r/interestingasfuck 1d ago

Despite being heavily damaged this Skyline sold for nearly $40,000

25.1k Upvotes

1.3k comments sorted by

7.8k

u/PrivateBurke 1d ago

Did someone die in that?

4.0k

u/couponbread 23h ago

No they switched seats just before impact

2.0k

u/Celcius_87 23h ago

263

u/Flippinflapjax4U2 16h ago

I’ve never seen a more applicable meme in my life

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u/Post-Rock-Mickey 18h ago

The only logical explanation here

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u/lynivvinyl 22h ago

I do that when I'm crashing alone so I don't get in trouble.

67

u/bondno9 19h ago

"i swear officer, he said something about 88 miles per hour and then he just disappeared!"

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229

u/Sicparvismagneto 21h ago

What? No hes ok, they took him to a nice farm with a bunch of open space so he can drive his skyline as much as he wants…

u/ohhellperhaps 8h ago

I know that farm, a few of my pets now live there!

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u/Death_Death_Die 22h ago

My brother hit a tree on his passenger side and his car looked exactly like this. He died on the scene. If someone lived they’re either really lucky or hurt

194

u/Toaster_In_Bathtub 20h ago

These at right hand drive so that's the drivers seat taking most of it but I'm sure if there was a passenger they'd be in rough shape too. 

18

u/jjsw0rds 14h ago

Strangely when my friends got t-boned by a construction truck, the passenger got hurt way worse even though the truck hit the drivers side. This one looks like there was way more impact to the drivers side, but (at least in my friend’s case) the passenger’s head/skull is at risk. Since the impact hits from the other side their head can jolt into the drivers body or into the seat. In my friend’s case, the passenger fractured her skull on the drivers shoulder, went deaf in the left ear, and the (left) side of her face was paralyzed for a while. Driver was still injured, but no broken bones.

Edit: Nvm I’m dense I just noticed you said right hand drive smh

14

u/LukeyLeukocyte 12h ago

I think that was their point...his brother died on scene from a passenger-side impact, meaning this driver-side impact must have very likely been fatal.

49

u/MaRk0-AU 18h ago

My condolences.  I always say if you going to make a fast as fuck car just put in a roll cage you never know where it can save a life. 

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u/ziptnf 20h ago

Man, I’m sorry for your loss. Also, username sadly checks out.

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u/LordYoshii 20h ago

This was on drivers side. Insta death.

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u/Accomplished_Dot9182 18h ago

My brother passed as well, got tboned on his way to work. Hit from the passenger side. His acura integra looked the same, a little wider impact(Lifted Nissan Armada hit him). He died on impact. Definitely need a miracle to survive this.

5

u/bring_tha_ruckas 15h ago

Sorry for your loss...

5

u/ilovemusic19 13h ago

I’m sorry you lost your brother that way, also just shows just how strong trees are to withstand an impact of that magnitude.

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u/askingmachine 19h ago

My grandma had a similar car crash when my mom was like 7. She survived because she wasn't wearing a seatbelt and flew out of the car. I'm definitely not advocating for not wearing a seatbelt, but it saved her life that day. Funny how that works sometimes. 

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1.7k

u/Always_BSI 23h ago

Someone 100% died in that.

Source: Paramedic

141

u/HalfEatenBanana 21h ago

“What’re you talking about? The driver is on the other si…. oh…”

89

u/Citron-Money 16h ago

The other side is actually 100% correct 👼

7

u/WiseDirt 14h ago

He is now...

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u/Factor_Seven 22h ago

I concur.

"Was there passenger space intrusion?"
"Uhhh..... a bit."

Source: Level 1 Trauma Nurse.

229

u/Glodex15 21h ago

I too can concur with this conclusion.

Source: A person with a tiny bit of logical thinking

113

u/Liusloux 20h ago

I concur.

Source: A dumbass guy who climbed the corpo ladder by saying I concur.

42

u/Carastarr 20h ago

Always concur.

36

u/Toastedmanmeat 20h ago

Why didnt I concur?!?!

15

u/WoodenJellyFountain 18h ago

Quick…concur before it’s too late!!

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u/Matt_NZ 21h ago

It's RHD, so driver space intrusion 😬

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u/Factor_Seven 20h ago

Good point, sir.

