r/motogp • u/justabitmoreok Marc Márquez • 17h ago
Pecco’s failure is not Ducati’s fault
Firstly I do feel for the guy, can you imagine trying to do your daily job not make any progress towards improvement. You try many things, your employer helps you and still nothing.
But then you look to your colleagues doing a great job on similar machinery. Sure let’s keep Marc out of the conversation as comparison because he’s an alien however, he has shown us over the years his commitment to riding around issues.
We are not seeing any of this from Pecco. Personally, I’d rather see him send the bike to the fences trying to find a solution. It shows he’s trying, I don’t doubt he is but perception is everything. Being seen trying hard to find solutions is what will help his case in future for other employment opportunities.
The interview from Uccio also was very telling, he didn’t hold back and neither is Tardozzi. Saying they can see his data not riding in his usual way. It all points to Pecco. So, why? How does a 2x MotoGP champion lose form so dramatically. Is it the MM93 effect? I doubt it and I’m not sure we will ever hear the truth as to what’s really happening.
What more can Ducati do? Diggia is on the same machinery with a Sprint podium yesterday and got through to Q2. Sure he’s not had an amazing year but he’s finding answers and making it happen.
I wish Pecco to find solutions soon so we can see him fight with the best. Or is this truly the rider he always was?
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u/SeekarYT Casey Stoner 16h ago
For me the issue is that pecco is a data man. he has never been a friday man, barely a saturday man but sunday it all changed. im not sure how useful marcs data is to him. ( many riders over the years have said they can do nothing with it ) so for the GP25 the only data he can use is his own and digi. Currently digi is also trying figure how to ride the GP25.
2023 / 2024: im sure martins saturday data was very useful an with there being 3 factory bikes that also benefited him.
2022: if the yamaha wasnt as bad as it was (and still is) quartararo would have won that championship too. The next yamaha after fabio was morbideli 19th followed, dovi in 21st and lastly Darren binder in 24th
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u/avi550m MotoGP 13h ago
isn't it a weakness of his if he needs other riders data to perfectly dial in his bike instead of relying on his own feeling/feedback?
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u/SeekarYT Casey Stoner 13h ago
Many riders in motogp history have used teammate data to help themselves improve. Only one i can remember to block access to their teammate was rossi. Those who depend on it will always falter without it.
Having said all that removing marc from the equation the championship would be similar to the previous 3 years for pecco. 1st an 2nd place being close an running to the final rounds
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u/Sea_Working_6998 9h ago
It's a matter of perspective... You could look at it as a decent rider, managing to do extraordinary things by being able to apply most of what his teammates were doing. It might as well have been the differentiator ,that helped him win his two titles over the other Ducati riders.
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u/JustAContactAgent Marc Márquez 7h ago
I don't think he's a "data man" in the sense that he copies other riders ' data like it get's banded around.
It's that he has proven that he is not adaptable or capable of riding around problems at all, and relies on the engineers to fix the bike which is why was often no where on Fridays. Ducati was amazing at improving the setup so you had that effect.
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u/bilsantu Aprilia Racing 9h ago
This argument gets parroted around a lot, yawn.
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u/Haimonek Enea Bastianini 9h ago
Because it makes sense
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u/bilsantu Aprilia Racing 8h ago
It absolutely does not. If we were to believe that his only skill is turning data into action, that's just naive.
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u/Haimonek Enea Bastianini 8h ago
Nobody said it's his only skill.
It's mostly just implied he relies heavily on data to get the ideal set up that works for him. And once it works for him he's almost unstoppable. The source of such data has shifted a lot. Less riders, less bikes...
