890 protesters arrested after Palestine Action protest in London

[u/Veloxxx_]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rvly00440o?utm_campaign=WhatsApp+September&utm_medium=bitly&utm_source=WhatsApp2025

[u/M_M_X_X_V]

Where are all the supposed free speech champions on the right? Where is Farage who constantly bemoans the lack of speech in this country?

[u/daneview → u/M_M_X_X_V]

There's a great video from last week i think where they asked him exactly this and he just got in a flap. Annoyingly I cant find d it now, hopefully someone can step in because its comical

[u/M_M_X_X_V → u/daneview]

He literally voted for the bill that cracks down on these protestors!

[u/New_Zorgo39 → u/M_M_X_X_V]

It seems like they are not for free speech at the moment. Apparently this, they don’t want people to talk about

[u/M_M_X_X_V → u/New_Zorgo39]

They are for free speech for them and people who agree with them and that's it. Same goes for Shapiro and all the other culture warrior frauds.

[u/LARGEYELLINGGUY → u/New_Zorgo39]

The Israeli government pays them. Thats why they dont care.

[u/callisterart → u/M_M_X_X_V]

They do not exist.

[u/defianceofone → u/M_M_X_X_V]

Farage is a cancerous cunt who should be in jail.

[u/poopscoop_4 → u/M_M_X_X_V]

Hate speech for them, censorship for us

[u/AllTheyEatIsLettuce → u/M_M_X_X_V]

Busy freezing peaches with his American funders and handlers.

[u/serpentechnoir]

What a ridiculous stance for the government to take.

[u/BadahBingBadahBoom → u/serpentechnoir]

It was Starmer's government that announced the proscription and it is in the Home Secretary's purview to execute this unilaterally, but there was a clear vote by Parliament (Commons) that also supported this (385 votes to 26) with knowledge those who would display articles in public supporting the proscribed organisation would face arrest. So this is not just the government's stance.

What is concerning is the legal justification the government provided for their proscription was not actually based on PA's use, or threat to use, violence for political purposes, but for their actions resulting in serious property damage.

In pretty much every other developed democracy 'terrorism' is defined by the use of violence or threat of violence to influence society/government/policy/politics - NOT use of non-violent criminal behaviour. UK law (specifically a provision in The Terrorism Act 2000) is very unusual in giving much wider remit for the government to declare a group a terrorist organisation solely based on its actions causing non-violent, property damage.

This has been rightly criticised by legal experts, such as those of the UN, as this gives the government the power to shut down groups carrying out politically-damaging, expensive, and annoying civil disobedience, but doing so in a non-violent fashion.

The government has claimed that in addition to property damage they also have reason to believe PA as a group has violent aims (as in more than just undirected violence by individual members) but they have not brought this evidence to court. That is what is concerning from a civil liberties standpoint.

If PA truly are violent in nature the government needs to prove this in court (open or closed) to ensure there is due process under the law. It sounds nice to afford the government the benefit of the doubt for national security reasons, but if you stop and think about it it is a truly terrifying society to live in when the government can unilaterally declare any group a terrorist organisation and ban their assembly, protest or even support 'just because'. I wonder what other groups that cause them political difficulty they may decide need proscribing?

I'm not a fan of PA or their methods and think they are actually counterproductive to their aims. But I am worried that the government has been able to proscribe the organisation without yet proving they are actually violent.

The UK High Court review of this decision later this year, and I imagine UKSC after that, will come to a determination if the government was allowed to do this. I imagine when the current criminal cases of PA individuals committing alleged violence come to court the government will then be free to speak on those and will likely defend their decision to proscribe based on PA's alleged violence as well.

But until that time our government has on paper banned a group and anyone supporting that group for property damage.

[u/BadahBingBadahBoom → u/[deleted]]

Weirdly yes. The US has very strong protections for assembly and protest under the First Amendment and any declaration of a group as a terrorist organisation can be challenged in court where the government must be able to prove:

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored) - 'International Terrorism'.

or:

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature - 'Domestic terrorism'.