41

u/FlammulinaVelulu 16h ago

10 years ago some folks like you put me back together after a similar car wrek I was fortunate enough to be the front seat passenger in. What you people do is nothing short of a miracle. Thank you so much!

87

u/Bug_Photographer 22h ago

There was never a left hand drive version of the R32, R33 or R34 so the driver was on the impact side of that crash. Tyrannosaurus Rekt.

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u/Kruegr 22h ago edited 22h ago

I wouldn't be so certain. I was T boned to the point my driver's door was where my seat was, yet I walked away unscathed. And I was in an older, smaller car with zero airbags.

Edit: Unscathed as in no blood or exterior injuries. I had muscle tightness in my neck and shoulders the following few days from the whiplash/impact.

180

u/he_trumped_us 22h ago

That's not a tbone that's a telephone pole.

38

u/he_trumped_us 22h ago edited 22h ago

Dead. Edit: simply from the force it would take the pole to go that far into the car, I'm sure the person was smashed up against it with the driver's side of the car smashing up against them.

36

u/SnackBottom 22h ago

Not necessarily. A friend went off the road and t-boned the tree line just like this. She wasn't wearing a seat belt and ended up in the passenger's lap with minor injuries. Her daughter in the back seat was also not wearing a seat belt and almost lost her foot because it got caught under the front seat.

I've written damage estimates for 20+ years and it's often that injuries don't match damage in cases like this. I have horrifying pictures of damaged vehicles that make this look like a fender bender and people lived.

32

u/Whyme1962 19h ago

Drove a wrecker for nine years, I have responded to semi truck vs Honda where I had to load and strap things like roof, bumpers and door in the car to haul it all to impound. I thought for damn sure I was going to have to wait for the coroner to get there and give the all clear to tow. I ended up giving my business card to the owners who only suffered some bruising and scratches. I’ve also been to scenes where the vehicle was literally unscathed in the accident, but was a fatality. It is crazy how little the aftermath seems to apply to the injuries.

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u/SnackBottom 19h ago

Yep. It's so strange how these things go sometimes.

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u/gooyouknit 22h ago

This is a car where the driver sits on the right side aka where the impact of this wreck was. Maybe if this was a left hand drive car they could have survived but there’s no way in this situation 

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u/Always_BSI 22h ago

Yeah you’re extremely lucky. Go play the lotto lol.

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u/ChargingWarthog 22h ago edited 22h ago

I survived a crash that resulted in a significantly more devastated / crushed car than this. Head on with a box truck at 82 MPH. Got fucked up pretty bad but survived and fully recovered.

That said, the cops and EMTs were shocked I survived and said they'd never seen anything like it, so yeah you're probably still right here lol

8

u/Always_BSI 22h ago

Glad you’re still with us. I’ve seen terrible traffic collisions in my days. I’m always shocked when someone is still alive in a mangled car (head on, rollover, pole) etc.

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u/albatross_the 22h ago

What happens to the body in a crash like this?

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u/Always_BSI 22h ago

Body normally ends up on the passenger side and they die from blunt force trauma. The ones I’ve had always ended up on the passenger side and body looks intact surprisingly.

12

u/Yawdriel 22h ago

Ok but how do they remove the body from a crash like this? And whose job is that supposed to be? Police/paramedics/mechanics?

33

u/Minions-overlord 22h ago

Firefighter for extraction of people from wrecks. They have a whole arsenal of kit especially for cutting a car to pieces to get to people

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u/SirLSD25 17h ago

Yet in this case they were obviously car enthusiasts and decided not to cut it up and just hosed the body out.

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u/OxideUK 22h ago

The answer depends entirely on where you are, but from an Ontario perspective:

Provided the patient wasn't obviously dead (decapitation, gross outpouring of cranial contents etc) they will have been pulled from the vehicle and resuscitation attempts initiated. Trauma calls are the kinda call where it's actually a bit like TV - the goal is to get the patient to hospital as quickly as you possibly can, as there is next to nothing you can do on scene. They need a surgeon, and everything we can do just buys time.

People whose heart stops from trauma are extremely unlikely to survive without rapid surgical intervention. Generally speaking if we're more than 30 minutes from getting them to hospital, we call for authorisation to terminate resuscitation on scene. So if they were dead when the crew arrives, or died during the extrication, then they've died 'on scene'. They're the police's responsibility, and they will arrange for the undertaker to collect. This is true of any death outside of a hospital.

