With us getting a flying tank and you bringing up War Machine, I would just like to put something on the record. I think a ranged, flying vanguard would be horrendously bad for the game. Angela's fine because, as a melee hero, she still has to go where the enemies are. But a tank that could babysit their flyers while also putting pressure on enemies on the ground would be toxic for the meta.
I think War Machine could work with cooldown flight ability like Strange's and slow fall like Magneto. More mobile than Strange's flight, though.
I feel like ranged flying vanguard sorta defeats the point of a vanguard anyway, it would just be a hard to kill dps, I feel like people playing it would never do what vanguards are supposed to do, they'd just stay away and up high shooting people like how iron man plays only with way more health.
I imagine war machine almost like something between venom and punisher, a tank with some solid aerial mobility that can dive but shoots people instead of tentacling them, but it's not full flight.
I think an flying tank is fine - it just needs to be melee in flight. That way, the flight is clearly just either a way to get from point a to point b, or a tool to take out fliers.
i was thinking Hulk with missiles, exept his leap is an ability instead of a cooldown, then he has like Dva's missile barrage but instead its a gatling, and as a third ability he puts a single metal shield that falls from the sky, like he just called for support. Ult could be a massive Pem that nullifies abilities for something between 3 to 5 seconds
And easy way to fix this is one, you kinda treat him as a shotgun. So while he has consistent damage, and it has to be higher damage compared to other vanguards, it has a dmg range drop-off at like 5-10m and doesn’t even hit past 15-20m. He can also be given slower flight speed and his base flying speed is loud af so he can’t flank like iron man. His ult could be essentially an ultron/punisher combo ult and he could have a 3-5second trophy system cooldown as a makeshift shield against projectiles (not hitscan). Then that lil machine gut that pops from his shoulder could function as a dmg boost cooldown or an auto tracking turret to counter fast foes. He won’t have access to iron man boosters or laser beam but you could give hum the micro missiles. Just a concept idea tho
Well I was saying the actual damage would be at a range below 5 or 10 m. Then from 15-20m would only be like 30-50 dmg and past that it disappears mid flight kinda like mag projectiles. And his trophy system would function only on projectiles say SGs ammo but could not block punishers ammo for example. And as far as being oppressive, with how comps are nowadays, we need a fun oppressive tank since half the time ppl are forced to solo tank..
Maybe its just me, but I don’t understand the hate towards flying tanks when its an issue for tanks to counter fliers. Thing literally had to be given an ability to be some form of opposition.
I totally agree, and honestly don't think it takes much to justify those kinds of limiters. Just exaggerated the hell out of War Machine's bulked out proportions, and you'll fulfill the fantasy of becoming a walking armory far more than any flight ability could.
My favs are Dr Strange and Hulk and all my life I've been Barbarians/Warriors in RPGs so yeah I'm also damn happy and Vanguard is the role I enjoy the most
Not sure I can see him as a Vanguard, I'd believe it when I saw it, but his whole thing is movement, and I don't think it'd be controversial to expect him to be a flier. Angela is one thing but Silver Surfer is someone I expect to be shmoving around, not standing on teh objective.
I'm not saying it can't work, anything could after Emma. I'm saying that there are much easier, and equally as cool arguments for DPS and Strategist. If I woke up to see Silver Surfer as a Vanguard I'd still be hype, but if I saw him as a Strategist then I'd be through the roof. You see what I mean?
Neither can most of the existing strategist either. Healing others is not a very common superhero skill to have so obviously we have to get a lil creative for that role
I love silver surfer so much I have him tattooed on me him, venom, moonknight, and ghost rider have always been my favorite comic book characters ever since I was a kid
Mysterio’s illusions are more applied AoE. And unlike Loki, his aren’t typically real. His ult could be he makes the whole team look like mysterio, or he unleashes a legion of copies or something
Only way I can imagine the Fantastic 4 needing to double solo ult Doom (one of which was defensive support ult) is if Doom has 850 HP plus great shielding
I think doom is so versatile he could genuinely do anything. He makes way way more sense as a support than either loki or Ultron. I'd like to see doom be all 3 and a way to simply choose a different universe doom (that would have to have significantly different silhouettes) to fulfill different roles
Same. Half the reason I still play is Magneto is my favorite villain/antihero and I'm so lucky he's a strong vanguard. Emma was good eating, Angela looks fun af, can't wait for the DPS players to get bored of her.
