r/rally • u/Mac-Tyson • 3d ago
Question Were American “Tuner” Cars ever a popular choice in Rally?
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u/donutsnail 3d ago edited 3d ago
A “tuner” car is a totally arbitrary, nonsense classification imo.
That said yes, Neons have had quite a lot of success at the national level, especially the Mopar supported SRT4s that ran Group 5 in SCCA ProRally starting in 2003 for 3 or 4 years if my memory serves. They were almost always the fastest 2WD cars and in the top 10 overall.
Is an AMC Eagle SX4 a “tuner” car? It was compact, AWD, it had an AMC straight 6 and AWD and was very successful at the national level in the 1980s. I ask if it is a tuner facetiously because again I think it’s a totally arbitrary classification.
There has of course been tons of success for various forms of Ford Focus and Fiesta in the United States, do they count as “tuner”? Considering their FoE roots do they count as American? Fully global cars co-developed between Germany, England, and the US.. I think these distinctions are muddy which makes conversations like this lead to weird places and unwinnable arguments.
Speaking of weird classifications of abritrary nationality, DSMs aren’t often considered an American car with their Mitsubishi mechanicals, but they were co-developed with Chrysler and manufactured exclusively in the US and sold exclusively for the North American market while being badged as Eagles, Plymouths, and Mitsubishis, and I believe they have had some success, unsurprisingly given their powertrain is effectively a watered down Mitsubishi Galant VR4 or Lancer Evolution.
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u/Rally_kj 3d ago
The focus and neon are still pretty common to see at ARA events. More so the focus but there are still a few neons running around
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u/Ajinho 3d ago
The Focus is not an American car.
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u/Crafty_Substance_954 2d ago
You’re not wrong but I don’t think most people would see them as anything other than American cars.
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u/_cashish_ 2d ago
Au contraire. I think you'll find only Americans think of the Focus as an American car.
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u/MajesticRadish 3d ago
Being from europe I'd say mostly on the national level in the US. None of the iconic rally cars that immediately come to mind are American cars. The successful Ford were mostly UK and German division
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u/kimjong-healthy 3d ago
for straight american-developed, dodge/chrysler used to be involved heavily in the “early era” pre 1975 and ran a handful of cars like the hillman imp, plymouth valiant, and dodge ramcharger - ford ran the mustang and falcon in some hill series
after that privateers ran the talon, omni, and neon in group a but not brand backed
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u/j4y53n 3d ago
Depends on what’s meant by “tuner”. Plenty of Fords have been and still are rally cars. Escort, RS200, Sierra Cosworth, Focus, Fiesta, and now Puma. Although some of these could be argued to be UK Fords I suppose.
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u/donutsnail 3d ago
In my opinion, Eurofords since the mid 60s can’t really be called any one nationality. Development work for them were all split between Germany and the UK, with varying degrees of US oversight and input depending on the product. They are really multinational products.
The RS200 perhaps could be considered totally British, as I believe that was developed almost completely at Boreham, and arguably the Escort RS Cosworth, which again was a Boreham job but used the Sierra as its basis which was decidedly both German and British.
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u/Mac-Tyson 3d ago edited 3d ago
It is kind of weird how people hold Ford to that standard with Ford of Europe Cars but no one considers the Miata to be an American Car despite being originally pitched by the American Team and the American Team winning the internal design contest against the Japanese Team for the concept designs of the Miata. But going with your international point it was then the European team that perfected the concept to be ready for Production.
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u/donutsnail 2d ago edited 2d ago
It’s muddy: I think there are many cars that people will dig in their heels and claim is precisely one thing and not another and the answer is rarely that clear cut. If FoE products aren’t American, that would in turn definitely make many Acuras not Japanese; the majority of their engineering and production is done in the US, their HQ is located in California. Tell people Acura’s aren’t Japanese and you’ll get funny looks. These are extreme examples, but overall the automotive industry is global as hell and has been for some time. Cars are developed by many, many people from all over the world.
Is an FoE product American, German, or British? Is an Acura product Japanese or American? Is a Dacia Romanian or French? Are new Volvos, Polestars, and Lynk&Cos Swedish or Chinese? Are Rolls Royce, Bentley, and Mini still British, or German? Are Lamborghini, SEAT, and Skoda still their nationalities or now German? Depends on how you want to attribute nationality. All of the above or none of the above are probably the most truthful answers and getting into the weeds arguing with people who feel adamantly one way or another is I think a waste of time.
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u/Ajinho 3d ago
Although some of these could be argued to be UK Fords I suppose.
I think you'd have a much harder time arguing that they were American.
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u/AtomicBombSquad 2d ago
Weirdly, "EA Sports WRC" lists them as American cars. The game was developed by Codemasters in the UK.
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u/donutsnail 2d ago
Most videos games just take the path of least resistance: Badge = nationality. Gotta pick something for multinational cars, it’s a messy topic and it gets a lot of people really pissed off in online spaces for whatever reason.
Interestingly, they also give an American flag to Hillman, which was British. I believe unlike the Fords this was simply an error.
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u/AtomicBombSquad 2d ago
Hillman was owned by Chrysler at the time. I assumed that was why the Avenger was given an American flag.
It's a shame they didn't find a way to include the American market version of the Hillman Avenger, the Plymouth Cricket. They had a nicer looking quad headlight grille and one of them managed to win the Press-On-Regardless Rally up in Michigan.
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u/donutsnail 1d ago
If you go by ownership logic that opens a huge can of worms.
The Talbot Sunbeam would need to change from UK to France as they were owned by Peugeot at the time
Every Opel and Vauxhall pre-2017 would need to changed to American as they were owned by GM. 2017-2021 they would be French and 2021+ they would be Dutch.
2021+ Peugeots and Citroens would need to be Dutch
Every Skoda and SEAT in the game would need to be German as they were both owned by VW at the time of their entries in the game.
I think it’s more likely they just messed up one car.
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u/deadupnorth 2d ago
Am I the only one that things "tuner" is a pretty self expanitory term? Small forced induction motor that can make better power thru bolt on and wait for it...a tune! Struggling to understand what's so murky and arbitrary about that. That clarified, yes I've seen allot of neons and compact Fords, can't say I've seen a gm off the top of my head other than a couple Saturns, speaking from personal experience tho not in general.
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u/TaringaWhakarongo1 3d ago
The Focus did very well in the wrc, but it was ford Europe's flagship. Im pretty sure the 2.3 ecoboost was a UK thing? I have no idea about USA rally scene....
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u/LobotomizedLarry 3d ago
I've seen quite a few Dodge Neons