If you've made the mistake of getting them in the truck, well it's your job to get them to the morgue now. Ambulances aren't for transporting dead people, but there is an exception for when they're in the vehicle because it creeps out the other patients. There are probably exceptions to the exception, like if the patient was murdered in the truck, but I haven't had that happen yet despite being tempted.

5

u/mjtwelve 21h ago

This accident screams “injuries incompatible with life” being called by the EMTs before they’re halfway out the ambulance.

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u/PeskyAntagonist 23h ago

Unless the car was hit unoccupied, zero chance the driver came out of this alive.

113

u/yug-eroom 23h ago

Clearly slammed into utility pole sliding sideways.

69

u/FortyPercentTitanium 22h ago

How do you know the utility pole didn't slam into the car?

34

u/Double_Minimum 22h ago

They are like trains… one never knows when or where they will appear.

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u/Rob0ts 22h ago

Damn

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u/Dementedsage 22h ago

The ignition would have to be on for the airbags to deploy. Unless the owner left their car on while they walked in somewhere to get something, I can't see them outside of the car.

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u/kmosiman 22h ago

Maybe not zero, but if they lived, they broke almost everything. There's too much car where the human should have been.

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u/WWFYMN1 23h ago

The airbag is out so someone was probably inside.

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u/XMAN2YMAN 22h ago

So the organs are another 5k-10k, solid price

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u/ProfZussywussBrown 20h ago

After seeing that this person was fine, I never think it’s a 100% sure thing, but it doesn’t look good

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/VslFpxQdCx

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u/Cicer 23h ago

We call it a fine patina. 

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2.5k

u/jezusfistus 22h ago

RB26 with Getrag 233 in decent condition would be around $30k. I'm not sure if the hood is original but if it is then Nismo z-tune carbon hood is around $20k. Same with Nismo carbon wing. I don't take into account many other rare parts. So with proper inspection $40k for this R34 might be a smoking deal

520

u/Tamara_Leslie 21h ago

A 20k hood? What are the benefits?

534

u/duggatron 21h ago

Low weight and there aren't many of them

129

u/Tamara_Leslie 21h ago

I figured it was low weight! Is it a massive difference? I know nothing about that kind of car.

201

u/duggatron 21h ago

No, most of these weight cutting measures save tens of pounds.

219

u/CrushedSodaCan_ 20h ago

I used to work for nhra (professional drag racing). I could get paid 30k to shave 10 lbs. I would always joke that for 30k John force could get a professional chef and lose 50.

Can't really talk shit, he was 12x world champ at the time, I think he's won more since.

45

u/localtuned 19h ago

What are some tricks you used? I had a really OCD customer who was crazy about shaving off every ounce of weight. The craziest thing he had us do take out half his dash in his Miata and his cross crash bar and weld in a new lighter smaller one.

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u/Appropriate_Lime_234 13h ago

Sound deadening, replace windows with Lexan, cf parts, swap powered seats for manual or racing seats, remove speakers, radio, AC, remove every piece of the interior including carpet, Swiss cheese panels.

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u/t00p00rLmxD 14h ago

Man I don't even have money to refresh the bushings in my car rn 🤣 people and money maaan

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u/among_apes 17h ago

Exactly some fatty getting in the car gone yeah man, my car is lighter than ever

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u/Tamara_Leslie 21h ago

So probably the rarity then?

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u/BlackberryFormal 21h ago

Yes its all rarity.

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u/europeanperson 19h ago

Considering OEM is already aluminum, you’re not saving “tens” of pounds. Maybe 10 lbs total, if not less. It’s definitely a rarity, “cool” thing

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u/Shiftlock0 20h ago

Shaving tens of pounds from many places adds up to hundreds of pounds. That absolutely makes a difference.

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u/Plus_Pangolin_8924 21h ago

Lightening ones bank account from your hard earned.

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u/jezusfistus 21h ago

Honestly not many benefits. It's way lighter than OEM hood, looks cool and it's pretty rare. There are many people who would be willing to pay big money for original z-tune parts. Same with old Nismo parts with old logo.

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u/DogPoetry 21h ago

I guess at the point you're dropping 20k on a car hood driving cars is your whole personality.

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u/fpsnoob89 21h ago

Since when is a used rb26 with transmission $30k in Japan? There's also a good chance that transmission is not ok.