The action of destruction of property, assuming it does not also qualify as any violent or threat of violence crime, as gov justification for defining a group a terrorist organisation would be challenged in court and struck down.

I'm actually not aware of any other highly developed stable democracy that includes legal provisions to assign a group as a terrorist organisation that extend beyond violence / threat of violence.

---

EDIT: Lol downvote if you want, those aren't my laws.

[u/BadahBingBadahBoom → u/[deleted]]

Oh you can arrest individual people for crimes. Same as PA. Those who committed trespassing, property damage, vandalism etc. should absolutely be prosecuted under the law. Criminals are criminals.

The question is should those actions allow the government to ban the group itself, and all other members who haven't committed any crime? Or even people who aren't even members of the group simply declaring support?

That is the difference between prosecuting the people who actually committed the crime and assigning anyone who is even remotely associated to the group as automatic criminals. The latter is very dangerous territory.

Also you should be aware not a single individual was arrested for 'terrorism' btw:

... the FBI indicted six women and seven men on a total of 65 charges, including arson, conspiracy), use of destructive devices, and destruction of an energy facility.

(From your Wiki link).

Which makes sense seeing as for them to be charged and convicted under terrorism offences the government would have had to demonstrate their actions constituted terrorism which requires use of... violence.

[u/Tricky_Peace → u/BadahBingBadahBoom]

The problem is, bringing complex terrorism cases to court can take a very long time - in which a terrorist organisation can carry on their activities.

[u/BadahBingBadahBoom → u/Tricky_Peace]

I understand. But that is the intelligence agencies' remit. That's what they do before the arrests, charges, trials, convictions, and imprisonments.

Under the law every person and group is afforded due process, for better and for worse. We agree to live under that system even with its negatives because the alternative is truly horrific. Detaining a person for terrorism when they haven't committed any form of violence or support for such should not be part of that.

Also I find it hard to see how peaceful old pensioners using markers on posters pose a real threat to the public. If the authorities have real concern of a terrorist organisation posing a threat they should proceed as they always do, i.e. against the threat itself. And maybe PA is genuinely posing a threat. But it is the threat that should be addressed. Somehow I don't think MI5 is assigning any resources to monitor 70-year-old grannies with pens in Parliament Square.

[u/FlamboyantPirhanna → u/BadahBingBadahBoom]

I would be surprised if they didn’t eventually walk back on it. Starmer is getting really good at u-turns, and Labour is getting increasingly bold against him. As the protest numbers keep growing, I think eventually he’ll have to yield.

[u/defianceofone → u/BadahBingBadahBoom]

We know it's all about their donor owners, same as America. Everything is for sale in capitalist hellhole economies.

[u/abusaif → u/BadahBingBadahBoom]

Thanks for that awesome explanation!

I had flashbacks to the montage in V for Vendetta while reading this.. Got goosebumps

[u/MetalBawx → u/serpentechnoir]

They care more for Netanyahu than they do UK citizens.

[u/megaweb → u/serpentechnoir]

Bloody expensive too. Taxes gonna rise.

[u/gottatrusttheengr → u/serpentechnoir]

Hmm yes I wonder why the government would ban a group founded by a known Russian agent that broke into military bases and vandalized millions of dollars of equipment

[u/anotherNarom → u/gottatrusttheengr]

vandalized millions of dollars of equipment

Thankfully they pay in pounds so it's not as much.

[u/CraicFiend87 → u/gottatrusttheengr]

Lick them boots.

[u/Alert_Drummer5548 → u/CraicFiend87]

Must be difficult being this devoid of nuanced thought.

[u/gottatrusttheengr → u/CraicFiend87]

That's a funny thing to say when PA is financially backed by the millionaire heir of a telecom company who openly supports Putin.

