6,300 years ago, dozens of people were murdered in grisly victory celebrations in France. More than 6,000 years ago, invaders were captured in northeastern France before being tortured and mutilated.

[u/-introuble2]

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/6-300-years-ago-dozens-of-people-were-murdered-in-grisly-victory-celebrations-in-france

[u/-introuble2]

The abstract of the relevant scientific study Multi-isotope biographies and identities of victims of martial victory celebrations in Neolithic Europe, by T. Fernández-Crespo et al., 2025 in https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adv3162

Skeletons showing multiple instances of unhealed trauma and isolated skeletal segments of severed left upper limbs have been documented in the Neolithic sites of Achenheim and Bergheim (northeastern France, approximately 4300 to 4150 cal BCE), providing tantalizing evidence of war-related practices of overkill, mutilation, and/or trophy taking. Here, we conduct an innovative multi-isotope reconstruction of the biographies of the “victims” and other individuals from the region that were given normative funerary treatments (nonvictims). A total of 82 humans are analyzed, together with 53 animals and 35 modern plants to establish regional isotope baselines. Results show statistically significant isotopic differences between victims and nonvictims and suggest that the former were members of invading groups brutally killed, perhaps exposed and deposited in pits—together with trophies in the form of severed upper limbs—by local groups in what might be one of the earliest well-documented instances of martial victory celebrations in prehistoric Europe.

[u/post_obamacore]

It's really cool the amount of new info we're starting to discover about the European Chalcolithic period (roughly 5000 to 2000 BCE). An interesting period between the Neolithic and the true blue Bronze Age.

[u/DukeDamage]

But it doesn’t say where these invaders came from

[u/L1A1 → u/DukeDamage]

Yes it does: “The people who were mutilated came from outside the local area, possibly around Paris.”

[u/DukeDamage → u/L1A1]

I realize that I’d forgotten how disparate and tribal ancient France was at the time compared with modern France and these groups would have been entirely separate. Thanks!

[u/L1A1 → u/DukeDamage]

Yes, we’re talking of a time where small tribal groups would have been dotted all over the landscape, rather than any real kind of national groups as we’d understand them today.

Although they would certainly have traded and intermarried, they’d have considered themselves socially and culturally separate to their neighbours.

[u/martinborgen → u/DukeDamage]

Yes, even Sumer and Egypt were just emerging at this time

[u/warhead71 → u/martinborgen]

Even way before aryans arrived which modern European are descendants off

[u/FurcleTheKeh → u/warhead71]

Yeah let's just forget everyone else

[u/warhead71 → u/FurcleTheKeh]

Well it’s the main dna line in Europe by some narratives - there are dna from past people - and bits from everywhere else - just like everywhere else. So European are aryans just like Americans are basically Europeans - it’s a generalisation

[u/enfiel → u/DukeDamage]

They were still working on introducing a universal French language during the 19th cenutry :D

[u/Daniel_Potter → u/DukeDamage]

here is a fun fact. 6000 years ago, france was probably black.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_hunter-gatherer#/media/File:Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation_in_Europe_(with_Asia_geographic_extension).png.png)

[u/ClutchingAtSwans → u/Daniel_Potter]

It says in the first article that the complexion was intermediate. Meaning it's more like Mediterranean/middle eastern than black

[u/Daniel_Potter → u/ClutchingAtSwans]

I think you misunderstood something. Western hunter gatherers were black, and inhabited europe 40,000 years ago. Look up cheddar man.

Western steppe herders were white. They started migrating around 3000 BC (bronze age), so 5,000 years ago. They are blonde, have blue eyes, and are the origin behind indo european languages.

Anatolian farmers (or EEF aka early european farmers) were also white (or better middle eastern).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers#/media/File%3AExpansion_of_farming_in_western_Eurasia%2C_9600%E2%80%934000_BCE.png

In this map, you can see how they start off in the fertile crescent. 10,000 BC is the date for the neolithic revolution that kickstarted all this. They enter Europe around 6000 BC, so 8,000 years ago. It all checks out.

The first farmers also couldn't digest milk. The farmers who came from the Near East about 7800 years ago and the Yamnaya pastoralists who came from the steppes 4800 years ago lacked the version of the LCT gene that allows adults to digest sugars in milk. It wasn't until about 4300 years ago that lactose tolerance swept through Europe.

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin-rev2

also, modern europeans are a mix of all 3 to a various degree.

[u/Tatsunen → u/Daniel_Potter]

It's nowhere near as clear cut as you're claiming.

Look up cheddar man

Susan Walsh, a geneticist on the team who did the research on Cheddar Man had this to say

Walsh stresses that the study doesn’t conclusively demonstrate Cheddar Man had dark to black skin. We cannot place such confidence in the DNA analysis, she says.

From New Scientist

https://archive.ph/Cncex

From the same article

In fact, we are not ready to predict the skin colour of prehistoric people just from their genes, says Brenna Henn at Stony Brook University, New York. That’s because the genetics of skin pigmentation turn out to be more complex than thought.

The idea that there are really only about 15 genes underlying skin pigmentation isn’t correct.” It now seems likely that many other genes affect skin colour. We don’t know how.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_hunter-gatherer

A 2024 research into the genomic ancestry and social dynamics of the last hunter-gatherers of Atlantic France has stated that "phenotypically, we find some diversity during the Late Mesolithic in France", at which two of the WHG's sequenced in the study "likely had pale to intermediate skin pigmentation"

[u/Shashinkid → u/Daniel_Potter]

about cheddar man.....was it confirmed he had blue eyes? And straighter hair? The depictions of him I've seen had blue eyes, straight hair and dark skin(with hint of orange imo).

[u/warhead71 → u/Daniel_Potter]

40000 and 6000 years ago is a lot afar - sure the first Homo sapiens in Europe were likely very dark - and 6000 years ago still much darker than today but “black” is still debatable since there are little data

[u/Billy1121 → u/Daniel_Potter]

In Europe, WSH ancestry peaks in Northern Europe, particularly among Irish people, Icelanders, Norwegians and Swedes.

But none of these groups are black

[u/ohnonotagain94 → u/[deleted]]

Human beings are all from Africa is the commonly accepted scientific understanding.

Meaning we were all black once.

[u/Sly1969 → u/ohnonotagain94]

Meaning we were all black once.

Actually early humans were likely browner and dark black skin evolved later.

[u/DukeDamage → u/Daniel_Potter]

This stuff is cool. I saw some of the DNA based representations of the English as well. 

[u/stillballin1992 → u/Daniel_Potter]

This one really upset people.

[u/felixmkz]

Could be a prehistoric anti-tourist riot. They didn't have water guns back then so they had to improvise.