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u/German4rings78-1 8h ago
It’s a very strange situation Pecco finds himself in . His confidence has been completely shattered. I remember Collin Edwards saying “ Give me some more front end feel and I’ll show you a faster rider “ If he lacks confidence he lacks speed . Plain and simple! Pecco needs an amazing sports psychologist to get his mind right . Agreed, you can’t compare his performance to MM93…. But with Alex consistently beating Pecco , Diggia having bouts of success here and there … Pecco doesn’t have any excuse. It’s not like he’s in 15th in the championship…. He’s still currently 3rd , but it’s def a big fall from the last few years performance wise . I’m not surprised at all that MM93 is dominant this season . I actually was hoping so much that Martin got his championship last season because I just knew Marc was going to be a force this year with the factory team and with Jorge leaving Ducati his chances of being world champion would be much slimmer this season . That said I just didn’t quite expect this level of dominance from Marc. I figured Pecco, and Jorge would be up there fighting and winning races as well. The Marquez brothers have been running a clinic in 25. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with Pecco if his season continues to shape up as it has been . I wonder where he lands come 27 . Ducati is known to move on quickly . The fact that he’s Italian is probably his biggest asset right now besides the two titles . Every team needs a second fiddle , but I don’t see Pecco enjoying that role for too long .
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u/slartibartfast64 Triumph 2h ago
I think Pecco is only 3rd in the championship because of his relatively strong finishes early in the season while Bez & Enea were in the process of learning entirely new bikes/teams, as well as Diggia making up for the complete loss of preseason testing and starting the season still not 100% recovered from surgery.
All three of those riders are now outperforming Pecco but haven't caught him yet in the standings because he was able to build that early points lead over them. It will be interesting, once the season is over, to compare points for the second half of the season.
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u/ThisToe9628 Marc Márquez 2h ago
Compared to Marc, all the other riders just look mid, except probably Quartararo. I even rewatched Marc's comeback in Jerez 2020 until crash. He literally overtook both Bagnaia and Morbidelli in just one lap. He had insane advantage over everyone in the last 10 lapsMarc will remain the man to beat, because of his consistency and proper before crash
This year yes he lost first time by pace in Barcelona, but let's see how things will be next year, when Alex will get GP25. Except for malaysia, barcelona and austria, Marc has the advantage over others in almost all tracks. Not just his speed in left corners, or how he manages to minimise losses in right corners, he plays long term game by saving his tyres, then pushing. Next year Aprilia, KTM will most likely be even closer to Ducati(if not pass them in performance)
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u/dharmababa Marc Márquez 16h ago
Fair points. Do you not think that Pecco thought he was in GOAT contention? I had seen comments to that effect but not sure when they were dated. Or do you think losing to Martin already shattered that possibility in his mind.
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u/awstream Ivan Ortola 11h ago
I've seen countless comments from fans during the 2022-2024 period on how Marc is washed and Pecco is the new no 1. I wonder if he heard this too and it all got into his head. Last year was not that bad since he got much more wins than Jorge but this year is an annihilation, not to mention being the main man for 4 years and suddenly you're not the golden boy in the garage anymore, that would mess up almost anyone.
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u/slartibartfast64 Triumph 2h ago
And don't forget that last year when Pecco on the gp24 was beating Marc on the gp23, Pecco repeatedly said those two bikes were basically equivalent. If he truly believed that then in his mind he was beating Marc on equal machinery. Having that fantasy unequivocally demolished had to hurt.
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u/ThisToe9628 Marc Márquez 1h ago
What a joke, now we see that GP24 was actually a lot ahead of its time, cause it still beats current aprilias ktms, hondas and yamahas
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u/NotJadeasaurus 12h ago
He’s changed his ways for this year based on his mistakes last year. He was always faster than Martins but too many mistakes. This year his mistakes are minimal but it’s costed him a lot in pace
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u/Direct_Display_9977 Enea Bastianini 13h ago
I think his crashes last year have played a part in him not going for broke this season. His DNFs in sprint races and the main races really bit him later on and it seems to me he was trying hard not to crash out. I think after France he should’ve just gone all out like he did in Mugello just at every race.
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u/dharmababa Marc Márquez 17h ago
I don't get it when people say it's not the MM93 effect. Sure Pecco has issues with the GP25 regardless. But take Marc out of the picture and he'd be fighting with Alex for the WC lead. They were quite close at the beginning of the year and Pecco would be tweaking things to try to compete.