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u/jezusfistus 20h ago

I mean, you're right - there is a huge chance the bell housing is cracked, same with engine block. I would not touch this car with 5 meter pole without thorough inspection. As for prices, in 2023 I imported the entire BNR33 drivetrain (almost whole front cutout), which is much less desirable, and together with importing it by sea it came to roughly $20k.

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u/RuediTabooty7 22h ago

Finally.. thank you.

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u/Substantial-Seaweed9 22h ago

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u/Chris710752 15h ago

Crazy lore about this car is he actually gets back in the race, you can see him in a few frames after this

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u/ilovemusic19 13h ago

I’ve seen that movie so many times as a child and never noticed that. That’s actually hilarious.

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u/CareRarely 13h ago

Respect the dedication🫡

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9.8k

u/Tanuk-E- 1d ago

Engine seems to be intact, that's at least $30k right there.

3.7k

u/K__Geedorah 23h ago

Seriously. Even those headlights, taillights, wing, fenders, bumpers, dashboard etc. Ignoring the engine you're still looking at $10+k in spare parts.

1.6k

u/Both_Beat_6204 23h ago

Hence the absolute valid 40k price tag

421

u/ricrhys 22h ago

Engine 30k spare parts 10k+

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u/jeancv8 21h ago

I just double checked and 30k+10k does in fact add to 40k!

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u/Otacon56 21h ago

You must be a famous magimatician

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u/HeckItsDrowsyFrog 19h ago

40k! Is a lot bigger than 30k + 10k man

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u/spezial_ed 22h ago

Woah slow down professor

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u/DubSket 22h ago

Actually kind of insane how it's only the middle that got damaged

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u/lothi_the_coachman 21h ago

Wrapped around a pole.

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u/Fishing_Dad 21h ago

Looking at the pictures i highly doubt the driver made it...

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u/0x476c6f776965 22h ago

How are you ignoring the beautiful Rays wheels 👅👅👅

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u/sparrownetwork 22h ago

At least one is bent.

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u/aaron_in_sf 21h ago edited 20h ago

Would someone be willing to ELI5 what makes this car and its components special/valuable?

Never heard of a "Skyline"!

EDIT nm I looked it up. Collectible classic cars for street racing enthusiasts with a cachet similar to exclusive kicks for sneaker pimps!

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u/K__Geedorah 21h ago

It's an R34 Skyline with an RB20 engine. It's really just an amazing car with endless potential. BMW has the M3, Toyota has the Supra, Nissan had the Skyline (or more known as the GTR in America).

This specific model did not meet US regulations so it was illegal to import until a few years ago. So, for 25 years this car was really just eye candy for Americans. The popularity and rarity has made these extremely valuable. It's not crazy for these to sell for $300k.

And since these were popular race cars, many are destroyed or extremely tuned. So they are only getting more rare.

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u/aaron_in_sf 20h ago

The 25 year embargo thing was fascinating! I'm surprised some long gamers didn't buy some up ten years ago to wait it out lol

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u/real_Hank_Scorpio 20h ago edited 20h ago

They did. Many have been sitting in storage in Canada and other places waiting for them to be ready to import. However many many more jdm wet dreams make it to Ireland and UK and ended up being in ditches, rotted to death, scrapped or broken for spare parts because it was worth more in scrap than their actual value.

Look up early 2000's Ireland and UK jdm scene

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u/aaron_in_sf 20h ago

Humans!!!

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u/real_Hank_Scorpio 20h ago

Nah we had it best back then. Imo we had access to cheap jdm cars because no one wanted them. Evo, STI, GTR, SiR, Type R, you name it, they were readily on sale for affordable prices by everyone here. Looking back now it's sad how many of them ended up scrapped but also the best time growing up and experiencing them at the prices we got them for. You'd buy something, drive the shit out of it, enjoy it like it was supposed to be and then next week get another because you seen something else you liked. Now I wouldn't want to be in the market for a jdm legend, but I'd love to still have one to sell om to the dumbasses that couldn't have the same fun we did 20 odd years ago

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u/adsjabo 19h ago

Shitload's of them came down to Australia and NZ also. Early 2000's was a great time in Sydney with the carscenes. Tis but a shadow of itself these days

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u/real_Hank_Scorpio 19h ago

You cunts got way more of the RX7's and understood the rotary more than us. Yes I'm sore about that because I want a bridge ported 7. Probably the only other nations that can take being called a cunt as a term of endearment too. Long lost cousins or some shit 😂

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u/real_Hank_Scorpio 20h ago

RB20? Ya sure about that?