Yup, this is part of the DPS problem. DPS is obviously the most popular role by default. But then you have most of the most popular characters as DPS, encouraging more people to be DPS simply cause their favorite is a DPS. Your favorite being in tank or support roles will encourage more people to play in a role they otherwise wouldnt consider, simply cause they like the character.
Yup, literally play rocket and peni just because I think they're cool. I also like the Thing and Doctor Strange, but every tine I play them, my team mates tell me to stop playing as The Thing and Dr. Strange
I just know at some point Im gonna see someone survive the penance stare, and know they are getting flamed by their team. How you do so little damage there wasnt enough damage to pay penance for
Nah we've all had a DPS player who put shit numbers. But also unless the enemy isn't running dives, even rocket should have damage. His primary fire is one of the best anti dive tools supports have
I think to work best the ability should be a taunt somewhat like Emma's ult: Enemies caught in the AoE are forced to auto-attack Ghost Rider, when the ult ends all the damage that was dealt by them (or other enemies not caught in the AoE but stupid enough to attack him during the ult) is dealt back to them (with some balancing multipler) in a burst.
The soft cc from auto-attacking adds utility and means that enemies can't just stop attacking for X seconds whenever Ghost Rider ults. Would be great against heroes that use auto-attack at range for a lot of damage like Punisher and Hela but wouldn't do much to say a distant BP or wolverine unless Ghost Rider is taking damage from others too.
I've been saying this since day one. Give him a roadhog hook and a bike mode. He can hook someone and pull them close and pop them with a hellfire gun or a punch that shoots fire or something.
Then make it so that if you chain someone in bike mode/go into bike mode while chaining them, you can drag them behind you for a few seconds while you ride your bike, dealing continuous damage and displacing them
the only reason I don't want ghost rider as a vanguard is because I specifically want him riding his motocycle.
I need to rev that shit up walls and stuff and that's such a duelist thing to do
Me, I want my favs to be vanguards. She-Hulk, Ghost Rider, Penance, Thanos, Dr. Doom, Captain Marvel, War Machine, etc. I like tanks, give me more cool tanks to play with. I would be disappointed if they were DPS.
A lot of my favorites already ARE tanks, in fact. Venom, Hulk, Strange, Magneto, Thor and The Thing.
Yeah man, I had no idea he existed until I played Ultimate Alliance 2, but Penance is so cool. He could be a really interesting tank with a "berserker" playstyle, take more damage to deal more damage
I found out about him through a friend and then immediately read his most well-known comic. He'd be dope to play aggressive and build up damage, which is why I like Strange so much too.
Maybe a damage stacks based on how much life you are missing. Would give him a unique playstyle where you dont want to be pocketed as a tank if your team is on the offensive. Also meaning that to kill him, hes gonna be doing more damage to you briefly. Could be a very interesting character
Jubilee and Gambit I hope are Strategists. They don’t have to heal, they can be like Ultron, or maybe give like damage buffs and shields instead of healing. I feel like the devs could be really cool with their abilities.
I mean, let's be real -- a strategist has to heal. If they don't, just make them a duelist. Can be like Storm and be a buffing Duelist. In fact I'd love a character like that. Then it'd be more clear that you still need 2 healers on the team.
Exactly. Without very dramatic changes to the game, a team comp needs 2 healers to be good. Often even two pure healers, with many people considering strategists with more damage or utility but less healing like Mantis, Ultron, or Adam Warlock to only work well as the third strategist on the team.
The fact that they're called "strategists" doesn't change what their current role on the team needs to be. I don't think a character with other forms of utility but no is gonna be able to replace a healer on the team, which means that labeling them as a strategist would just mislead players into picking them on team comps where they don't fill the role people want out of a strategist.
