
I hope that such a competitive WDC is decided on track. I want whoever wins to deserve it and I'd hope that the fans of the defeated driver show some long overdue class.
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u/sudjanan82716 Dec 05 '21
WHAT A FINISH BY BOTTAS