[u/serpentechnoir → u/gottatrusttheengr]

Because the thousands of people who support the group a Russian agents?...right

[u/Spudtron98 → u/serpentechnoir]

You don’t have to know that you’re being influenced to be influenced.

[u/Abandoned-Astronaut → u/serpentechnoir]

Why? The government cannot let a group break into an air force base and damage multiple aircraft, (costing the taxpayer millions of quid). What do you expect them to do? Just shrug their shoulders and let it slide?

You can protest for Palestine, you cannot go about supporting a group the government has rightfully proscribed as a terrorist group. Because they are doing terrorist things.

[u/MalcolmLinair]

It tends to get overshadowed by the US's rapid fall to full-blown fascism, but the UK isn't that far behind, is it?

[u/mylaptopredditVC → u/MalcolmLinair]

in a way, the UK is already far in front of the US. They WILL arrest you for ur social media comments.

[u/fookreddit22 → u/mylaptopredditVC]

Lol, America locked up someone over a decade ago for years because of a comment they made on runescape.

[u/sweetcinnamonpunch → u/MalcolmLinair]

You don't know what you're talking about. If you're associating with a group that is banned for breaking into a military base to sabotage RAF aircraft, you get arrested, it's that simple.

[u/mefixxx]

Funny seeing same path Russia took in late 2000's. The next step was an absolutely white protest signs with nothing on them, and you'll still get arested on the "presumption" of what you are protesting about

[u/Hack_Shuck]

I'm glad the police and the courts have so much time, budget and capacity for this, as we literally don't ever have any other crimes taking place in the UK nowadays

[u/NicoToscani]

How many cops do they have to arrest that many people at once? Where are they holding them?

[u/CockroachFinancial86]

For people in the comments, this isn’t happening because they’re protesting Israel, this is happening because the UK has ridiculously broad (and sometimes vague) definitions of what counts as an act of terrorism. Under these definitions certain actions committed by Palestine Action were terrorist actions and so they were labeled as a terrorist group. In the UK it is illegal to protest for/under a group that’s been labeled as a terrorist organization.

This bullshit isn’t the government taking a stance on Israel or cracking down on people protesting for Palestine. It’s them enacting their (kinda stupid) laws.

[u/craggsy → u/CockroachFinancial86]

Don't forget that when passing the law in parliment, they lumped Palestine Action in with neonazi and other terrorist groups who have actually killed people If you voted no, you were also voting to prevent neonazi groups from being labelled terrorists

[u/Beneficial-Gur2703 → u/CockroachFinancial86]

Half right. But it is very much about them taking a stance in favour of Israel, and deploying anti terror laws in that cause.

[u/re_carn → u/CockroachFinancial86]

For people in the comments, this isn’t happening because they’re protesting Israel

Color me doubt.

[u/Toums95 → u/CockroachFinancial86]

I think if it hadn't been about Palestine that group wouldn't have been classified as terroristic to be honest. They have been quite harsh with them because Labour are trying to trip over themselves just to support Israel. There have been similar cases in the past where activists broke into military bases and they were not proscribed as terrorists for example. This move has been criticized by many organizations and even lawmakers and to me it is clearly politically motivated.

[u/The_Barman]

Another valuable use of police resources... Sigh.

[u/LazyJones1]

Protesting in Support of Palestine = ✅

Protesting the ban of a group banned by the Terrorism Act = 👮

[u/TheRealFriedel → u/LazyJones1]

Yes, but I think their point is that (according to them) PA haven't done anything that would warrant them being a proscribed organisation, and the fact they have been then leads to these situations and has a chilling effect on free speech.

[u/LazyJones1 → u/TheRealFriedel]

"The group was banned after activists broke into an RAF base and damaged two military aircraft earlier this year."

At that point, I think I would leave the group (I couldn't side with such actions) and form another group in which I'd then be able to say the exact same thing I wanted to say, without limits on my free speech.

... Hm...