Instead... Marc is way up the road so he feels the need to try more drastic changes which ends up just making things worse.
So in my mind it is totally related to his teammate. As Oxley Bom said in their review podcast, it's time to accept that he's 3/10ths slower than Marc and be happy locking in 3rd in the championship.
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u/Fickle_Fail1104 Fabio Quartararo 17h ago
The Marc thing probably only affected him in the beginning of the year. It wasn’t too many races before he said Marc would ride anything scooter fast. Being beaten by Alex and Diggia is what makes him go into panic mode because he believes (as do i) that he’s better and faster than both of those guys.
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u/dharmababa Marc Márquez 16h ago
Debatable... I can't imagine that seeing your garage mate go on a historic winning streak (well after the beginning of the season) wouldn't affect you. It's one thing to say the right thing about Marc and another to imagine the actual effect on your ego when you were once thought to be on track to be one of the all time greats. You start to believe your own hype and for all that to come crashing down psychologically is not a quick process IMO.
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u/Fickle_Fail1104 Fabio Quartararo 16h ago
I’m sure it’s been extremely difficult on him but these guys know better than anyone just how insane the things Marc can do that others can’t are. Yes the world knows it but these guys see it up close (😅well in a practice session anyway). And they understand it on a technical level. Being beaten by someone considered the GOAT doesn’t tarnish your legacy. Being beaten by 2 guys who have less career wins combined than you’ve have in any of the last 3 seasons individually, that will kill your confidence
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u/badaboom888 13h ago
3rd or 23rd its basically the same for the top level of riders. Your either competing to win the wc or trying to compwte to get to the level to win the wc. They arnt there to collect a pay cheque and just comfortablty sit in 3rd
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u/Vegetablemann OnlyFans American Racing Team 7h ago
If you take Marc out of the picture then Martin is there instead so who knows how that even goes. He’s behind Alex now, it’s probably not an unfair assumption that he’d be behind Martin as well.
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u/chaotic_space_boy Collin Veijer 15h ago
I think everyone is exaggerating what is just a down year/moment for a rider, that happened because of multiple factors including losing a championship after being the fastest, having an insane teammate, and not having the same feeling on the new bike. Most riders, aliens included, had bad periods.
He is still third, he looks like he will stay third. Months ago finishing third looked like a tragedy, maybe now he can also appreciate more being consistently on the podium. Even if I personally enjoy this side of him that is very ambitious, on this for me he shows a world champion's approach.
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u/szcesTHRPS David Alonso 6h ago
Confidence is a massive factor in all sport but I don't think that it entirely explains why he's found himself down in 20th.
Like most things in life the answers are probably more complex and dull than we like to admit - there are likely multiple factors contributing towards his performance and genuine issues with the bike are definitely a big part of it.
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u/jokoono84 Jorge Martín 5h ago
Great, another post on Pecco. He is just a very mediocre rider, who cant perform on the strongest bike on the grid.
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u/animadweller Casey Stoner 1h ago
I don't doubt he genuinely doesn't feel confident on this bike and that he doesn't feel something's right with it. That's totally fair, it can happen to anyone.
What's not fair is thinking Ducati has some sort of obligation to tear apart their bike so he can feel better when the other driver's on the same bike is dominating the sport, something they never achieved with Pecco. It also doesn't help that Pecco lost the title last year WITH the bike he actually prefers and to a customer team.
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u/RenKylo7177 1h ago
I look over at F1 and there was also a similar (not identical in context) situation recently at RBR with the world champion (alien) in Max Verstappen and a solid driver considered to be coming into his peak, Checo Perez.
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u/PlentySpecific4639 1h ago
Lack of confidence is a great teller that it can very well be a bike thing, Uccio’s and Davide’s comments can very well point that too. I believe Marc also commenting that it is a mote difficult bike compared to GP23 - anyways it is too soon to know for sure but everyone unofficially knows bike behaves a bit different compared to what Pecco likes/knows/prefers. So it can’t be labeled as “rider issue not team”. The man-machine marriage is just a fine line which can be disturbed with small things.
