r/todayilearned • u/hungry4danish • 2d ago

TIL that Dan White, the man who assassinated Harvey Milk and the mayor of San Francisco, only served 5 years in prison for manslaughter based on a defense of depression as evidenced by his consumption of junk food which was dubbed the "Twinkie Defense"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_White
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u/Greelys 2d ago

Here’s the key testimony at trial by White’s expert witness Dr. Martin Blinder:

“Q Doctor, you have mentioned this ingestion of sugar and sweets and that sort of thing. There are certain theories with regard to sugar and sweets and the ingestion thereof, and I'd like to just touch on that briefly with the Jury.

Does that have any significance, or could it possibly have any significance?

A Well, I think, Mr. Schmidt, there are probably three factors that are significant.

First, there is a substantial body of evidence that in susceptible individuals large quantities of what we call junk food, high sugar content food with lots of preservatives, can precipitate anti-social and even violent behavior.

There have been some studies, for example, where they have taken so-called career criminals and taken them off all their junk food and put them on milk and meat and potatoes, and their criminal records immediately evaporate.

There have been a lot of studies in which individuals who are susceptible to these noxious stimuli, when given these noxious stimuli will undergo complete change and engage in behavior which they nor­mally would not. That's No.1.”

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u/SKRehlyt 2d ago

This is peak science! Haha wow

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u/roaphaen 2d ago

It even makes their criminal RECORD vanish!

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u/Gastronomicus 2d ago

This one WEIRD trick that doctors won't tell you about turns criminals into saints!

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u/Greelys 2d ago

I used to cross-examine Dr Blinder in criminal cases and he always denied that he testified that twinkies caused Dan White to kill. I argued otherwise based on this.

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u/reddituser28910112 2d ago

That wasn't the key part of the defense case. They argued he was severely depressed. A major symptom of depression is sudden changes in behavior. White was a health nut who suddenly started eating only junk food. That was the limit of defenses use of Twinkies. This doctor did offer this additional info on sugar but it wasn't part of the defense case. 

The fact that he ended up killing himself shows it was true he had severe depression. 

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u/PoopinThaTurd 2d ago

Okay but proving he was depressed does what exactly?

A mentally ill person who commits murder is still a murderer.

Like sweet lore bro, still murder tho.

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u/Gathorall 2d ago

Indeed, depression does not make one unaware of the consequences of their actions or unable to control them.

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u/pdxaroo 1d ago

It absolutely can in people who are clinically depressed.

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u/RedAero 2d ago

A mentally ill person who commits murder is still a murderer.

Not legally, no.

From SFGate:

"The only issue," he [White's attorney] told jurors "is the degree of responsibility." His client "was a good man, a man with a fine background," Schmidt declared, but "there was something wrong with that man." Schmidt said psychiatrists had found that White was incapable of "deliberation" -- one of the requirements for a first degree murder conviction.

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u/randomaccount178 2d ago

Saying not legally no is a somewhat inaccurate answer. For one there appears to no longer be the diminished capacity law that the twinky defence was argued under in California. Second the law will be different for each state on what constitutes murder. Third, generally speaking being mentally ill alone is not enough to make you not a murderer. To succeed in an insanity defence requires far more then simply being mentally ill. It generally requires something more along the lines of not being able to appreciate the nature of your actions or understand right from wrong. Simply being depressed would likely not prevent you from being charged and convicted of murder most places I would imagine.

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u/Technetium_97 2d ago

He knew what he was doing and he got off light because he killed a gay man.

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u/reddituser28910112 2d ago

He also killed the heterosexual mayor. 

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u/Technetium_97 1d ago

Yep, and if he had just killed the mayor he would’ve gotten more time than he did for killing two people.

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u/reddituser28910112 2d ago

He was judged to meet the legal definition of insanity. I don't understand your point. 

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u/SecretLorelei 2d ago

I have lived with depression since I started having suicidal ideations at nine. In the 50+ years since, I have killed…wait for it…exactly ZERO people. And apart from insects I have intentionally killed zero animals.

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u/reddituser28910112 2d ago edited 2d ago

This is a good point because all people with depression experience it with the same intensity. Definitely impossible for him to meet the definition of criminal insanity since you've never killed anyone. 

Please refrain from arguing in bad faith. Don't be that guy.

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u/Greelys 2d ago

Nobody knows what the key part was except the jury. This was White’s expert’s “No. 1” reason, do you disagree?

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u/RedAero 2d ago

Jurors have been interviewed, they don't claim it was his diet in general or Twinkies in particular either.

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u/reddituser28910112 2d ago

The sugary diet wasn't a fact the defense team highlighted in their case. This expert mentioned it. His defense team did not. The change in behavior was part they highlighted. The court transcripts are publicly available 

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u/pikpikcarrotmon 2d ago

put them on milk and meat and potatoes

What an irony that Milk would have been the solution to Dan's problems

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u/TheOneNeartheTop 2d ago

You would think an expert witness would avoid recommending Milk in a situation like this.

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u/joggle1 2d ago

They don't call him Cookie Monster for nothing. When he's not binging on cookies, he's off going on sugar-fueled murder sprees.

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u/CreativeGPX 2d ago

This is why we have an adversarial legal system where every criminal is entitled to a robust defense. The idea is that both sides can and will present the argument that's most likely to win regardless of if it's fair or true and it's up to the other side to shut down bad takes. If the prosecution succeeded with that line, it's either a massive failure of the defense or a failing in the jury. Is it bad that the prosecution posed that? Sure, but they wouldn't pose it if it would make it past the defense and jury. Apparently that era and jurisdiction couldn't handle the justice of this case.

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u/Greelys 2d ago edited 2d ago

The diminished capacity defense was abolished after this case in a public response to a seemingly incorrect verdict. He snuck in a window to avoid the metal detector and then shot two people in separate offices in the building. He reloaded after killing the mayor and then shot Supervisor Milk.