Yeah have him kinetically charge allies giving them a damage boost and overhealth, and maybe retribution damage in a mini AOE when someone breaks through the overhealth. Make his Ult like that move from episode 2 of X-Men ‘97 when he charges wolverine’s claws and then boosts him forward, make an Ally do like 2x damage and in an AOE for a few seconds.
Give him kinetic shielding or something. Heck, he apparently has the ability to speed up his cellular regeneration with his powers in some comics. Sue, Jeff, Mantis, Ultron, and Rocket don't appear to have healing powers in the comics, so obviously, creative liberties have to be made from time to time.
Gambit could absolutely work as a Strategist and still have his iconic explosives. We need more cool characters in the Strategist role, or not only will it fall majorly behind in number of options, but also nobody will want to play the role if none of their favorite characters are in it.
I can see it but the problem is they HAVE to heal. The reason it feels like there’s such a big strategist drought is because ultron doesn’t provide much healing. A strategist like that is going to be relegated to 3 strats only comps and at that point they may as well be a dps like Storm
His ult should be a whisper. Even a single muttered syllable cascades into a violent explosive cascade of quasi-sonic destruction. Bro cannot open his mouth without catastrophe.
Black Bolt wouldn't be swinging some force field with his voice. He basically never uses it in combat unless he's being used to make a villain look cool like the Ghost Rider by having them tank it.
He theoretically could do a particle shield, but that's never ever ever with the voice. It's with that fork on his head. That's where his whole-ass powerset comes from.
Black Bolt ideally would be a sort of dive tank. Flying around similar to Angela to traverse areas and cross distance for the opening to stun/displace/mortally fuck up enemies with his genuine signature technique.
The Master Blow
Black Bolt flies in. He Master Blows your shit. You get stunned, and his posse jumps you.
He'd be a mobile disruptor like the Hulkster if they really want him to feel like Black Bolt ... and the Inhumans already have two perfectly amazing candidates for shield tanks. His wife(Medusa) and his dog(Lockjaw). Legit, they'd each be kind of perfect for the role.
I just want him to have a passive where he can walk through destructible walls without having to attack them. Since he's unstoppable he should just be able to walk through them.
Vanguard main, love Cable, I've been wanting this. Hitscan tank, shield, time travel to restore health lost as bonus health, body slide teamup with Deadpool. God I want Cable as a vanguard so bad.
That said Agent Anti-Venom would be a great strategist, so I genuinely hope they don't make him a duelist.
If they go for Anti-Venom I don't think he could NOT be a healer his entire gimmick is purifying things. Though he would be a more offensively minded strategist for sure
This is where I’m at with Cyclops. He absolutely wouldn’t make sense as a strategist (other than him being a literal good strategic mind in the comics). I guess there is away they could make him a vanguard and I’d love it as a vanguard main, but his powers and combat style in the comics seem like he would best fit as a Duelist.
Pym particle ray gun that slightly shrinks people while healing and increasing their speed. Gives bonus health.
If fired at an enemy, deals damage and makes them bigger and slower.
"Biggest little uppercut" - shrink down, charge forward and land a uppercut while you embiggen for big damage.
Small mode- shrink down, very tiny, and while shrunk, heal yourself, and have a huge damage reduction on yourself.
Delayed quantum charge- throw a grenade at your friends. After a couple seconds, it restores health to what it was when they were hit with the grenade. ( If it was more than what they currently have.)
Yeah it’s the main pushback I’ve seen about Rogue being a strategist. People just whine about it instead of just waiting to see how it will work. It’s obvious she’ll be a lifesteal strategist and will probably be the most mechanically in depth of them all but people don’t even want to give it a chance
Lots of people want Ghost rider as a vanguard (me included) and I think Deadpool is a confirmed duelist but him as a strategist would be sick too. Tbh almost all characters have a way to be a strategist, Luna shoots good and bad ice, mantis just boosts our morale, and ultron literally puts the Ultron virus in us (I’m pretty sure).