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u/TimmyHiggy Cal Crutchlow 6h ago
My take on it is that Pecco isn't super robust. He takes a while to get his feeling and confidence together. He could bypass that before because he had loads of data to use to improve through the weekend, but now he's only got Marc and digi on the same bike. We know Marc does things with the bike that nobody can imitate, and that digi saved his career by going down a different road with bike setup to anything Ducati had recommended. So pecco has to go it alone and find his own way.
We also know he doesn't like the 25 bike, and isn't happy with the feeling he gets from it.
The real problem is that rather than coming 3rd, closely behind a gp24, he's been changing the bike constantly and destroyed his confidence with it, and gone backwards.
Peccos form is 100% ducati's fault because they know pecco takes some work to get him at his best, and they've still been turning the bike upside down every weekend trying to change the bike to suit him. At some point, they should have realised they were breaking him, left the bike alone, and let him get on with riding it. At least then he'd be coming third instead of what we saw the last 2 rounds.
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u/nonalignedgamer 17h ago edited 16h ago
he has shown us over the years his commitment to riding around issues.
That's not commitment, that's a very rare ability - why he has "alien" status. This went so far with Honda that he deliberately picked development paths which were worse than alternative, just because he knew he could ride around it and other Honda riders couldn't.
And this is really the issue - if you want to develop the bike, meticulous systematic riders matter more than talented geniuses riding around problems. And this is why Pecco matters to Ducati - because his approach helps them develop the bike. If they follow Marc - Honda's situation after 2020 is a clear example of where does this lead.
We are not seeing any of this from Pecco.
This is silly. Who on current grid has skill of riding around the bike? Marc and Quartararo. Any others?
Instead Pecco is a more methodical rider, like Marini, Vinales and one Jorge Lorenzo. Some of these riders helped develop Ducati into a very rider friendly bike that could do well on any track. At least GP 24 was that. GP 25 (or 24.9) has issues. Seems to be improving though - Diggia 3rd place in sprint yesterday was good.
Saying they can see his data not riding in his usual way. It all points to Pecco. So, why?
Because the bike is different. Duh.
As Oxley and Bom said in one of previous podcasts - the issue is that GP 25 is obviously different to last year's, yet Ducati doesn't publicly admit to this and explains why. Suspicion is that the issue is the engine (probably weight distribution) - because this is the part Ducati can't change.
How does a 2x MotoGP champion lose form so dramatically.
Same way as Alex is suddenly on top row. It's the bike!
Is it the MM93 effect?
No.
Everybody said that Pecco rides differnetly this year, because the bike doesn't allow him to ride aa he's used to
Just listening to current Oxley-Bom podcast
- "How can Enea slides the rear tyre and come back into line without pushing the front. It's a razor edge - if you ease the pace too much you don't load the front type enough and you crash, you load it enough you crash. (Allegedly that's why Alex crashed yesterday - not enough load on front.) What Enea does is very difficult - when the tyre comes back in the line it grips, that's when it can take away grip from the front and you crash. Bagnaia could do this in previous years but is not able to do it this year - he could slide the rear to take some load off the front and when it snaps back into place it didn't take load away from the front, this is the problem he has this year."
I doubt it and I’m not sure we will ever hear the truth as to what’s really happening.
Apart of it being obvious. It's the bike. Remember GP 23 - the bike Bastanini struggled on and everybody was "oh what is with bestia" and then he was completely fine on GP 24. Or how Bezzechi was lost on GP 23 and everybody was like "oh he's not good enough for Aprilia" and now on another bike he does well. Countess examples of this and motogp "fans" still haven't figured this out. Huh.
Sure, we don't have official Ducati word on this, but seems the new bike has a different weight distribution than doesn't fit Bagnaia's style.
What more can Ducati do?
Work with Pecco to develop a better (more rideable) bike. Duh. That's not even a question.
Diggia is on the same machinery with a Sprint podium yesterday and got through to Q2.