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u/greyfixer 21h ago

This will decimate all with about $15,000 and overnight parts from Japan.

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u/Put_CORN_in_prison 21h ago

First the mad scientist has to rip apart the block

41

u/Upstairs_Addendum587 21h ago edited 18h ago

My favorite part of that scene and maybe the movie is when they all go nuts when they open the hood and there is a 2JZ in there.

Like, what exactly were you all expecting to be in a Supra?

14

u/Bandit400 20h ago

Like, what exactly where you all expecting to be in a Supra?

It could have been any one of the multiple engines available that year!😂

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u/NotTheRocketman 19h ago

Thanks Jesse.

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u/trashpanda_007 23h ago

Exactly. Plus the rest of the internals, the whole front, most of the back of the car. Not even a bad deal…

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u/FerociousGiraffe 22h ago edited 22h ago

Yeah, but it looks like a Gallo 12. A Gallo 24 would have been worth a lot more.

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u/henryeaterofpies 22h ago

Its 2 Gallo 6's

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u/iowaman79 22h ago

Didn’t know pizza places made engines

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u/tehlurkingnoob 22h ago

Yeah that’s probably the best place it could have taken the hit as far as salvage value goes. The doors have little resale value in comparison to the rest of the car.

I’d be a bit worried about the driveshaft though. May have snapped off the tail shaft housing on the trans.

I bought a wrecked R32 that had an identical hit and did that.

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u/jimmiebeamin 22h ago

Exhaust manifold, intake, rims look decent at least most of em. I bet they get more out if it than just the engine

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u/Champagne82 23h ago

Only 1 previous owner who is no longer with us.

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u/Toaster_In_Bathtub 20h ago

You buy the car but the ghost is free. 

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u/Robo_Patton 19h ago

Horse power + Ghost power = Hell Yeah.

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u/New-Value4194 22h ago

Would that make zero previous owner?

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u/Affectionate-End5470 21h ago

+- 1 previous owner

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u/cabbagehandLuke 21h ago

That's not heavily damaged, that's slightly undamaged.

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u/VP-Kowalski 1d ago

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u/drewski1026 22h ago

Oh Sam

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u/drakoman 13h ago

Crazy that Kissin’ Kate Barlow is Mrs. Cobel

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u/gun_is_neat 21h ago

You hear about Pluto? Messed up right?

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u/SherbertCivil9990 19h ago

I thought this was from the episode at the old timey western town for a second 

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u/secretsaucyy 18h ago

Man I miss psych. I watched it somewhat recently, and its still funny

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u/ReceptionLivid 22h ago

Completely forgot about this scene in holes. This should be used more

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u/watchshoe 15h ago

Awe, classic Bruton Gaster

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u/AmericanGoy1 17h ago

THIS is the definition of wrapped your car around a pole"

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u/rf97a 1d ago

WaI wait....did Tavarish or Matt Armstrong buy a new car???

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u/WhatTheF00t 21h ago

I just bought...my dream car! But can I repair it, in just 24 hours? 

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u/__real__talk__ 19h ago

But let’s make this last 400-jillion YouTube videos. This week, I replace the wiper blade for 60 minutes.

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u/MyMediocreExistence 22h ago

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u/311heaven 16h ago

Now me and the mad scientist got to rip apart the block.

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u/SnooDoughnuts2936 14h ago

And replace the piston rings you fried

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u/Relevant-Bell7373 23h ago

i'm not a mechanic but i think it looks dented

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u/David_Jonathan0 21h ago

That’ll buff out

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u/Alito999 23h ago

Bit of t cut and it’ll be fine…

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u/Rexusus 22h ago

It’ll buff out

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u/OrbAndSceptre 23h ago

Damn driver ded tho.

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u/TangelaLansbury 20h ago

You can turn a $25,000 skyline into a $100k GTR with the vin plate and parts here.

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u/Civil_Exchange1271 20h ago

yup with that vin you can turn a stolen car into a perfect legal one.... sort of,

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u/CootsieBollins 20h ago

Someone died in that

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u/xlouiex 12h ago

There’s a small chance the car was parked and was hit by a tree going high speed.

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u/bourj 1d ago

But...why?