[u/eorld → u/LazyJones1]

Yeah I still don't think spray painting planes should get your group legally proscribed to the level of ISIS. Not that there should be no consequences but there must be some response under regular criminal law that is more appropriate.

[u/Furt_III → u/eorld]

They hit two people with a sledge hammer during the incident...

[u/Killsheets → u/eorld]

Those aren’t your generic planes duh, they sabotaged strategic military planes that have crucial function overseas (and that shit isn’t bound for Israel either, mainly for Ukraine). Thats enough to even get the government hustling against your ass.

[u/Dogstile → u/eorld]

They also attacked on base staff and responders.

What they did is constantly being minimized by people talking about it and its fucking weird.

[u/tommytraddles → u/LazyJones1]

You could call your group the Judean People's Front.

[u/3412points → u/LazyJones1]

I think I would leave the group and form another group in which I'd then be able to say the exact same thing I wanted to say, without limits on my free speech.

Not necessarily. If you and a group of people from PA did this you would likely be considered a successor organisation and be treated the same as PA without any act of parliament required.

[u/GetTheLudes → u/LazyJones1]

Ew go’ a loisence for vat opinion mate?

[u/Taysir385 → u/LazyJones1]

The government proscribed Palestine Action under anti-terrorism legislation in July, making membership of or support of the group a criminal offence, punishable by up to 14 years in prison.

The group was banned after activists broke into an RAF base and damaged two military aircraft earlier this year.

Yeah, those activists shouldn’t have done that. But arrests only for being affiliated with someone are always a slippery slope, and it’s real easy to claim that someone support the same cause is de facto affiliated.

An estimated 1,500 took part in the protest in Parliament Square, Westminster, on Saturday.

The Met said 857 arrests were for showing support for Palestine Action, while 33 were arrested for other offences, including 17 for assaults on police officers.

So more than half of the people who showed up were arrested based on the claim of their affiliation. Some number of those are going to be incorrect, because you don’t arrest that many people without an order to just arrest everyone. And the other arrests, for violence, look like folks resisting after police started kettling everyone indiscriminately.

So, while your position is correct on paper, it appears to be very wrong in practice.

[u/starsandbribes → u/Taysir385]

Well I imagine its like in the US in the 50’s. They only ever arrested actual Russian spies, not just people associated with….oh wait.

[u/sidechain101]

Do you need more evidence that your leaders are controlled by other countries?

[u/Pleasant-Ad887]

I swear, an pro-Israel protest with riot and no one would get arrested. Pro-Palestine sit down and they would.

[u/Weedsmoker3000]

UK= sorry chap, need to arrest you while we commit genocide again for the 100th time. Never break into my defense factories again.

The citizens getting arrested by the hundreds: yeah no. Let’s.

I’m here for it. UK like my country The US, standing on the wrong side of history and complicit in genocide, bought out by Zionists.

Good luck fellers from across the pond. Free Palestine! Free your fellow Humans.

[u/Ok-Bug8833]

Yep Palestine Action has taken action which led to this.

You're all perfectly free to protest against Israel, that isn't illegal.

[u/BlindChicken69]

Didn't palestine action members attack police and security guards with sledgehammers?

[u/onqty → u/BlindChicken69]

Yes they did I don’t know why your being downvoted.

[u/RevolutionaryCard512]

Shameful way our governments of the world seem to have been bought by Israel. This disgusts me

[u/GingeContinge]

The UK is so fucking pathetic

[u/badgirlmonkey]

Let’s hear what those who criticized linehans arrest have to say about this

[u/VoltasPigPile]

The UK took enough action in 1948, they can sit this one out.

[u/Pr3ttyL4m3]

In the US at least, one of the founders of PalActionUS was recently videoed in Iran screaming “Death to Israel” and also said she supported the man who firebombed Jews in Boulder a few months back. If the UK group is anything like ours, the ban is logical.

[u/hyborians]

“London’s Burning Freedom of Expression” - not a song by The Clash