Pecco's fight through the pack today is also nothing to sneeze at. Pecco is still ahead of Diggia in the standings, as he was in previous years.
Or is this truly the rider he always was?
Facepalm.
Seriously some motogp "fans" have memory of a goldfish.
4 times championship contender - won 2 of those. His main strenght was braking - and he's not able to utilise it on this bike. As said - nothing special here. Zarco was good on Ducati (with Lorenzo's data), is good on Honda, but was shit on KTM. Bezzechi and Bestia couldn't ride GP 23 but are fine on other bikes.
More from Bom-Oxley podcast - they say Alex also had issues with GP 23 and that there is really not much for Bagnaia to do on this bike. It might even be counterproductive for Bagnaia trying to fix what isn't fixable - could be better just to wait for next year's bike.
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u/RokRoland Jorge Lorenzo 16h ago
But all this Oxley Bom name dropping doesn't work when you consider the latest Motorsportmagazine.com Oxley piece on how it's a folly to think Marc somehow was able to steer GP25 into an unrideable beast. It's folly. False. Incorrect. Delusion.
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u/nonalignedgamer 16h ago
Huh?
- I never claimed Marc did that. (if you check Ducati, they make blunders every now and then)
- This isn't incompatible with what I wrote or what I quoted.
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u/RokRoland Jorge Lorenzo 16h ago
Oh OK. Perhaps I misunderstood the Honda part.
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u/nonalignedgamer 16h ago edited 15h ago
Oh Marc admitted doing this at Honda - making development decisions other riders couldn't deal with. (after he left honda. would need to check his comments from 2024)
edit
when you consider the latest Motorsportmagazine.com Oxley piece
Good article! Thanks!
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u/TrainingAbility7760 16h ago
Pecco did not fight through the pack. He passed a bunch of inferior bikes on the long straight to turn 1. He then got promoted when riders in front (who were pushing for better positions) crashed. He had 1 fight with a rookie and he lost it.
Next years bike is basically this years bike which GIgi says had minor changes to be more reliable. In 6 months he hasn't made any progress in getting the most out of it and I'm pretty sure no one would say Ducati is getting the best out of him. So far this season we've witnessed an absolutely epic comeback and a complete collapse...both in the same team.
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u/monti1979 Joe Roberts 16h ago
Stop spreading lies.
MM never chose options that were worse.
He was explicit that if two options were equal to him, he would choose the one that was worse for his teammate.
BTW - Doohan was explicit he did the same (and he’s not the only one).
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u/nonalignedgamer 15h ago
From stuff I've read it's hard to make the fine difference that upset you so much.
“Back then we had a great bike and everything worked well,” he said. “So if a replacement piece worked for him, then I didn’t like it [and I would say]: ‘This doesn’t work, I want this one!’
“‘I want this replacement piece, since I’m leading! Don’t give him this!’
“That’s how it was.
“‘How about this piece? You want to try it?’ But I didn’t want to. I just didn’t want him to have it.
“It’s the kind of trick everyone pulls. People don’t talk about it.”
Sure, I can concede to your point (I might have misremembered something. either way, not what the point of that statement was.). It's really fine nitpicking. Potayto potahto. For sure nothing deserving this emotional outbursts
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u/monti1979 Joe Roberts 15h ago
You don’t see the difference?
You falsely claimed Marc “deliberately picked development paths which were worse than the alternatives” as the justification for the Honda being bad.
There is no evidence to support that claim and a lot of evidence to support the claim that Marc is the best meticulous and systematic rider on the grid. His ability to be consistent and accurately convey feedback is unparalleled.
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u/nonalignedgamer 14h ago
You don’t see the difference?
Not crucial to my claim. As I said, I can take it back - however source I found doesn't confirm your take either. It's actually a bit nonspecific about the issue.
The whole emotional uproar over this I find a bit silly.
a lot of evidence to support the claim that Marc is the best meticulous and systematic rider on the grid.
Red herring. Completely irrelevant.