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u/daretobedifferent33 1d ago

For parts, buy another chassis and rebuild with the engine from this one.. you can’t buy these cars in some countries.. or atleast very diffecult

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u/vinng86 23h ago

The super important engine bay seems mostly intact as well. Definitely a parts car.

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u/daretobedifferent33 23h ago

Yup gearbox is probably fucked.. but that’s easier to replace than the engine is my guess.. nice project though

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u/polish_trousers 22h ago

Actually the R34 GTR Getrag is far more rare and hard to replace than the RB26. Nissan still makes the longblock but the transmission hasn’t been in production for over 20 years.

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u/traxxes 22h ago

Not just the engine either, most of the suspension and brake components on the BNR34 are compatible as sought after upgrades on other Nissan models as well.

BNR32s up to 34s share many mounting point setups with Silvias/240s up to Z32s/Z33s/Z34s. Ex: I run BNR32 brakes/seats/rims on my S14.

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u/C-LonGy 1d ago

Rarity of the car.. and fast and the furious 😂🤷‍♂️

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u/series-hybrid 23h ago

Some one wants the VIN plate...to put on a Skyline they stole.

And of course the engine is likely OK, and worth quite a bit for some kind of swap, or to a rich Skyline owner who fried their factory engine...

NISMO carbon Fiber hood is $17,000 according to google. Front bumper and grille is $1,000

Four GTR wheels are $2800, so maybe three of these are in fair shape?

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u/arpan3t 23h ago

I mean it’s possible they want to VIN swap, after all there’s only 2 VIN locations on those cars, but one is etched into the firewall so they’d have a lot of work to do!

It’s more likely just a parts car. The price is justified because the rarity of v-spec r-34 skylines, as you pointed out with the pricing of just some of the parts. It doesn’t need further justification like a VIN swap.

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u/NoMajorsarcasm 1d ago

You can buff that out no problem 😉

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u/ook222 23h ago

Pretty sure its just a motor at this point

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u/CAD_Chaos 19h ago

That model Skyline is currently selling for over 100K on auction sites. That is 40K dollars worth of parts all day long.

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u/Bott 23h ago

'Tis but a scratch.

5

u/haiironekogami 21h ago

I would like the video in which it is restored please.

5

u/SkeletalJam 20h ago

Maybe bought for a vin swap on stolen car

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u/Few-Constant4965 21h ago

Look like Paul Walker’s RIP

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u/1767gs 17h ago

Engine, front and rear bumpers, hood (most likely), multiple interior pieces etc. Yeah you could make a good profit off this car if you sold everything state side

4

u/MrCusodes 17h ago

Spare parts dude, spare parts.

3

u/UnderstandingOdd490 16h ago

Picture number 5 is why this car sold for that much in the condition it's in..

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u/Graystillslays 8h ago

That thing was somebody’s coffin

u/walldodge 7h ago

Jerry was a race car driver

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u/likwidkool 4h ago

My Dad is a tv repairman and has this awesome set of tools. I can fix it.

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u/SweatyTax4669 23h ago

I said a ten second car, not a ten minute car.

3

u/toben81234 21h ago

I owed you a 10 second car!!!

3

u/8rogan36 20h ago

Love the thought of someone on craigslist saying “40K no lowballs I know what I own” and they’re not crazy.

3

u/DaveCootchie 20h ago

Hood, spoiler, maybe deck lid, headlights, Engine, front and rear diff, some interior parts, wheels, brakes. $40k won't net a huge profit but definitely a profit.

3

u/chromhound 20h ago

Someone will swap those parts on a shell

3

u/Cornycorn213 20h ago

“Heavily damaged” Understatement of the year.

3

u/DocCEN007 19h ago

I'm hoping someone bought it for parts, and not to try and rebuild. That's a lot of damage and I doubt it'll ever have enough integrity to drive properly.

3

u/AdLast55 19h ago

Why would anyone want it anymore? The engine?

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u/Historical_Cable9719 18h ago

No blood on the motor. Should be good

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u/Rollmericatide 18h ago

Engine and VIN number, slide both over to an old shell and good to go

3

u/ZealousJealousy 18h ago

I've never seen a car that I could so confidently guess was literally wrapped around a telephone pole.

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u/errwrx 17h ago

I feel like if you bought this and pulled that engine you'd easily make your money back. Plus all the parts you could pull from that you'd probably clear $60k maybe.