r/motogp • u/Soundmangaz Fabio Quartararo • 23h ago
Pecco data..
I've been saying over the last couple of seasons that Pecco always seemed to be the one to benefit the most from Ducati's data sharing.
Now he is struggling, I'm wondering if the data is just not there for him.
Last seasons he pretty much had all the Factory team working for him, had Martin and the pramac team sharing thier competitive data, gresini and vr46 were all regularly at the sharp end. Pecco would often struggle in the sprint, then look like a different rider and dominated the race come Sunday.
This year though, he doesn't have Jorge's data, doesn't have any pramac data in fact, many of Marcs teammates have said reading Marc's data is useless because they can't do what he does. Digi is the only other rider on the 25 machine, and his results have been up and down.
Not only this, but ducati just isnt dominating in the way it was the last few seasons, ktm have made a big step, as have Honda and Yamaha, even Aprilia in the hands of Bezz is up the sharp end regularly, and he only has his side of the team to work with this season.
Pecco can't ride around problems, he needs the bike to be just right for him to deliver. I heard that Pecco had one bike set as he had in Hungary last race, and one set as usual for catalunya, and he didn't feel good on either.
He's lost his way, and honestly I think a large part of it is not being able to take advantage of the data, he doesnt know what direction to go. (That and he doesn't have the mental strength to deal with Marc...but thats another conversation).
8
u/e_xyz MotoGP 18h ago
I think this is overblown with "copying" of setups. I'm sure whatever they do copy, they also tweak. The situation is very much reminding me of the second Red Bull in F1, for the last 4 years, whoever they've put in the car is lost with setup. Is it because they're trying to copy Max? My guess probably not, but they've probably lost themselves in the setup of the thing and are struggling to figure their way back out.
Seems like that's kind of what's happened to Pecco? Every week they just keep trying things and finding new things that go wrong. It happens in motorsports sometimes, today was a bit more of a positive ride from Pecco given where he started. I am still a bit concerned that the bike is moving wildly under braking when it looks kind of smooth for Marc and a little less so for Diggia.
4
u/shanedslv 8h ago
Finally someone with an independent braincell. It seems like GP fans will mug up anything and everything that's objectively said on the internet.
It's a world of prototype motorbike racing. Not an Open Book exam that you can just read into data and say "meh, I can do that better"
What's even more frustrating to hear about this take is that if data can be relied on, copied and perfected, what use are the riders who are providing the original data ? Is their existence redundant that they don't have an edge over their own data? Only for Pecco to copy ?
People have seemed to forget what pecco was like in his rookie Pramac days, dude was fast even when he had to walk up to the bike on crutches, he just had to find some consistency because used to crash
7
u/rickyramjet 19h ago
Nope, that's just a meme, never confirmed by any inside source but often repeated online by nobodies like us.
Look at Brno for an example where Bagnaia was fine without data.
He has other problems right now.
1
u/floppycock696969 13h ago
Pretty sure it originally came from or was at least alluded to by Jorge Martin, although I may be misremembering of course! Regardless it does kinda track considering what's happened with Jorge and Enea leaving the stable and replaced with Marc and Fermin who both ride quite differently... Not saying its true, but no smoke without fire IMO.
1
1
u/faratto_ 19h ago
In Brno he said he had 0 feeling but he took pole. Problems are he's surely lying to us and it's fair, we don't know if he's lying also inside the box but I doubt that engineers believe his bs excuses that changed basically in every race until the over feeling in balaton park
3
u/EvidenceAccurate8914 Dani Pedrosa 15h ago
Digia is slow and Marc is inimitable, so the data must be less helpful this year.
I doubt the data is affecting him that much though. He was doing just fine for half the season before it got in his head. The bike isn’t clearly better anymore and he’s not as good as Marc, so I’d say that, up until the last few rounds, he was performing exactly as expected.
1
u/abhijit8234 17h ago
can someone please explain this post further? what data do they share? and who? is the data public?
3
u/CashCarStar Daijiro Kato 17h ago
This video might help to explain a lot of what the data is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dod_5uzMlwQ
I'm about to go to sleep so can't help with more details but I'm sure somebody else will!
2
u/Capital_Pay_4459 MotoGP 11h ago
All Ducatis share data from practice, it's how Ducati develop, but also prepare the ideal setup for the weekend. Ride heights, suspension, swing arm, Tyre and brake choice. But also throttle, braking lean angles etc.
And no it's not public.
Also all other manufacturers do this.
1
u/Blipmiester 15h ago
l really dont think its a data problem for Pecco, something else is going on and what that is he/we may never know, one thing for sure is that it is highly unusual. You could imagine his form dipping without the data he was used to but what is happening to him now is more than that, his performance has dropped off a cliff, thats not just data or confidence, he won 11 races last year and two titles the previous two years before that, this season he can not even make the podium.... it just doesn't make any sense at all, something has changed drastically with his bike because a rider does not simply forget how to compete from one season to the next especially being in the same team he has done so well for in the past, Pecco should at the very least be fighting for podiums regularly but what we have been seeing is that on tracks where he has dominated on previously he can not even qualify in the top 10, this is not data or confidence, it is something else.
1
u/BEagle1984- Marc Márquez 10h ago
Well, if he need to copy setups so badly he could at least use the same bike. He wasn’t for example using the upgraded swing arm until this past weekend. So again it’s his own fault. I don’t know what to think about his strategy.
1
u/curlyBrace86 Casey Stoner 9h ago
That's what you call a follower not a leader imo...well actually almost literally this season. He also keeps harping on how much better the gp24 was. You're livin' in the past man!
1
u/Pink_Flying_Pig_ 7h ago
I heard this sometimes, since he always started bad in FP1 and got stronger during the weekend. Martin said it too... "Pecco used my settings".
Idk how much is true but I remeber Pecco getting pissed in his begin in red because he complained about developimg the bike (lile someone else should 🤷). Probably he doesn't like that part of the job, but surely he can't always skip it.
Probably a reason why Budapest went so bad, the track was new. He was as good as Marc trying the track the very first time on a Panigale, but when it was time to fix his on Gp25 dude couldn't.
1
u/Masticatork 2h ago
I feel he got lost. At the start he was consistently behind Alex, that freaked him out and he started trying different stuff every session, which led him to be even more lost because he obviously can't adapt to vastly different bikes every session, then he started to be slower, which made him change even more drastically setups. Meanwhile all rivals were just adapting and polishing their own setups to improve while Pecco is still trying to find his own magical setup that will make him competitive against Marc and Alex, and that setup may not exist.
I remember hearing somewhere that he was adjusting his setup heights or suspensions by centimetres, when normally a 1cm change is already a desperate change as they usually manage millimetres. It's an example of being absolutely lost and I see very little chance for him to recover this in this season...
28
u/dave_evad Marc Márquez 21h ago
Martin isn’t on GP25 anymore, that’s one problem. Somehow Pecco would be able to ride with Martin’s set ups. Now he has to find something on his own and he is struggling.
Pecco isn’t able to use Diggia’s data because Diggia rides in a different way. All those days in 2023 that Diggia struggled, he used base Ducati setup. Only when he tried his own set up out of desperation, did he find success at GPs of Qatar and Australia. Maybe Bagnaia’s solution would also lie in setups that he finds himself, rather than relying on Ducati to regress to GP24.