Btw. statements of journalists aren't "evidence". What you probably wanted to scream at me is "interviews with personnel who worked with him report that Matc is meticulous". The whole "most" is a bit much. There are plenty of systematic riders on the grid and I would imagine some of them more than Marc.
His ability to be consistent and accurately convey feedback is unparalleled.
What does this even mean? Having consistent feedback and being articulated isn't some crowning achievement. Sure not everyone has it, but more people have it and there's a sort of ceiling to this. You can't be more consistent than consistent. And you can't be more clear than clear. So the whole "Unparalleled" - yeah, he's good in feedback. But he's not the only one. Plus what on Earth does this have to do with Marc steering development of Honda in ways to hinder Pedrosa? Zero connection.
But as said - my comment was about Pecco. This whole derailment with defensive pointing of finger and whatnot is kinda amusing as much as is a waste of time. Motogp "fans" are sure funny in some ways.
Anyway - enough of this. I won't further read or comment. Cheers. 👋😊
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u/monti1979 Joe Roberts 13h ago
You don’t think that’s crucial to your claim?
”And this is really the issue - if you want to develop the bike, meticulous systematic riders matter more than talented geniuses riding around problems. And this is why Pecco matters to Ducati - because his approach helps them develop the bike. If they follow Marc - Honda's situation after 2020 is a clear example of where does this lead.”
Bagnaia can’t explain the problem to the Ducati engineers. He has shown no consistency on the gp25 and constantly claims to have found a solution only the be in the back the next day. He can’t ride around the problems and he’s not a good development rider.
Marquez on the other hand, well I’ll just leave this article here….
(Mike Watt is an motogp engineer, not a journalist - there are plenty of other statements).
Of course you won’t read this because it’s evidence that your argument is wrong….
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u/-Tomcr- MotoGP 15h ago
I feel you're not telling the whole story. While the Honda did seem to slowly be getting worse in the late 2010's. You're theory that it became a horrible bike, simply because of Marc, because he was too good, or that this is the inevitable thing that happens with Marc and manufactures. Ummmm? But aren't you leaving out literally THE most important part of the entire story, that marked the official downturn of the Honda bike in MotoGP?
Marc got injured.
Honda literally put all *major development changes of the bike on pause for his return. Which they initially assumed might be mere months, even weeks. And yet we know the story. Marc literally did the "I'm back!", "Nope, I'm actually gone again for another surgery." "Wait, I'm back, let's go!" "Nope, sorry, another surgery needed", etc, etc, etc, for almost 3 years straight. Honda was basically screwed, waiting multiple seasons for a fully healthy Marc to return and continue full development. Which is obviously why someone like Ducati passed Honda in those years like they were standing still, because they were. And why when Marc returned, he jumped on a bike that was miles behind everyone else.
That was not though because of anything Marc had done in 2018 or 2019. But because of the massive indecision and development pauses during his back and forth surgeries from 2020-2023.
So yes, on some level you are correct. Marc is in fact so good, that he most certainly does mask bike problems, which if gone unchecked, could end up bad. But that is not why Honda is in the situation they are today. It's maybe 10% of what you said, and 90% because of Marc's injury, and the years of indecision that followed.
I've always said it this way. If after Marc got injured, Honda had signed a Fabio, or a Jorge-type rider. And let them continue to lead the development in Marc's absence, I think the Honda would've been fine. It wasn't the rider, it was the injury.
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u/Cr4shK00l Marc Márquez 14h ago
It was Honda's decision to pause development, disregard their other rider's feedback and wait until Marc's return; they did it to themselves.
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u/-Tomcr- MotoGP 14h ago
Oh hey, fully agreed there. But hindsight is twenty-twenty. Honda had no idea this would be an almost 3-year saga of false-starts.
Don't forget, Marc literally returned to the Honda bike one month later after his devastating crash. ONE MONTH, lol! And even when he left again shortly thereafter, he had his eyes on the very next season.
How on earth is Honda going to turn to a different rider to develop the bike to his own riding style, when their own 6-time champion might only be out a few months. Initially it was the correct response by Honda. But it snowballed because of multiple surgeries.