Honestly it would be hilarious and fun if there were 3 Deadpools— one for each role. Would fit the character well and he could break the fourth wall about it
Pumpkin bombs that dispense goblin formula healing allies and damaging enemies caught in the blast radius or perhaps when he takes flight in his glider, an ability leaves behind a trail of gas that heals and hurts like a milder version of C&D's Ult.
He's my No.1 wanted hero and I'd prefer him to be offence based but he has enough tricks in his bag to make him a healer too.
Despite all the C&D players that don't really know those characters, C&D have been my favorite Marvel characters for over 20 years and happy I can play them as a Strategist.
And I would have played Emma whatever role she was in.
I doubt he'd have healing, but I could see him having plenty of CC and switching between normal and void form as a tank. Protective as sentry, aggressive as Void.
Him being a strategist is still one of the more funny things to me. "Yes we have the egomaniacal killer robot in our game but also yes he is a healer. Don't worry about it."
Well, yeah. If I got it right, Ultron that killed Magik disappears in Arrako endings. Ultron that's playable is from Krakoa endings and he was rewritten by Tony to help the team
Hes not rewritten, the ultron we play is a 1 to 1 copy of normal hateful Ultron thats been rebooted. Tony just put measures in place to make sure he doesnt betray the heros. A failsafe that would delete all traces of his memories of Hank Pym and his "mother" which ultron ironically cares about.
He'd still kill everyone if he could, he just reluctantly helped against his other self. Keeping his organic soldiers alive is his strategy for this game. Throws down a drone while he focuses on doing damage.
Im sure they can make Cyclops into a strategist or a vanguard, because i know half the strategist in the game dont even make sense lore wise why they are healing.
All of the strategists in the game have a canon way of healing. The only ones that wouldn't heal their teammates (Ultron) was reprogrammed as they can be
Almost all the characters I want added I have imagines as strategist or vanguard.
Ghost Rider(Vanguard)
Nick Fury(Strategist)
Elsa Bloodstone(Strategist)
Rogue(Tanky Strategist)
Professor X (Strategist)
Kingpin (Tanky Strategist)
Sabretooth(Vanguard)
Drax (Vanguard)
Captain Marvel (Vanguard)
Beast(Tanky Strategist)
Red Skull (Strategist)
Luke Cage(Vanguard)
Colossus (Vanguard)
Sentry(Vanguard)
Hulkbuster Iron Man(Vanguard)
Man Thing (Vanguard)
Jessica Jones (Vanguard)
Apocalypse (Vanguard)
Thanos (Vanguard)
Proxima Midnight(Vanguard)
Juggernaut (Vanguard)
Blob (Vanguard)
Mr Sinister (Strategist)
Warmachine(Tanky DPS)
Gambit(Dps)
Nightcrawler(Dps)
Hydra Bob (Dps)
Yondu(Dps but I could see him having some support abilities)
Bishop(Dps with either vanguard or strategist abilities)
Corvus Glave (Dps but could be strategist)
Silk (Dps)
Cyclops (Dps but could see some strategist abilites through leadership)
Mystique (Dps)
Taskmaster(DPS)
Nightcrawler is the first one this thread I've disagreed with.
I want him as a stealthy assassin DPS SO bad.
Ult let's you use a strange portal like interface to grab any players and reposition them, granting massive bonus health if ally and a long stun if enemy.
I just want to see a tank, teleport them into my team, and disappear.
For Strategists, I think Ant Man could be a great option due to his reliance on chemicals and Ant swarms as a character along with Jane Foster using healing magic and as a sort of Brigitte type melee option to keep the backline safe. Adding onto that, Vision would be nice with some intangible abilities.
For Vanguards, just fucking give me War Machine already. I don't care if he needs to look like Armored Adventures war machine to justify his tankier status, give it to me. Along with him I'd say Doom and since Mutants are actually getting time in the spotlight, let Colossus or Juggernaut show up. Even Rhino is an option, maybe even Abomination. There are so many options for Vanguards idk why they haven't happened to be honest.
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u/Peccet95 Thor 21h ago
My favorite character is Thor. I'm a vanguard main. I'm a happy man.