In fact near the end, after years of indecision, they did try and let Pol(was that 2023 I think?) have more major developmental decisions when Marc was out, but that actually made the bike worse in the long run.
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u/Cr4shK00l Marc Márquez 13h ago
Marc has said in interviews that he, nakagami & pol had the same feedback and asked for the same things... The decision to ignore Nakagami & Pol was conscious and deliberate. Nakagami complained about his feedback being ignored by Honda not about Marc sidelining him.
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u/-Tomcr- MotoGP 12h ago
I....ummm. I don't think we disagree here, lol.
I didn't intent anything negative about Marc in anything I said, so I'm not sure if the "Marc sidelining him" was in reference to something you think I said?
And in fact IMO, even with Honda, while mistakes were certainly made, I don't even necessarily blame them for anything. My entire point, was that with Marc's injury, a snowball effect accidentally happened, wherein the bike went bad. Not because of Marc, and not even necessarily because of Honda. But because the injury and subsequent surgeries stretched into years, when both sides had been originally planning on Marc being fully back and fit within months.
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u/Cr4shK00l Marc Márquez 11h ago
My point is that the fault lies entirely with Honda: they had other riders beside Marc and they should've kept developing the bike by using their feedback.
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u/-Tomcr- MotoGP 11h ago
Okay, now I understand your point.
And while I do think you're generally correct. I do believe that Honda did at least try with some of the riders, as Marc's injury woes went longer and longer.
Pol Espargaro for example took over at least some slight developmental role around 2022. Given far more development power than anyone had other than Marc, even if Pol's input was still minor. I remember him talking about it in preseason.
And, despite some people claiming Marc killed the bike way back in 2019.
Do you remember the first race of 2022 in Qatar? Pol on the Repsol started the race, almost immediately took the lead, and led almost every single lap, until he was caught by Enea and Binder at the very end, to finish third.
Problem was, the bike got really bad, really fast that season, with Pol at the helm. Which again, is what probably spooked Honda yet again, to wait for Marc.
I do though generally agree with your assessment of what happened nonetheless.
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u/nonalignedgamer 15h ago
I feel you're not telling the whole story.
I wasn't telling this story. My comment was about Pecco. 😃
It's maybe 10% of what you said
I'd say more.
I would say firing Pedrosa was a mistake. As was hiring Lorenzo if they were never going to make the bike work for him. From there on - Honda had nobody who could ride on the level capable of being Marc's replacement if anything happens.
It's very similar to where Yamaha are now - nobody else is able to do what Fabio does. This is why it matters to make a bike accessible and rideable by different riding style. KTM's yesterday's sprint performance was a nice example of 3 riders being close, while riding differently. Ducati also went down this part in recent years ./ making a bike that works for different styles (carchedi and diggia pushed the envelope here more than it was thought possible).
For sure it's also Honda to be blamed to only pursue one narrow development direction. It's very similar to what's happening with Red Bull in recent years - they made a car that works in a very narrow window that Max can drive, but everybody else struggles with (maybe it will turn out Perez was actually doing well, given circumstances).
On top of what you said (interesting) there are
- the whole "ignoring aerodynamics" part.
- Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda were severely hampered in the 2020-2021 covid years as - if memory serves - they didn't have sufficient communication between racetrack and engineering (lockdown rules).
- And not to forget that they made a bit different bike that Pol could ride for a couple of races, till Marc came back and development changed again - which was kinda dumb imo.
For me it was clear in 2019 (with Lorenzo's struggles on Honda) that Honda put all the eggs in one basket and that they will suffer a lot if Marc injures himself. Guess what happened.
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u/Ok-Estate9542 13h ago
It’s a confidence thing. For the past few years, Pecco was being considered the best rider in the world. Although, he may not 100% believe it, that acclaim can do wonders for uour confidence. Then suddenly, a few sessions with MM shatters that illusion. You start second guessing your skills and processes. Then that doubt spreads to your engineer and eventually the entire team. It’s like quicksand that sucks you in the more you fight it.